FM18 Regens

[DimitriFromParis]

19 minutes ago, Saevel said:

Regens look shockingly bad. The development over the last 2 years baffles me.

I don't really understand the criteria of the people who think this year is better than the last. Solely that the variation is better? 

The shading bug is now a permanent feature, and it looks like it's impossible to use 2D hair graphics- we're stuck with the horrible 3D hair models.

 

I just don't understand the decisions made at all.

"Regens look phenomenal" 

[torsportsfan]

How are they attribute wise? Do they still have footedness and position issues? Defenders with low jumping etc?

 

Seems like the development code for Newgens gets carried over from year to year

[MrPompey]

On 10/13/2017 at 18:14, trickz said:

Is it confirmed that Regens are getting fixed in the next version (18)? I'm basically talking about how in the 17 version the regens are either: bald or almost completely bald at the age of 14 or they look like aliens from the XXXII century (enormous forehead, messed up proportions, low quality haircuts, 1000 yard stare etc.).

 

What I'm referring to:

I really don't know what the fuss is about. Its obvious to me what has happened, let me explain

Sex God Pierluigi Collina (the famous ref) has been a bit of a ladies man. Travels all over the world have resulted in his off spring now coming of football age. Alas Collina was not known for his good looks or his hair so the regens reflect this  FM has been coded to reflect this aspect

When you look at their estranged father a little closer its easy to see a likeness:

 

[ben carter]

The left hand one looks excellent. If something like that were possible in the next FM it would be a really big step forward for me.   

[*CR7*]

did not see this post so posted it in a new. but i will repost it here then. what is the sports interactive visual team doing? why is the newest faces uglier than the oldest?

[CFuller]

@DimitriFromParis Where did those images you linked to come from, by any chance?

[Whatawaster95]

7 minutes ago, *CR7* said:

did not see this post so posted it in a new. but i will repost it here then. what is the sports interactive visual team doing? why is the newest faces uglier than the oldest?

Wow, that just shows the massive backwards step this year. 

[KUBI]

1 minute ago, Whatawaster95 said:

Wow, that just shows the massive backwards step this year. 

Compared to 2017? You can't be serious.

[CFuller]

5 minutes ago, *CR7* said:

did not see this post so posted it in a new. but i will repost it here then. what is the sports interactive visual team doing? why is the newest faces uglier than the oldest?

I wouldn't say that today's newgens are any uglier than FM08's. The technology used to make the faces nowadays is vastly different, and leads to more variety in the faces. In the long run, that can surely only be a good thing.

To be honest, I reckon whoever created that image probably picked nine palatable-looking guys from FM08-FM16, a shocker from FM17, and a pale guy from FM18, just to 'make a point'.

What I really want to see is a load of newgen faces from FM08. I'm sure you won't see much variety in how they look, certainly not compared to FM16 at least.

[canry]

8 minutes ago, *CR7* said:

did not see this post so posted it in a new. but i will repost it here then. what is the sports interactive visual team doing? why is the newest faces uglier than the oldest?

08-15 nice, 16 not bad, 17 and 18 very bad

[Dimitri_87]

2 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I wouldn't say that today's newgens are any uglier than FM08's. The technology used to make the faces nowadays is vastly different, and leads to more variety in the faces. In the long run, that can surely only be a good thing.

To be honest, I reckon whoever created that image probably picked nine palatable-looking guys from FM08-FM16, a shocker from FM17, and a pale guy from FM18, just to 'make a point'.

What I really want to see is a load of newgen faces from FM08. I'm sure you won't see much variety in how they look, certainly not compared to FM16 at least.

Ok for variety..but in 10 years we certainly got worse textures. Thats unbelievable...10 years guys..

[KUBI]

I did replace facegen in the last two editions and even if I could this year, I would not. It's a massive improvement in my opinion. You need to load custom lower leagues and tick "add players to team" to see the difference. Of course, there could be more variety in haircuts. But the faces itselfs are looking good. Facegen turned from 2-D to 3-D this year, so this is the start of a new area. 

[DimitriFromParis]

2 minutes ago, CFuller said:

I wouldn't say that today's newgens are any uglier than FM08's. The technology used to make the faces nowadays is vastly different, and leads to more variety in the faces. In the long run, that can surely only be a good thing.

To be honest, I reckon whoever created that image probably picked nine palatable-looking guys from FM08-FM16, a shocker from FM17, and a pale guy from FM18, just to 'make a point'.

What I really want to see is a load of newgen faces from FM08. I'm sure you won't see much variety in how they look, certainly not compared to FM16 at least.

If you mean this picture, i got it from Debski's FB group. He gave some examples on how poor the faces still look, by using some random open source face creation tool of the web, and added his hairs, just to make a point.

In regards of the picture with the regens all the way from 10 years back up until now, that actually shows exactly what i mean. The paleness of the FM18 player, looks completely fake an cartoonish. Should be like the on on FM13 or 12 - that's a normal looking white skin colour. But those are details. I'm more shocked about the poor quality. FM17 looked like aliens. FM18 that has changed, but now the texture and skin looks like something worse than the skin all the way up to this years release. Even the ones back in 08 looks better, texture wise - much more smooth and clean to look at. I think that that line of pictures represents the way regens have changed pretty damn spot on tbo! And what a shame it is to say that....

 

[CFuller]

3 minutes ago, KUBI said:

I did replace facegen in the last two editions and even if I could this year, I would not. It's a massive improvement in my opinion. You need to load custom lower leagues and tick "add players to team" to see the difference. Of course, there could be more variety in haircuts. But the faces itselfs are looking good. Facegen turned from 2-D to 3-D this year, so this is the start of a new area. 

Indeed. A few users here seem to be missing the point. Sure, FM18's 3D newgens may not look as pretty as 2D faces to some of them, but this is a positive step towards having more realistic-looking players in future games.

[KUBI]

2 minutes ago, DimitriFromParis said:

The paleness of the FM18 player, looks completely fake an cartoonish.

I think this could be adjusted in later builds.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, KUBI said:

I think this could be adjusted in later builds.

 

There's something wrong with the way the graphics are generated. My manager face looks haggard, pale and seriously ill, like someone who has been on a heavy drug binge for at least a decade. It's awful. FM2017 was a lot better, even if it wasn't good.

[Wavelberry]

I really like the FM17 ones. They were freaks but they were my beautiful freaks dammit.

[DimitriFromParis]

1 minute ago, KUBI said:

I think this could be adjusted in later builds.

I agree the variation of faces is better, and they look more human like now than on 17. But why is the texture and lighting "so bad". It reminds me of the bug on FM17 like i stated before. Just now it is permanent, on all players, all the time?

[KUBI]

1 minute ago, DimitriFromParis said:

I agree the variation of faces is better, and they look more human like now than on 17. But why is the texture and lighting "so bad". It reminds me of the bug on FM17 like i stated before. Just now it is permanent, on all players, all the time?

This is probably something that could be adjusted in the two config files --->sifacegen --> configs.

Maybe worth try it.

[*CR7*]

what

10 minutes ago, KUBI said:

I did replace facegen in the last two editions and even if I could this year, I would not. It's a massive improvement in my opinion. You need to load custom lower leagues and tick "add players to team" to see the difference. Of course, there could be more variety in haircuts. But the faces itselfs are looking good. Facegen turned from 2-D to 3-D this year, so this is the start of a new area. 

what do you mean 3d? its just the same angle 2d picture like it always have been. are they being used in matches or? even as 3d they should be much better compared to other games around.

[KUBI]

Just now, *CR7* said:

what

what do you mean 3d? its just the same angle 2d picture like it always have been. are they being used in matches or? even as 3d they should be much better compared to other games around.

The faces are generated in 3-D, that's the reason why all the old regen replacement pictures and hair do not work anymore.

[Ruh Roh]

I've seen screenshots from people over the last two years where the shading and contrast just looks different from my game - not even better or worse, I don't get it. I'm sure it has something to do with graphics cards but it's not like I'm running either top of the line or a potato.

The faces look much better, though - to go into weird regen race science, I'm sure they'll fix the pale white dudes and the black dudes with blue eyes. Hispanic faces look better than they've ever looked in the whole series.

[*CR7*]

Just now, KUBI said:

The faces are generated in 3-D, that's the reason why all the old regen replacement pictures and hair do not work anymore.

and how were they generated before?

[McClane29]

30 minutes ago, KUBI said:

The faces are generated in 3-D, that's the reason why all the old regen replacement pictures and hair do not work anymore.

I really struggle to understand why SI are so eager to implement faces in 3D. Obviously it is for the benefit of the 3D match engine (for those who use it), but you're never going to be able to see the face of a player or manager close enough to identify them as the person in the in-game profile.

Unless a future FM shows close-ups of players like on real TV or FIFA etc, then this is a really pointless move and the rest of the game is suffering as a result.

[KUBI]

Just now, McClane29 said:

Unless a future FM shows close-ups of players like on real TV or FIFA etc

That's the point, I think. Developers have to make decisions for the future, for the next 2,3, even 5 years. This could be one of them.

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, *CR7* said:

did not see this post so posted it in a new. but i will repost it here then. what is the sports interactive visual team doing? why is the newest faces uglier than the oldest?

I think this illustrates just how the artwork has deteriated.  The regens fron FM11 and FM12 are almost photo realistic.  The artwork in FM18 is appalling from the regens to the crowd to the stadiums.  I believe SI use an outside studio to do the artwork, I don't know who did that work on earlier versions, but I think SI should employ them again as Football manager deserves better.

[McClane29]

24 minutes ago, KUBI said:

That's the point, I think. Developers have to make decisions for the future, for the next 2,3, even 5 years. This could be one of them.

Then I would say Football Manager is going in the wrong direction.

The game will never be able to compete in the graphics department, so why change so much to achieve so little? Although I am enjoying FM18 so far, there isn't much new this year I'm impressed with. If it's not broken, don't change it - i.e. Manager photo, regen faces, 2D match engine.

[trickz]

Looks like my answer was answered and the regen faces still look like crap. It blows my mind how a single person can make a better newgen face with A FREE SOFTWARE than an entire gaming studio, just shows how lazy SI really is and how little they care about their fans. Regen faces issues have been addressed numerous of times since FM16 and they never cared, yeah you could argue that this year they are better but just because they are better doesn't mean they are good.

 

But that is to expect, FM doesn't have competition on the market, there isn't another big football management game, so they don't need to worry since people will their game since they don't really have any option.

 

First time in years for me too that I won't buy FM and if things continue like this I will abandon the franchise completly. 

 

Best regards.

[Tony Wright 747]

7 hours ago, trickz said:

Looks like my answer was answered and the regen faces still look like crap. It blows my mind how a single person can make a better newgen face with A FREE SOFTWARE than an entire gaming studio, just shows how lazy SI really is and how little they care about their fans. Regen faces issues have been addressed numerous of times since FM16 and they never cared, yeah you could argue that this year they are better but just because they are better doesn't mean they are good.

 

But that is to expect, FM doesn't have competition on the market, there isn't another big football management game, so they don't need to worry since people will their game since they don't really have any option.

 

First time in years for me too that I won't buy FM and if things continue like this I will abandon the franchise completly. 

 

Best regards.

Another very good post, perhaps identifying the problem the game has

[themadsheep2001]

Apart from the fact the post is full of misconduct 

The artwork has changes from 2D to 3D to enable better long term modelling. It's not a one or a two year job. It's about combining all the modelling in the game to one concept so that it can all be improved over time, it's long term iterative development

Now we've got that out of the way, keep the personal digs out, or moderation will follow 

 

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Apart from the fact the post is full of misconduct 

The artwork has changes from 2D to 3D to enable better long term modelling. It's not a one or a two year job. It's about combining all the modelling in the game to one concept so that it can all be improved over time, it's long term iterative development

Now we've got that out of the way, keep the personal digs out, or moderation will follow 

 

Apart from the statement that SI dont care about their fans' which I dont beleive is true, I cannot see any other evidence of misconduct.  The poster is just expressing an opinion that has been shared by a number of forum users about the lack of competition.  Any organisation, whether it is a government, a bank or a games studio needs realistic competition to thrive.  Your own statement that the modelling is a long term development, with more competition this would probably be a shorter period, as competition can really focus the mind

[themadsheep2001]

3 minutes ago, Tony Wright 747 said:

Apart from the statement that SI dont care about their fans' which I dont beleive is true, I cannot see any other evidence of misconduct.  The poster is just expressing an opinion that has been shared by a number of forum users about the lack of competition.  Any organisation, whether it is a government, a bank or a games studio needs realistic competition to thrive.  Your own statement that the modelling is a long term development, with more competition this would probably be a shorter period, as competition can really focus the mind

Eh? I wasn't talking directing to him on that part, thanks.

The idea that competition can often sharpen the mind is a misnomer, often bandied about with very little supporting evidence, especially when one has absolutely no idea of the mindset of individual employees. What you're actually doing is passing judgement on the motivation on people you don't actually know.

[enigmatic]

It is possible to think that SI's motives with 3D regen faces are pure as the driven snow and realise that procedurally generated faces from a wide set of options are sometimes going to be weird and still be baffled by the frankly bizarre allocation of hairstyles and scary eyes in the last couple of versions compared with the 2D ones, which weren't perfect, but weren't consistently ridiculous looking.

[themadsheep2001]

2 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

It is possible to think that SI's motives with 3D regen faces are pure as the driven snow and realise that procedurally generated faces from a wide set of options are sometimes going to be weird and still be baffled by the frankly bizarre allocation of hairstyles and scary eyes in the last couple of versions compared with the 2D ones, which weren't perfect, but weren't consistently ridiculous looking.

I agree, and I don't think anyone would disagree they can be improved. But sometimes it's not some big overarching drama about complacency and competition. Sometimes it just needs more work

[Tony Wright 747]

14 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

Eh? I wasn't talking directing to him on that part, thanks.

The idea that competition can often sharpen the mind is a misnomer, often bandied about with very little supporting evidence, especially when one has absolutely no idea of the mindset of individual employees. What you're actually doing is passing judgement on the motivation on people you don't actually know.

I am afraid that I am going to disagree with you completely on this one.  As a lecturer on business management for many years I would concur that your idea that the lack of competition is a misnomer is wrong, there is a raft of evidence out there to prove that case, it is one of the reasons that you often find for example all the travel agents, all the shoe shops in a small area of a town.

 

I was not passing judgement on the mindset or the motivation of any individual employee, I don't profess to know all the science behind the theory that competition improves performance I just believe that it does

[Guest]

2 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

The artwork has changes from 2D to 3D to enable better long term modelling. It's not a one or a two year job. It's about combining all the modelling in the game to one concept so that it can all be improved over time, it's long term iterative development

 

This is a valid point. However, my response to it is simple: I'm not going to pay for that development if the intermediate results are poor. And I'm saying this calmly and without complaint. I was away from the game after FM2013, and I came back for FM2017. I was astonished by how little the match engine had changed for the better, and the regen faces were very poor. Yesterday, I tried the demo for a very short while, realized it wasn't worth it and made my decision.

 

FM is the best there is, but sometimes the differences between releases just aren't worth the money.

[KUBI]

I made some modifications in the config file to change the look of the newgens and making them less pale:

 

 

[Saevel]

So, if the game uses 3d-modelling the same way as it uses for managers now, why is the quality so much poorer than on the manager model?

It looks like there's no "filter" applied to the model, kind of the same way the regens in FM 2017 bugged out graphically after matches. Can we expect this in a future patch for FM2018? The regens in FM 2017 are STILL bugged, they were never fixed, so the track record is not particularly good- and a statement from SI here would be nice.

 

Also, I strongly agree with what others have said: If the technology is THIS bad at this point, then it should not have been implemented this year. Much better to wait until next year, when it's been improved to a less embarrassing level. 

[flogside]

On 11/10/2017 at 22:29, KUBI said:

I did replace facegen in the last two editions and even if I could this year, I would not. It's a massive improvement in my opinion. You need to load custom lower leagues and tick "add players to team" to see the difference. Of course, there could be more variety in haircuts. But the faces itselfs are looking good. Facegen turned from 2-D to 3-D this year, so this is the start of a new area. 

With the greatest of respect KUBI, thats a ridiculous statement. Yes its your opinion so fair enough in that regard but you genuinely believe its a massive improvement? 

*CR7* picture clearly shows that the regen face from 08 was far better than this years edition. And you can actually see an obvious decline in quality pretty much every year. I mean this years faces are just shockingly bad and with next to no hairstyles and now no option for us to even add in mods to make them better? I honestly dont get some of the decisions SI make sometimes. I really think they pretty much solely concentrate on 3d match engine (which is still terrible) and next to nothing else.

Ive said it before and ill say it again, what SI needs is a serious competitor in the football management market because this game has stagnated in so many areas for years and now it seems its even managed to go backwards as far as regen faces are concerned.

So when will these *improved* faces be able to have mods added to them?

[flogside]

On 11/11/2017 at 03:00, trickz said:

Looks like my answer was answered and the regen faces still look like crap. It blows my mind how a single person can make a better newgen face with A FREE SOFTWARE than an entire gaming studio, just shows how lazy SI really is and how little they care about their fans. Regen faces issues have been addressed numerous of times since FM16 and they never cared, yeah you could argue that this year they are better but just because they are better doesn't mean they are good.

 

But that is to expect, FM doesn't have competition on the market, there isn't another big football management game, so they don't need to worry since people will their game since they don't really have any option.

 

First time in years for me too that I won't buy FM and if things continue like this I will abandon the franchise completly. 

 

Best regards.

Couldnt agree more. Ive thought this for years now. No competition means they can do what they like as people will buy the game as its the only playable football management game about. They are obsessed with 3D - the match engine and now for some reason the regens are in *3d*.......baffling.

Seriously need a new competitor to get into the market. The SI database is 2nd to none and it still have excellent features of course but for me its been in decline ever since 2010 and i just dont see it picking up what with the direction the company is clearly trying to go in, which seems to be trying to compete with the Fifa series graphics wise even though its a management sim.

[Tony Wright 747]

1 hour ago, flogside said:

Couldnt agree more. Ive thought this for years now. No competition means they can do what they like as people will buy the game as its the only playable football management game about. They are obsessed with 3D - the match engine and now for some reason the regens are in *3d*.......baffling.

Seriously need a new competitor to get into the market. The SI database is 2nd to none and it still have excellent features of course but for me its been in decline ever since 2010 and i just dont see it picking up what with the direction the company is clearly trying to go in, which seems to be trying to compete with the Fifa series graphics wise even though its a management sim.

I would tend to agree with that, SI and the mods can come on here as much as they like and say that SI will always try and make the best game possible, and whilst that may be completely true, flogside is also right in that some people will still buy the game in whatever state it is in because there is no other acceptable management game to buy.  In the early years there was a raft of football management games to buy, driving the development forward, unfortunately Eidos and EA gave up, I don't know if it was too difficult to keep up with SI or for some other reason, but there is less pressure on SI than there has been in the past.  I am currently playing FM12 and will continue to do so as long as it is still working or SI brings something out that is a vast improvement.

[Matorko]

Some of my regens are completely the same, long lost brothers, like WBL and AMC here.

My mate scanned his photo and then this happened.

 

 

 

 

 

[mikimicha]

This newgen pictures look AMAZING. So smooth and nice balanced. WOW. Next gen graphics quality. KUTGW!

 

[*losestonon-league*]

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 10:27, Barside said:

Best option just turn off facegen, who needs faces in FM anyway?

A S T H E T I C S

[pdstanbridge]

Yes aesthetics are very important for me too. I have been trying to work out a way of editing the faces, even in a very basic way to made them more immersive, which is especially important for those long-term saves. But it's not an easy task due to their 3d nature.  It's disconcerting and very disappointing when you get so far in to a campaign and you find out you're fielding three identical triplets (whom aren't even related). Check out my screenie

[KUBI]

vor 9 Minuten schrieb pdstanbridge:

Yes aesthetics are very important for me too. I have been trying to work out a way of editing the faces, even in a very basic way to made them more immersive, which is especially important for those long-term saves. But it's not an easy task due to their 3d nature.  It's disconcerting and very disappointing when you get so far in to a campaign and you find out you're fielding three identical triplets (whom aren't even related). Check out my screenie

The easiest way to change this is to add your own facepacks for your players.

[wkdsoul]

10 minutes ago, KUBI said:

The easiest way to change this is to add your own facepacks for your players.

Raiding other sports to pad out the pack is easy.  i have NFL NHL NBA faces in my regen pack now..  

[KUBI]

Gerade eben schrieb wkdsoul:

Raiding other sports to pad out the pack is easy.  i have NFL NHL NBA faces in my regen pack now..  

You should share that. 

[fayon]

The improvement of the facegens has been a disgrace year after year. They take out all the inmersion in long saves and that takes out a lot of the fun. It has been so disappointing year after year.

I woul recommend to mix the faces of the players they already own the rights, like a swapface app. Maybe that is less expensive and ridiculous

[phnompenhandy]

On 18/01/2018 at 04:30, KUBI said:

You should share that. 

I think he means the same pack as I use, available to download on a certain popular fansite. It would be great if someone did add supplementary figures. Despite posts i read in a thread in the Skinning forum, I haven't yet had duplicates or African dudes coming out of my Scottish Highlands academy, but my personal assistant lass is a rather disconcerting hairy bloke.