Ok to have small targets?

[BigTed88]

Hi Guys, new to the forum and to Football manager, so please move if in the wrong place.

First admission I'm a massive football fan and never played football manager before in my life. Picked FM17 up on sale and it has taken over my life. I used to play fifa and more PES but ever since I started FM I can't play them as I feel like I'm cheating the team. 

I am currently managing Notts Forest. The club seems to have a difficult start although I haven't tried with another team. I am aiming to just hold off relegation and am so far going ok and am loving the struggle. I have meticulously gone through my teams player and finances and built a tactic. I am not aiming for the premier league this season although would like to in a few seasons if I can keep the job.

My question is this, if I'm a new player and DO-NOT want to:

1. Use pre made tactics

2. Google or be  given the names of wonder kids

3. Find players myself, I would like to let my scouts do it.

Is it possible to still have a decent run? I know this is subjective but being so green to the game can I realistically have a good save the first time through? I mean Is the game designed so I can try and battle season after season for a few positions or is it on a timer where if I don't win the league in 3 seasons I'm out and I should just treat this first run through as learning.

I feel I have put the work into the team and don't want to find out in a season that if you don't have a wonder kid or if my scout doesn't find an amazing player I will lose no matter what.

I hope this makes sense, any help is appreciated. 

[gunner86]

The board will present you with their expectations, and generally as long as you are doing reasonably well against them you should be pretty safe.

Tactically speaking, I've never used a pre made tactic and as long as your sensible you should be able to get a pretty sound tactic together. It may be worth taking a look in the tactics forum anywhere as there is some good advice about setting up tactics in a balanced/realistic way.

It's important to remember it's not always about finding the wonderkids, most clubs will get a sufficient level of quality through their acadamies anyway. And a good HOYD will help bring others in from outside too.

Good luck!

[Cougar2010]

8 minutes ago, BigTed88 said:

My question is this, if I'm a new player and DO-NOT want to:

1. Use pre made tactics

2. Google or be  given the names of wonder kids

3. Find players myself, I would like to let my scouts do it.

Is it possible to still have a decent run? I know this is subjective but being so green to the game can I realistically have a good save the first time through? I mean Is the game designed so I can try and battle season after season for a few positions or is it on a timer where if I don't win the league in 3 seasons I'm out and I should just treat this first run through as learning.

I feel I have put the work into the team and don't want to find out in a season that if you don't have a wonder kid or if my scout doesn't find an amazing player I will lose no matter what.

Absolutely its possible.

Different boards will have different expectations and some have more patience than others which means some clubs can be easier or harder to manage.

As long as you are meeting expectations there shouldn't be a problem keeping the job.  As you improve and get better players the expectations will generally increase but with a decent board they are mostly on a par with what you expect yourself.  From season to season you usually have an approx idea where you should be finishing in the league based on the players you have.

In terms of tactics you need to be aware that a particular shape/tactic might work in one situation but not in others so if your situation changes you may need to adapt your tactic to reflect the change.  For example if you battling relegation and regularly come up against teams that come and attack you your tactic might do well.  Once you improve and teams sit back and defend more the tactic might not work as well and you'll need to adapt it when facing defensive teams.  The tactics forum is a good source of information if you have any questions on that front.

In terms of scouting I only ever use scouts, I work them hard, scout surrounding countries, lower competitions and youth competitions.  I shortlist any players with more than 3* potential then use that shortlist when I need a player.  Plan in advance, once a window shuts start thinking about the next one, which positions will you need players in, what type of player do you need and heavily scout the players who you think might be suitable so you have 100% knowledge of them when the next window opens.

[BigTed88]

Massively appreciated guys. I am finding recently my tactic which I started with at season start is not working so well and my lack of depth is being exposed. My scouts aren't the best but I have to rely on them for the mean time.

Its good to know the board won't be expecting FA cup next season they just expect me to stay up at the moment and we are sitting 10th. I am hoping someone buys the club as the chairman (EX Real Life) is a bit difficult and don't have much cash. I can't believe how in depth it is, love it.

I read a lot of pages and posts about people taking low level teams to the Champions League finals with relative ease and I am nowhere near that level. I was worried the game would punish me for not winning everything. Getting to the playoffs in the next few seasons would be enough for me at this stage.

i will look at the forums tactics page. I am more interested in trying to learn to create them myself.  So will look and hopefully get some guidance. I will also give my youth teams another good looking over as well.

Appreciate the kind responses.

 

[Cougar2010]

6 minutes ago, BigTed88 said:

I read a lot of pages and posts about people taking low level teams to the Champions League finals with relative ease and I am nowhere near that level. I was worried the game would punish me for not winning everything. Getting to the playoffs in the next few seasons would be enough for me at this stage.

I really wouldn't worry about those tbh.

Whilst progress can be slower or faster from time to time a lot of those users who go non-league to Champions League in say 10 seasons will be exploiting the game in some way.

[gunner86]

5 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

I really wouldn't worry about those tbh.

Whilst progress can be slower or faster from time to time a lot of those users who go non-league to Champions League in say 10 seasons will be exploiting the game in some way.

They're also, I'd imagine the exception rather than the rule. It took me 8 years to win the Champions League with Arsenal... 

As long as your progressing enough to still be enjoying the game, that's all that really matters

 

[BigTed88]

I think its the realism and struggle of things not going right all the time that I enjoy the most,  it's refreshing not to have a football game constantly try to make you feel like a hero, it's nice to have a mountain to climb. 

i bet that feeling of winning it had you buzzing for days. I will be bouncing of the walls if I ever get Forest into the premier league.  

I just started reading this. Thanks for the feedback. Just what I needed to read.

 

[HUNT3R]

A piece of advice I'll give you is to not measure yourself against others, where success is concerned. Who cares and what does it really matter? There's no difference between winning the CL the first season or the 5th or never. As long as you enjoy it. Even if you don't do well, you'll get team meetings etc. If you get sacked, you get the chance to apply for other jobs and attend interviews. You may land at a club that suits you better or a league you enjoy more. You may not. All part of the experience.

[BigTed88]

Thanks man. It was more that I was concerned that the game will ramp up expectations with a disregard for the actual teams situation/ player etc. I wanted to find out if "BEST WONDER KIDS EVER!" and "DO THIS AMAZING TACTIC" were necessary.

But your right its my game, my success and my failure. it's almost an RPG experience so far and I don't know why it took me so long to play this. I just lost two games by 4 goals, so your advice helped with my disappointment, it hurts so much more when the buck stops with you and you need to figure out the problem. Good times.  

[CFuller]

58 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

I really wouldn't worry about those tbh.

Whilst progress can be slower or faster from time to time a lot of those users who go non-league to Champions League in say 10 seasons will be exploiting the game in some way.

This.

In FM13, it took me 10 seasons after winning the Conference Premier just to get my Dagenham & Redbridge team into the Premier League. Some managers can shoot up the leagues and win almost everything within a decade, but simply making steady progress and building your club up as you go along can arguably be even more rewarding.

Personally, I like to set myself small long-term targets. After getting into the Championship, I set myself the goal of reaching the PL within five seasons. It took me exactly five seasons, and a Play-Off Final, to achieve that. Now I'm in the middle of another five-year plan, to get into Europe.

[HUNT3R]

3 minutes ago, BigTed88 said:

Thanks man. It was more that I was concerned that the game will ramp up expectations with a disregard for the actual teams situation/ player etc. I wanted to find out if "BEST WONDER KIDS EVER!" and "DO THIS AMAZING TACTIC" were necessary.

But your right its my game, my success and my failure. it's almost an RPG experience so far and I don't know why it took me so long to play this. I just lost two games by 4 goals, so your advice helped with my disappointment, it hurts so much more when the buck stops with you and you need to figure out the problem. Good times.  

Yeah, if you're starting out with this game, it won't be easy. The tactics forum put up brilliant guides though and those can help you with basics.

[wattzy]

2 minutes ago, CFuller said:

This.

In FM13, it took me 10 seasons after winning the Conference Premier just to get my Dagenham & Redbridge team into the Premier League.

You say it like that's a long time  Took me 6 years to get them to League 1 before I left and I'm sure I'd have been fighting relegation for another 3-4 years haha

[CFuller]

I'm sure that there are some FMers who take even longer to climb up the leagues. I swear that someone playing the Dafuge Challenge a few versions back took about 20-30 years just to get his team out of the Conference North, but they never gave up.

[BigTed88]

Nice to read everyone is not a master. 

Points taken:

Take it as it comes, enjoy the roller coaster, try your best forget the rest. 

[wattzy]

I've played every FM since it started (and many Champ mans before that) and I only had success in FM12 and this year, sort of. I read a lot of careers in the career forum, and have also watched lots of streamers who all somehow or another make the game look like it's a piece of p*ss when it really isn't.

Enjoy your game and see what success comes from it. You seem to be doing well with Forrest seeing as your 10th and only expected to stay up. Good investment in your squad will take you up another level or two within the next few seasons. Good luck

[samuelawachie]

For a newbie, I'd personally recommend reading the Lines and Diamonds guide (imo the best guide ever written about the game). It would help you a lot and explain a lot of things. Seeing as you're a football fan, you'd love it just for the literature alone not to talk of the Tactics Creator guide in there. It's awesome.

And for what it's worth, i love how you're playing the game. No downloading tactics, or lists or anything of the sort. That reminds me of how I started in 2007. 

FM really is quite a game and like you, once I found it, I left PES and FIFA

[BigTed88]

Wow,  I have been reading the lines and diamonds guide today at work. I'm about halfway through. Crazy detail in there, learnt a lot but there is a lot to digest.

I think that me trying to play control possession football isn't really suiting my team. I thought because I didn't have the best players attacking mentality was a no go.

After reading the guide I think it's an option, I have a lot of winger/ inside forward depth in my squad, I will try and rework my tactic tonight. See if we can maybe be a bit more attacking when playing at home.

Thanks for guide and the reassurance to the way I want to play,  Will finish the rest after the weekend.

 

[wattzy]

5 hours ago, BigTed88 said:

Wow,  I have been reading the lines and diamonds guide today at work. I'm about halfway through. Crazy detail in there, learnt a lot but there is a lot to digest.

I think that me trying to play control possession football isn't really suiting my team. I thought because I didn't have the best players attacking mentality was a no go.

After reading the guide I think it's an option, I have a lot of winger/ inside forward depth in my squad, I will try and rework my tactic tonight. See if we can maybe be a bit more attacking when playing at home.

Thanks for guide and the reassurance to the way I want to play,  Will finish the rest after the weekend.

 

It's good to understand what suits your team, but don't force yourself to change a whole tactic because it doesn't completely suit your team now. As long as you're doing OK in the league maybe stick with what you have and in the summer buy players to suit the formation.

Obviously it's up to you, but I find it easier buying players to suit a formation and style of football I want to play rather than doing the opposite and finding a good tactic based on the attributes of 15/20 players.

[gunner86]

18 minutes ago, wattzy said:

It's good to understand what suits your team, but don't force yourself to change a whole tactic because it doesn't completely suit your team now. As long as you're doing OK in the league maybe stick with what you have and in the summer buy players to suit the formation.

Obviously it's up to you, but I find it easier buying players to suit a formation and style of football I want to play rather than doing the opposite and finding a good tactic based on the attributes of 15/20 players.

Yeah, I'm the same as this, worst case scenario, you end up having to replace people, best case, you find actually, the players you have can actually fit the system you want - role suitability wheels are only a guide, and don't need to be taken completely as read.

I've played Giroud as a false 9 and had it work

[BigTed88]

Noted. On that though, I found myself playing a style for survival not what I actually want to play. I was hoping to hold on this year and start building next.

I think I was asking to much of my target man and wingers without an AM. I was struggling to create space for chances. I have since added added an AM and changed style. We lost 3-1 to villa - fair enough, but just smashed Rotherham...felt so good after 3 big loses, but I digress from my original questions.

So the preferred roles aren't necessarily always the best option? I see stats of players suit other roles, I just thought the green bar was there preferred position?  

 

 

[gunner86]

The green bar is their role suitability, but players will have preferred roles too. But that doesn't mean that either is necessarily their best role, especially if playing them in that role has a negative effect on your system overall.

The Championship is an interesting league. I had a save in FM16 with Derby, and actually found my best attacking performances were when I was playing with a "defensive" system. Even when I moved into the Prem, the overall style never changed and after a period of consolidation, I started moving up the league as I improved the quality of the players.

It's the only save I've had where I felt like I'd completely managed to impose my own brand of football, something I'm yet to replicate, making it my most rewarding save to date.

[mimland]

Getting low league teams to rule the world was kinda easy some years ago but it has been a lot harder the past few years in my opinion at least. In FM17 I actually managed to make Nuneaton a decent mid table premier league team before leaving them but I think that was only possible because I had a board that was happy to put up the resources needed.  Can't really remember the last time I managed that kind of feat though. 

As long as you meet the demands of the board you can take your time and build the team up. If you keep doing ok and watch your spending it is possible to sort out the financial problems, can always hope to find a good bargain or two that can be sold at profit in the future. I would be a bit careful with the wish that the club will get a take over since it isn't actually certain that you get to keep your job especially if you are not doing very well at the time of take over. When it comes to players preferred roles and duties I don't usually pay them all that much attention as I put my focus in getting the team to perform as a team and fit together more than individual preferences, also put a lot of time into training team cohesion and team work over the season. 

[BigTed88]

Mate why did you have to write that haha. Been playing non stop and since being fairly new have taken a lot of time inbetween games to try and make sure everything is in order, towards the end of the season, but today I got an email stating that the club was in final talks for a take over and my assistant would be getting my job. Absolutely deversated haha. The deal since feel through but I feel its only a matter of time. I have managed to keep the team at a steady 8-10th. I know my in experience is going to get me the chop. Can't believe how much it effected me. Sat having a beer by the pool genuinely thinking about my FM future, wife thinks I'm nuts but doesn't understand.  Am I likely to get offered another job?Someone hold me.

[Sammy_CJ]

1 hour ago, BigTed88 said:

Mate why did you have to write that haha. Been playing non stop and since being fairly new have taken a lot of time inbetween games to try and make sure everything is in order, towards the end of the season, but today I got an email stating that the club was in final talks for a take over and my assistant would be getting my job. Absolutely deversated haha. The deal since feel through but I feel its only a matter of time. I have managed to keep the team at a steady 8-10th. I know my in experience is going to get me the chop. Can't believe how much it effected me. Sat having a beer by the pool genuinely thinking about my FM future, wife thinks I'm nuts but doesn't understand.  Am I likely to get offered another job?Someone hold me.

I remember one year FM15 I think I took over Barnet in league 2, they were odds on to go down but after 3 seasons I had made them play-off challengers. I had brought in some good players as was really exited about the season to come when I was sacked out of the blue ! cant remember the exact reason, take over/ glitch maybe but I was gutted took me a few days to get over it. In fact i think i stopped playing for a month or so because it hurt too much! hahaha good times !

[BigTed88]

I'm finding my motivation to keep going in this save dwindling.

As said above being new to the game, I have taken a lot of time to get things sorted and this board take over is dragging on and on with me unsure about the job. This is leading me to not want to continue with the same focus/detail I previously had. I understand this is a realistic aspect but there is so much for me to learn already, that the length of time the buyout is taking is distracting me from getting more invested in game mechanics. I feel any effort will be wasted at this club as I will be out once the takeover is completed.

Am I likely to get another job with under a year in game experience?

How long can the consortium take over sagas last?

I don't really want to quit an restart if possible.

Appreciate replys.

[Cougar2010]

Takeovers can take a while, I've seen them drag on for several months in game.

Yes you shouldn't have a problem getting another job although at what level will depend on what starting experience you selected.

As long as you are meeting expectations you are unlikely to be sacked after a takeover.

[cuzn1984]

I stopped reading after the “Notts Forest” line! Just no, not ever or will it ever be Notts Forest!

Forest or Nott’m Forest! 

Other than that, welcome to the wonderful world of the work wrecking, marriage ending game that is football manager 👍

[mimland]

Even if they say they want to replace you it isn't a done deal until after the takeover is completed. They often say they want to replace the manager but it doesn't always happen anyway.