Brazil's Jogo Bonito style

[kingpoodle]

i'm doing something similar to this except that i'm playing with 1 DM and 2 MC.

How do i stop conceding from long balls over my defence? the opponent normally just launch a long through ball to the striker which will just run pass my defenders and go 1-on-1 with my goalkeeper and my CBs can't catch up.

[alinp]

6 hours ago, kingpoodle said:

How do i stop conceding from long balls over my defence? the opponent normally just launch a long through ball to the striker which will just run pass my defenders and go 1-on-1 with my goalkeeper and my CBs can't catch up.

Options....

1. get better, faster CB's
2. stop the through ball in the first place
3. drop your d-line

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

2 hours ago, alinp said:

Options....

1. get better, faster CB's
2. stop the through ball in the first place
3. drop your d-line

Nailed it 

[yonko]

By "faster CB's" do you mean acceleration or pace or both? And what is the minimum attribute value for EPL level for example? It would be helpful to know.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

1 hour ago, yonko said:

By "faster CB's" do you mean acceleration or pace or both? And what is the minimum attribute value for EPL level for example? It would be helpful to know.

There's no 'minimum' attribute, in my opinion. I get nervous when either goes below 12 and generally prefer acceleration over pace. Obviously more is always better and intelligence would influence as well. Someone with high anticipation, concentration and positioning doesn't require the same pace and acceleration as a less intelligent defender.

[yonko]

4 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

There's no 'minimum' attribute, in my opinion. I get nervous when either goes below 12 and generally prefer acceleration over pace. Obviously more is always better and intelligence would influence as well. Someone with high anticipation, concentration and positioning doesn't require the same pace and acceleration as a less intelligent defender.

Well, if you get nervous below 12 then your minimum is 12.

I agree that a defender with high anticipation, concentration, positioning and (I'll add) decisions, would need less acceleration/pace. I think in general most CB's have higher pace than acceleration. I value pace, because with a high D-Line the space from own goal is big enough that a pacey defender can catch up with the attacker.

[Repsalty]

I'm very impressed at how you can make so many systems from an idea into a reality, struggling myself to get 1 simple tactic to simply work I can only sit back in awe. Now I'm guessing you do struggle some times (or at least I hope you do, else I will feel even worse :() how do you go about to getting to such system? Because I would imagine you don't have the correct formation/tactics all from the start.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

8 hours ago, yonko said:

Well, if you get nervous below 12 then your minimum is 12.

I agree that a defender with high anticipation, concentration, positioning and (I'll add) decisions, would need less acceleration/pace. I think in general most CB's have higher pace than acceleration. I value pace, because with a high D-Line the space from own goal is big enough that a pacey defender can catch up with the attacker.

Haha, yea if you need a minimum then say 12 but I'd certainly recommend using that as more of a guideline than a rule. For example, if you search a minimum of 12 pace then you could miss a gem. If a young player has the desired attributes but low pace - whilst you're never going to make them Usain Bolt - you can up that by a couple of notches to an acceptable standard over the course of a season or two.

 

3 hours ago, Repsalty said:

I'm very impressed at how you can make so many systems from an idea into a reality, struggling myself to get 1 simple tactic to simply work I can only sit back in awe. Now I'm guessing you do struggle some times (or at least I hope you do, else I will feel even worse :() how do you go about to getting to such system? Because I would imagine you don't have the correct formation/tactics all from the start.

Thank you very much, and yes have certainly spent - and continue to spend - a lot of time frustrated, trying to get something to click.

There are a couple of systems I'd like to use but can't due to the half-back issue, hence why I'd opened threads hoping to resolve the issue but unfortunately recently closed by the freedom-of-speech police! 

My best advice would be to be to be clear about the characteristics you'd like to implement. Football is very subjective which is why I generally start threads with my own interpretation, as others will be different. Be clear about how you'd like to defend, transition and attack and then think about how you can implement this in the tactics creator. There's always more than one way, so it takes some experimentation but it's satisfying to find a solution.

Building the team is another can of worms. I think my Ajax thread was in season 6, Milan and Arsenal both season 3 so there was some building, developing and just as much thought goes into player selection.

[siisin]

On 8/22/2016 at 20:49, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Formation, Player Roles / Duties and Player Instructions

As per wwfan's influential 12 Step Guide on How to Play Football Manager, in order to successfully play a Fluid shape I need to limit my team to 1-2 Specialist roles i.e playmakers, ball-winners or anything with a fancy name.

Goalkeeper (Defend): Distribute Quickly
Right Wingback (Attack): N/A
Centre Back (Defend): N/A
Centre Back (Defend): N/A
Left Wingback (Attack): N/A
Central Midfielder (Defend): Close Down Much Less
Deep-Lying Playmaker (Support): N/A
Right Inside Forward (Support): N/A
Attacking Midfielder (Attack): N/A
Left Inside Forward (Support): N/A
Complete Forward (Support): Move into Channels
 

I've implemented a similar tactic with Preston after gaining promotion to the premiership (FM 16.2) . I find it difficult to create clear cut chances from open play, usually by the time the ball gets into the opposition half the box is already congested. My players in the attacking strata aren't creating enough space with their movement for chances to open up. I removed the pass into space shout because some players in my defensive line try Hollywood passes at times that result in a quick interception from the opposition and lightening speed counters that usually results in goals over the top balls to strikers. Also when the opposition play with two strikers i realize sometimes both defenders will press the auxiliary striker that has dropped deep to receive a pass, resulting in the auxiliary striker picking up his striker partner who has drifted into the space vacated by the second center back vacating his position to participate in the press. 

 

My Squad

from your reading this post it appears the tactic was successful for you.

I struggle with this tactic usually have better possession than opposition but end up losing matches.

Also I'm mostly scoring from crosses.

Thanks

[Azza2306]

I noticed that you have the CM(D) set to close down much less but he has the default of close down much more. I have tried to select it and it defaults back each time, would you look at a change of role?

[Fosse]

2 hours ago, Azza2306 said:

I noticed that you have the CM(D) set to close down much less but he has the default of close down much more. I have tried to select it and it defaults back each time, would you look at a change of role?

This thread was from FM16 but the hard coded close down more instruction was from the most recent update.

[Azza2306]

4 hours ago, Fosse said:

This thread was from FM16 but the hard coded close down more instruction was from the most recent update.

Yeah I went back to my old 16 game and it was in there too. Was thinking of changing to a CM(S) and altering the PI to match

[DizzyNewHeights]

How do you deal with the CM(D) in FM17 ? Do you change to a CM(S) and adjust the PIs to suit like the guy above me asked ?

Edited August 1, 2017 by DizzyNewHeights

[davehibb]

 

On 8/1/2017 at 22:56, DizzyNewHeights said:

How do you deal with the CM(D) in FM17 ? Do you change to a CM(S) and adjust the PIs to suit like the guy above me asked ?

I tried this system last night in a few preseason friendlies with PSG, though I'm testing it out with a view to a rebooted Dortmund save.

I used a CM(s) and adjusted his PI's but I'm also now contemplating altering the double pivot to a DLP(d) and a RPM(s) (Weigl & Dahood), to see how that plays out and if it's defensively solid. 

[jorgvandervloed]

@DizzyNewHeights A control strategy already has increased closing down and higher defensive line, team instructions to further increase this. This means the whole team will have closing down almost maximum anyways, so the hard-coded PI ''close down more'' probably won't have as much affect anyways. Just as the PI ''close down less'' won't have as much of an affect either. 

Very simple example; control has your team closing down at 7 out of 10. This is increased by team instructions to 8, but later decreased to 7 with the PI. Will he close down less? Yes, but 7 is still a high number so he will still close down most of the time. 

[DarkXess]

Any idea how I can convert this to work in FM19?

Thanks

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

8 hours ago, DarkXess said:

Any idea how I can convert this to work in FM19?

Thanks

Funny enough, I'd play it pretty similarly. I'd be looking at something pretty similar, although since writing this I have become a much bigger fan of the AMC(S) role in an Attacking team mentality.

I'd need to play around with it a bit but it would be nice to revisit the 4-2-4 at some point as I don't feel I've done it justice.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Inspired by this superb blog post about Pele and the great Brazil teams, I was inspired to take another look at this.

I'm still on FM2018, but would be starting with something like this.

Using PIs to make that 4-2-4 shape. I have a feeling that might be brutal, with the right team.

[False9]

oh wow, I really hope you do give this a shot!!

[buachuta]

On 26/04/2019 at 22:43, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Inspired by this superb blog post about Pele and the great Brazil teams, I was inspired to take another look at this.

I'm still on FM2018, but would be starting with something like this.

Using PIs to make that 4-2-4 shape. I have a feeling that might be brutal, with the right team.

What PIs are you using then?

[vrbrasa]

Em 10/05/2019 em 11:43, buachuta disse:

What PIs are you using then?

the ponta de lança  i am really interessed. i think its not far from the ones here... 

[gpassosbh]

I´ll also try this one in FM21.

[mc22]

Curious if something like this would work in the current game, I always think back to the original post when thinking about trying a 4231

[NotSoSpecialOne]

6 hours ago, mc22 said:

Curious if something like this would work in the current game, I always think back to the original post when thinking about trying a 4231

Yeah, but with two very aggressive wing backs you might be a bit leaky at the back unless the CM(De) is an absolute monster.