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Why Would He Retire This Young?


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When browsing the game I have loaded with every Asian nation active, I stumbled upon the 2039 Palestinian national team. To my surprise, their national manager is a 23-year old who was a first team regular for the national team, yet looking at his profile, he retired at age 22 after playing in Kuwait to become the national head coach. Why would the game retire a promising young player for a managerial role like this, considering, to the best of my knowledge, career-ending injuries are not included in the game. Besides, 23 is ridiculously young to be in charge of a national program like this. Any ideas as to why this happened? I would post a picture, but I don't know how...

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_White_(football)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/news/6026845/Youngest-football-manager-takes-charge-of-worlds-worst-team.html

Just two examples.... it happens, who knows why he retired.. got tired? .. heart wasn't in it?

In game it was probably an extremely low ambition rating, alongside other stats and events..

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Yeah. In my country, just last week a 22-year old announced his retirement from football - he was once considered to be very talented youngster, was U-19 national team captain, but now hung up his boots. No injury, just lack of motivation or accepting that football isn't the answer for everything in life.

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Curtis Woodhouse

Sebastian Deisler

Carlos Roa

Dean Ashton

Rory Allen

Eric Cantona

Marco van Basten

Espen Baardsen

Shane Supple

Fabrice Muamba

Just a few examples of people who retired early for different reasons.

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A player like Cantona would have had about 5 years left playing in him. Sheringham played until he was 40.

Cantona did retire early. He had no reason to retire, he wasn't injured, he wasn't hampered by injuries.

He simply decided to call it a day.

Therefore, he retired early, before his contract had expired, and just short of his 31st birthday.

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Very few people can actually make a living from football. If you're a semi-pro, it is reasonable to focus on your education while you're playing and then get a real job afterwards...

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Very few people can actually make a living from football. If you're a semi-pro, it is reasonable to focus on your education while you're playing and then get a real job afterwards...

And something that unfortunately not enough people did. Seems the tide is changing on that these days though, even though a footballer somehow managing to achieve a degree is treated like they've grown an extra head in the media. We've come a long way from Pat Nevin being nicknamed the Professor for reading a book on the team bus though.

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A player like Cantona would have had about 5 years left playing in him. Sheringham played until he was 40.

Cantona did retire early. He had no reason to retire, he wasn't injured, he wasn't hampered by injuries.

He simply decided to call it a day.

Therefore, he retired early, before his contract had expired, and just short of his 31st birthday.

Cantona was still in his prime really, could have gone on for a lot longer.

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When browsing the game I have loaded with every Asian nation active, I stumbled upon the 2039 Palestinian national team. To my surprise, their national manager is a 23-year old who was a first team regular for the national team, yet looking at his profile, he retired at age 22 after playing in Kuwait to become the national head coach. Why would the game retire a promising young player for a managerial role like this, considering, to the best of my knowledge, career-ending injuries are not included in the game. Besides, 23 is ridiculously young to be in charge of a national program like this. Any ideas as to why this happened? I would post a picture, but I don't know how...

Hey Keikamara,

Career ending injuries are indeed in the game. Another reason for his retirement may have been a long period without a club. Were either of these the case?

Cheers,

Seb.

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Besides, 23 is ridiculously young to be in charge of a national program like this. Any ideas as to why this happened? I would post a picture, but I don't know how...

Paul Watson at 25 was the manager of Pohnpe...

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Surprised no one has mentioned Michael Johnson.

I don't fully disagree, but I'm sure if he had had the professionalism to become the NT manager (of anywhere, never mind England), he also would have had the professionalism to to stay a player.

Must be one of Seb's reasons

edit - I suppose Johnson partially falls under the injury thing but I'm sure there is thought to have been more to it than that.

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Richard Sadlier!

Michael Johnson also had some mental health problems (according to the ever-reliable-wikipedia page). He was quoted as saying something like the media to leave him alone and live the rest of his life in peace.

I guess the high life isn't for all.

There was also Luke Chadwick - he didn't retire, but he couldn't handle the pressure of being at such a big team.

And lets not forget Sonny Pike - although he did return to play non-league under Luke Pike (his birth name)

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Curtis Woodhouse

Sebastian Deisler

Carlos Roa

Dean Ashton

Rory Allen

Eric Cantona

Marco van Basten

Espen Baardsen

Shane Supple

Fabrice Muamba

Just a few examples of people who retired early for different reasons.

Yes, but those are real life examples. I think the OP is wondering why this guy in the game retired early. Not whether it is realistic or not. You have to understand that even as amazing and realistic this game is, it is still a game and is not possible to completely mimic real life. Yes, realisticly people retire early, but their reasons for that are probably too deep and unique for FM to ever have them programmed in. So, in real life, a semi pro player retires young because it is just not financially sound for him to remain a semi pro player and needs to focus on a normal pedestrian career to financially support himself and his family, but that rational cannot be programmed into the game lol. It is not possible to program that aspect into this game. So, when it comes to early retirements in this game is most likely comes down to injuries, ambition and CA/PA. So, in regards to the OP, that player probably had the desire to coach after he was done playing. Due to that desire, the AI offered him that position and he accepted because his desire to coach + his CA/PA as a player, compared to his CA/PA of coaching.

People have to understand that this is still just a game and is still very far from mimicking real life. So, even though in real life, people retire young, that doesn't rationalize why the guy in the OP retired young.

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I think the latter is probably the case given he was playing in Kuwait - I have a save where I've managed in Malaysia and Vietnam and a lot of the youngsters that I don't sign on pro deals leave the club and retire a few months later when they realise they're not good to play at any pro level. Whilst the OP's player may well have been a NT regular, playing in the Kuwaiti league was probably a struggle and he couldn't find a new deal.

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Yes, but those are real life examples. I think the OP is wondering why this guy in the game retired early. Not whether it is realistic or not. You have to understand that even as amazing and realistic this game is, it is still a game and is not possible to completely mimic real life. Yes, realisticly people retire early, but their reasons for that are probably too deep and unique for FM to ever have them programmed in. So, in real life, a semi pro player retires young because it is just not financially sound for him to remain a semi pro player and needs to focus on a normal pedestrian career to financially support himself and his family, but that rational cannot be programmed into the game lol. It is not possible to program that aspect into this game. So, when it comes to early retirements in this game is most likely comes down to injuries, ambition and CA/PA. So, in regards to the OP, that player probably had the desire to coach after he was done playing. Due to that desire, the AI offered him that position and he accepted because his desire to coach + his CA/PA as a player, compared to his CA/PA of coaching.

People have to understand that this is still just a game and is still very far from mimicking real life. So, even though in real life, people retire young, that doesn't rationalize why the guy in the OP retired young.

Actually in FM15 when it first came out I had something very similar, I was in the lower leagues and there was a player I fancied signing, I approached him but so did Coventry, this guy was 21 or 22 and my scout said he could be a good League 2 player in the future.

Anyway he signed for Coventry, I had a look to see what contract he had signed and was surprised to see he had signed as a coach and he had retired from playing football.

I went over to the bugs forum and reported it, SI at first thought it was a bit funny also, this player was never going to be a top player but he could have had a decent career in the lower leagues, it was not like he was earning a fortune as a coach either.

(this is a real player)

SI looked in to it, I was very surprised at the lengths they went to, they found an article about the player, I think from some local newspaper and it did go on about how he could make a good coach in the future.

While it was still up in the air if he should have retired from playing so young, it certainly did show that if a player is programed into the game he could make the choice to take his career in another direction.

At least I just put it into my head that the guy wanted to get his coaching experience as he felt it would suit him better in the future than his playing football would.

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What? You're simultaneously telling people not to read too much into the game and bringing out this 23 y/o coaching desire prior to retiring.... Pick one

The devs have already given the two reasons that do rationalize it, both totally realistic

Huh? Pick one? What do you mean? I stayed on one side lol. I simply said the OP is asking why the player in FM retired young, and I explained why i think it is. But also stated that all reasons for retirement in real life cannot be coded into the game. Like a player retiring for personal reasons like it being financially sound to retire from football and go to med school or something or take over the family business. Those reasons cannot be programmed into the game, that is what I am saying. The OP isn't asking why people retire young in real life, he is asking why this specific guy in FM retired young. Posting a list of real life people who retired young doesn't answer that question.

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Actually in FM15 when it first came out I had something very similar, I was in the lower leagues and there was a player I fancied signing, I approached him but so did Coventry, this guy was 21 or 22 and my scout said he could be a good League 2 player in the future.

Anyway he signed for Coventry, I had a look to see what contract he had signed and was surprised to see he had signed as a coach and he had retired from playing football.

I went over to the bugs forum and reported it, SI at first thought it was a bit funny also, this player was never going to be a top player but he could have had a decent career in the lower leagues, it was not like he was earning a fortune as a coach either.

(this is a real player)

SI looked in to it, I was very surprised at the lengths they went to, they found an article about the player, I think from some local newspaper and it did go on about how he could make a good coach in the future.

While it was still up in the air if he should have retired from playing so young, it certainly did show that if a player is programed into the game he could make the choice to take his career in another direction.

At least I just put it into my head that the guy wanted to get his coaching experience as he felt it would suit him better in the future than his playing football would.

Ya, like I explained in my post, the player was programmed to have the desire to be a coach one day. Due to that desire, teams (you and the AI) can offer him a coach contract any time. That happened in that situation and he chose it because it is probably coded to look at the guys CA/PA as a player and it is doesn't reach a certain level, then he accepts a coaching job offer. Which is cool. But, what the game can't program into the game is a semi pro player getting married and having a kid and realizing he needs to hang up the cleats and get a 9-5 job. Those situations happen all the time in real life, but that is not a reason for retirement that is programmed into the game. Something like that cannot be programmed into the game other than random selection.

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Huh? Pick one? What do you mean? I stayed on one side lol. I simply said the OP is asking why the player in FM retired young, and I explained why i think it is. But also stated that all reasons for retirement in real life cannot be coded into the game. Like a player retiring for personal reasons like it being financially sound to retire from football and go to med school or something or take over the family business. Those reasons cannot be programmed into the game, that is what I am saying. The OP isn't asking why people retire young in real life, he is asking why this specific guy in FM retired young. Posting a list of real life people who retired young doesn't answer that question.

No read the opening post again

When browsing the game I have loaded with every Asian nation active, I stumbled upon the 2039 Palestinian national team. To my surprise, their national manager is a 23-year old who was a first team regular for the national team, yet looking at his profile, he retired at age 22 after playing in Kuwait to become the national head coach. Why would the game retire a promising young player for a managerial role like this, considering, to the best of my knowledge, career-ending injuries are not included in the game. Besides, 23 is ridiculously young to be in charge of a national program like this. Any ideas as to why this happened? I would post a picture, but I don't know how...

No - he was asking why a 23 year old in the game would retire and take up a coaching role. And specified it was a bit unrealistic. And said that it was not included in the game to retire someone young. And that an international position like this is ridiculous.

It does happen in the game, it is programmed and it is supported by real life cases.

It does happen in real life and it happens often, Brendan Rodgers for example.

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No but that could be why the guy retired from the OP, unless of course it was an injury.

No, he retired because he had the desire to become a coach after a career as a player. A club offered him that and then the coding of FM compared that to his play CA/PA and the response that was generated was to accept that offer.

I originally responded to this thread because I chuckled after the OP asked why THIS PLAYER retired so young and then someone responds with a list of real life people who retired in real life. I laughed at that because that response offers nothing and does not answer the OPs question. Those real life people who retired in real life at a young age had reasons that are probably not possible to program into this game. But, FM doesn't offer explanations on retirements, they just say play X is retired on this date. Some actually retire and some retire and then become coaches, and some retire due to being offered a coaching job. That is all that is programmed into the game. So the factors of retirement in the game a very vague and simple compared to the real life reasons. That is all I am saying. It is not possible for FM to program in those highly detailed and stressful/confusing retirement reasons. So, in this game there is probably a formula that compares some hidden attributes, like PA and ambition. Yes, in real life people retire young due to lack of ambition but that lack of ambition is usually realized by low wages, wife and kids and the needs to making a better living to support a family.

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No read the opening post again

No - he was asking why a 23 year old in the game would retire and take up a coaching role. And specified it was a bit unrealistic. And said that it was not included in the game to retire someone young. And that an international position like this is ridiculous.

It does happen in the game, it is programmed and it is supported by real life cases.

It does happen in real life and it happens often, Brendan Rodgers for example.

I am not denying it is unrealistic. I know that it is realistic. It happens all the time. I even mentioned those reasons in my posts. Never stated anything in any of my posts as unrealistic, so I do not know why that is the topic of discussion. All I said is that in real life, real life people retire for so many different reasons. Those reasons cannot be programmed into the game. In fact, FM leaves the reasons out. There is just some algorithm where if a guy meets a certain parameter, he retires. If a guy has the desire to become a staff member after he retires and also meets a certain parameter, you can probably get him to retire earlier as planned to become a staff member.

I thought the OP was asking why that FM player retired young, not why real life people retire young, thought that part of pretty obvious. Thought he was just curious why that specific guy retired young, like what in FM triggered it. I apologize for the confusion. I read the thread title as "Why would THIS guy retire young", and I went from there. Wasn't reading it as "Why would ANY guy retire young". My rational was at an FM level not a real life level.

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No, he retired because he had the desire to become a coach after a career as a player. A club offered him that and then the coding of FM compared that to his play CA/PA and the response that was generated was to accept that offer.

You seem to be disagreeing with me while at the same time agreeing with me. Unless I am missing something?

I am saying that he did want to become a coach, also as I have shown, the game had it programed that he would like to move into coaching at some point.

Also as I said with my example, in my head he simply thought it would be a better idea to get into the coaching side now rather than later as it would be more beneficial to him in the long run.

Yes the second part is in my mind but it is entirely possible that a player would do this.

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You seem to be disagreeing with me while at the same time agreeing with me. Unless I am missing something?

I am saying that he did want to become a coach, also as I have shown, the game had it programed that he would like to move into coaching at some point.

Also as I said with my example, in my head he simply thought it would be a better idea to get into the coaching side now rather than later as it would be more beneficial to him in the long run.

Yes the second part is in my mind but it is entirely possible that a player would do this.

Which is why I am confused why you are disagreeing with me lol. I mentioned all of that in my first post in this thread lol.

Like I said, I am reading the OPs question as "why did this guy in FM retire young", while other people in this thread are approaching the Op's question as "Why would any person in real life retire young". And that is when I responded in this thread, after a person though the OP wanted a list of people in real life who retired young. Though the OP wanted to find out how/why this fm player retired young. So, real life examples don't give a reason, but yes it supports the realism of young retirement, but I didn't think that is what the OP was looking for. THought he was looking at it in an FM level thinking and coding. I apologize for the confusion.

There is a difference between REALISM and WHY. I thought the OP was asking WHY this happened in his game and not whether it was REALISTIC or not.

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This is a long-running problem in FM. I always run a large database and as many leagues as possible and I've see this happen countless times in every version.

The promising youngsters from weaker footballing countries realise that they are, or have the potential to be, better than most of their fellow countrymen. This means that they want to play for clubs outside of their home nation. Due to them being foreigners, which you are only allowed a certain amount of in a number of countries, foreign clubs are unwilling to sign these players as they have better options available. Unfortunately, after realising that none of these clubs are ever going to pick them up, they don't lower their ambition and they still refuse to sign for even the top clubs in their home nation.

Some of the worst examples I have seen were of an 18 year old Jordanian, who was the third best striker for the country, despite his tender age. He came through at Al-Faisaly, who had the second highest reputation in Jordan at the time, but he refused to extend his initial contract with them. I was managing Al-Ahli, who had the highest reputation in Jordan and had won the Asian Champions League, but he wouldn't even discuss terms with me. Not a single club other than mine were interested in signing him. I'm guessing that every club in Jordan realised that he wouldn't be interested in signing a contract with them, while all of the foreign clubs had found better options. He retired at 18 years old, unable to find a new club. (FM14)

In a test game, a North Korean with a PA of 198 appeared without a club. Nobody ever picked up on the lad and he disappeared without ever playing football. The same happened with a Laotian with a PA in the 180s. (FM14)

While managing Uzbekistan, I had a whole host of 18-21 year old Uzbek players who were in the national team. None of these players ever signed new contracts with any club and they all retired early. The same happened with several older players in their late 20s who were first team regulars for club and country in their home nation. (FM15)

With the last two examples, both of these players were from nations with inactive leagues. As somebody who often manages smaller nations, I have found that this problem constantly occurs throughout the series. I don't know if this is due to the players' ambition being too high or contracts not being handled appropriately in inactive leagues, but this has been an ongoing problem.

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Which is why I am confused why you are disagreeing with me lol. I mentioned all of that in my first post in this thread lol.

..And in my response to your post I posted an example of what you said that happened to me in the game, I don't think I disagreed with you at anytime.

Guess it was just a misunderstanding.

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  • 2 years later...
On 07/01/2016 at 07:02, Draakon said:

Yeah. In my country, just last week a 22-year old announced his retirement from football - he was once considered to be very talented youngster, was U-19 national team captain, but now hung up his boots. No injury, just lack of motivation or accepting that football isn't the answer for everything in life.

Karl Erik Luigend?

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On 07/01/2016 at 18:21, Afro_Stud said:

This is a long-running problem in FM. I always run a large database and as many leagues as possible and I've see this happen countless times in every version.

The promising youngsters from weaker footballing countries realise that they are, or have the potential to be, better than most of their fellow countrymen. This means that they want to play for clubs outside of their home nation. Due to them being foreigners, which you are only allowed a certain amount of in a number of countries, foreign clubs are unwilling to sign these players as they have better options available. Unfortunately, after realising that none of these clubs are ever going to pick them up, they don't lower their ambition and they still refuse to sign for even the top clubs in their home nation.

Some of the worst examples I have seen were of an 18 year old Jordanian, who was the third best striker for the country, despite his tender age. He came through at Al-Faisaly, who had the second highest reputation in Jordan at the time, but he refused to extend his initial contract with them. I was managing Al-Ahli, who had the highest reputation in Jordan and had won the Asian Champions League, but he wouldn't even discuss terms with me. Not a single club other than mine were interested in signing him. I'm guessing that every club in Jordan realised that he wouldn't be interested in signing a contract with them, while all of the foreign clubs had found better options. He retired at 18 years old, unable to find a new club. (FM14)

In a test game, a North Korean with a PA of 198 appeared without a club. Nobody ever picked up on the lad and he disappeared without ever playing football. The same happened with a Laotian with a PA in the 180s. (FM14)

While managing Uzbekistan, I had a whole host of 18-21 year old Uzbek players who were in the national team. None of these players ever signed new contracts with any club and they all retired early. The same happened with several older players in their late 20s who were first team regulars for club and country in their home nation. (FM15)

With the last two examples, both of these players were from nations with inactive leagues. As somebody who often manages smaller nations, I have found that this problem constantly occurs throughout the series. I don't know if this is due to the players' ambition being too high or contracts not being handled appropriately in inactive leagues, but this has been an ongoing problem.

It's a difficult balancing act, since the alternatives are (i) it being too easy to sign talents capable of playing at far higher level on a Bosman simply because the game doesn't match them to any other club (ii) unattached players being aggressively matched to clubs of the right region/level even if that club doesn't need them, resulting in unrealistically bloated squads and financial instability (iii) unattached and un-shortlisted players being aggressively matched to clubs in inactive leagues whether a plausible signing or not and (iv) unattached players remaining available on free transfers for years. Arguably each of these is more unbalancing and unrealistic than just retiring the players nobody good/rich enough wants after a few months, with the first two options being particularly bad.

International pool members disappearing from a national team you're  team is about the only time it really matters (and arguably this is where the game logic should kick in and send injury free unattached senior internationals to inactive clubs whose squad composition & finances don't matter much if they're not on anyone's scouting shortlist; random rich Arab clubs are a plausible destination for international-class misfits IRL). Otherwise it's no worse than the game being topped up with "grey" players you can't sign no matter how much they might suit you.

The Jordanian case sounds particularly bad since you'd imagine someone would consider talking to the biggest club in their home country if nobody else was interested in signing them, but in general leagues having players who are too good for the general standard on wages that are too low is a bigger issue than disappearing internationals except in the rare case when you happen to be managing the national team. And sadly, there's nothing particularly unrealistic about a North Korean or Laotian with great potential failing to ever have a football career.

 

Edited by enigmatic
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The game itself does retire players 'early' if they are without a club for a long period. I'm not sure how long it needs to be, but otherwise the database gets bloated with clubless players.

Player starts the game with a club, contract runs out and he is a free agent. If he is not picked up on a contract in, say, 5 seasons, the game retires him and removes him from the database, or moves him into staff roles. With Newgens being created every season, the player database needs to be controlled somehow - this is the way it has been managed in the game.

Difficult balancing act for SI to manage, but there is only so much that can be 'programmed' to happen, and only so much that can be 'hard-coded' to happen.

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