Help Replicating Pep's Current City Team>

[Gegenklaus]

Has anyone thought or tried out to teach the wingers the PPM "Hugs Line"? Or does it conflict with the "Cuts inside" ppm? 

[blehq12]

There isn't any conflict, fortunately it works!

[JD nawrat]

This is an interesting thread with a lot of interesting replies. As a City fan, I've watched us a lot over the past two years of course and I'm fascinated by Pep's style of play. I haven't tried to recreate it in FM (any version) because I don't believe the ME is workable in the way you need it to be to truly recreate what Pep does. 

What I will say though is that Aguero does not play as a F9, like ever. He's definitely a CF/A or AF/A. When Gabby Jesus plays you could argue for a F9, but it's more like again, a CF/A or perhaps a DLF/A, as he does like to drop into the midfield frequently but is generally leading the line. 

The closest role to what KDB actually does is RPM. Silva is probably an Advanced Playmaker, but you can make an argument for a Mezzala, especially on the same side as Sané.

Sterling is not a Winger in any sense. Raumdeuter is probably the closest role, perhaps Trequartista but that wouldn't allow for much defensive flex, plus would perhaps put too much focus on Sterling as the main attacker, which isn't the case. Sané is a Winger, though. 

Walker is an Attack duty FB, no matter the role - which, by the way, isn't an IWB. He does cut inside sometimes, but 9 times out of 10 he hugs the line and stretches the play. Not an IWB. 

To be perfectly honest I think a 4141 probably suits the game more for recreating a Pep style, because that shape is inherently better at keeping the ball than a 433. Both work, though, and 433 has the obvious advantage of allowing you to set Sterling up as a RMD.

e: Just realised this is quite an old thread. 

[NabsKebabs]

1 hour ago, JDownie said:

This is an interesting thread with a lot of interesting replies. As a City fan, I've watched us a lot over the past two years of course and I'm fascinated by Pep's style of play. I haven't tried to recreate it in FM (any version) because I don't believe the ME is workable in the way you need it to be to truly recreate what Pep does. 

What I will say though is that Aguero does not play as a F9, like ever. He's definitely a CF/A or AF/A. When Gabby Jesus plays you could argue for a F9, but it's more like again, a CF/A or perhaps a DLF/A, as he does like to drop into the midfield frequently but is generally leading the line. 

The closest role to what KDB actually does is RPM. Silva is probably an Advanced Playmaker, but you can make an argument for a Mezzala, especially on the same side as Sané.

Sterling is not a Winger in any sense. Raumdeuter is probably the closest role, perhaps Trequartista but that wouldn't allow for much defensive flex, plus would perhaps put too much focus on Sterling as the main attacker, which isn't the case. Sané is a Winger, though. 

Walker is an Attack duty FB, no matter the role - which, by the way, isn't an IWB. He does cut inside sometimes, but 9 times out of 10 he hugs the line and stretches the play. Not an IWB. 

To be perfectly honest I think a 4141 probably suits the game more for recreating a Pep style, because that shape is inherently better at keeping the ball than a 433. Both work, though, and 433 has the obvious advantage of allowing you to set Sterling up as a RMD.

e: Just realised this is quite an old thread. 

Interesting thoughts. I think the striker definitely plays as an F9 though. This is because of how high and wide the wingers position themselves in the build up. The striker has to drop deep to connect the midfield to the attack. I do believe that Sterling stays as wide as possible in the build up but he had more freedom to come inside than Sane did. This is because Delph was playing as an inverted fullback on the left so it was important for Sane to provide width (Pep said this). Walker was interesting for me. I actually found that he made a lot of underlapping runs in the box. I would say he was usually a FB(A) with sit narrower (that will encourage him to tuck in during the buildup as he did, and perhaps encourage underlapping runs). 

Also the shape has to be 433 imo. This is because Man City play a high block. This is best achieved in top heavy formations. 4141 is suited to a low block. 

[JD nawrat]

5 minutes ago, NabsKebabs said:

Interesting thoughts. I think the striker definitely plays as an F9 though. This is because of how high and wide the wingers position themselves in the build up. The striker has to drop deep to connect the midfield to the attack. I do believe that Sterling stays as wide as possible in the build up but he had more freedom to come inside than Sane did. This is because Delph was playing as an inverted fullback on the left so it was important for Sane to provide width (Pep said this). Walker was interesting for me. I actually found that he made a lot of underlapping runs in the box. I would say he was usually a FB(A) with sit narrower (that will encourage him to tuck in during the buildup as he did, and perhaps encourage underlapping runs). 

Also the shape has to be 433 imo. This is because Man City play a high block. This is best achieved in top heavy formations. 4141 is suited to a low block. 

In FM terms perhaps F9 is the answer. That just makes me point back to my original post though where I said the ME doesn't allow a recreation of Pep's football. Aguero is rarely seen dropping deep - he plays on the shoulder of the last man, often moving into the channels, thus pinning defenders back and creating holes between the lines for KDB, Silva and Fernandinho to push forward in to. 

What you say about Sané being needed for width is correct - when Mendy got injured, Pep had to drop the 532 we had been playing because there was nobody to stretch the pitch wide. Sané was tried at LWB Vs. Everton and was so bad that we dropped the 532 that game and didn't use it again the rest of the season. 

As for Walker, he makes those underlaps when Sterling stays wide, but as you alluded to, Sterling has more freedom to cut inside. Sané isn't deprived of this freedom as he frequently does cut inside. However he is naturally left footed and excels at beating his man on the outside before cutting in at the byline. While the same can be said of Sterling, it's clear he isn't a traditional wide man like Sané and is actually more of a central attacker at times, he also excels cutting inside from the right, despite his natural right footedness suggesting it wouldn't be his best asset. But yes Walker is often seen making underlaps. The key difference between an underlapping FB and an FM IWB is clear though, and Walker doesn't play like an FM IWB. He is rarely if ever in a central position - even when he makes those underlaps they're from deep and often at high speed, and even so he's still very much on the RW, it's just that if Sterling stays hugging the line it makes Walker look like he's far inside, when he never is. There's a reason he doesn't score goals for City despite how fat forward he gets, and it is because he is always wide. Even when he underlaps, he's not central. Not like an IWB is. 

[goqs06]

My understanding from this insightful video would be that Sterling is a IF (s), with the PI “stays wider”. He tends to stay wide like a winger, and only cuts into the box late.

[NabsKebabs]

30 minutes ago, goqs06 said:

My understanding from this insightful video would be that Sterling is a IF (s), with the PI “stays wider”. He tends to stay wide like a winger, and only cuts into the box late.

That's a possibility aswell. Guardiola does seem to rate Sterling's technical ability (used him as a false 9 both games vs Man United). So it could be that Sterling dropped slightly deeper than Sane to control possession on the right hand side of the pitch. This will open a load of space for Sane to attack down the left (this was often the case). Additionally, Sterling's PPM of "gets into opposition area" means that he will still attack the box with aggression. 

[blehq12]

On 15/06/2018 at 15:51, NabsKebabs said:

That's a possibility aswell. Guardiola does seem to rate Sterling's technical ability (used him as a false 9 both games vs Man United). So it could be that Sterling dropped slightly deeper than Sane to control possession on the right hand side of the pitch. This will open a load of space for Sane to attack down the left (this was often the case). Additionally, Sterling's PPM of "gets into opposition area" means that he will still attack the box with aggression. 

Why not try him as a RMD? Isn't that a winger-insider forward hybrid role?

[NabsKebabs]

8 minutes ago, blehq12 said:

Why not try him as a RMD? Isn't that a winger-insider forward hybrid role?

Not really. The RMD is just about finding space. Minimal dribbling. Wingers/Inside Forwards are all about dribbling. 

[blehq12]

Just now, NabsKebabs said:

Not really. The RMD is just about finding space. Minimal dribbling. Wingers/Inside Forwards are all about dribbling. 

Like a Thomas Muller right?

[NabsKebabs]

15 minutes ago, blehq12 said:

Like a Thomas Muller right?

Exactly. Callejon from Napoli is another good example. 

Regardless of that, I'm not saying using Sterling as a RMD is a bad option either. Could definitely be a good option (especially if your tactical system helps to create space for him).