Help Replicating Pep's Current City Team>

[krisspickering]

Hi all,

I've played FM/CM since the 'told CM2(i think) on the Amiga 500. Thing is though, I've never tried to replicate another managers style of play.

But after watching Pep's devastatingly good Man City team this year, I'd like to see if I can get a team on FM playing like they do. Trouble is, barring the basic team shape, I haven't got a clue where to start with the team or player setting(or OI's).

Can one of you tactical geniuses help me get my team playing like the current City team?

 

Thanks in advance...

[Flohrinho]

Since I have writen something about this in another thread I'll just quote myself.

On 12/13/2017 at 19:06, Flohrinho said:

Would be really interesting to see your take on Guardiola's tactics at City as I'm currently trying to reproduce this myself, with mixed success. So it would be awesome to see someone else trying their hands on his tactic.

Here is a video that gives some good information on the topic.

 

 

57 minutes ago, Flohrinho said:

I can only recommend doing the Guardiola at City tactics. After a slow start it's now actually working like a charm for me.

Had to do a lot of tweaking in the first 5 or 6 games till I found the balance. Here are the three tactics I have settled for so far.

The main Tactic a 4-3-3 with IWBs that forms the amazing low block with three players and is incredibly stable at the back. Since changing to a F9 in attack even my attack is starting to really click and I had a couple of higher socring games of late.

I still have to micro manage certain stuff. For example I switch the DM to a HB or Anchor man and one of the Mezzalas to support if I face a two striker attack. Sometimes if the opposition gets too many dangerous attacks going I switch the two of IWBs and the DM to defend, give both my wingers attacking duties and switch from short passing to normal passing.

Alternative tactic is the 433 with Wingbacks, which I usually employ against teams who really block the center and completely mark my CMs out of the game. Sometimes I even change the support DM to a DLP-S in hopes to pull some of the defensive midfielders out to close him down.

Same goes here for the DM as in the other tactic if up against two strikers.

Last tactic I used was the 3-1-4-2 described in the video although I use wingbacks and not wide midfielders like described in the video.

I rarely used this tactic though and only employed it against one team so far who was playing a 4-3-1-2. This way I could guarantee all their three central attackers had one man against them and I still outnumbered their two strikers by one CB. I'm really excited for this tactic especially since I don't even have the perfect players for this tactic yet. Planning to go all out for either Asensio or Isco and Dybala or Griezmann in the summer to get a better MEZ and a quality F9 in.

 

Hope that helps you a bit with getting in the right direction.

Even watching my team play reminds me a lot of how City plays but so far I can't yet recreate the insane amount of possession they have without completely blunting my attack though. Still the majority of games I end up with around 85% passing success which is good enough for me.

[yonko]

The irony of using Man United to replicate Pep's City tactic...

Control mentality is too risky for the possession style they play with. Fluid is not the right shape either. Pep likes to open up the space more and have more structure in the team.

[Flohrinho]

4 minutes ago, yonko said:

The irony of using Man United to replicate Pep's City tactic...

Control mentality is too risky for the possession style they play with. Fluid is not the right shape either. Pep likes to open up the space more and have more structure in the team.

I went with counter structured first but that didn't work at all since it was impossible for me to generate any pressure when it came to pressing. So I opted for a more aggressive pressing approach and went with a very low tempo and short passing to compensate for the, like you said too attacking mentality. When I feel like I'm still too risky I switch back to standard or counter.

But yeah it's not a 100% fit, which imo is impossible. You can't even create what de Bruyne is doing as a role. He is everywhere on the pitch, one moment deep between the defenders, the other moment on the right flank, while Sterling pushes inside. It's impossible to play this way in the current match engine I think so you have to make compromises due to what is possible with the match engine and what not.

[wixxi]

27 minutes ago, Flohrinho said:

I went with counter structured first but that didn't work at all since it was impossible for me to generate any pressure when it came to pressing. So I opted for a more aggressive pressing approach and went with a very low tempo and short passing to compensate for the, like you said too attacking mentality. When I feel like I'm still too risky I switch back to standard or counter.

But yeah it's not a 100% fit, which imo is impossible. You can't even create what de Bruyne is doing as a role. He is everywhere on the pitch, one moment deep between the defenders, the other moment on the right flank, while Sterling pushes inside. It's impossible to play this way in the current match engine I think so you have to make compromises due to what is possible with the match engine and what not.

For the de bruyne role I would have thought a roaming playmaker would work well?

[Flohrinho]

22 minutes ago, wixxi said:

For the de bruyne role I would have thought a roaming playmaker would work well?

I tried that with Pogba but still the winger on his side would end up isolated if I didn't play him as a Mezzala. Yet it might be worth a punt experimenting with this and maybe Silva as an AP on support. Even though I'm skeptical two playmakers next to each other actually work really well. Another problem is that with Manchester United I don't have the exact same players that Guardiola has so it's problematic to really test it one for one if that setup with these two players might work. I'm happy to be convinced otherwise though as I really would like to get as close as possible to the original.

Oh and while we are at it, anyone know a good way on how to create effective pressing with a counter attacking mentality and a structured team shape? I'm open to suggestions in how to translate things better into the game.

[Moutorious]

17 minutes ago, Flohrinho said:

I tried that with Pogba but still the winger on his side would end up isolated if I didn't play him as a Mezzala. Yet it might be worth a punt experimenting with this and maybe Silva as an AP on support. Even though I'm skeptical two playmakers next to each other actually work really well. Another problem is that with Manchester United I don't have the exact same players that Guardiola has so it's problematic to really test it one for one if that setup with these two players might work. I'm happy to be convinced otherwise though as I really would like to get as close as possible to the original.

Oh and while we are at it, anyone know a good way on how to create effective pressing with a counter attacking mentality and a structured team shape? I'm open to suggestions in how to translate things better into the game.

PIs no? Close down much more on the front line with hard tackling and mark tighter too

[Flohrinho]

48 minutes ago, Moutorious said:

PIs no? Close down much more on the front line with hard tackling and mark tighter too

I'll give it a shot tomorrow but I think I will have to rethink my entire team structure if I go with a structured deep standing patient system.

[priority76]

Are you going to upload this for us to try?

[Columnarius]

In my opinion (FWIW), I think @Rashidi has gotten as close as anyone WRT to shape, roles, team instructions, and player instructions.

Watching City the past two games (Man Utd and Swansea), I've started to wonder if maybe the MEZ should be on attack rather than support but other than that it seems spot on.

Lastly, I still believe that the opposition instructions covered in this article are as close as one can get to replicating the way they press and clog the passing lanes.

[Rashidi]

There are a lot of little intricacies that Pep has in his system. The fact that he uses Silva and DB as pivots and that he sometimes asks the two AMs to stay wide when they don’t have the ball and then work inside when they do.

To top that off you also have the swap instructions he gets his wide players to do which with the pivoting the two central mids do, it makes it really challenging to get this working well. 

I do like like this version of the tactic I created, so much so that two of my saves have this tactic in all its player swapping glory.  There are still things however that can’t be achieved and thanks @Columnarius

[NabsKebabs]

@Rashidi something I find interesting is that in the video you mention that playing on structured allows your players to use the width of pitch. Could you please explain how  structured shape uses the width of the pitch more so than fluid? 

[Flohrinho]

10 hours ago, priority76 said:

Are you going to upload this for us to try?

I can sure do that but keep in mind that I somewhat tailored it to work with my team and it's not necessarily an exact replication of Pep's tactic, just utilizes some of the concepts as the 5-5 split and trying to always have one more CB than striker on the pitch. I also try to keep a lot of the ball. That being said the tactic is not plug and play in anyway, you constantly need to change the DM role and sometimes need to drop the d-line to slightly lower if you get too many balls over the top. But yeah if you just want to have a look at it I'll attach it to this post.

Pep_3-1-4-2-v1.0.fmf

Pep_4-3-3_IWB-v1.3.fmf

Pep_4-3-3_wide-v1.1.fmf

 

3 hours ago, Rashidi said:

There are a lot of little intricacies that Pep has in his system. The fact that he uses Silva and DB as pivots and that he sometimes asks the two AMs to stay wide when they don’t have the ball and then work inside when they do.

To top that off you also have the swap instructions he gets his wide players to do which with the pivoting the two central mids do, it makes it really challenging to get this working well. 

I do like like this version of the tactic I created, so much so that two of my saves have this tactic in all its player swapping glory.  There are still things however that can’t be achieved and thanks @Columnarius

Interesting Video you made and nice to see you aren't too far off from what I have tried to do so far. Going to see if I can make some of your ideas work in my tactic as well. Thanks as always for the insightful posts.

[mkkadi]

6 hours ago, Rashidi said:

There are a lot of little intricacies that Pep has in his system. The fact that he uses Silva and DB as pivots and that he sometimes asks the two AMs to stay wide when they don’t have the ball and then work inside when they do.

To top that off you also have the swap instructions he gets his wide players to do which with the pivoting the two central mids do, it makes it really challenging to get this working well. 

I do like like this version of the tactic I created, so much so that two of my saves have this tactic in all its player swapping glory.  There are still things however that can’t be achieved and thanks @Columnarius

I wonder why did you use winger roles for AML and AMR. I think they are more likely inside forwards. They receive the ball close to the touchline like you mentioned. So, stay wider can be a good PI for them. Main purpose of the wingers support the play by crosses. That’s not the Guardiola way I think. 

[Gegenklaus]

20 minutes ago, mkkadi said:

I wonder why did you use winger roles for AML and AMR. I think they are more likely inside forwards. They receive the ball close to the touchline like you mentioned. So, stay wider can be a good PI for them. Main purpose of the wingers support the play by crosses. That’s not the Guardiola way I think. 

Rashidi explained it's because the wide attackers has cut inside player trait. By giving them the wingers role adds more diversion to the attacks.

[priority76]

3 hours ago, Flohrinho said:

I can sure do that but keep in mind that I somewhat tailored it to work with my team and it's not necessarily an exact replication of Pep's tactic, just utilizes some of the concepts as the 5-5 split and trying to always have one more CB than striker on the pitch. I also try to keep a lot of the ball. That being said the tactic is not plug and play in anyway, you constantly need to change the DM role and sometimes need to drop the d-line to slightly lower if you get too many balls over the top. But yeah if you just want to have a look at it I'll attach it to this post.

Gracias!

[Flohrinho]

46 minutes ago, mkkadi said:

I wonder why did you use winger roles for AML and AMR. I think they are more likely inside forwards. They receive the ball close to the touchline like you mentioned. So, stay wider can be a good PI for them. Main purpose of the wingers support the play by crosses. That’s not the Guardiola way I think. 

It is. Watch City closely, Sané usually plays on the left and Sterling on the right, they stay very wide and only starting cutting inside when they are almost on the byline, trying to pass into the back of the defense after that or going for goal themselves. It leaves the two central lanes open for KdB and Silva. On occasion they play like normal inside forwards would but usually that only happens if the WBs pus forward in wide positions. The video I posted above describes these variations really well and tbh the 2-3-2-3 setup is quite ingenious if you think about it. In the system that almost every other team plays the FBs have to cover a lot of ground and make a lot of good decisions when to go forward and when not. The way Guardiola sets them up they are always in a realitvly good position to switch to defense, in a sense Guardiola employs 3 DMs when he uses his inverted wing backs. At to this the two roaming playmakers in KdB and Silva and you have an amazingly system with your best players pulling the strings in almost any phase of playe, great defensive stability and optimal player distribution across the pitch.

[mkkadi]

1 hour ago, Gegenklaus said:

Rashidi explained it's because the wide attackers has cut inside player trait. By giving them the wingers role adds more diversion to the attacks.

It can be a good thing as you said but if you want to create a tactic which represents Guardiola, the role for the AMs should not be wingers. Wingers contradict the way Guardiola plays. 

[Gegenklaus]

36 minutes ago, mkkadi said:

It can be a good thing as you said but if you want to create a tactic which represents Guardiola, the role for the AMs should not be wingers. Wingers contradict the way Guardiola plays. 

it doesn't have to be inside forwards.  City attack the box differently through out a game.

If you have a player with cuts inside player trait he will not play like a traditional winger.

[Flohrinho]

2 hours ago, priority76 said:

Gracias!

Just don't think the tactic is any good. Totally collapsed in the second half of the season.

Tried going with a counter attacking approach after getting repeatedly hit on the counter but didn't solve anything. The tactic is pretty vulnerable to long crosses to the opposite wings, if the opposition has fast wingers they will score with almost every attack. Even putting the IWBs on defense wouldn't fix it.

[argenmik]

1 hour ago, Gegenklaus said:

it doesn't have to be inside forwards.  City attack the box differently through out a game.

If you have a player with cuts inside player trait he will not play like a traditional winger.

totally agree. dont get obsessed with the term wingers. its what they do in the game that matters. if you use inside forwards they will come too narrow and then you have no width. you need to use the wingers so sane and sterling hold the width of the team for as long as possible and then they might dart inside but you can do that through PPMS PIs etc anyway.

im just repeating what Flohrinho said anyway but its true

[yonko]

18 hours ago, Flohrinho said:

I went with counter structured first but that didn't work at all since it was impossible for me to generate any pressure when it came to pressing. So I opted for a more aggressive pressing approach and went with a very low tempo and short passing to compensate for the, like you said too attacking mentality. When I feel like I'm still too risky I switch back to standard or counter.

But yeah it's not a 100% fit, which imo is impossible. You can't even create what de Bruyne is doing as a role. He is everywhere on the pitch, one moment deep between the defenders, the other moment on the right flank, while Sterling pushes inside. It's impossible to play this way in the current match engine I think so you have to make compromises due to what is possible with the match engine and what not.

The thing is that Mentality and Tempo are two different things. One can't compensate for the other. Mentality is risk, tempo is speed of play.

With the current ME you can't get the pressing side of Pep's system right anyway, regardless of mentality. So I wouldn't worry about that.

I would play Counter/Structured with the highest D-Line and Closing Down instructions. 

KDB to me is RPM-S or MEZ-S (Pep changes his role)

[Flohrinho]

21 minutes ago, yonko said:

The thing is that Mentality and Tempo are two different things. One can't compensate for the other. Mentality is risk, tempo is speed of play.

With the current ME you can't get the pressing side of Pep's system right anyway, regardless of mentality. So I wouldn't worry about that.

I would play Counter/Structured with the highest D-Line and Closing Down instructions. 

KDB to me is RPM-S or MEZ-S (Pep changes his role)

In theory I agree but RPM-S is simply a weird role in game as he wanders a lot horizontally and runs into other players constantly. Never really found a good place in a tactic for that. If anything the way Rashidi does it seems to resemble his style the most, a CM with roaming but since he isn't trying to get to every ball, since he is not a play maker, he holds his side of the midfield much better.

 

[Rashidi]

5 hours ago, mkkadi said:

I wonder why did you use winger roles for AML and AMR. I think they are more likely inside forwards. They receive the ball close to the touchline like you mentioned. So, stay wider can be a good PI for them. Main purpose of the wingers support the play by crosses. That’s not the Guardiola way I think. 

Their player traits would have driven them to cut inside anyway. Furthermore, when they swap positions they also swap roles, so what you are seeing isn't entirely the whole picture. So when they swap one guy could be the winger and the other player could be the inside forward. It depends on how you want the whole team to play and how creative you want to get with the whole thing.

[Curtinho]

Hmm...I'm not really sure this encapsulates KdB's role properly, but if I were to lay it out this is how I would do it:

 

Control/Highly Structured: Use Offside Trap, Close Down More, Prevent Short GK Distribution, Exploit the Flanks, Play out of Defence, Retain Possession, Roam from Position

IF (S) -------- SS (A) --------- IF (S)

DLP (S) ------ AP (A)

DM (S)

IWB (S) --- CD (D) --- CD (D) --- IWB (S)

SK (S)

I'm not sure about the DM (S) or the AP (A), but overall I think this is how it would work. Have the IF (S) both set to 'Stay Wider' and have them swap with eachother, the GK should distribute to the CBs. The Exploit the flanks TI is meant to help replicate how they use the wide areas to stretch the defence and play from the outside in attacking but with the playmaker roles in the middle the distribution should still show that those two are the 'heartbeat' of the team so to speak in terms of creativity and attack. I'm not 100% sure about the SS (A) in terms of his role...I like that he starts deeper and attacks space rather than starting higher and dropping deep. I'll probably be giving this a try because I think it's a very interesting system.

 

[Columnarius]

@Rashidi

I really enjoyed the analysis in the following video:

 

I'm not sure I entirely agree with all the aspects of the FM tactic interpretation portion of the video but there are a few things that jump out at me:

1. The prevalence of through-balls
2. The prevalence of counter attacking
3. Getting the balance of how often (and in what phase of the game) to play risky passes forwards vs. play it safe and play back and/or sideways
4. Keeping the ball low / on the ground on crosses
5. Playing with horizontal width to stretch the space between defenders and open passing lanes
6. The importance of tuning such as...
   1. IWB vs. FB
   2. Defend vs. Support vs. Attack for the FB/IWB positions
   3. Adjusting the Defensive Line

The suggestion of using Raumdeuters instead of Wingers is an interesting question.  I admit that I find the winger's play when the player's dominant foot is the same as the side of the field they are on (example: Sterling playing AMR) to be a bit too predictable and one-dimensional.  I think that's mainly down to their dribble wide PI and it results in dribbling into the defense too often and dribbling to the corner too often.

I like the movement off the ball by the Raudeuter.  However, their mentality is a bit too high for me and it causes them to be too far up the field during build-up play. 

In order to address these points, I'm currently trying out the IF Support roles with  the following PIs:

1. Shoot Less Often
2. Tackle Harder
3. Roam from Position
4. Stay Wider
5. Close Down Much More

This analysis (together with @Rashidi's original video) led me to this:

 

I'll report back what I take away but I'm curious if anyone has any takeaways on this alternative to using Wingers.

[Rashidi]

18 hours ago, mkkadi said:

It can be a good thing as you said but if you want to create a tactic which represents Guardiola, the role for the AMs should not be wingers. Wingers contradict the way Guardiola plays. 

In a recent interview with De Bryune, he was asked how Guardiola wanted Sterling and Sane to play and DB added, when he don't have the ball, he wants them to be as wide as possible, when we get the ball stretch and alternate.. There is a lot of positional flexibility in the game when we look at Guardiola's city and I was very impressed with how the interviewer managed to extract that kind of tactical information from DB.

I choose roles in the game based on how they interact with a players traits and how they interact with other roles and duties in the game. I am not fixated on using roles, simply because there is a universal expectation that someone is an F9 or a DLF, you will hardly find a coach specifically telling you what role each player is playing.

[Ji-Sung Park]

A first hand account from one of Pep's victims:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-secrets-and-strengths-of-how-top-teams-play-5jcwnpj3f?shareToken=9541c6bb1907a413ed50ea23ff9602b8

Quote

“The clever thing they do which I’ve not seen before is that the forward, Agüero or Gabriel Jesus, stands 20, 30 yards behind your defensive line, their centre halves will virtually be on their goal-line and they try to stretch you in every direction. If you press high, and everyone is locked in, they may try to kick that long one for the forwards straight away. If you drop off, they play shorter.”

Stretch the oppo to make room. Can it be done in FM? 

[Yoeri]

What do you guys think about the PPM 'likes to play more one-two's' in combination with the tactic?  Does it have impact on the way Pep plays with Man City?

[yonko]

56 minutes ago, Yoeri said:

What do you guys think about the PPM 'likes to play more one-two's' in combination with the tactic?  Does it have impact on the way Pep plays with Man City?

"Plays one-twos" is one of the best PPMs for possession tactic

[yonko]

On December 15, 2017 at 09:28, Flohrinho said:

In theory I agree but RPM-S is simply a weird role in game as he wanders a lot horizontally and runs into other players constantly. Never really found a good place in a tactic for that. If anything the way Rashidi does it seems to resemble his style the most, a CM with roaming but since he isn't trying to get to every ball, since he is not a play maker, he holds his side of the midfield much better.

 

I don't have such problem with the RPM role. It is very dominating role and if using the right player can be very devastating. I'm using Coutinho at Liverpool. I have tried various other roles for the other CM spot without problems - BBM, CM-S or A, Mez-S or A.

[juusal]

A few things you guys might want to consider with the FM roles.

Starting with the AMR/L players. Sane basically is a winger for City, so all the talk about wingers being not the Guardiola way is nonsense if you ask me. What he doesn't do, however, is floated or high crosses into the box, but this can easily be controlled for by choosing cross from byline and low crosses. So Sane would usually be a winger, I would change the duty according to the opponent as the players aren't that flexible to do that themselves in FM. When the opponent is deep, he is positioned out wide to stretch the defence so support duty is appropriate as the attack duty brings him too close to the goal. When the opponent plays a bit higher, attack duty might be better as he gets to use his pace like he does in real life. Sterling, on the other hand, goes sometimes inside, sometimes outside. If he plays on the right I would use him as an inside forward. In FM players like to dribble using their dominant side, so you get some variation with a right footed player playing as an IF on the right. Also I would use PI to stay wider without the ball as Guardiola usually does that to stretch the defence.

For the midfielders, I would use mezzala roles for sure. In FM, midfielders often play really narrow, too narrow in my opinion, and even mezzalas don't play wide enough for my liking. Pep often places his midfielders outside, using as much space as possible. You've all seen the Thierry Henry clip explaining Pep's tactics, right? Plus on FM all playmaker roles not only attract the ball, but drag the playmaker towards the ball. Often this results the playmaker to drift to the opposite side of the pitch, especially with a role like a roaming playmaker. This is not something you really want for a Man City recreation.

Also with the player swaps, I think I disagree with @Rashidi a bit. The players don't swap positions similarly to FM that much, rather Pep often changes their position even at the start of the game for whatever tactical reasons.

For center backs, Pep likes them to open with long passes to advanced midfielders if possible, but on the ground. Unfortunately, this is really difficult to replicate in FM as direct passing results into so many high balls. Long passes on the ground are a rarity in FM, even when there are no oppositions close to cut the passes.

Oh and a general note on Pep's City. They are the best team at counter attacking I have seen in a long time. With Barca and even with Bayern Pep's teams didn't have so many quick transitions as now. Often they attack with a lot of pace immediately after winning the ball, like for example in De Bruynes goal against Spurs.

[Columnarius]

2 hours ago, juusal said:

For center backs, Pep likes them to open with long passes to advanced midfielders if possible, but on the ground. Unfortunately, this is really difficult to replicate in FM as direct passing results into so many high balls. Long passes on the ground are a rarity in FM, even when there are no oppositions close to cut the passes.

This is a really interesting point.  I don't think this long passes on the ground is something we can easily replicate. 

I remember a long long time ago (in FM08 or so?), you could instruct players to play the ball to the feet (as opposed to the head) of a target man...

[ferrarinseb]

I would like to give my Opinion

Shape :

I think i would just say that Pep Style would be replicated with Highly structured or Structured shape than Fluid and higher ,Pep style is completely based on having enough space with higher shapes we make it less and less and players will be close so that they cant use space effectively.

Mentality :

Also they use most of times to counter so mentality is defined but you can go to standard but not more than that as that will make the teams to commit more which would make the team to be quite prone to AI super quick counter attacks , From a Testing point of view having higher mentality means more risks which gave me the feeling of Quantity rather than Quality. With less Risky mentality they still take enough risks but most of them turn out to be quality one's.

Formation : 

4-1-2-3

Roles and Duties :

i) Goal Keeper : Its no brainier as we saw since his Barcelona team he prefers Sweeper Keeper who is good with feet and has the good vision who rush only when required instead of rushing unnecessarily. 

                                SK(S)

ii) Defence :

  Wings (LB &RB) : For a Base Both Left and Right are Wing backs in Support Duty. He often start Walker(RB) on Attack duty but for the base i choose both on Support Duty, he often changes Delph to IWB (D) to create 3 man counter for opposition forwards instead of only having 2 Defenders to counter

  Central Defenders : He likes to play out from Defense but having BPD means that they choose to riskier passes which makes it negate to the TI of Play out of Defense, But some times you need that BPD to make one risky pass so one BPD who has good vision or OK vision and one CD who can bring the ball from defense, hence BPD and CD both on Defense.

WB(S)       CD(D)          BPD(D)      WB(S)

iii) Mid Field :

Defensive Midfielder : This is for me given the Busquets and Xabi Alonso roles and the recent Ferna play style it reflects Half back, Still we can use DM(S) but Half back is the role in FM we can replicate.

Central Midfielders : The 2 CM's are Mezzala's on Support Duty so that they wont go too forward with DM(S) or HB making the short passing to one of Mezzala's they will decide what kind of passing is required and they will dictate the whole show like KDB or Silva doing right now. or Xavi and Iniesta did. To an extent KDB and Silva are looking like pure Mez than Xavi and Iniesta where i feel they are only DLP and AP.

                            HB(D)

              MEZ(S)             MEZ(S)

iv) Forward :                                     

Wings (AMR & AML)  : In General he deploys both as Wingers to help out with passes into box some times low crosses some times Whipped. but since his Bayern stint he defined the role Raumdeutuer who is space investigator with Thomas Muller, He finds space and makes crucial pass/ cross. he uses Sterling as Winger and Raumdeutuer often to bring the ball into box. Sane though out right winger he just able to bypass the Defenders due to his sheer speed and makes himself available for the long passes from Silva or KDB

Attacking Midfielder (AMC) : Pep used Messi as False 9 but i prefer Shadow Striker over False 9 due to the reasons stated in the below link. Also this way i can have the Forward line a bit empty with no striker and we can use that space by going forward rather than occupying that space and asking the striker to track back to vacate that space. 

             For a Base i prefer 

                         W(S)                SS(A)                 W(A) 

Putting entire team 

                                    SK(S)

        WB(S)       CD(D)          BPD(D)      WB(S)

                                    HB(D)

                        MEZ(S)             MEZ(S)

         W(S)                   SS(A)                   W(A) 

 

Mentality : Counter 

Shape  : Structured

Team Instructions :                                                                        

                                        Play out of Defense 

                                        Shorter Passing

                                        Close down much more .

                                        Work the ball into box ( I generally wont prefer it but often times we see that players having unnecessary long shots despite using TI of Shoot less often , by                                               sing this they atleast  reduce that unnecessary shots which makes you loose possession)

  Player Instructions : 

                                        SK(S) : Distribute quickly / take short kicks / Distribute to Full backs or CD 

                                        CD & BPD : Close down much less , this is must as if not they will just get yellow card after yellow card most of times 

                                        WB(S) : for both Stay wide / Run wide with ball / Close down less / Tackle harder 

                                                      Tackling harder should be removed for players who has the Con of has a competitive streak as they will tend to get yellow cards and perhaps a red                                                             card in first offense

                                       HB(D) :   Tackle harder / Fewer risky passes ( if he was wasting possession by using unnecessary passes ) 

                                       Mez (S) : More Risky passes , I want them to be creative and if they sense an option to unlock the defense you need to them to find more risky passes

                                       W(S) : Shoot less often / Tackle harder / Get Further forward 

                                       W(A) : Shoot less often / Tackle harder 

                                                      I choose to give them the Shoot less often because they make rash shooting as soon as they arrive into box. 

                                        SS(A) : Tackle harder.                                                 

[ferrarinseb]

On 12/15/2017 at 12:18, Rashidi said:

There are a lot of little intricacies that Pep has in his system. The fact that he uses Silva and DB as pivots and that he sometimes asks the two AMs to stay wide when they don’t have the ball and then work inside when they do.

To top that off you also have the swap instructions he gets his wide players to do which with the pivoting the two central mids do, it makes it really challenging to get this working well. 

I do like like this version of the tactic I created, so much so that two of my saves have this tactic in all its player swapping glory.  There are still things however that can’t be achieved and thanks @Columnarius

Isn't that can be partially replicated by using Inside forwards in Winger role so that they stay wide with out ball and cut inside when they had it?

[Rashidi]

4 hours ago, juusal said:

Also with the player swaps, I think I disagree with @Rashidi a bit.

I swap players cos its just a way for me to get some variety in their attacks. Like I've said before, there are some things we can do and others that are impossible.

[Rashidi]

1 minute ago, ferrarinseb said:

Isn't that can be partially replicated by using Inside forwards in Winger role so that they stay wide with out ball and cut inside when they had it?

You fail to understand what I am trying to say....these players have player traits that override player instructions, hence my decision to use them as Wingers, which will add a slightly different dimension to their game play. If I use them as IFs they will play as IFs when in reality they are more than just IFs in the game.

[ferrarinseb]

1 minute ago, Rashidi said:

You fail to understand what I am trying to say....these players have player traits that override player instructions, hence my decision to use them as Wingers, which will add a slightly different dimension to their game play. If I use them as IFs they will play as IFs when in reality they are more than just IFs in the game.

Ah i agree, I do the same and i know we can't 100% replicate the Pep style in particular phases. Some times we see his Wide Attackers play like wingers but next moment they act as IF or Raumdeutuer.

[argenmik]

6 hours ago, ferrarinseb said:

Ah i agree, I do the same and i know we can't 100% replicate the Pep style in particular phases. Some times we see his Wide Attackers play like wingers but next moment they act as IF or Raumdeutuer.

isnt this just football. no one goes to Messi, today i want you to play as a False 9 but sometimes as a Complete Forward. you select the role you want and the PIs and PPMs do the rest plus decision making and stats like this. you cant physically instruct them to do everything

[yonko]

15 hours ago, juusal said:

Oh and a general note on Pep's City. They are the best team at counter attacking I have seen in a long time. With Barca and even with Bayern Pep's teams didn't have so many quick transitions as now. Often they attack with a lot of pace immediately after winning the ball, like for example in De Bruynes goal against Spurs.

That's because with Barca and Bayern there were less opportunities to counterattack, due to the fact that those clubs have higher reputations and teams set up more defensively against them, with or without Pep as their coach.

For now, teams still play more open against City. But my guess is not for long. Soon we will see more teams do what Huddersfield and Southampton did.

However, I will acknowledge the fact that this City set up has more dynamism than Pep's Barca and Bayern set ups. And the big reason for that is KDB, Sane and Sterling.

[Cam8]

I've gone with WM(A) and modified PIs to replicate the way Sane and Sterling play. I find the Winger role too wasteful in possession, as they just run wide and cross aimlessly. 

[Curtinho]

2 hours ago, yonko said:

That's because with Barca and Bayern there were less opportunities to counterattack, due to the fact that those clubs have higher reputations and teams set up more defensively against them, with or without Pep as their coach.

For now, teams still play more open against City. But my guess is not for long. Soon we will see more teams do what Huddersfield and Southampton did.

However, I will acknowledge the fact that this City set up has more dynamism than Pep's Barca and Bayern set ups. And the big reason for that is KDB, Sane and Sterling.

Is this really true? City has pretty much the same level of possession as both Barcelona and Bayern did (slightly more than Barca, slightly less than Bayern) when Pep was coaching them. Especially since England is a league where 'surviving' an attacking side and being a 'valiant, steadfast' defensive squad is celebrated I really doubt that he has more opportunities to counterattack in England than in Germany or Spain where they actually, often enough, at least try to play football.

[yonko]

5 minutes ago, Curtinho said:

Is this really true? City has pretty much the same level of possession as both Barcelona and Bayern did (slightly more than Barca, slightly less than Bayern) when Pep was coaching them. Especially since England is a league where 'surviving' an attacking side and being a 'valiant, steadfast' defensive squad is celebrated I really doubt that he has more opportunities to counterattack in England than in Germany or Spain where they actually, often enough, at least try to play football.

How much possession did Barca and Bayern M averaged when Pep was their coach? Do you have the stats for that?

I've watched majority of the matches of all 3 clubs when Pep was their coach. And I saw more games for Barca and Bayern like City had with Huddersfield and Southampton. 

[juusal]

4 hours ago, yonko said:

That's because with Barca and Bayern there were less opportunities to counterattack, due to the fact that those clubs have higher reputations and teams set up more defensively against them, with or without Pep as their coach.

For now, teams still play more open against City. But my guess is not for long. Soon we will see more teams do what Huddersfield and Southampton did.

However, I will acknowledge the fact that this City set up has more dynamism than Pep's Barca and Bayern set ups. And the big reason for that is KDB, Sane and Sterling.

Maybe so, but my comment was purely to note the situations. Pep's Barca had much less counter attacking urgency than his City team when they had the chance to do so. Also Bayern the season before he came in charge was much more faster in attacks and looked for more counter attacks than with Guardiola.

I agree that especially Sane is key here with his pace, and also Sterling and Aguero who play up top are much pacier than Lewandowski, and Messi often came towards the ball even on counter attacks where sometimes he probably should have made runs past the line.

[juusal]

1 hour ago, yonko said:

How much possession did Barca and Bayern M averaged when Pep was their coach? Do you have the stats for that?

I've watched majority of the matches of all 3 clubs when Pep was their coach. And I saw more games for Barca and Bayern like City had with Huddersfield and Southampton. 

His Barcelona side was sometimes so dominant it was crazy. Anyway, I checked whoscored and in the league seasons he averaged 64-68% in his seasons at Barca, Bayern around 64-66% every season, City last season ~61% last season and just shy of 66% this season.

[goqs06]

I'd say that these are the team instructions for Pep's City this season:

Team shape: Fluid - I believe that Pep is a follower of Total Football, where all outfielders are expected to fluidly interchange positions in order to maintain the formation (4-3-3)

e.g. There have been instances of Sterling taking the place of Walker when the latter presses the opponent, essentially covering him

You may argue that Pep's Juego de Posicion may contradict this, but I'll explain later.

Mentality: Standard/ Counter

On 12/19/2017 at 14:49, ferrarinseb said:

Mentality :

Also they use most of times to counter so mentality is defined but you can go to standard but not more than that as that will make the teams to commit more which would make the team to be quite prone to AI super quick counter attacks , From a Testing point of view having higher mentality means more risks which gave me the feeling of Quantity rather than Quality. With less Risky mentality they still take enough risks but most of them turn out to be quality one's.                                

4

I agree with this.

 

Higher Tempo

Pep's teams have always played quick football.

 

Play Wider (Fairly wide in fm18)

They like to stretch the play and utilize width with Wingers and Mezzalas exploiting the half-spaces. 

 

Much higher defensive line

They press higher up on the pitch. They usually regain possession in these areas.

 

Close down more

As aforementioned above, City like to press a lot but not too much.

 

Play out of defence

Prevalent in Pep's sides including Barcelona, playing out slowly from the back

 

Pass into space

Utilisation of space via through passes.

 

Shorter Passing + Retain Possession

They go together and fit Pep's style, utilizing possession but not for the sake of having it. (He hates the term "tiki-taka" associated with him!) Juego de Posición under Pep Guardiola

 

Be more expressive

Allows his players to exhibit more creativity.

 

Stick to positions

The team must maintain their base formation thus they must not be allowed to roam around too much.

 

Work ball into box

City's players are instructed to be patient in their approach to scoring goals. Rarely do they score goals from long shots.

 

 

[gpassosbh]

Anyone got any success trying to replicating this?

[Lobaeux4]

I’ve started my third season at AC Milan attempting to replicate Pep’s tactical philosophy, moving from Sarri’s Napoli tactics after winning the Scudetto the first two years  

Admittedly I have some great players, not City quality, but great players for Serie A and we’re top of the table.  Our hiccups come when I rest my starters so..... my assumption is, the tactic is pretty good, the philosophy is great, but I’m thinking the ME would produce similar results with any sound tactic and the players I have. 

[Flohrinho]

19 hours ago, gpassosbh said:

Anyone got any success trying to replicating this?

I had a look at Kyanite's attempt to recreate it and I have to say he comes pretty close to how they play IRL while still working well within the current match engine.

 

 

[gpassosbh]

7 hours ago, Flohrinho said:

I had a look at Kyanite's attempt to recreate it and I have to say he comes pretty close to how they play IRL while still working well within the current match engine.

 

 

Thanks for this @Flohrinho. I had a look at the video and will try to implement this in a save.

One point is, when use IWB and when use FB?
Also, can I switch AP (A) for a MEZ (A or S)?

Thanks