Johan Cruyff's 3-4-3 Diamond (Very Fluid)

[tigertailz001]

You didn't read it very well then as all the info you need Is in the first few posts without a download link

I did read all information to set it up, I was just being lazy if their was download available.

PS Has anyone set up any specific set pieces which works well with this tactic.

[herne79]

I did read all information to set it up, I was just being lazy if their was download available.

PS Has anyone set up any specific set pieces which works well with this tactic.

If all you want to do is copy this system for your own team, you've missed the entire point of the thread.

By all means copy it, but don't be surprised if it doesn't work for you.

[Earnie is God!]

Indeed. Copy it as a template by all means but you still have to have the right players to make it work, or tweak it to suit what you have.

[evertonmarc]

May have missed the comments, but when getting to choose the size of your pitch preseason, what are you looking for mainly with this setup?

Excellent updates btw

[Jean0987654321]

I'd make the pitch as small as possible. Makes it easier to retain possession because the players are closer to each other...

[axehan1]

Is that for FM16? if so when do you get to choose pitch size?

[Jean0987654321]

Is that for FM16? if so when do you get to choose pitch size?

During pre-season. But you can't pick your pitch size if you are in the EPL...

[nick1408]

I occasionally used swap position between the AM->ST as both Kuijpers and Odegaard are proficient in both position.

As for the midfield swap - where possible I prefer to have a right footed player on the right and a left footed player on the left so that that can use their body to shield possession from oncoming defenders from the centre. Klaassen is right footed and I trained van de Beek to be either footed. I also used Paal regularly on the left-side. That said, I'm pretty sure it's a minor issue and swapping could work perfectly well.

You could even use versatile players like van de Beek, Bazoer and Ajer to have a player from defence swapping into midfield, which would be very "Total Football" indeed Perhaps that's opening a whole new can of worms! I always liked Ajer's height at the back, Bazoers athleticism and skill holding and van de Beek's technical ability in the middle.

In that case, perhaps try balancing one naturally more defensive player with one naturally more attacking player. That was the sweet spot for me. My left winger was naturally a pretty complete, attacking wingback and he thrived in this system. Nunnely stole the awards with his goals and assists but the left winger was integral.

Keep your midfield as 'complete' as possible. If less hard working, players creep in then gaps will open.

I've been watching this thread and really like the ideas behind it. So much so that I have started an Ajax save today. I had tried this formation in an earlier save late in the save with Real Madrid (Around 2025 or 2030). Managed to slot 12-1 in the first half against one side in the league - easily my FM16 highlight - well until the bloody thing crashed prior to the autosave! What I am wondering is you have mentioned above about balancing defence with attack (makes complete sense) but in both this thread and the Ajax thread on GPTG board you have the more attacking players (in my eyes) on the right and the defensive players on the left. The below is a good example:

2018/19 Mid-Season Update

Tactics

So, I'm back to the 3-6-1.

Without the ball it's an absolute monster. High intensity pressing. The band of 5 means that we can press aggressively whilst simultaneously cutting off passing options. It's devastating.

With the ball, we are a 3-4-3 diamond. In fact, we're basically two diamonds flanked by wingers with a forward up top. The back 3 + Bazoer create the first diamond. Then there's the midfield diamond. Bazoer is absolutely crucial both with and without the ball. He's involved with everything.

Ake and Van de Beek are a far more defensive pair than Nunnely and Klaassen. This to me could lead to potentially aggressive play down the right flank with nothing really to cover it. From memory Knoulou is also reletively attacking for a defender. Is this the cover for the attacking flank with hopefully other players having time to get back? It just seems like the prime area to counter.

One final thing; you have given some indication on the PI's and PPM's for the CM(s) positions - is there any further hints you can give? When I played at Real I didn't use any PI's as I figured the players are already good enough to beat anyone. At Ajax it will be a different story and I can more or less copy what you did above.

[ramie]

Playing this system at Barcelona I would be concerned about what you do with Messi and Neymar. Suarez is perfect for the Complete forward role and one of them could play behind the striker, but if you put them on the wings you may have a problem with work rate.

I have just started a new Barcelona save and looking to use this system as a base to my squad. Going to put Messi in the AMC but during per season and the first 4 games he has gone missing. Would playing him as a AP - A spoil the system?

[Blaugranas]

Hi, Ozil

Thank you for sharing with us your awesome work!

Could you please reply what team instructions you used in this tactic created for Barcelona in the 4-3-3 Wide system?

Also, are there any individual instructions?

[Kenco]

This is a really interesting thread, good work. I've always loved the idea of Total Football but never really attempted it. This thread has inspired me to turn Liverpool into a Total Football team!

I've played a 4-4-2 diamond in the first season due to the players at my disposal, full-backs as CWBs has worked pretty well but I only did this due to the lack of decent wingers in the team. With loan players coming back and hopefully a decent transfer budget, I'm certainly going to attempt to implement this style. It won't be easy and it won't happen overnight, some of my defenders are definitely not suited for this but I'd rather have a go at it and fail than to not even attempt it. Wish me luck!

[JURET]

amazing write up.

Got me super hyper to try this tactic. My only problem is i have built my team on wing attacks and my lazio side in 2020 is loaded with AML/AMR´s and CWBL/CWB´r.

But as the chinese word, a crises makes possibities and transfers in this game is so fun. Lets see if i can sell my winning team and build a new one after this tactic.

Many centre midfielders looks to be the challange.

[Joe.]

This is an excellent thread with a great insight into how you've created your tactics to suit your needs.

Once I read through this, I was inspired to try something similar. I searched for a club I thought could manage it, but also a club not at the top of their league - somewhere I could create a legacy of sorts.

I've chosen Everton - Baines and Coleman are ideal wide men, rotated with Deulofeu/Lennon. Cleverley and McCarthy just inside them. I had Barry as DLP but wasn't convinced, and I'm rotating Lukaku & Niasse up front with Barkley in behind. I'm building my squad slowly, and don't have the depth just yet but it's getting there.

Initially I went to exactly replicate this tactic, and only brought in a new keeper in the first transfer window - but I soon discovered that it just didn't quite work. I started the season brightly though, but after a dip in form I couldn't win for love nor money.

I've added in 'work ball into box' as I found that without that, my players were getting lots of shots on goal but without creating great chances. I've also changed the two wider central defenders to BPD. I did this as, firstly, I can't see John Stones playing any other way - and secondly, I found that they would drift a little too wide for my liking. This has kept them closer together and means we retain possession from the outset - it didn't mean that I was just keeping possession for possession's sake and actually found that it opened up the opposition defence quite nicely. I've also dropped Jagielka in favour of Funes Mori, and in January I brought in Eder Balanta (BPD) and Steven N'Zonzi (DLP) who have both been fantastic.

I'm approaching the final ten games of the season now, and having been one game away from the sack, I made the mentioned tweaks, beat Chelsea 1-0 and haven't looked back since.

I've also got my youth intake training to play exactly the same way, though it has literally been 1 week since they came through so hopefully I'll be reaping the rewards of that before too long.

So yea - thank you for this thread. I'm thoroughly enjoying my save, and hope that I can keep up the good form for many seasons to come!

[Kenco]

So I've been using the Total Football system with Liverpool for a few months now, with very mixed results! I'm trying to keep the squad as much like the real squad for now, so along with the pre-arranged signings of Grujic and Matip I've also bought Karius and Mane. I like the idea of a defensive winger one side, offensive on the other and my best results come from Moreno on the left, Mane on the right. Mane is not good defensively, so I ensure I play one of my more defensive minded MCs next to him, such as Lucas or Allen. On the other side, Moreno is good defensively so I play a more attack-minded MC next to him. Grujic likes to "get forward whenever possible", so he works well here. With the DLP I'm not sure who is the best for this role. I started with Can as he has the best defensive attributes but recently changed to play Henderson there as he is my best MC and likes to dictate tempo, which I assume goes well with a playmaker role.

I've also played this tactic with a much higher tempo and closing down much more, which I think is causing my players to tire more.

I believe that my problem is partly down to the lack of tactical familiarity, which will improve over time, and also some players perhaps not being suited to the system. I also have a few unhappy players so squad morale is not the best.

Watching this tactic in action is really interesting - especially with the ball, as sometimes it just flows brilliantly and ends with a superb team goal. Defensively there are some issues. As mentioned, I've had some heavy defeats and I think teams with pacy wingers, usually playing 4-2-3-1, are exploiting my higher d line and lack of full-backs. My wide players are usually caught too high up the pitch to offer any resistance.

As a result, I've developed a 4-4-1-1 which uses similar instructions to deploy against bigger teams away from home. Hopefully this will keep my players happy too, as I have the likes of Clyne and Flanagan not happy about lack of games as the 3-5-1-1 doesn't have room for them.

All in all, this thread has really opened my eyes to the very fluid system and I'm enjoying FM more than ever.

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

On 7/6/2016 at 05:50, Joe. said:

This is an excellent thread with a great insight into how you've created your tactics to suit your needs.

Once I read through this, I was inspired to try something similar. I searched for a club I thought could manage it, but also a club not at the top of their league - somewhere I could create a legacy of sorts.

I've chosen Everton - Baines and Coleman are ideal wide men, rotated with Deulofeu/Lennon. Cleverley and McCarthy just inside them. I had Barry as DLP but wasn't convinced, and I'm rotating Lukaku & Niasse up front with Barkley in behind. I'm building my squad slowly, and don't have the depth just yet but it's getting there.

Initially I went to exactly replicate this tactic, and only brought in a new keeper in the first transfer window - but I soon discovered that it just didn't quite work. I started the season brightly though, but after a dip in form I couldn't win for love nor money.

I've added in 'work ball into box' as I found that without that, my players were getting lots of shots on goal but without creating great chances. I've also changed the two wider central defenders to BPD. I did this as, firstly, I can't see John Stones playing any other way - and secondly, I found that they would drift a little too wide for my liking. This has kept them closer together and means we retain possession from the outset - it didn't mean that I was just keeping possession for possession's sake and actually found that it opened up the opposition defence quite nicely. I've also dropped Jagielka in favour of Funes Mori, and in January I brought in Eder Balanta (BPD) and Steven N'Zonzi (DLP) who have both been fantastic.

I'm approaching the final ten games of the season now, and having been one game away from the sack, I made the mentioned tweaks, beat Chelsea 1-0 and haven't looked back since.

I've also got my youth intake training to play exactly the same way, though it has literally been 1 week since they came through so hopefully I'll be reaping the rewards of that before too long.

So yea - thank you for this thread. I'm thoroughly enjoying my save, and hope that I can keep up the good form for many seasons to come!

This is absolutely brilliant. Glad you enjoyed it and things are working out for you! 

On 7/6/2016 at 11:09, Kenco said:

So I've been using the Total Football system with Liverpool for a few months now, with very mixed results! I'm trying to keep the squad as much like the real squad for now, so along with the pre-arranged signings of Grujic and Matip I've also bought Karius and Mane. I like the idea of a defensive winger one side, offensive on the other and my best results come from Moreno on the left, Mane on the right. Mane is not good defensively, so I ensure I play one of my more defensive minded MCs next to him, such as Lucas or Allen. On the other side, Moreno is good defensively so I play a more attack-minded MC next to him. Grujic likes to "get forward whenever possible", so he works well here. With the DLP I'm not sure who is the best for this role. I started with Can as he has the best defensive attributes but recently changed to play Henderson there as he is my best MC and likes to dictate tempo, which I assume goes well with a playmaker role.

I've also played this tactic with a much higher tempo and closing down much more, which I think is causing my players to tire more.

I believe that my problem is partly down to the lack of tactical familiarity, which will improve over time, and also some players perhaps not being suited to the system. I also have a few unhappy players so squad morale is not the best.

Watching this tactic in action is really interesting - especially with the ball, as sometimes it just flows brilliantly and ends with a superb team goal. Defensively there are some issues. As mentioned, I've had some heavy defeats and I think teams with pacy wingers, usually playing 4-2-3-1, are exploiting my higher d line and lack of full-backs. My wide players are usually caught too high up the pitch to offer any resistance.

As a result, I've developed a 4-4-1-1 which uses similar instructions to deploy against bigger teams away from home. Hopefully this will keep my players happy too, as I have the likes of Clyne and Flanagan not happy about lack of games as the 3-5-1-1 doesn't have room for them.

All in all, this thread has really opened my eyes to the very fluid system and I'm enjoying FM more than ever.

Yes, having quality fullbacks will make a big difference as to whether a back 3 is appropriate for you or not. I am not too familiar with the Liverpool squad's attributes after a couple of months away from playing but I would expect a Clyne could play further forward and you have a couple of very good midfield options.

[Tajerio]

I've had great success with RC Strasbourg Alsace modifying this into a 3-3-4-0.  I tried to play it more as less as written the first couple years and it actually worked ok--largely because I have two pacy wingers who were constantly tapping in one another's crosses, not because the rest of my team was actually that well suited to it.  Then I made it up to Ligue 1, and struggled the first third of the season or so due to the lack of pace from my defensive line, failure of my wingers to track back consistently, and, frankly, the lack of quality in my MCR and MCL.  Then my CF got injured and went out for a couple games, leaving me with no one who could really play the role.  

So I said "screw it," moved the wingers up to AM to have them mark the fullbacks, and put another AMC in.  It helped us immeasurably--we thrashed OL 3-0 our first game with it and never looked back, with a 5-1 home victory over PSG and a 7-1 shelling of En Avant being the highlights so far, as we forged our way up into the CL qualification spots.  I think it's mainly helped by spreading out the pressure we exert in the attacking third of the field.  But it's also allowed me to play more of my better players, since I had another good AMC who would only ever come on as the sub for the primary, but now he can sub for two guys--which also helps my CF (the best player on the team) stay fitter.  

We still tend to form the double diamonds.  The CF, who's also a natural at AMC, is still more aggressive and pushes forward ahead of it as the AM(a), while the former primary AMC still sits deeper as AM(s) and tops off the diamond (which is really funny to me because he's a newgen whose last name is Diamond).  But the fun part is that sometimes they switch off, since I put the Gets Further Forward PI on the AM(s), and the two of them seem to be smart enough not to push way ahead of the MCs simultaneously.  We seem to counterattack better this way too, with four abreast rather than three abreast and one ahead.  We never really used to score on the break, but now we do it regularly.

I also finally caved and spent actual money in the transfer market to upgrade one of my dismal MCL/MCR pairing.  I got Angelo Fulgini and taught him Arrives Late, which seems to have worked well for attacking options and also for my team not breaking down in midfield about once a half.  Started training all my CBs on quickness, too, and I think that's paying off a bit.  Whoever made the remark about them needing 15+ pace is absolutely correct.  None of them are there yet, but they're all 22 or under with decent potential left, and they've seen some increases, so I'm holding out hope.

Thanks for the thread--this tactical concept has been loads of fun!

 

 

[Earnie is God!]

Very pleased to see this thread 'bumped'. I was searching for the thread for ages, looking for anything titled 'Ajax' or something that resembled the formation but found nothing so thought it had been lost when the forum migrated to the new style.

I've had this formation saved but not been using it as I didn't have the players (as I mentioned back in May on here), but as we (Cardiff) are now an established EPL side and have money to bring in a couple of ready-made players rather than waiting for my youths to progress, I think I'm going to give it a go for the new season.

I've bought Callum Chambers who will work well in defence. Alderweireld is also available for £10m so might go for him too. Grujic has joined from Liverpool and he has some great all-round attributes. Two players have also progressed through my youth system to make it into my starting XI, Russell Biggs and Rhys Cotterill...

 

[coffeeholic]

this literally fitted my team perfectly Cruyff and Ö-zil to the Arsenal are masters!

[Ajinkya]

Hey, great tactic so far and is working very well. Great read as well. Just had one grievance, My CAM doesn't seem to be putting in good performances, he'll get the odd assist or two, but is yet to make a telling contribution to write home about. Any suggestions on what I should do?

My CAM options are Bryan Ruiz and Bruno Cesar btw, first season for Sporting Lisbon.

[bellshayavan]

[eriktous]

This thread has been a great read. Thanks, Ö-zil!

I was wondering about your youth development program, and your preference for setting individual focus to one of the broad roles. Would that not practically be the same as setting no focus at all? I mean, focusing on many attributes at the same time is almost the same as not focusing at all, right, or do players spend less time on the training ground when no focus is set?

[makul]

Someone try this system with a lower league team?

[Wasp]

I'm trying your ideas with a DLP in the DM slot. I use either a converted winger or converted full back in the midfield winger slots, depending on the strength of the opponent's wide players.

I'm not too sure on the AM - CF pairing yet, although their technical skills have produced some wonderful through balls already.

[makul]

Well I play with this tactic with Elgin City

2015/16  10 position, win relegated play-off (The press places me 10)

2016/17 7 of 10 (The press places me 10)

2017/18 1 of 10, promoted to League One (The press places me 8)

I changed AMC to CM (A) position and changed que wingers to support. Good % of position but the defence is very awful.

Edited September 2, 2016 by makul

[keithfc]

playing with 3 defenders only? It is a disaster in FM16.................

[Anaconda Vice]

3 at the back works perfectly fine if this system is used correctly. I have one multiple trophies with it. The key is in the development of your squad. Work ethic is key as well as some PPMs. I truly believe if you read this thread completely you too will see the benefits and how well this system works.

For example I managed Barcelona and would simply not have one the league by plugging this system in with the starting Barcelona team. I had no right wing with high work rate to always help the team. So I signed Jonathan Walters from Stoke and he played every match that season for me. He has 20 work rate and I believe great team work. He was in my top 3 performers that season. Tough choices had to be made however. I got rid of any player with less than 14 work rate although 15+ was preferable. Messi stayed as a luxury player that I could afford to use because I had work rate across the rest of the team. However if I had used a higher workrate player in the system instead of Messi I believe results would have been better.

Don't write off 3ATB, it works fine given the correct players and correct squad balance is used as I have found out. One season I only conceded 15 goals. Better than most 4ATB systems I would say.

[summatsupeer]

1 hour ago, keithfc said:

playing with 3 defenders only? It is a disaster in FM16.................

If you don't have the right players for it then sure, but anything is a disaster without the right players for the job

[Anaconda Vice]

Try a 3ATB of Romagnoli, Ajer and Rugani and tell me it doesn't work. It's outstanding.

[keithfc]

What my experience is if the opposite can break your press on their own half court and has a explosive winger with deep crossing, they will goal. So the pressing is extremely important in the opposite half court. 

[summatsupeer]

Or you have the wrong kind of outside CB's who can deal with winger type players when pushed up

[mooeit]

very good

[Vico Vito Pep]

When I attempt a future Barca save, would like to try this setup like how Barca lined up vs Leganes today 

[CybrSlydr]

I started a recent game with Birmingham City and I'm looking to put this in and see how it works.  I'm going to use the first post as a template and see what I might change.

For instance, I did get this to work for 2 games before the game crashed ALT-TAB back in.  We lost 1-0 to Blackburn and beat Reading 3-2 (come from behind victory). 

I did see that after the Blackburn game my Striker was playing nearly on top of the AM(A).  I was also seeing my Wingers getting caught a bit too far up the field - I'm wondering if that's because they don't have the workrate or anticipation to get back faster or what. 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Interestingly, I've been playing around with the striker role myself. The False 9 allows you to bring him into the game a lot more but then there are implications for the rest of the midfield.

I think I'm probably experimenting with a few too many variables at once but I'm playing with the combination of Very Fluid & Control and a roaming playmaker in midfield.

At times it's brilliant but there's some work to be done on consistency. May be an interesting starting point form FM2017 unless there are any major changes..

[tmason122]

Hi there! I´ve been an admirer of this system for sometime, so thought it was about time I went back to trying something like this. So far the results have been great... though only 3 games into the season, haha. Definitely have to make some tweaks for my away games, but at home this Dutch total-football is looking very destructive! 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Fantastic. I'm glad it's working for you! 

[tmason122]

On 9/21/2016 at 18:12, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Fantastic. I'm glad it's working for you! 

Yer, going well. I've been a fan of 3 CB formations in the past, but I've always had more regimented team roles, with a reliance on extremely physical wingbacks providing pace and power down the flanks to provide a lot of the attacking opportunities. I'm now 9 seasons into FM16, and after moving to a new club I've finallyhad the opportunity to experiment again with it. At my previous club I had two of the bests homegrown FBs in the league, so it didn't really make sense to shift from a back four, but my new club had terrible FBs so it was the right time to make the switch.

It's still early days with this formation.... Still need to get the players used to the formation. I have problems with being overly reliant on my left-winger scoring most of the goals, which I need to shift away from... And defensively I probably need to fit in a half-back when I am away from home, but otherwise it's going well. 

[iamneallyons]

Absolutely superb effort, thanks very much! 

I have been trying and somewhat failing for a while now to create a Cruyff inspired tactic - to the point where Cleon absolutely skinned me for one of my efforts in one of his "the art of..." threads, which was fair enough - but im learning all the time and getting better, i have created a few very effective tactics but this is the one i really want to get working. 

I will be creating this tonight and putting it into practice to see how it performs, do you have any tips or instructions on how you started out with the training/preparation in pre-season with a new save, what did you train how much match training etc?

Thanks again!

[James9]

On 06/05/2016 at 02:25, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Thank you for the kind comments everyone. I am happy to hear people are enjoying reading!

Great - glad to hear that's working for you. Funny enough, my first iteration was actually a 3-1-5-1:

Despite a significantly lower quality squad we actually over-performed hugely that season, largely due to being excellent off-the-ball. I did move away from this due to losing a few key players that summer meaning I didn't have the right players, and took 1-2 seasons to rebuild.

The reason I changed to 3-5-1-1 was that this allows a more compact defensive shape, illustrated below.

Also, in my 3-1-5-1 my striker was isolated at times but I shouldn't imagine that's an issue for you, playing without a striker!

As an Arsenal fan, it has certainly crossed my mind!

My current conclusion is that it could work, after a season or two of clever transfers, but not with the starting squad. To begin with, we don't have a left-sided centre back and neither Mertesacker or Koscielny offer much with the ball at their feet.

You'd also need a holding midfielder, and a left-sided central midfielder at least until Jack Wilshere returns to fitness.

For me, Bellerin would be an excellent option on the right flank. As a general rule, wing backs are more complete players than wingers. I'd more likely cash in on Theo and let Ox and Bellerin fight it out on the right. Up front, Ozil and Sanchez could be perfect. Not 100% sure what I'd do with Cazorla.

Arsenal's squad is a frustrating mis-match at the moment.

Ozil  to the Arsenal I hope you are still active on this post because I wanted to ask your recommendation. I am waiting on FM17 because the Arsenal side has been upgraded slightly. We now have Mustafi and Kos. I am not sure what attributes SI will give him but I was considering him for one of the Center back positions in the 3. I know I need to but another top quality Center back also. Would you recommend looking for Center backs who are good with the ball at their feet and what attributes should I be looking for. I think Granit Xhaka can play the DLP Defend role well. I also agree with Ozil and Sanchez up top. 

I was thinking of a 433/451 but the problem is what to do with Ozil. Looking at this set up it seems it could work with a little tweaking.  

Because I want to dominate midfield this formation allows me to do that. 

[Yabgu]

thanks

[gpassosbh]

Hello @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! are you planning any tactic for FM17 already??

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

Yes, I'm hoping the la salida lavolpiana mechanism works with a half-back in a back 4 (rather than wingbacks), in which case I'll work on a high-tempo possession 4-3-3.

 

And, of course, a 3-4-3

[cynathor]

I love this tactic with a passion and I've been using it for a long time now. 

Now with FM17 I'm getting clattered with this tactic. I use Man Utd. I've lost 4-0 to a Bayern team in pre season half stuffed with regens. I've been beaten 6-2 by Spurs. I've lost 4-1 to West Ham. What is going wrong? The same tactic with same personnel gave my spectacular results before. 

Carrick (my key DLP, otherwise Schweinsteiger) both are decent on strength but keep getting pressed out of the ball. My centre backs are jokes with often all 3 of them converging on one player and basically leaving players free on the far side. 

I've conceded plenty to crosses. My shots on target ratio is sub 50%. I drew against Everton at home having 26 shots but only 5 on target, most of them are inside the box but just a bit to the side. Anyone else trying this on 17 ?

[Joey Numbaz]

On 7/6/2016 at 05:50, Joe. said:

This is an excellent thread with a great insight into how you've created your tactics to suit your needs.

Once I read through this, I was inspired to try something similar. I searched for a club I thought could manage it, but also a club not at the top of their league - somewhere I could create a legacy of sorts.

I've chosen Everton - Baines and Coleman are ideal wide men, rotated with Deulofeu/Lennon. Cleverley and McCarthy just inside them. I had Barry as DLP but wasn't convinced, and I'm rotating Lukaku & Niasse up front with Barkley in behind. I'm building my squad slowly, and don't have the depth just yet but it's getting there.

Initially I went to exactly replicate this tactic, and only brought in a new keeper in the first transfer window - but I soon discovered that it just didn't quite work. I started the season brightly though, but after a dip in form I couldn't win for love nor money.

I've added in 'work ball into box' as I found that without that, my players were getting lots of shots on goal but without creating great chances. I've also changed the two wider central defenders to BPD. I did this as, firstly, I can't see John Stones playing any other way - and secondly, I found that they would drift a little too wide for my liking. This has kept them closer together and means we retain possession from the outset - it didn't mean that I was just keeping possession for possession's sake and actually found that it opened up the opposition defence quite nicely. I've also dropped Jagielka in favour of Funes Mori, and in January I brought in Eder Balanta (BPD) and Steven N'Zonzi (DLP) who have both been fantastic.

I'm approaching the final ten games of the season now, and having been one game away from the sack, I made the mentioned tweaks, beat Chelsea 1-0 and haven't looked back since.

I've also got my youth intake training to play exactly the same way, though it has literally been 1 week since they came through so hopefully I'll be reaping the rewards of that before too long.

So yea - thank you for this thread. I'm thoroughly enjoying my save, and hope that I can keep up the good form for many seasons to come!

I am also using Everton, and took your advice regarding the BPDs, it really worked. I started this in my second season (I used a variant of Cleon's possession 4-1-2-3-DM tactic to finish 2nd in the EPL in 2015-16), so I had a decent transfer budget. I picked up Chancel Mbemba to be my CDC, flanked with Galloway and Stones. It worked brilliantly, until the middle of December. I was in second place with only 7 goals allowed through 13 league games. Mbemba was probably my MVP. But then it just fell apart, like the league figured it out.

Chelsea beat me 4-1, Tottenham beat me 5-3, in a game where Mbemba's mistakes directly led to three goals, and then after a 2-0 win over Palace, Newcastle of all teams beat me 4-2, and it could have been worse (Mbemba sat that one out, too tired)

Teams started attacking me from the flanks instead of up the middle. So instead of getting Mbemba, Stones and Galloway racing back and cutting off the threat from the middle (the high line helps this, it gives them time to catch up), they'd dump it down in the corner, pass it to the box, then Mbemba would try to close that guy down, but Galloway or Stones was already on him depending on the side the play was on. This leaves the striker in the middle wide open and he punches in an easy goal. It's been a disaster all of the sudden, and I have no clue how to stop it. Do I need a more defensive DLP? Seems like the squad is a lot more solid when I play Besic there. But he gets a yellow card almost every game, so I have play Lewis Cook there a lot, who is more offensive.

I suppose I could move McCarthy back to the DLP and Cook over the MCR. I am just completely flummoxed here. If anyone has any ideas, I am all ears.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Joey Numbaz

[Joey Numbaz]

On 5/23/2016 at 09:59, swisso said:

Excellent thread Ö-zil-to-the-Arsenal!, I've adopted the 3-6-1 for use with Ajax and it's working very well domestically.

I'd developed a 4-2-3-1-Wide and we had incredible amounts of possession without doing much with it, mostly because of a low tempo and restrictive shape and passing options. So i binned the Retain Possession, Work Ball and Low Tempo TI's and moved to a highly flexible shape with a 5 man midfield and trusted the intelligent players to know where to sit. It's worked wonders domestically, nobody can hold a candle to us and it's allowed me to risk youngsters much sooner!

My only trouble is, we don't fare so well against European giants. Especially against teams employing an AML and AMR. The defence will shift over to whatever flank is being attacked, leaving gaps in the centre as 1 CB is pulled over to the attacker, and the other 2 CB's shift over. Often see a midfield runner or the opposite winger come running through the centre.

We're prone to balls over the top too, but that's the price of a high defensive line!

This is exactly the problem I'm having ... did you ever figure it out?

[AFCDons2011]

Just want to say Ö-zil-to-the-Arsenal!  that I have absolutely loved the football that has been produced using this tactic, and I've not even optimized the players for it yet. A few things I've noticed and am trying to change though are the defensive solidarity and the types of shots that are being made.

I've had to add works ball into box to stop my players constantly shooting from distance and losing the attacking advantage and of course giving possession back unnecessarily.

Against good sides, in Europe and also Stoke for some reason, my defense just collapses. I'm Manchester United and Giroud twice and Diouf once just absolutely blitzed my defense. Also in Europe I'm often leading and then suddenly, I get hit by two or three goals very quickly. My defenders are not perfect for the system, but sometimes the back three and the five midfielders defend, press and work together perfectly. Then suddenly it all goes wrong very quickly.

Either way, I'm pressing on with this system because I love the football it's producing. Can see me having a big overhaul of the squad though in the years to come in game.

 

[axehan1]

15 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

This is exactly the problem I'm having ... did you ever figure it out?

Defenders with pace /acceleration above 15 should stop you getting caught out with those long balls over the top.

[Kenco]

So after adapting your 3511 into a 4411, I used it for 10 seasons with quite a bit of success, including 6 straight league titles.  But then Man City came back with their money and took over, winning the league twice in a row.  Some of my full-backs were now on the decline and I hadn't found any gems to replace them, so I decided to switch back to 3511 one more time.  If it failed this time, who cares?  I was getting bored of 4411.  

But the 3511 worked a treat this team, attacking fluidity was amazing and I was racking up some serious scores.  Managed to score at least 5 in a game for 7 matches in a row at one point, ended the season with my best ever points haul of 96 and scored 118 goals.  Defensively I got found out a couple of times, but it was worth it to see the football at the attacking end.  My striker and two wide men get all the goals and assists.

Definitely sticking with this now and will probably take on a smaller team and see if I can get them playing this style.

[Joey Numbaz]

On 10/22/2016 at 16:22, axehan1 said:

Defenders with pace /acceleration above 15 should stop you getting caught out with those long balls over the top.

Thanks, I've got that problem solved already. Signing fast Mbemba and dropping Jagielka did the trick there. It's not the long balls over the top that are the problem. It's that

Quote

The defence will shift over to whatever flank is being attacked, leaving gaps in the centre as 1 CB is pulled over to the attacker, and the other 2 CB's shift over. Often see a midfield runner or the opposite winger come running through the centre.

This is the big issue. I agree, big fast defenders have definitely solved the long-ball over the top problem. It's this other problem that is suddenly killing me. I just have no idea of how to fix it.

[Anaconda Vice]

2 hours ago, Joey Numbaz said:

Thanks, I've got that problem solved already. Signing fast Mbemba and dropping Jagielka did the trick there. It's not the long balls over the top that are the problem. It's that

This is the big issue. I agree, big fast defenders have definitely solved the long-ball over the top problem. It's this other problem that is suddenly killing me. I just have no idea of how to fix it.

Used this system for 5 seasons so hopefully I can help you.

Does your DLP (D) have stays back at all times?

Who are your wide players, work rates?