Individual Stats - The Discussion

[chopper99]

Bump

(Just 'cos I thought it was an interesting discussion that has now been abandoned)

[pele10]

what about min attribute for the league your in

example prem 16-20

champ ?

one ?

two ?

con?

n/s

[LSS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Kicking: - Fairly simple this one, Its how far the can kick the ball. How accurate the ball is, is down to passing and technique attributes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Goalkeepers don't have passing and technique attributes.

[LSS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Composure: - How calm a player can stay when in a tense situation. It affect both defensive and attacking minded players. Strikers to keep cool while trying to score that all important goal, defenders while trying to take the ball of a skillful atacker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it affects both attackers and defenders, then why can it only be trained with shooting training?

[LSS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Natural Fitness: - Its about how fast he recoveres from injuries or little knocks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And how well the player tolerates the degrading effect of aging.

[LSS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deadlydevices:

I know that last year (FM07), height and weight had NO effect whatsoever on the pitch, is this still true? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kind of. The height and weight 'attributes' don't directly have an effect, but they *should* be taken into account when researchers decide the jumping attributes etc.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Unless this was changed without me knowing, that means that 20 jumping on ANYONE will be the best jumper - no matter the height. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct, but as I stated above the height is taken into account when the jumping attribute is decided. The jumping attribute effectively combines the players height and jumping power into one attribute.

For example, if you have a player of 5'11" and jumping 20 then he's got some powerful legs under him to take him so high. On the other hand a player of 6'4" with jumping 20 doesn't get his feet as high from the ground but his head is at the same height as the 5'11" guy's head when going for the ball.

[LSS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Off the ball How well the player positions himself. When the team is attacking and he does not have the ball. IMO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe when the team has the ball, positioning takes over.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't agree, as most of the strikers and AMs in the game have low positioning, but high off the ball. It wouldn't make sense.

I think that positioning is strictly for defending and off the ball for attacking.

[Cleon]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LSS:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Kicking: - Fairly simple this one, Its how far the can kick the ball. How accurate the ball is, is down to passing and technique attributes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Goalkeepers don't have passing and technique attributes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I dont know why I added that bit myself

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> If it affects both attackers and defenders, then why can it only be trained with shooting training? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it had to be added somewhere, its just happens it fell under the attacking catergory. As I didnt code the game, I dont know why SI did this. All I know is it effects both defence and attack.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And how well the player tolerates the degrading effect of aging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes.

Why the need for all the seperate posts though? Can you just make it 1 longer one in future please.

[Joor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LSS:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Composure: - How calm a player can stay when in a tense situation. It affect both defensive and attacking minded players. Strikers to keep cool while trying to score that all important goal, defenders while trying to take the ball of a skillful atacker. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it affects both attackers and defenders, then why can it only be trained with shooting training? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Training central defenders in finishing and longshoot is "free" - its only composure that takes up ability points.

[Joor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LSS:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Kicking: - Fairly simple this one, Its how far the can kick the ball. How accurate the ball is, is down to passing and technique attributes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Goalkeepers don't have passing and technique attributes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They do - you just cant see their value . Use FMM or the scout program..

[Joor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LSS:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Off the ball How well the player positions himself. When the team is attacking and he does not have the ball. IMO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe when the team has the ball, positioning takes over.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't agree, as most of the strikers and AMs in the game have low positioning, but high off the ball. It wouldn't make sense.

I think that positioning is strictly for defending and off the ball for attacking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A player positioning attribute has no effect when your team attack. Its how well he position himself when your team defend.

[LSS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

Why the need for all the seperate posts though? Can you just make it 1 longer one in future please. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, so about that.

I answered the issues as they came.

[LSS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LSS:

Yeah, so about that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

so = sorry

[Mat_K]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Cleon:

What are the important attributes for each position

Centre backs - Vital Skills

Positioning, jumping, tackling, marking, aggression, strength, bravery and heading

Other Skills

Stamina, anticipation, determination, pace and acceleration

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Does a centre back really need tackling?

When I look at the matchstats my centre backs don't make all that many tackles. Most of the play they break up comes from interceptions.

I'm wondering if positioning, strength, anticipation and mayb jumping/heading are the most important attributes here.

[LSS]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mat_K:

Does a centre back really need tackling?

When I look at the matchstats my centre backs don't make all that many tackles. Most of the play they break up comes from interceptions.

I'm wondering if positioning, strength, anticipation and mayb jumping/heading are the most important attributes here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I guess it depends on your tactics. Playing pushed up d-line might result in more tackles as the opposition strikers try to break away.

[kolobok]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Does a centre back really need tackling?

When I look at the matchstats my centre backs don't make all that many tackles. Most of the play they break up comes from interceptions.

I'm wondering if positioning, strength, anticipation and mayb jumping/heading are the most important attributes here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It depends on a lot of things - your tactic, your midfield players, etc. as well as how other teams play against you. From my experience - DCs should have it anyway. I use to have a team full of DCs with high positioning, jumping etc. stats, but tackling around 13 - that did not do any good for me.

[Steve Holt]

^ Centre-halves mightn't make a smany tackles as a DM or FBs, but the tackles they do make will be more 'crucial' if you will.

Sorry for bumping this old thread. I was linked here from the 'BIBLE', which I might add has been brilliant to me over the years, cheers for it. This will likely be a long post, so bare with me.

Note too that I'm referring solely to FM07 here, but I doubt the stats have really changed a lot into 08, although I do believe anticipation is know much more important for winning headers as I experienced with Helgusson at Bolton who had crap anticipation and won about half of his headers despite having a better jump that opposition defenders, as opposed to Steve Howard who I replaced him with, he ha high anticipation and wins everything, and is pretty much the best targetman in the game (haha).

Now firstly, composure. It's already been discussed extensively in this thread, but I've heard all the theories. For years I've always seen it a a good stat to have in teams which play possession football, particularly for players in the centre of the pitch where space is confined, such as MCs, FCs, STs, and most importantly AMCs. Pretty much just the ability to thrive in heavy traffic, hence why someone like Cesc Fabregas, Gilberto, Alonso and Iniesta had 20 for it and wide players often didn't have it very high. I thought nothing of it that is was in shooting training. After all, why is work rate in strength or passing have its very own training? I only realised there was more to composure since I read on the hints scrolling thing that it effected one-on-ones, which answered a lot of questions for me, and allowed me to giving my strikers GK training (For the stat one-on-ones, I had to swallow a lot of pride to mention that). But if that's so, then why are there so many class strikers, who in reality are very adept at 1-on-1s, the like of Eto'o and Raul Tamudo who have such poor composure? I also respect it's defensive benefits too which are evident in the match engine (but I find it's MUCH more useful for strikers than defenders), then why does Mr. Overrated himself, Jamie Carragher have 18 for composure. He's considered a 'no-nonsense' defender even for English standards, he should have no more than 5 for it. He epitomises the notion 'when in doubt, boot the ball', and because he's so *****, he's always in doubt. Well I've gone on a bit now. I've aso heard it affects things like penalties (which I'd agree with), longshots (I'm unsure but Cesc does score a lot of them despite not having a good LS stat, but I think Technique plays a part here), freekicks (which I'm certain about), ability as playmaker or Targetman, and now I see someone's suggested it's imperative for keepers. Unbelievable. Is it some sort of super attribute? Can someone please clarify every affect compoure has, because as it stands, I want everyone in my teams to have it. Wingbacks or pressing wingers (ML/MR) are the only positions I can see not needing it if all those elements are true.

Also, teamwork. I believe that this is mostly for defensive purposes and creativity is it's attacking equivalent. It's important for holding a good defensive line, particularly for the offside trap. I also see it as a measure of tactical discipline, hence how midfielders benefit from it. I don't see it as important for forwards. For instance Anelka, who has very low teamwork often passes up scoring opportunities for others to tap in which I attribute to his decisions and creativity values. I place very little emphasis on teamwork overall as I tend not to rotate my defenders, so they gel well without the teamwork value. I'd like opinions on this a I believe I'm in the minority here.

Also, balance. Where and how is it important. I was once of the belief that it was useful for taking on players, and while I thinks its handy for so (evidenced by Henry and Tevez), but it doesn't have a great effect on it. It seems that its also important for targetmen, competing for headers and general jostling too perhaps ala PES. I'm only suggesting this based on it's relative correlation with jumping and strength but I respect that there seems to be a bit of confusion between meaning of stats among the scouts (otherwise how does Carragher have 18 composure?) but that would make it a mere aid for other attributes. I thought it might have something to do with overhead kicks/acrobatic volleys, as balance is essentially one's co-ordination which effects execution of such manoeuvres. Also, technique's definition doesn't cover this as I thought it might. And finally, many good keepers have very high balance, is it important for them? I know keepers occasionally slip over as I recall Given doing against Villa last season, but I thought that might have more to do with concentration/pressure, or maybe even composure as it effect just about everything else in the game <_<

So that's it. Feedback for my ramblings would be greatly appreciated.

[Gdawg69]

Ok i want to get the jumping stat cleared up. I have read someone saying somewhere that a person of 6' 4" with jumping 20 would jump the same height as a player with same jumping stats but smaller height such as 5' 11" - however, in theory this would mean that there were only 20 set level heights a player can jjump, and that to me is rubbish.

I think both jumping stats and height determine the height off the gorund a player can jump, for exapample, i reckon a 6' 2" player with 16 jumping, could possibly reach the same height a 5' 11" player with 19 stats for jumping could reach.

Please tell me others agree with this, because i find the other idea ludicrous

[Cleon]

Marc Vaughan cleared it up in GQ a year or so ago, you assume right

[Terry85]

Jumping = How high a player can get off the ground. A child 3 inches tall with a jumping of 20 can get '20 off the ground'. A 10 foot caveman with jumping of 1 can get '1 off the ground'. The 3 inch child can get higher off the ground.

Other stats and match situations/match engine mis-calculations determine who would win a header though.

This is my take on jumping on 08. I remember reading that height was going to play a factor in this version. But... I don't know if that is the case.

[st.cronin]

I have some thoughts to add. I believe many attributes are mirrors of other attributes - that one is used when a player is on attack, and the other when a player is on defense.

Agility vs. Balance ... Agility is used when a player HAS the ball, and balance is used when a player doesn't have the ball. I believe balance to be crucial for defenders and keepers, and agility to be crucial for strikers (both pacey and strong). I believe a player with poor agility will have trouble getting past defenders.

Anticipation vs. Off the Ball ... The former is when the player's team is on defense, the latter when the player's team is on offense.

Eccentricity vs. Flair ... I believe that without a certain amount of these attributes on the pitch, a team will underperform. (I think this is also true of Aggression, that a team needs a certain amount or a minimum number of players with a certain rating. If your 11 have uniformly low flair and aggression, I think you will see them underperform.)

Composure ... From the WWSM 08 manual: "The player's steadiness of mind and ability, particularly with the ball." I believe this attribute is much more important for attackers than for defenders. I think the mirror attribute for defenders is Concentration, although I am not sure.

I also agree with the poster who suggested that tackling is not necessarily a key attribute for DCs.

My own list of key attributes:

GK - Balance, Jumping, Anticipation, Bravery, Concentration, Positioning, Command of Area, Communication, Handling, Kicking, Reflexes

Sweeper Keeper - Acceleration, Balance, Jumping, Pace, Anticipation, Bravery, Concentration, Decisions, Positioning, Command of Area, Communication, Handling, Kicking, One on Ones, Reflexes, Rushing Out (For all keepers, a high rating in Aerial Ability can cover up average ratings in Jumping; a high rating in Throwing can replace poor marks in Kicking.)

You absolutely do not want a GK with either low Concentration or Handling. If you're managing a LL squad, look at those two ratings first.

DC - Acceleration, Balance, Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength, Anticipation, Bravery, Concentration, Decisions, Marking, Positioning, Heading (Good mental marks are crucial - its important to have at least one DC with high Influence.)

Mental and Physical ratings are, imo, more important than the Technical ratings for DCs. This is, imo, the most important position on the pitch - poor play from your DCs will sink your squad quicker than just about anything else.

FB/WB - Acceleration, Agility, Balance, Pace, Stamina, Anticipation, Bravery, Concentration, Decisions, Marking, Positioning, Tackling, Crossing, Dribbling, Passing (Also useful: Composure, Off the Ball, Technique, Creativity, First Touch)

Very similar to DCs, with aerial ability replaced with some attacking attributes. How much attack to look for in these positions at the expense of defense is a key managerial decision. At LL, you can probably neglect entirely the attacking attributes, and focus just on Stamina, Concentration, Marking, Positioning, and Tackling.

MCd/DMC - Balance, Stamina, Strength, Anticipation, Bravery, Concentration, Decisions, Positioning, Tackling, First Touch, Passing (Also useful: Technique, Creativity, Long Shots)

Like FB/WBs, can either be almost purely defensive, or quite attacking. Also as with FB/WBs, at LL you can likely safely neglect the attacking attributes, and focus on Stamina, Strength, Anticipation, Concentration, Decisions, Positioning, and Tackling.

MCa/AMC - Agility, Jumping, Pace, Stamina, Strength, Anticipation, Composure, Decisions, Tackling, Heading, Technique, Creativity, Dribbling, First Touch, Long Shots, Passing (Also useful: Acceleration, Positioning, Finishing)

This players skill set and physical profile will go a long way to shaping your overall tactical approach. It is not necessary to have high marks in all the areas I've listed; the ones to focus on are Composure, Decisions, Technique, Creativity, First Touch, and Passing.

MC - Agility, Balance, Pace, Stamina, Strength, Anticipation, Bravery, Decisions, Positioning, Tackling, Long Shots, Passing

Your generic MC with offensive and defensive responsibilities; it can be useful to look at all your midfielders as simply MCs, rather than either MCd or MCa. Sometimes you'll find that your best pairing is two DMCs, or that your best choice for an MCd is actually a natural AMC.

ML/R - Acceleration, Agility, Balance, Pace, Stamina, Anticipation, Composure, Tackling, Technique, Crossing, Dribbling, Finishing, First Touch, Off the Ball, Passing (Also useful: Decisions, Creativity, Long Shots)

In most tactics, the wingers are set to close down often - some defensive skill is therefore necessary. The wingers, like the MCa/AMC, can have a variety of different profiles.

Pacey Striker - Acceleration, Agility, Pace, Composure, Technique, Dribbling, Finishing, First Touch, Off the Ball

Strong Striker - Agility, Balance, Jumping, Strength, Bravery, Composure, Finishing, First Touch, Off the Ball

Lone Striker - Acceleration, Agility, Balance, Jumping, Pace, Bravery, Composure, Technique, Creativity, Finishing, First Touch, Off the Ball, Passing

I reckon Natural Fitness, Workrate, Determination, and Teamwork critical for all positions.

[nni]

Adaptability: - ... Also helps for training new positions.

No, versatility does that.

[nni]

Agility vs. Balance ... Agility is used when a player HAS the ball, and balance is used when a player doesn't have the ball. I believe balance to be crucial for defenders and keepers, and agility to be crucial for strikers (both pacey and strong). I believe a player with poor agility will have trouble getting past defenders.

I think the original explanation was correct. Agility reflects a player's ability to make sudden movements/changes of direction. So it's also important for defenders, a defender with low agility (Gooch!!!) will be unable to change direction quick enough against a skilled dribbler. Balance reflects a player's stability, so a player with high balance is not likely to fall down when bumped around (obv strength must have an influence as well).

I reckon Natural Fitness, Workrate, Determination, and Teamwork critical for all positions.

I don't think teamwork is essential for players in "selfish" positions, namely strikers and wingers. If they are good enough it's actually a good thing if they are a bit selfish (all prolific strikers are selfish )