DP Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, Svenc said: Oh dear oh dear. What? I think certain players are bigger than tactical styles. They already have it ingrained into them. Probably more in their preferred moves. My point is, as a manager I won’t be spending lots of time telling Messi what he needs to do - he’s that good. He transcends tactics as he already has a higher level of footballing intelligence. I’m sorry if this goes against how you play FM and the influence you feel you have as a virtual manager but it’s true. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 11 minutes ago, DP said: My point is, as a manager I won’t be spending lots of time telling Messi what he needs to do - he’s that good. He transcends tactics as he already has a higher level of footballing intelligence. So you're Maradona, basically. Nothing wrong witht that inherently. Either way, on the main topic of this, it was the amount of goals scored by Messi, Cr7 et all. It is clear as a day even looking at basic numbers that in their respective teams, they tend to be the guys at which most moves end. Moreso for CR7, some less so for Messi. That is tactical thing right there. In football, and in FM anyway too. If AI don'T do this (and they don't have the traits to do it), expecting those guys to score as regularly as they do in real life is unrealistic. It's not gonna happen. Ditto if for tactical reasons they don't even regularly get into the positions they do in real life -- which is centrally, in front of the box. Either because AI sits them out wide or else. It's the same as us playing Fifa. Imagine you always pass the ball to CRonaldo so that he would score another goal. Yet the AI wouldn't be programmed that way, so under the guidance of us players, Ronaldo would always score more goals, as we funnel all moves to his. Whereas the AI never would. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, Svenc said: So you're Maradona, basically. If you’re comparing him with how he does for Argentina there are many other factors at play there. For Barcelona the AI shouldn’t have such a hard time ‘working out’ how to get the best from him. This is a poor argument as to why he scores so few goals. I don’t blame SI as Messi and Ronaldo are freaks that probably won’t be replicated for a long time, but to get these guys performing as well as their real life stats is an exception too far. Even the ME cannot adequately compensate for it and I don’t think the best human player would be able to replicate their real life stats based on the games limitations. May be wrong on the last point but would love to see an example of someone getting the same goal output as his IRL stats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, DP said: I don’t blame SI as Messi and Ronaldo are freaks that probably won’t be replicated for a long time, but to get these guys performing as well as their real life stats is an exception too far. To an extent, yes though. I think the ME will always struggle with the more "extreme" ends in genreal. I don't think they're freaks though. Even non-team sports that were dominated by figures -- they never were that much better than the rest of what they compete against. They oft just simply did the simple things well, and generally have that edge that wins them more. It's perceived that way because football and sports commentary and broadcast loves narratives/stories tell. Narrative works by having protagonists. It's a cause and effect thing. Protagonists tend to be super heroes (who win it all by themselves) or losers (who can be booed). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DP Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Just now, Svenc said: Just now, Svenc said: The same as his returns in real life? If we take Ronaldo he has about 310 goals in 290 games. That sort of high? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 28 minutes ago, DP said: The same as his returns in real life? If we take Ronaldo he has about 310 goals in 290 games. That sort of high? Realistically high -- and delightfully, with a tactic that approached/roughly estimated how Zidane's Real play too -- upfront all guys geared towards making space for his and assisting his (rather than one of those exploits that sees poor players scoring no matter what, which is why this thread has barely any replies). Ever since joining Madrid, it's 432 goals from 422 games from consistently 7 attempts average per match (SpG column). The latter of which may be the more crucial part here. I've never seen AI tactically set up so that such a big amount of finishes all fall to one centralish guy. So far, it's all been fairly vanilla management. Wherever you tend to look, for the AI the shot spread is always fairly evenly spread across the front lines -- a typically AI managed side below. More importantly, AI doesn't get players to take 4+ or 5+ shots per match in general. And that's not because it hasn't been possible prior. Of course, for the sake of good argument, it could be argued that in real football, Ronaldo has that many finishes because he HIMSELF demands to be passed to all the time so that he can score one more (and collect another award). On FM, that doesn't happen either way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Ronaldo has 16 in 20 games in a save I'm doing just now. 12 in 15 in the league, 4 in 5 in the Champions League. Messi has 7 in 15 in the league and 3 in 5 in the CL, but also has four assists over the two competitions. Only player close to them combined is Griezmann. I've got the major European Leagues as playable. Seen folk complaining about possession aswell, Barcelona, Real Madrid and Man City all have over 65% in the league in this save too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZoDiAC_ Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Messi has 8 goals and 5 assists in 10 games Seems alright to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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