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Long and mid range shots in the new ME. Let's talk about it.


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1 minute ago, haffaz77 said:

I recorded like 30 of these ... He could pass back , or to the player on top who runs into space before the shot . Idk ... but if he shoots .. not like that .. 

It obviously depends on the player and your settings. That's not a bad decision or even an unrealistic one. It does lack a huge amount of context though.

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Guest El Payaso
7 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

I recorded like 30 of these ... He could pass back , or to the player on top who runs into space before the shot . Idk ... but if he shoots .. not like that .. 

With time and space like that he should generally do better. But also one worrying thing about this is why space like that opens. The defending side's midfield is really badly unorganized and none of them concentrates on marking while even in amateur level players are able to do that. One of them should shift towards Fabregas before the initial pass is played. That is mainly what is wrong with midfield on FM as none of the players seem to concentrate on marking but instead rely on late closing down and sliding challenges.

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vor 2 Minuten schrieb HUNT3R:

It obviously depends on the player and your settings. That's not a bad decision or even an unrealistic one. It does lack a huge amount of context though.

Okay, please show me the "Don't take ridiculous shots from distance" button ... 

Here one from the same match . Imo nothing to do with settings. No player would do this 

 

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Just now, haffaz77 said:

Okay, please show me the "Don't take ridiculous shots from distance" button ... 

Here one from the same match . Imo nothing to do with settings. No player would do this 

 

It's still not anywhere near a "ridiculous" shot to take and it still lacks the context I mentioned. If I were you, I'd take Herne's advice.

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vor 5 Minuten schrieb HUNT3R:

It's still not anywhere near a "ridiculous" shot to take and it still lacks the context I mentioned. If I were you, I'd take Herne's advice.

U might have misunderstood .. My problem is that the shots going towards corner flag .. Shots from world class players . I can agree with "wrong settings" when its about the long shot in general . But like this .. like i said it makes me wanna close the task in taskmanager . Oh well. I guess this is how fm 18 is :D Compare it to fm 17  . cant remember seeing so many stupid shots towards corner flag ...

Edited by haffaz77
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13 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

Okay, please show me the "Don't take ridiculous shots from distance" button ... 

Here one from the same match . Imo nothing to do with settings. No player would do this 

 

@haffaz77 

Fully support your videos and your overall thinking. I already gave up about players shooting out of tactics instructions regulary, but come on - the shots are just wierd and ridiculous. Nothing can prevent this. Shooting to corner flags / advert signs too often, while in RL these things are rare as hell, especially in top leagues. 

Edited by Naor5563
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4 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

U might have misunderstood .. My problem is that the shots going towards corner flag .. Shots from world class players . I can agree with "wrong settings" when its about the long shot in general . But like this .. like i said it makes me wanna close the task in taskmanager . Oh well. I guess this is how fm 18 is :D Compare it to fm 17  . cant remember seeing so many stupid shots towards corner flag ...

We need to make a clear distinction between decision making to take shots and shot accuracy. There's a massive difference between the two.

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Guest El Payaso
12 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

It's still not anywhere near a "ridiculous" shot to take and it still lacks the context I mentioned. If I were you, I'd take Herne's advice.

How is that not a ridiculous shot? The least that the player should do is to take touch or two with the ball to make it more comfortable for him to shoot and he certainly has the space and time to do it.

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Just now, El Payaso said:

How is that not a ridiculous shot? The least that the player should do is to take touch or two with the ball to make it more comfortable for him to shoot and he certainly has the space and time to do it.

It may be poor, but the player may have wanted to take it quickly. Or the instructions had him rush everything. Or he was extremely nervous and makes rash decisions. We do not know anything about the shot. I keep saying this? There's context lacking here.

 

That said - report issues. SI can look into it.

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But the outcome of these shots ARE ridiculous, and all too frequent based on the thousands of football matches I have both played in and watched.

When faced with a defensive AI (10 men behind the ball in the second clip) - It seems to me that the default player behaviour is to take a very high risk, low percentage shot rather than continue to pass it around to draw the defence out of position.

There were 7 players involved in the second attack, so the question of 'does he have enough players in support?' is redundant. I have systematically tested all of the advice on this thread and have observed very little difference with this issue.  

 

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Gerade eben schrieb HUNT3R:

It may be poor, but the player may have wanted to take it quickly. Or the instructions had him rush everything. Or he was extremely nervous and makes rash decisions. We do not know anything about the shot.

The instructions were/are SHOOT LESS OFTEN . and my team supposed to play more disciplined . They do it usually . but those IMHO ridiculous shots are happening way too often . Oh and btw . from those around 30 shots ive recorded , are around 50% from AI vs AI matches ... 

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1 minute ago, Geordieboy52 said:

don't know if suggested but would advising to retain possession make a player more likely to pass before shooting?

I think all that does is reduce the length of passing?

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11 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

It may be poor, but the player may have wanted to take it quickly. Or the instructions had him rush everything. Or he was extremely nervous and makes rash decisions. We do not know anything about the shot. I keep saying this? There's context lacking here.

 

That said - report issues. SI can look into it.

Too many shots taken despite contradictory instructions and shots accuracy going hand to hand for me. If shots were dangerous as previous FM and RL , I would not say nothing if my player decided to shoot even tough he asked not to. 

But since they are so bad and not threatening the opponent GK as RL , it's even more disturbing and a massive issue. 

If they were good as a world class players shoots in RL from good positions, i'll happily instructmy players to shoot more ot at least won't complain if they'll do so.

Edited by Naor5563
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6 minutes ago, Geordieboy52 said:

don't know if suggested but would advising to retain possession make a player more likely to pass before shooting?

 

4 minutes ago, rdbayly said:

I think all that does is reduce the length of passing?

Retain Possession reduces passing length and through balls.

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Guest El Payaso

Not really surprised with the large denial on this issue while everyone especially using comprehensive highlights should be seeing that there are clear issues with the quality of long shots and lack of composure on those situations. Well basically I would say that this once again is one of those ways to limit the amounts of goals being scored while ideally this would be done with midfield defending actually limiting these chances. Also something that should be looked at in my opinion is set pieces and crosses and especially how the second balls go: attacking teams seem to have huge advantage on getting the second ball and that is also one thing that leads into free long shots. 

Not stating that these are facts but these are my quite clear opinions based on what I am seeing and what was the response in the bugs forum. 

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Just now, El Payaso said:

Not really surprised with the large denial on this issue while everyone especially using comprehensive highlights should be seeing that there are clear issues with the quality of long shots and lack of composure on those situations. Well basically I would say that this once again is one of those ways to limit the amounts of goals being scored while ideally this would be done with midfield defending actually limiting these chances. Also something that should be looked at in my opinion is set pieces and crosses and especially how the second balls go: attacking teams seem to have huge advantage on getting the second ball and that is also one thing that leads into free long shots. 

Not stating that these are facts but these are my quite clear opinions based on what I am seeing and what was the response in the bugs forum. 

I'm sure you're referring to me, so I'll address this clearly  -  there's no denial. Make a clear distinction between shot decision making and shot accuracy.  Then, fill in the context around it. And most of all, report issues in the bugs forum.

My post when I addressed the video was about the decision to take the shot. Haffaz then actually clarified that he meant the accuracy. Massive difference. WITH a PKM, this can be reported, especially if it's frequent. SI can then see the context around these shots for themselves, saving us from keep asking for it.

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Guest El Payaso
9 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

I'm sure you're referring to me, so I'll address this clearly  -  there's no denial. Make a clear distinction between shot decision making and shot accuracy.  Then, fill in the context around it. And most of all, report issues in the bugs forum.

My post when I addressed the video was about the decision to take the shot. Haffaz then actually clarified that he meant the accuracy. Massive difference. WITH a PKM, this can be reported, especially if it's frequent. SI can then see the context around these shots for themselves, saving us from keep asking for it.

Not specifically you and I know that you are just doing your 'job' here and have no complaints about that. I think that I have uploaded my part: the best examples that I have. 

I agree that the decision to take the shot on those occasions are not the problem but the quality and also the lack of composure as especially in the second one the shooting player could and should make it easier for himself with extra touch or two.

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@haffaz77 From those two videos I'd agree that on the face of it those "shots" are, at best, pretty inaccurate and arguably there may have been better passing options.  It may even be worth uploading the pkm to the bugs forum and give SI the timings of these shots.

Before you do, something to check - are these "shots" actually recorded as shots?  In both cases, there were players out on the wings so could they have been poorly placed passes?  Probably not, but worth a double check.

BTW, I actually think your Work Ball Into Box instruction is working against you in this instance.  With so many playmakers & support players in your side and with such a low tempo you're basically trying to ask your players to walk the ball into the goal.  There's little thrust in the final third and you'll perhaps be overly reliant on a little spark of magic from someone to get a goal (ok, you have Messi but hopefully you see what I mean).

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vor 28 Minuten schrieb herne79:

@haffaz77 From those two videos I'd agree that on the face of it those "shots" are, at best, pretty inaccurate and arguably there may have been better passing options.  It may even be worth uploading the pkm to the bugs forum and give SI the timings of these shots.

Before you do, something to check - are these "shots" actually recorded as shots?  In both cases, there were players out on the wings so could they have been poorly placed passes?  Probably not, but worth a double check.

BTW, I actually think your Work Ball Into Box instruction is working against you in this instance.  With so many playmakers & support players in your side and with such a low tempo you're basically trying to ask your players to walk the ball into the goal.  There's little thrust in the final third and you'll perhaps be overly reliant on a little spark of magic from someone to get a goal (ok, you have Messi but hopefully you see what I mean).

Yes, both of those shots were recorded as shots , no long passes . I will try without "Work Ball into Box" .

I get it that many so called "Issues" can be reduced or fixed by working on tactics. But u simply can't do anything against those kind of shots. 

I also posted it to the bugs forum

Edited by haffaz77
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20 minutes ago, haffaz77 said:

Yes, both of those shots were recorded as shots , no long passes . I will try without "Work Ball into Box" .

I get it that many so called "Issues" can be reduced or fixed by working on tactics. But u simply can't do anything against those kind of shots. 

I also posted it to the bugs forum

Your use of WBIB isn't necessarily the issue.  It's the use of it in combination with the rest of your set up.  Not only are you giving so much time for defenders to properly organise themselves (resulting in lack of space to take advantage of and, ultimately, a shot from range) but with a striker who is dropping so deep, who is running into the space vacated?  Messi with his "comes deep to get ball" PPM?  One of your support duty wingers?  Or one of your deep lying playmakers?

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2 hours ago, haffaz77 said:

Okay, please show me the "Don't take ridiculous shots from distance" button ... 

Here one from the same match . Imo nothing to do with settings. No player would do this 

 

This is just embarrassing.. I'm glad i didn't buy this year version of fm

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8 hours ago, El Payaso said:

Well basically I would say that this once again is one of those ways to limit the amounts of goals being scored

I fear in prior releases, more of those would probably be on target, and the keeper as usual saving most of them them / getting their hand on them fairly easily. The keeper rating would be bumped by the sheer volumes of pop shots, and voila the "super keeper" was reborn which never was. In almost any such shot, the keeper is in a massively edg, taht's not even up for debate --he has the edge in most one on ones in his box easily. There is nothing such happening. What's traditionally happening is players highly overvalueing chances. An abundance of that  ranged stuff makes keepers usually look ridiculously good. Blame the state of football punditry -- and keepers love any such attempt likewise, as they can get the crowd and pundit going rooooar.  What I agreed on anyway was that stuff even with specialists too readily goes way off target -- you may reasonably highlight it by assembling a squad of sharp shooters, and encourage them to "shoot on sight".

The bigger issue with finishing in recent iterations never was with decent high quality shots getting missed in abundance (that should be missed too, of course) -- it was always this stuff and this stuff exactly, some of which could be amassed way too easily, creating the perception of "completely dominating" matches on occasion - whilst barely creating a quality opening with some regularity for some. And if such attempts wouldn't be that super regularly converted as such, it would be so for good reason. This is also important to understand if a player would ever drop deep on any release and soak up opposition shots himself (bit extreme this, mind). The majority of such attempts never had a super high chance of being converted. I think with some better accuracy, some more goals may be scored that way, either directly, or indirectly, but not by a gigantic amount. It didn't in the past. The ridiculous matches uploaded in the past proved it, with players arguing they were all over an opponent, when it was mostly fairly loads of crap. I fully agree with you that the defensive engagement here is to blame in parts. As you point out, in the above vids, the shooter has loads of time and space, quite oftenly. If the engagement was better, some of such ranged shots in particular wouldn't come off, which was oft the issue in here.

There has never been deliberately been a case of "unrealistic bad finishing" introduced in the game to keep "scorelines in check" though. Be that ridiculous long shots, anything.  That's a myth. It's been denied by the coders. There may be of course "Unrealistic bad finishing", and perceptions of such. But "bad finishing" generally isn't introduced to the game to nerf strike rates -- it is introduced in an attempt to mimic football. In football most of the stuff doesn't go anywhere. Naturally, in some areas the game may make a better job, in others a worse one.  And that's what this is about. :D* btw, I think that there's generally also fewer corners on FM 18 than in some past editions, where the averages could easily be higher than in football, is connected to the accuracy from range in parts. As an added amount of ranged attempts doesn't test the keeper...

Edited by Svenc
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Started a save with Man Utd, just for tests. Friendly game against my hometown team in Portugal, 3rd division. I'm uploading just because I laughed. Both teams are in white because I had problems saving the file. And as Hunt3r requested, this play is not about shot decision, is about shot accuracy, Juan Mata, what a beast :applause:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nInw2K5B_dc&feature=youtu.be

 

 

Edited by shadster
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1 hour ago, shadster said:

Started a save with Man Utd, just for tests. Friendly game against my hometown team in Portugal, 3th division. I'm uploading just because I laughed. Both teams are in white because I had problems saving the file. And as Hunt3r requested, this play is not about shot decision, is about shot accuracy, Juan Mata, what a beast :applause:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nInw2K5B_dc&feature=youtu.be

 

 

This, right here, this is ****ing it. This is the stuff that makes the game borderline-insufferable to me this year. 

Just have a gander at it for a second: Mata is perfectly warranted in taking the shot. He's not (at least visibly) tightly marked, he's right at the top of the box, and he takes it with his strong foot. The only factors that should noticeably be impacting shot quality here are Mata's mentals (which if memory serves are more than adequate) and the fact that he arguably takes it rather quickly. Still, while not a quality chance necessarily (in terms of xG), this is absolutely a situation from which I would expect an excellent player like Mata to test the keeper.

... and he puts it out of touch via the right sideline. This shot is so off-target that off-target isn't even an adequate descriptor any more. The player might as well have been aiming at something in an entirely different dimension! It's a nifty little guessing game at this point: is he having a crack at goal, or trying to put a crack in Mars' polar ice caps?

Mind you, this isn't something that happens infrequently, either. This isn't some freak bug. Egregiously, outrageously awful shots like this aren't common - but they're not uncommon, either. It beggars belief to me that an issue like this has slipped through QA.

@shadster If you haven't already, I definitely think this is one for the bugs forum.

Edited by Sampsiceramos
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Guest El Payaso

@Svencwould say that it would be really unlikely that something like that would be admitted. But trusting on my own well working eyes and experience I will stick into my opinion.

Like for example in half a season I had zero goals from long distance and based on what I have seen in real football I would say that I created more chances a game than teams generally create to score from long range and from decent chances. I reported on this two or three versions ago and then for example Adam Mignay agreed with me: if you have good players taking chances like I created I should be able to score from them more regularly.

Like for example with Swansea in my most recent game I built a chance for Leroy Fer where he had no one closing him down at the edge of the area and had clear path to pass it to the far corner and instead he somehow managed to turn the shot into opposite direction and horribly missing it. For example Sergi Darder just last weekend made more difficult finish from the edge of the area look easy as he just guided the ball to bottom corner. Fer also should have all the attributes to score those regularly and he got those openings without scoring a single one from those through the whole season. 

It's quite a mood killer when you see that I get the right chances for a right type of a player just to see it never working while poor crossers regularly are able to hit perfect pinpointers under extreme closing down and from full speed and from much longer distance. 

Like for example in real life Chelsea scored 20-25% of their goals from long range which probably exceeds the amount from crosses and Coutinho scored close to 50% of his goals for Liverpool from long range. Show me a team on FM scoring more than 20 goals from long range... Well a team scoring more than 30 would be close to truth as teams do get more decent and good chances to do it on FM than in real life. 

Of course the midfield defending is the main source here but this is an area that SI haven't been able to get balanced and well working in years. So the basic questions here are: why so many long shots are taken from good positions and why so many crosses are played in? (as quality of crosses has also been nerfed and if I'm right, this has been admitted). 

On both of those questions I have uploaded tons of examples during the years without any real support from SI. 

I doubt that I'm the only one who would like to see players actually able to shoot the ball instead of players being able dribble the ball inhumanely and then being able to put a pinpoint ball in for a player who shouldn't be able to cause any threat inside the penalty area. Would make more sense and heck at least would bring some variety to the always cross dominated match engines. I don't know about other people and about SI especially but for me it makes more sense that someone like Fer (best season 8 goals in Premier league) can shoot the ball decently than seeing someone like Adama breaking the Championship assist record while in real life having two assists in more than 50 games. 

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That first video in isolation you could say..yes ok he took the shot...but for decison maker with fabregas vision and his proclivity to pass it...the strong likelihood is in the real world he would have slotted in the right full back who had run into a terrific position into space where rb could have cut back to forward player...so really it was poor decision making to go for a shot...a situation like rb in that space running into pen area is the type of one the likes of fabregas plays to exploit. fabregas body shape was towards that run of rb so it was in his vision

Also fabrgeas body shape when he took shot was he facing away from goal...so was another bad decision to take a shot with that body shape...technically the biomechanics of that is way off. Of course one could argue it's graphics issue misrepresenting the situation but then the shot ended up more or less going the direction his body was facing so...the direction of the shot mapped the direction his body was facing so go figure

 

The goretzka one similarly is poor...who moves 6 yards backwards and unleashes a shot from that distance...the momentum would make it difficult to generate that power as per that shot in FM. So on that basis alone its a bad decision...then add in the angle of the defender going to close him down...also goretzka is RIGHT footed. So all those thing make it a crazy decision to shoot in that instance.

So really its the decision making to shoot in these instances which is a bigger deal than the wildness of the shoot...that's not to say the wildness of the shot is not an issue in itself and irritating, as it is (one thing though is real world there's some really wild shooting as well perhaps not as prevalent for top players but certainly its there). I think adding 'curl' would tone down the visual effects of even some of the less wild shots. 

As @herne79pointed out there are factors of movement/set ups etc which can be a factor in players taking pot shots in FM but there are many many instances in FM where it's simply bad decision making where there ARE other options and just to take shots where they shouldn't be. The ball should be recycled more if there are no options for through balls or whatever rather than an 'out' of a shot...it's too prominent within FM that a long shot is used as an 'out' getting close to the pen area which is essentially bad decision making especially when trying to play through the middle

 

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Another concern with this issue is that if SI plays & tests the game as much as they say, shouldn't they have picked up this problem already if it's this common? Do they still need additional help from paying customers via bug reports and pkms to fix it?

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5 hours ago, Cap'nRad said:

Another concern with this issue is that if SI plays & tests the game as much as they say, shouldn't they have picked up this problem already if it's this common? Do they still need additional help from paying customers via bug reports and pkms to fix it?

Firstly, it depends on what the problem actually is. Shot accuracy is the problem here imo, not the decisions. But still, it needs examples to log. With examples logged, it's not magically fixed. Someone needs to then use those examples to fix whatever the issue underneath is by tweaking parameters in the ME. Then THAT needs testing too. Tweaking shot accuracy or blance or composure or whatever causes that shot to go that wide, will have big knock-on effects, because now all shots are more accurate, so that needs testing again. Then something else needs tweaking, or they go back 1 step and adjust something else. And test again.

It's not a simple process. The examples users log saves time so that time can rather be spent elsewhere in the process. It's not that they "need" the help and you don't have to, but it does help and they're always appreciative of help that they receive and it does help improve the game we all love.

 

Just an example - I don't think there's an issue with the accuracy of the shots at all. They're quite accurate, in fact. The players don't seem to turn enough though. Whether that's composure, balance or something else, I don't know. No one has mentioned this though, so that should show you it's not simple.

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I think its shot accuracy problem underlining that when ever a player reaches the outside of opposition BOX area whether its from a corner or from a Pass, He decide to shoot despite having options and Shoot it carelessly to any side he prefers. I feel its might be down to calibration of Mentality settings when the player reaches the Area of just out side of box so he feels he can score the goal with a long shot. 

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb HUNT3R:

Just an example - I don't think there's an issue with the accuracy of the shots at all. They're quite accurate, in fact. The players don't seem to turn enough though. Whether that's composure, balance or something else, I don't know. No one has mentioned this though, so that should show you it's not simple.

Either way, it should be fixed. Yesterday i've posted my 2 small clip examples + PKM to the Bug Forum . As expected ... no answer at all. The other Day i have posted another Issue with Replay Highlights and got an answer from an Admin straight away. I only speak for myself, this is kind of frustrating when no one says that its a known issue and they're working on it !?  I don't think the solution is to remove them from the Highlights , like they did with the poor crossing before 18.2 Patch ... 

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Just now, haffaz77 said:

Either way, it should be fixed. Yesterday i've posted my 2 small clip examples + PKM to the Bug Forum . As expected ... no answer at all. The other Day i have posted another Issue with Replay Highlights and got an answer from an Admin straight away. I only speak for myself, this is kind of frustrating when no one says that its a known issue and they're working on it !?  I don't think the solution is to remove them from the Highlights , like they did with the poor crossing before 18.2 Patch ... 

It's only been 18 hours and it's the weekend. You will be answered, it might not just be immediate. 

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With the above display its pretty clear that combination of either or both shooting accuracy and Decision making is the culprit of the problem, no amount of tactical adjustments / tweaks will make sure that its not going to happen. I don't think we had this sort of long shots in FM17. Might be some where deep in mentality at final third be the culprit which forces the unrealistic long shots. 

 

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12 hours ago, akkm said:

who moves 6 yards backwards and unleashes a shot from that distance

Players often moonwalk / backslide into position to connect with the ball and trigger a logical shooting animation. I think it's a limitation of the current ME.

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Yeah, gonna have to lend my weight to the annoyance at watching shots from central area's go so wide the opposition gets a throw-in. It's just unfathomable that it wasn't picked up at any stage of testing because it's several times per game.

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Haven't read the entire thread because there's a huge amount of just plain ranting here, but if you want to stop your players from taking so many long shots, allow them more time on the ball. Run at defence tends to help a lot.

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3 hours ago, LCpl said:

Yeah, gonna have to lend my weight to the annoyance at watching shots from central area's go so wide the opposition gets a throw-in. It's just unfathomable that it wasn't picked up at any stage of testing because it's several times per game.

Don't make that assumption. I posted about this already.

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22 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

Don't make that assumption. I posted about this already.

I've not read the whole thread, so if you're warning me, then fair enough.

Between this and the endless lobbed passes and floated crosses it's been an poor year for FM. 

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Guest El Payaso

Kinda funny how these technical skills are balanced within the ME. Last year I reported on first touches as even at Conference level you could basically never see heavy first touches and my team was able to play really attractive one touch football with really high possession numbers. The answer for this was that "even players in local park can control the ball perfectly under pressure". This though doesn't apply on shooting apparently... 

At the same time irl Drinkwater has had two chances to shoot from distance, both being dangerous and the second one crashing the cross bar. And at the same time Batshuayi has taken something like 4-5 heavy first touches in less than half an hour and not a single chance has been created by dribbling and crossing. And while writing this Norwich hit the bar from distance. 

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It's also fantastic when you combine this incredibly idiotic shooting decisions and balls beeing shot to the corner flag and shoots beeing taken from totally stupid positions like this Coutinho's above for example, with the situations when a player has 3 defenders standing in front of him, like 1m in front and he still decides the best way to go is to shoot at the defender..ffs! It doesn't matter he has options right and left and even pass it back to the defender..no, he will power it straight to the defender and sometimes the ball will come back to him for another one which goes to another defender or is just blasted 359 yards left from the goal. Fantastic. And I am talking about world class players here.

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Watching tonight's Bristol City vs Derby County match, late on in the match, the City sub was fed the ball about 25 yards out. He had three defenders in front of him and, without seeming to look up at the players coming in behind him, fired a scuffed shot wide. EXACTLY like in FM.

HOWEVER, this shot was not so far wide. It was off-target and poor and the exact things that admins and tactical whizzkids tell us can effect a shot from that distance, but it didn't look half as bad as some FM attempts. Maybe it might be worth tweaking the distance & height of these missed long range shots??

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On 20/01/2018 at 15:38, Deisler26 said:

Maybe it might be worth tweaking the distance & height of these missed long range shots??

This is the main thing from my reading of this thread and experiences. It's not so much the amount or conversion ratio that bugs me, just the exaggeration of the misses. Watching games and highlights, you see most long shots miss but a lot of them tend to be fairly close. You can see what the player was trying and if it'd just curled a bit more or been slightly lower (etc.) then it may have caused real problems. They're usually close enough that you feel like it may have been half a chance and that one of them might go in and you're happy enough for them to keep trying. In FM, too many of them go way off target, which IRL would cause the manager to explode if they kept wasting the attack without getting anywhere near the target (and the players would start trying to get closer to the goal before shooting to make sure they at least hit the target). All SI need to do is reduce the margin of the miss, which I'm sure they're looking at.

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17 hours ago, Cal585 said:

which IRL would cause the manager to explode

This is the issue. We are role playing the manager but lack basic verbal communication tools to stop it happening. The reality is you would simply be able pull the offenders aside in the dressing room to combat this behaviour. 

There is also the fact that these elite players would never have made it in the professional game if the majority of their shots end up being:

- The worst decision possible given available passing options

- Often hit with the weaker foot and under no pressure

- Struck with the power of a back-pass

- Closer to the corner flag than the goal

I haven't noticed this issue as much in thousands of hours of play on previous versions. I tend to use similar tactical approaches and formations with my teams like 4123 or 4141 with lower risk mentalities. The TC consists of basically the same set of options as it always has, so if my inputs are causing long shot hell, what has changed and where is the explanation?

 

Edited by rdbayly
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1. In my view I don't think its composure or Decision or Shooting attributes its just that when they are in long shot attempt zone (lets call it that way)  they shoot no matter who it is whether its Messi or some 6th and lower tier team player.

2. Is that when they reach that said zone do the Shoot at sight is activated automatically?

3. Can SI just make the player to dribble more into box when he reaches the long shot attempt zone to inside box or around it but not in the long shot attempt zone and see how they react to that and /or how many attempts they made to shoot. 

4. Some times it looks like they wanted to pass but shoot it with much more power than required which counts as Shot than pass, Some times they want to shoot but feels like they didn't turn or didn't turn enough to make it a shot. What Attribute count in this kind of situation was it decision or Composure or Agility or technique ?

 

 

Edited by ferrarinseb
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Guest El Payaso
On 21.1.2018 at 02:42, Cal585 said:

This is the main thing from my reading of this thread and experiences. It's not so much the amount or conversion ratio that bugs me, just the exaggeration of the misses. Watching games and highlights, you see most long shots miss but a lot of them tend to be fairly close. You can see what the player was trying and if it'd just curled a bit more or been slightly lower (etc.) then it may have caused real problems. They're usually close enough that you feel like it may have been half a chance and that one of them might go in and you're happy enough for them to keep trying. In FM, too many of them go way off target, which IRL would cause the manager to explode if they kept wasting the attack without getting anywhere near the target (and the players would start trying to get closer to the goal before shooting to make sure they at least hit the target). All SI need to do is reduce the margin of the miss, which I'm sure they're looking at.

I would say that there is also a problem with conversion rates and not just the shot quality. For example I had 1 goal from long range (from a free-kick) in about 25 games with Swansea and in every game we basically had those decent chances to score from long range where player wasn't closed down and the player has decent long range shooting attributes (Leroy Fer mainly). Also I'm seeing teams like Manchester United, Chelsea etc. being totally harmless against me if they don't get to shoot from 5-10 yards out. For me it makes no sense that you can basically never see the quality from players that actually have the attributes to shoot the ball. If you have one or two of those and you can create a tactic where they get to take long rangers from decent areas regularly then you should also be able to expect to threaten/score regularly from those. In real life there are multiple teams in the Premier league for example that have scored around 10 goals outside the area this season and I doubt that any team gets even close to that in FM.

Been watching some older seasons reviews on video and there is a much bigger variation in terms of goals and there are regularly goals scored from 25-30 yards out which FM never produces. Would certainly be nice if the game would produce more of these sensible goals instead of wingers running with the ball half the length of the pitch before finding a midget inside the penalty area. Those type of goals do not make sense while long range goals would. So instead of just watching statistics I think that the team should be looking at how many goals are making sense. 

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Could be the mentality ladder is root cause

ohxM7d7.png

Some how its consistently giving the all 3 Duties at Final third to Shoot as top priority, Or all the duties become into Attacking Duty at final third thus forcing the attacking moves i.e shooting mentality at final third

 

 

 

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