Youngsters/Wonderkids unable to develop into complete players

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, FmPeace said:

What do you mean by "obvious flaws"?
A 15y old central defender with 8 for off the ball, but 4 for balance and 6 for bravery?
A 15y old winger with 8 for acceleration, but 10 for positioning?
A 15y old striker with 12 for free kicks, but 8 for finishing?

Yeah, that's the FM I like...

Yes, players like do exist in the youth (U15/14) setups of some very big clubs.

3 minutes ago, Cougar2010 said:

IRL for every player that makes it at a club there are hundreds that don't.

There is a reason that there has only been one Messi, C. Ronaldo, Maradona & Pele IRL and for every world class player there are literally millions & millions that aren't.

 

You don't seem to understand how CA converts to attributes.  If you took all those points out of those four skills you probably still wouldn't have enough CA to increase finishing by a single point.

Ronaldo is a good example of a youngster who while clearly talented with the ball at his feet had a number of flaws that some might claim to be unrealistic in an FM newgen.

 

[FmPeace]

Vitor Pinto original profile vs this:

 

WHO WOULD YOU BUY???

[HUNT3R]

Just now, Barside said:

Yes, players like do exist in the youth (U15/14) setups of some very big clubs.

Of course. And IRL, they'd be retrained to a different position or used in a different role. 

 

Or just not make it entirely, because they don't seem suited to the position.

[FmPeace]

2 minutes ago, FmPeace said:

Vitor Pinto original profile vs this:

 

WHO WOULD YOU BUY???

Answer me please, in all honesty.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, FmPeace said:

Answer me please, in all honesty.

You were answered. Stop spamming.

[Cougar2010]

Just now, FmPeace said:

Answer me please, in all honesty.

Its a nothing question.

For a start I don't buy a player just on attributes.  How about hidden attributes like consistency/big matches? Is he injury prone? What about his personality like professionalism/ambition etc.

On top of that how much would he be? does that cost represent good value?

Finally is that mocked together attributes that you created even possible?  Certainly not for the same level of CA therefore your created player is totally different.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, HUNT3R said:

Of course. And IRL, they'd be retrained to a different position or used in a different role. 

 

Or just not make it entirely, because they don't seem suited to the position.

Exactly, folk also need to realise that a low attribute is not a terrible attribute as even a rating of 1 in FM represents a considerably higher level of competence in that skill/trait than the average bloke who kicks the ball about in the park with his mates.

[FmPeace]

Just now, HUNT3R said:

You were answered. Stop spamming.

You don't like the fact that I am pointing out an obvious flaw of your work at SI, regarding the attribute distribution in the newegen system.
All you people do that. "In favour of SI, even if they are wrong"...
What about valid criticism? With examples?


I'll stop now with this matter, as I realised that I am not the one who's arrogant here...
 

[Guest]

HUNT3R doesn't work for SI, he simply gives up his free time to keep the peace on the forum.

[HUNT3R]

Just now, FmPeace said:

You don't like the fact that I am pointing out an obvious flaw of your work at SI, regarding the attribute distribution in the newegen system.
All you people do that. "In favour of SI, even if they are wrong"...
What about valid criticism? With examples?


I'll stop now with this matter, as I realised that I am not the one who's arrogant here...
 

You've been told that attributes have different weightings. The two different players you're showing have a completely different CA - it's not just a matter of simply swapping the numbers around.

Those are facts that you need to accept. No one has said there aren't potential issues, including SI, as long as these facts are also taken into account. Once you do take it into account, one can look at these things properly.

[Longhorn]

In my saves I consider a talented youth to have been developed well when the CA is close to the PA by the time the player is 24.  To get there a lot of things have to happen, such as having good facilities, good staff, and giving the player lots of good experience in the proper positions.  Even then I sometimes am a bit frustrated because one or two attributes aren't what I want them to be, but that is real life as well. It also happens in real life that as a player develops their position should change because some attributes are developing faster than others and they become more suitable for a different position, and I see this in the game as well from time to time.   In my saves I often play as two or three teams so that I can loan talented players to my lower level teams which will give them lots of first team experience until they are ready for my main team.  Overall I am satisfied that my players tend to develop "successfully" according to my standards.

[GoldenGoal]

Another problem with regens is that the current players on the database are extremely versatile, sometimes playing on all 4 wing options (even at both sides sometimes), while regens rarely have so many positions on the wings. Retraining them is a possibility yes, but it takes a full season or more to have an effect.

Another problem is that currently in real world there are very old players that have good abilities, but as soon as you begin the game they drop their skills massively once they reach 32 years, and as for regens they are unplayable once they get to 34 years.

[santy001]

9 hours ago, GoldenGoal said:

Another problem with regens is that the current players on the database are extremely versatile, sometimes playing on all 4 wing options (even at both sides sometimes), while regens rarely have so many positions on the wings. Retraining them is a possibility yes, but it takes a full season or more to have an effect.

Another problem is that currently in real world there are very old players that have good abilities, but as soon as you begin the game they drop their skills massively once they reach 32 years, and as for regens they are unplayable once they get to 34 years.

This is mostly down to how people play the game in my experience. On recent FM's I've had Lewandowski, Van Persie, the German Kiessling (don't have the letters on my keyboard), Suarez, all playing the lead role up front for me beyond 35 and even as late as 39 still knocking in over 20 a year. In a deep lying playmaker role, as long as the technical attributes are there a player could carry on indefinitely in some of the formations I use. 

Just in my most recent save I've gotten Crewe to the premier league inside 5 years mostly off the back of 34+ players who were without a club and could do a job for a couple of years. If your formation relies on 90 minutes of high activity, high intensity runs and such then absolutely they won't be usable, have a system where they just need to be in the right place at the right time and age, pace, acceleration and stamina are fairly meaningless.

A lot of old players, if playing regularly, don't deteriorate mentally or technically that much, only physically which is to be expected. Although I do disagree with FM's regular assertion that strength too declines, a number of players will actually increase their core strength to make up for the lost speed as they get older. 

- - - - -

As for some of the comments made by FM Peace in regard to attributes, it is as others have been said, attributes have different weightings. But those weightings are far more nuanced, and are incredibly complex. 

Let's saying, purely hypothetically for a player who can just play central defence, his tackling weighting is 10. Now, for just a right back it could be 11. For a player who can play CB and RB it might be 10.6, but a player who can play CB, RB, but has a main position of DM it might be 9.5 but for just a DM its 9. 

That's entirely illustrative, and in no way indicative of the actual weightings - for 2 reasons, one we don't disclose weightings as far as I'm aware, secondly... I couldn't be bothered to trawl through and draw up all the possible different combinations because a player can be rated from 1-20 in any position. 

[Fergy234]

I like to play one save for a long time, that is why I think it's important that players that the game creates are similar to the real ones so they can take their place when the "old ones" retire.

 

The new players have most of the time too many flaws, way too low bravery is very common for  example. 

Another thing that is common is that young players in your team don't develop properly even though you put them in proper trainings and let them be tutored by very good players their attributes just don't develop even though they have 3 to 4 stars in potential ability or 160 - 200 in the genie scout..

 

Just a few thoughts on what can be improved in this great game.

 

[Guest]

If you're having problems developing young raw talent & are willing to learn how to improve that area of your managerial ability then head over to the tactics forum & check out Cleon's threads on youth development, he has gone into a lot of detail on how to get the most out of the next generation of players coming through.

[Fergy234]

1 hour ago, Barside said:

If you're having problems developing young raw talent & are willing to learn how to improve that area of you managerial ability then head over to the tactics forum & check out Cleon's threads on youth development, he has gone into a detail on how to get the most out of the next generate of players coming through.

I will check that out, thanks for the tip