Help! 4-1-2-2-1 is killing me...

[RBKalle]

As I've posted in GD already, I'm struggling big time to get a result against sides playing 4-1-2-2-1 Wide.

I'm Sampdoria, so we're midtable, and I expected to struggle against top clubs, but that very formation has been punishing me even when it's employed by teams around my level (Sassuolo) or even bottom-feeders like SPAL and Benevento (actually the latter have been overachieving with that tactic, in a rather unrealistic way, I may add).

Originally I was playing 4-1-2-1-2 DM-AM Narrow, but my AssMan kept on insisting plain old 4-4-2 was better (despite us not having competent wingers or even wide players). Then I tried to fight fire with fire and went for the elusive 4-1-2-2-1 Wide as well, with barely acceptable results, considering lower familiarity and the inherent lack of natural AMR/AMLs.

Mentality ranged from Counter to Control, with Structured shape.

Basically I've been throwing crap to the wall to see what was sticking, and nothing has worked... I think I've replayed the matches against Benevento and Sassuolo 10 times each, and ultimately I had to holiday to get the best of Benevento just to move on, and against Sassuolo the best I got was a draw.

Things used to be tolerable on 18.0.1 and 0.2, but since 0.3 that specific formation has become a nightmare, and nothing I do seem to work. Am I really an awful manager or is the 4-1-2-2-1 a bit overpowered?

How do I stop being steamrolled by every crappy team as long as they employ that doggone formation?

[jc577]

We can’t really help you without knowing your full tactical set-up, but naturally playing the 442 diamond against a 433 obviously leaves you vulnerable on the flanks, which makes it imperative that your two wide CMs have good positioning, workrate, anticipation, tackling etc. I’m no tactical genius by any means but post show screen shots and i’m sure me (and others) will take a look.

[Marc.Foster050]

Had the same kind of issue with a save last year. Was a good mid table side and Burnley ended up coming 5th and beating all the big teams in the process using a 4-2-3-1 but with the 3 in a narrow set up. I didn't have a clue how to counter it. In the end I developed a 3-2-4-1 that I used only against them which worked and the season after they changed formation! I like the fact that the AI finds a formation that works for them and you have to counter it but agree with jc577 without seeing how you have set up its hard to say why you may struggle against this system exactly.

[ham_aka_stam]

I find I have to make my FBs a bit more defensively aware against any formation with AMR & AML because if they push their FBs up there's a distinct chance of getting doubled up on.

However because I generally play AMR and AML, I can fight fire with fire and punish them down the wings on the counter if they do.

Is that's what's happening for you?

If so you need to play to your strengths, i.e. numbers in the midfield, Strikers roaming and stretching their CBs, and the defensive stability your DM gives you. I'd ensure you've got WBd or FBs on your FBs, ensure your DM is in a holding role like Anchorman, Halfback or DMd

Something else I like to do is have an APs in the AM position, he'll drop deep for the ball, dragging their DM around and creating space for your STs, and then I'd try a couple of CMa behind him to make runs through the middle.  I'd even consider playing 2 x AF up front to move their CBs around and create space for the runners.

But like others have said, show us your current set-up or some details of the exact issues you're facing.

[RBKalle]

Here are the 3 main formations I use.

Keep in mind the wide players for the MR/ML and AMR/AMR positions are the best roles/duties I have at the moment, and not a single one of them is "natural", so my options there are limited both in terms of quality and of quantity.

A wingless formation would be the best option, as the squad is clearly heavy on DMC/MC/AMC, but currently FM18 doesn't seem to favour that style. Or I totally suck at it...

 

As you can see in the Analysis, plain 4-4-2 works better against stronger and weaker sides, while 4-4-2 DM (not featured) did ok against similar sides (7:3), but gets absolutely annihilated against stronger teams (1-7) and is just passable against weaker sides (2-1).

 

[kandersson]

First of all I'll say Benevento is a beast in FM18 for some reason, in three test saves I've played they tend to stay between 7th and 10th position... not quite like their real life counterpart I believe...

As for your formations, I'd think a couple of choices might be a little too cautious: with two strikers I'd definitely  go for one attack duty (support might go better for the single TM). Also in the diamond I'll keep both WB's on support (maybe one on attack against smaller sides) as they're your only wide support.  A pure runner from midfield could also prove useful (maybe Linetty as CM/a?) and personally I'd use the more creative Torreira on support with hard man Barreto on defend. Also my personal preference would be using a 4-3-1-2 instead of diamond as I always feel it gives better wide cover in a wingerless formation.

My two cents, anyway I can confirm strange things happen in my Serie A saves...

[ham_aka_stam]

In your preferred diamond you've got no attack roles at all?!

Get at least one of the STs on Attack, and at least one of the CMs.

As discussed above, I'd be tempted to go for both of both, using a DMd to cover for the CMs and keeping your APa to link play between the two strata.