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The Art of Possession Football


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Been following this thread from the beginning and always played posession style football with FM. I firmly believe, regardless of player ability, you need to control the game if you want to be able to compete at the top on a regular basis. I'm trying to show this with my FC Koeln save who begin the season with the worst passing and stamina stats (see team comparison screenshot) but also rank fairly poorly in important attributes usually associated with possesion style football i.e. technique, decisions, first touch. The screenshot below is from Jan 2016 and you can see that the team doesn't look capable on paper (note: I always disable first window transfers so there have been no personnel improvements).

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However now you'll see that with a good possession system in place, this same team can rank the highest in average possession and passes completed. Second in the league only to Bayern Munich too. Pre-season results were very poor and I began the campaign with a number of draws but kept faith in the system until tactic familiarity reached 100% and now it's paying off.

I always play on Control because the extra aggression helps to impose ourselves on the pitch, particularly because my players lack quality so I don't want to risk superior teams getting comfortable playing in front of us. I use a Highly Structured philosophy because I need my players to stick to their roles, much like Louis van Gaal's teams—the idea being that my inferior team can beat superior teams with superior tactics. I use the Be More Expressive shout to offset the rigidness and hoperfully offer a little variation in attack. I think it works because we're the second highest goal scorers in the league.

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I always play with the highest defensive line possible too because I want to box the opponent in their own half so we can aggressively press the ball and shut off passing lanes and this can only work if they have little room to play out of the back. Pushing the defense to the half way line means we can lose the team shape in favour of pressure on the ball carrier, who will hopefully hit the ball long due to a lack of passing options. My defence lack any real pace so you would think it is suicide but, in this system, they only need anticipation and height to win aerial battles when the opponents clear the ball.

A downside to playing a high line is that there will be little to no space to operate in and around the opponent's box, hence why I don't use a central attacking midfielder. Instead I use a defensive midfielder, on the defend duty unlike Cleon who used his on support, which allows me to play with wing backs. These guys will overlap my inside forwards to provide width. One of the most common patterns I see in attack is an inside forward cutting inside the pitch dragging over a fullback and/or a midfielder which then, in turn, creates space for my wing back to whip in a cross or pull it back to the edge of the area. The complete wing back roles are far too direct when it comes to crossing and dribbling, all risky for possession, so I use the wing back role with PIs like Stay Wider to emulate a less risky complete wing back. However they are very aggressive in attack so I offset this with the DM on defend duty who always ensures there's at least 3 people behind the ball ready for the counter. Ideally this guy will also be good in the air to win headers and recycle possession after long clearances.

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You'll also notice I play with a deep lying forward because I like to play with somebody who can hold up the ball. For two reasons really: 1) dwelling on the ball draws out a CB which in turn creates space for players to make forward runs and 2) offer a plan B in case we cross the ball into the box or have to clear it long.

Some of you may be wondering why I play my roaming playmaker on the left side and my box-to-box to the right, especially when Cleon said how important it is to have his two playmakers playing close to each other. I did this because I want my players to exploit or attack the space. There should be no clear space in the opponent's half for them to be able to break into a counter. This is the most crucial part of the system, otherwise we'll be left beaten and frustrated. The inside forward on attack will look to break through the defence and get in the box as much as possible like a second striker, so I want my most aggressive central midfielder to attack the space that he's vacated. Then I expect my DM to step into midfield to pick up any second balls or clearances and then recycle possession and restart another attack. If it bypasses the DM then I expect my centre back on stopper duty to step in and make an interception, thus restarting another attack.

It's all about creating overloads and not allowing the opponent to start counter attacks. My plan is to finish high up the league as possible to get a healthy transfer kitty and bring in some young players with the right attributes, gradually building a team that can compete with Bayern. Will try to update as I progress.

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Excellent post wpmk :thup:

I love to see how so many systems are showing a different sort of Duty distribution lately. It's obviously largely to do with this thread, but it's just such a welcome change from seeing systems weighed down with Attack Duty after Attack Duty. An element of finesse is arriving, and that's excellent to see.

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Thanks RTHerringbone.

This system has really been the work of the last two years after trying to over-achieve with two teams in the lower euro-leagues; Hajduk Split and IFK Goteburg. Don't get to play much but I found it more interesting when I have no immediate player bias. I took both of those teams to Europa League finals but it was hard to measure success because I never played beyond 1.5 to 2 seasons. But seeing the same thing work again for FM16 with FC Koeln in a more competitve league feels like success to me.

You're right, it's finesse which makes the difference. I know it's not really recommended (and probably not so obvious in my post) but I use quite a few PIs e.g. the wing backs, making the box-to-box move into channels. For me they just add a few cherries and, perhaps, offer a little more than the out-of-the-box roles. That's the good thing about using Highly Structured philosophies because you know your players will listen to these instructions.

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Thanks RTHerringbone.

This system has really been the work of the last two years after trying to over-achieve with two teams in the lower euro-leagues; Hajduk Split and IFK Goteburg. Don't get to play much but I found it more interesting when I have no immediate player bias. I took both of those teams to Europa League finals but it was hard to measure success because I never played beyond 1.5 to 2 seasons. But seeing the same thing work again for FM16 with FC Koeln in a more competitve league feels like success to me.

You're right, it's finesse which makes the difference. I know it's not really recommended (and probably not so obvious in my post) but I use quite a few PIs e.g. the wing backs, making the box-to-box move into channels. For me they just add a few cherries and, perhaps, offer a little more than the out-of-the-box roles. That's the good thing about using Highly Structured philosophies because you know your players will listen to these instructions.

A brilliant post that you did above :thup:

I can only echo what RTH says above, it's great to see people breaking away from guides such as the 12 steps, or other guides that say you should have this or that many attack/support duties and so on. More and more people are actually starting to realise they can actually play different ways and be just as successful or even more. It's also great to see people coming to grips with concepts but putting their own spin on things. I know our shapes are very similar but at the same time, yours couldn't be any different because you've used PI's to refine the style how you want it.

There is nothing wrong with using lots of PI's if you understand how they all work and it's quite clear you do. You've used them to get the players to do specific things that enhance your style. I don't think you'd find anyone who understands the game who would recommend not using them in these type of situations.

A really good post :)

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So after winning the State Championships in my Fluminense save, Pep got sacked as Bayern manager after finishing 3rd and so I thought why not? After reading this thread it gave me a completely different outlook on how to go about keeping possession, and more importantly, converting possession into goals! I can't thank you enough for this brilliant thread Cleon, I would have never even thought about not using a single attack duty in a tactic but it works so perfectly and some of the football I;m seeing is a joy to watch.

Here are my 3 tactics, I tend to use the 2 striker formations at Home and the lone striker one Away. I used the foundations of this thread and implemented it with my own style. They are far from fluid in the tactic familiarity as we're only 7 league games in and I'm still always constantly tweaking it where I see fit, so possession numbers have slightly varied from incredibly high to just high in games.

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Some stats and notable matches:

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Now compare that to how Bayern are doing irl after 16 games...

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Not doing too bad :)

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How does the HB look when you're playing 3 CBs ?

If there are 2 the he'd slot in between them both when possession is lost so I'm unclear how this would look in-game.

The two outer CBs push out wide, which when I have defenders like Boateng Alaba and Can is exactly what I hoped it would do.

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In this screenshot I was playing with the 3142 formation. As you can see the #21 (Lahm) drops in whilst #15 (Alaba) and #17 (Boateng) drift out to almost create a back 4 in the early stages of possession. As play progresses Lahm tends to join the midfield up again and provide an option to recycle possession, as you can see below which is the same move as the above screenshot but about 10 seconds later.

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Here's another example from the same game

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Several Question

does creative freedom (be more expressive/disciplined) affects team shape or vice versa?

What if i use be more expressive but highly structure team shape ?

These 2 setting is similar for me

anyone can give these a clear explanation?

thanks

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I wanna thank you guys. With your suggestions, this article and real life articles(especially about Pep's Barcelona), I enjoy to watch my team.

I use 4123 dm wide like you Cleon but different way. My setup like this;

om6qfw4f.jpg

I use flexible shape because I believe my role and duty can provide depth. And it looks like they do. HB(d) drop back and open space for DLP(d) so DLP(d) drop this opened space and open space for AP(a) who is drop the centre from flanks. Then this move provide space for my WB(a). At the end one of them always avaible for a pass when we try buildup from back.

Also we are OK at defence. Of course my tactic is not perfect, there is some situation disturb to me and I dont know its about my setup or player. But I guess I will figure out. Here one example; While my AP(a) and WB(a) move nice, I perceive issue about HB(d) and DLP(d). It is not happen always but it is happen sometimes :

c82ns76t.jpg

At the end I am OK with football I played. Here some result even with my rotation team;

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Yes they came back 2-0 but I belive I could easyly win 2-0 if I eliminated 'Much higher D-Line' TI. What a pitty.

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Totally reserved team but nice football.

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I really believe my possession would be about %65, if I read this article and real life articles at he start of season !

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Quick question, thought I'd put it in here as it relates to possession football (apologies if wrong place or been covered) - been doing pre-season tweaking with my system and noticed something on the TC screen. According to the graphics, setting shorter passing reduces width, however retain possession does not. But retain possession (obviously) reduces passing length.

I just wanted to check how much of this is just a graphical thing, how it translates into the game and how much it affects possession football (Cleon stated playing wider is better for space). I've been switching between the two and watching for differences but am having trouble picking out what is due to those TI's, what is based on other inputs, and what is basically just how that match has gone in a random outcome kind of way. I can see slight differences in terms of the stats but it could be unrelated as I can't quite see it in the game. I think it's something that without a little explanation to help is just beyond my comprehension when watching the matches

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I can get the possession stat high but arent producing goals or even enough shots on goal. And i have had very good strikers the last 2 seasons, Sturridge, Breel, Dybala. Last season i won the league and Champions league but the highest goalscorer in all competetitions was Pavon on 10 goals...meagre to say the least. So even if i hardly concede my playears arent creating enough clear chances, sometimes my players are playing into the box and then for no reason play it backwards again as if trying to find an even better opportunity and eventually losing the ball.So im happy with my buildup play but not with the play in the last third. I dont quite know how to make my players take the shot when they have a rather clear opportunity.

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I wanna thank you guys. With your suggestions, this article and real life articles(especially about Pep's Barcelona), I enjoy to watch my team.

I use 4123 dm wide like you Cleon but different way. My setup like this;

om6qfw4f.jpg

I use flexible shape because I believe my role and duty can provide depth. And it looks like they do. HB(d) drop back and open space for DLP(d) so DLP(d) drop this opened space and open space for AP(a) who is drop the centre from flanks. Then this move provide space for my WB(a). At the end one of them always avaible for a pass when we try buildup from back.

Also we are OK at defence. Of course my tactic is not perfect, there is some situation disturb to me and I dont know its about my setup or player. But I guess I will figure out. Here one example; While my AP(a) and WB(a) move nice, I perceive issue about HB(d) and DLP(d). It is not happen always but it is happen sometimes :

c82ns76t.jpg

Have you tried to use DLP-S?

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Have you tried to use DLP-S?

Yeah Yonko, I did. But when I use DLP(s), they seek of ball with AP(s) together. I tried DLP(s)-AP(a) which is more balanced than DLP(s)-AP(s) combo. Also I tried RPM. I found DLP(d) is the best combo with HB(d) especially in the big match (IMO). But I see you, I am pretty sure this happen because of my DLP role. Idk what would I do yet.

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I'm using BBM-CM(a) with suport from DM(d) and having good sucess.

I believe that in this sistema (4123) the BBM role is a must have!!

I've notice a little drop in possession %, i think because my combo is more attacking, but still getting around 60% average.

This is the setup:

DLF(s)



AP(s)_____________________________IF(s)

BBM(s)______________CM(a)

DM(d)

FB(a)____DC(d)____DC(d)____FB(a)

Gk(d)

Mentality: Control

Team Shape: Structured

TI's:

Lower Tempo

D-Line Higher

Use Offside Trap

Closing Down Much More

Play Out Of Defense

Pass Into Space

Retain Possession

Roam From Positions

I start using, in the tactic, a Raumdeuter in the Right IF(s) position, and the Right Full Back in support duty, but the team didn't play the way i want, at times they rush to the goal to quick, and my Raumdeuter just wasn't getting the goals and the ratings i thought he could have.

So i changed to a IF(s), pushing the FB to a more attacking duty, and so far i'm reallying enjoying the play.

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How about CM(S/D) with more risky passes? He would still have more freedom, but stay a bit higher than DLP(D)

Yes Der General, I did try CM(s) too. One thing about role, he is not come back to get ball as much as I want. Also DLP role has not more risky passes like CM. They are equel about risky passes. And HB(d) is not reliable option for a single pivot. It needs one more holding player IMO. I guess I will give a try DLP(s) once again as yonko's suggestion with another DM role. Thank you for your answer BTW :)

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I didn't see this reply! I was off to hospital, the old ticker isn't doing too good, I blame FM ;)

I'll take you up on that and put up a PKM up once I can get back on the game with regularity, possibly a while off though. :)

Sorry to hear that, I hope all is well :)

And sure, just post them when you're fully recovered and have the time :)

Yonko- I never tried DLP(s) with new patch, after your suggestion I just did and he plays nice for me more than other patch. Before he plays more attacking somehow. Idk, maybe I misjudged. I will watch him if DLP(s) my demand.

16.2 has brought one more notable change to the TC:

The Deep Lying Playmaker, Regista, Roaming Playmaker and Support Duty Wide Playmaker now have a mixed/moderate risky passes setting. With the risky passes instructions having a greater effect in FM16, this change will result in the default versions of these roles being less prone to attempting killer balls whereas roles with "More Risky Passes" active will see players trying to thread penetrating passes with more urgency (of course, Retain Possession will still reduce risky passes for everyone and Pass Into Space will increase risky passes for everyone).

In terms of the thinking behind the TC, there are now two distinct types of playmaker role:

First, there are the traditional creators/#10s. These are the architects of chances responsible for carrying out attacking patterns and unlocking defences with a killer pass. These include the Trequartista, Enganche, Advanced Playmaker and Wide Playmaker (Attack). In this group, the more unpredictable trequartista and enganche roles will also tend to craft chances for themselves whereas the more purely creative advanced playmaker and wide playmaker roles will be more focused on setting up teammates.

Second, there are the controllers. These players orchestrate build-up play from deeper positions by dictating the tempo of play, circulating the ball across the midfield and shifting the opposition defence whilst teammates in more advanced positions focus on finding space from which they can spring attacking moves. These include the Deep Lying Playmaker, the Roaming Playmaker, the Regista and the Wide Playmaker (Support).

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I didn't see this reply! I was off to hospital, the old ticker isn't doing too good, I blame FM ;)

I'll take you up on that and put up a PKM up once I can get back on the game with regularity, possibly a while off though. :)

Get well buddy and no more FM ragers for you :D

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Sorry to hear that, I hope all is well :)

And sure, just post them when you're fully recovered and have the time :)

16.2 has brought one more notable change to the TC:

The Deep Lying Playmaker, Regista, Roaming Playmaker and Support Duty Wide Playmaker now have a mixed/moderate risky passes setting. With the risky passes instructions having a greater effect in FM16, this change will result in the default versions of these roles being less prone to attempting killer balls whereas roles with "More Risky Passes" active will see players trying to thread penetrating passes with more urgency (of course, Retain Possession will still reduce risky passes for everyone and Pass Into Space will increase risky passes for everyone).

In terms of the thinking behind the TC, there are now two distinct types of playmaker role:

First, there are the traditional creators/#10s. These are the architects of chances responsible for carrying out attacking patterns and unlocking defences with a killer pass. These include the Trequartista, Enganche, Advanced Playmaker and Wide Playmaker (Attack). In this group, the more unpredictable trequartista and enganche roles will also tend to craft chances for themselves whereas the more purely creative advanced playmaker and wide playmaker roles will be more focused on setting up teammates.

Second, there are the controllers. These players orchestrate build-up play from deeper positions by dictating the tempo of play, circulating the ball across the midfield and shifting the opposition defence whilst teammates in more advanced positions focus on finding space from which they can spring attacking moves. These include the Deep Lying Playmaker, the Roaming Playmaker, the Regista and the Wide Playmaker (Support).

Thanks Cleon, I read it before. But I didn't think it is that different. Now, after give it a try, I think DLP(s) really looks like what I want !

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Cleon, what are the completed passes stats for you Wide Playmaker on the right wing? Is it normal for him to be getting below 70% completed passes?

I'm currently trying to implement a posession oriented tactic at Manchester United and i'm having problems with the role of Juan Mata. He's being very wasteful with the ball and i'm not sure if this is because of an incoherent setup relative to the role selection for the rest of the team or simply a result of playing advanced playmakers on attacking mentalities?

I am playing with an attacking team mentality and he's being deployed as a Wide Playmaker (S). I will upload pictures of the team's tactics and perhaps a PKM (or whatever the saved match file name is :D) when i get home if you don't min, but i would really love if you could answer my first question.

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Cleon, what are the completed passes stats for you Wide Playmaker on the right wing? Is it normal for him to be getting below 70% completed passes?

I'm currently trying to implement a posession oriented tactic at Manchester United and i'm having problems with the role of Juan Mata. He's being very wasteful with the ball and i'm not sure if this is because of an incoherent setup relative to the role selection for the rest of the team or simply a result of playing advanced playmakers on attacking mentalities?

I am playing with an attacking team mentality and he's being deployed as a Wide Playmaker (S). I will upload pictures of the team's tactics and perhaps a PKM (or whatever the saved match file name is :D) when i get home if you don't min, but i would really love if you could answer my first question.

Mata has the Tries Killer Balls Often PPM. Could be wasteful as a result of that.

I think mine has around 80-82% completed for the end of season.

It could be as RTH said about the PPM. I wrote about that PPM for a slightly different role but it all still applies to you and Mata, you might want to check them out;

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/443436-Meet-The-Enganche(s)

and

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/443668-A-Comparison-Enganche-vs-Enganche

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I didn't see this reply! I was off to hospital, the old ticker isn't doing too good, I blame FM ;)

I'll take you up on that and put up a PKM up once I can get back on the game with regularity, possibly a while off though. :)

OT but very important. Take it easy and recover soon :)

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Cleon, what are the completed passes stats for you Wide Playmaker on the right wing? Is it normal for him to be getting below 70% completed passes?

I'm currently trying to implement a posession oriented tactic at Manchester United and i'm having problems with the role of Juan Mata. He's being very wasteful with the ball and i'm not sure if this is because of an incoherent setup relative to the role selection for the rest of the team or simply a result of playing advanced playmakers on attacking mentalities?

I am playing with an attacking team mentality and he's being deployed as a Wide Playmaker (S). I will upload pictures of the team's tactics and perhaps a PKM (or whatever the saved match file name is :D) when i get home if you don't min, but i would really love if you could answer my first question.

Just came on here to post my own thoughts on possession, but will follow your post up as I'm also on a Man Utd save, 3rd season.

I have in some games deployed Mata in the same area you have, haven't found him wasteful, might be worth thinking about the rest of the team's deployment, tempo etc.

One thing I'm finding when playing "control" is that it is very high tempo by nature and to get it into a possession-tactic, avoiding hoof-ball (still a long-standing issue of the ME though not as bad as prior versions, but still I see hoofed passes / risky killer balls too often and there are other passing lanes), you've really got to be decisive in dropping passing length & tempo down to the minimum.

Just other observations.

- Roam from position is really important

- Keep possession is really important

- Play out of defence - can be counter-productive if you're being pressed, ends up resorting to hoof-ball counter-intuitively

- Try to play slightly wide or very wide, I think this helps

I've moved towards possession-based tactics as a result of too many bad away performances.

I have two main tactics I'm using.

1. a 4-1-4-1, that has got me over 60% possession against other top sides away from home, and good results as well. This is a defensive mentality tactic

2. Assymetic 4-2-3-1 variant, control mentality, has again got 60% + possession and is locking teams out - early days on this though as I'm still adjusting it from the gung-ho days.

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The most recent edition of FM is surprising for me. i never went beyond standart mentality for my possession tactic at FM15 but now, after I got the feel of FM 2016's ME (the new TI's interface is really helpful) I managed to create a possession tactic using Control Mentality and high tempo, not to mention I let works ball into box, plays out of defence, and look for overlap totally untouched. Those TIs were my favourite TIs for possession in the past.

your words hits me really hard. I just realize that "i know best" attitude is what makes me stuck at the same place, as a whole person, not just about this game. im grateful for that


this thread is also the reason why i tried to use mentality level beyond standart as the basic of my FM16's possession.

after some matches I noticed that some Tis, thought are useful n seemingly "must be picked" for possession tactic, have their own cons. The most bothering one for my concept is Works ball into box. it is reducing both long shot and crossing attempts, sounds great for possession but both of my Wide Defenders were struggling and oftenly lost the ball because when they reach areas near opposition's byline, they just stop then looking for a safe passing option. aside of resulting both WBs to be isolated out wide, this gives my opponent time to close them down or just intercept their pass. not to mention that most of the time my central players were in good positions to receive low crosses. Even if they are not isolated, the ball would only be circulated around outside the penalty box n it is rare for a great chance to appear if the box is full of opposition's players.

so my goals are:

- reducing unnecessary long shots

- Keep ambitious dribble as minimum as possible before reaching the final third

- both Wide Forwards to mainly focusing on exploiting central area up front while on support duty (looks for overlap is out of question)

- both Wide defenders to quickly attempt byline crossings at the right moment, not everytime (hit early crosses is out of question)

- doing all things mentioned above without reducing mentality setting below control.

even after tried using different mentality settings n team shapes n managed to get the feel of this newest version of ME, it took me more than an hour staring at the tactical screen before finally decided to abandon works ball into box, play out of defence, look for overlap, and slower tempo. instead, I tweaked many player roles and reconsider the team shapes because of how close roles and team shape related to each other. Final draft was 2 defend duty, 1 non-playmaker attack duty, 5 support duty, and 3 playmakers (2 on attack, 1 on support). this decision is also breaking my maximum 1 playmaker policy.

first try is an away match against Jablonec in Europa League. even thought i never heard about Jablonec IRL, their players arent too far inferior (to my surprise) compared to mine. First game against them i only got a 2-0 win

JablonecvS420b.png

Not so impressive but I watched the match in full match mode,

- 10 shots, 9 on target. Control mentality, higher tempo, without using Works ball into box, yet unnacessary long shots were not present at all

- 2 goals from open play, both are CCCs

- 649 passing attempts, quite good

- 90 minutes, 16 dribbles in total. 5 in the final third. 8 in their half. almost no unnecessary dribbles.

- 79% passing completion is not a good thing. but IMO it is due to my players quality. 10th at both average First touch n passing attributes compared to all BPL teams are not good enough for my concept, not to mention Mental attributes, team cohesion, PPMs, and tactical fluidity. it's my job to build a team suited for this demanding style of play.

- some players are designed to receive n send more passes than usual (midfield trio, DR, STC), n they did

- Almost all of key passes came from these designated players. 2 key passes came from DL, and the DMC gave no key pass which is fine. DR gave the most with 9 key passes. need world class Central midfielder with the right ppm...

- how much my DR is getting involved at the final third, he is also man of the match

dr2182b.png

with the majority of players from both sides congested in the central area, Cedric took the advantage of playing out wide to the fullest. He combined with 3 playmakers created passing routes between them at the final third. When his teamates finally reached opposition box, he became more aggresive n sent through balls or quick flat crosses instead of keeping possession. thought none of them became assist.

- The Defence need more Improvement. This part remains a flaw to this tactic, n im still working on it. No matter what, letting a lower team to shot more often must be avoided. I also made mistake when adjust the OI


It's still too early for my team to play with this style. Currently im still relying on other tactic (A counter attacking style) than this one. nevertheless, this edition's ME is pretty much smoother than its predecessors. Now i dont mind watching almost every game in full match mode

I'm interested to see how your set up actually looks, if you don't mind.

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@wpmk great post, I use a very similar setup with HSV and currently sitting with 54.88% but I think this is down to player ability so I'm happy.

Looking forward to your update so I can possible 'borrow' some ideas :)

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Just finished my 2nd season. Roughly 50:50 played on 16.1.1 and 16.2.0

League

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Europe

5rgGWzq.jpg

Can't honestly say 16.2.0 has had any noticeable change on my tactic. I've specifically been trying to pick out any changes to how my DMC plays after the update, but nothing glaringly obvious.

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Excellent post wpmk :thup:

I totally agree with this, I tried emulating his formation and tactics somewhat, even though I have added some of my own as well. It was definitely worth a try, as I am having the best season in FM16 so far. I finished 2nd with Napoli in my first season, that is definitely improvement compared to my other saves. Before I've had troubles with my left- and right defenders, but I think I've been too defensive. Now my wingbacks are being more attacking minded and it is paying off. After nearly 200 hours of playing time, I still haven't finished a second season in a club. Just tells me that I haven't succeeded at any club YET.

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@ ben carter,

Man I know you are playing as Bayern M who have excellent players, but these are some impressive possession and passing percentage stats. Top work! I'll be looking forward to you posting some more details about what set up you are actually using to achieve those numbers and why does it work they it does.

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Thanks Cleon :).

2qwcwg7.png

You achieved this with the 4-5-1(4-2-3-1) you previously posted in this threat? I tried to create something similar but felt like my lone forward was too far ahead of everyone and usually dribbled until he lost the ball because he didn't really have any passing options. Or did you use PI's to alternate the roles so they support the lone striker more? Right now i feel like my tactic is defensively pretty sound but fails to create decent chances so thats why I was wondering:p Could be the quality of my players cause I like to start with lower league teams.

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With the match engine as it is, it's possible to create a tactic with loads of possession but impossible to create a good position game. The false 9 role still plays like a conventional striker so I still have to resort to using my ST in the AMC position, which then makes pressing worse because I want him to play in a normal ST role when we don't have the ball. And for whatever reason, they seem to have ruined the normal CM-Support role (in my opinion). Every time play approaches the final third, the midfield presence is non-existent. On FM 15, they used to hang outside the box more and were always ready to pick up second balls if play broke down.

There's way to many switch plays at the moment to wide players - It's really annoying because it's a good thing that they've finally implemented long diagonals to wingers but it's overkill and it just results in loads more offsides & much more interceptions for opponents to counter constantly. My players barely string 5 short passes together before attempting to hit wingers - I want this to happen but I want us to create the space for wingers through our passing rather than just hitting it to them anyway. They haven't seemed to grasp the concept of using passing to open free-men, and instead just seem to instantly find them when they're not available.

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With the match engine as it is, it's possible to create a tactic with loads of possession but impossible to create a good position game. The false 9 role still plays like a conventional striker so I still have to resort to using my ST in the AMC position, which then makes pressing worse because I want him to play in a normal ST role when we don't have the ball. And for whatever reason, they seem to have ruined the normal CM-Support role (in my opinion). Every time play approaches the final third, the midfield presence is non-existent. On FM 15, they used to hang outside the box more and were always ready to pick up second balls if play broke down.

There's way to many switch plays at the moment to wide players - It's really annoying because it's a good thing that they've finally implemented long diagonals to wingers but it's overkill and it just results in loads more offsides & much more interceptions for opponents to counter constantly. My players barely string 5 short passes together before attempting to hit wingers - I want this to happen but I want us to create the space for wingers through our passing rather than just hitting it to them anyway. They haven't seemed to grasp the concept of using passing to open free-men, and instead just seem to instantly find them when they're not available.

Just because you can't do something doesn't make something impossible. There are plenty of people who can achieve the above and don't experience any of the issues you've mentioned in the above post, which means it is possible. If it's not happening for you then it's clearly something you are doing wrong. The CM support hasn't been changed in FM16 and still works the same way as on FM15. They still make late runs and pick up second balls. If it's not happening for you then you need to find out why it isn't.

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Just because you can't do something doesn't make something impossible. There are plenty of people who can achieve the above and don't experience any of the issues you've mentioned in the above post, which means it is possible. If it's not happening for you then it's clearly something you are doing wrong. The CM support hasn't been changed in FM16 and still works the same way as on FM15. They still make late runs and pick up second balls. If it's not happening for you then you need to find out why it isn't.

Well as an example, Whether I'm doing something wrong or not shouldn't make the false 9 role play like a conventional striker - and he does for everyone else as well unless my game is broken. I very rarely see him positioned between the lines apart from isolated occasions when he'll drop off the CB's to receive a pass. Movement which is no different from the DLF.

The CM-Support role just seems different to me, they play too close to others in & around the penalty box and make too many runs forward. I don't have any setting which should make them do this. I've tried them on a defend duty but that ruins our build-up play from the back because they drop almost as deep as the defensive line rather than positioning themselves to receive forward passes into midfield.

I've tried almost every setting possible to try stopping these constant switchplays to wide players as well. The only thing which makes it less frequent is using a bunch of playmaker roles but I don't like how they play positionally.

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Well as an example, Whether I'm doing something wrong or not shouldn't make the false 9 role play like a conventional striker - and he does for everyone else as well unless my game is broken. I very rarely see him positioned between the lines apart from isolated occasions when he'll drop off the CB's to receive a pass. Movement which is no different from the DLF.

The CM-Support role just seems different to me, they play too close to others in & around the penalty box and make too many runs forward. I don't have any setting which should make them do this.

I've tried almost every setting possible to try stopping these constant switchplays to wide players as well. The only thing which makes it less frequent is using a bunch of playmaker roles but I don't like how they play positionally.

Post your tactic and the full instructions you use.

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I've noticed the CM/S (on my completely unrelated tactic that isn't about possession, but uses Control mentality too) doing a lot of forward runs as well. He's almost like a box-to-box.

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You achieved this with the 4-5-1(4-2-3-1) you previously posted in this threat? I tried to create something similar but felt like my lone forward was too far ahead of everyone and usually dribbled until he lost the ball because he didn't really have any passing options. Or did you use PI's to alternate the roles so they support the lone striker more? Right now i feel like my tactic is defensively pretty sound but fails to create decent chances so thats why I was wondering:p Could be the quality of my players cause I like to start with lower league teams.

Yes with that 4231 I posted earlier.

Very occasionally (and I'm talking in less than 5% of matches) I may change the BBM to a CM(D) whilst making the fullback on that side more attacking, but that is all. I also find that sometimes it's good to either start with or substitute in a different type of player for the same role. A good example of this is Paco Alcacer and Alvaro Negredo as striker. They'll play the same role differently, which can make quite a difference in a match.

I don't know how this would be affected by the lower quality in lower leagues, as I don't tend to play LLM. I'm sure you'll be able to find a balance for your system :).

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Post your tactic and the full instructions you use.

I don't use anything which should make my CM's bomb into the penalty box and my F9 to play like a target man.

I use all the obvious possession-first TI's/PI's. I used a basic 4-3-3, Very Fluid & Control. Wide as possible rather than narrow to open up the space for the middle. No specialist roles, just standard roles all on a support duty apart from the CB's and DM who are on Defend.

Here's a screenshot -

Bad%20F9%20Positioning_zpsfmhj0ah4.png

Pardo's position isn't dreadful but after making his cross to the badly positioned F9, he'll run forward like I've been saying. There's just no sense of calm or control in the play.

And when you use playmaker roles, this is an example of the problem which happens -

Rubbish%20playmaker%20positioning_zpsapm5phrq.png

I just have no idea what's going on there, but it shows the dreadful positioning I'm talking about. To add to it, one of my playmakers hoofs it forward to my F9 making runs inbehind the defence, which are always offside anyway.

I'm now resorting to obscure shapes for better possession structures - at the expense of our shape without the ball though. It still doesn't stop the constant long diagonals to wingers though & constant stoppages in play because they're always offside.

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I don't use anything which should make my CM's bomb into the penalty box and my F9 to play like a target man.

I use all the obvious possession-first TI's/PI's. I used a basic 4-3-3, Very Fluid & Control. Wide as possible rather than narrow to open up the space for the middle. No specialist roles, just standard roles all on a support duty apart from the CB's and DM who are on Defend.

Here's a screenshot -

Bad%20F9%20Positioning_zpsfmhj0ah4.png

Pardo's position isn't dreadful but after making his cross to the badly positioned F9, he'll run forward like I've been saying. There's just no sense of calm or control in the play.

And when you use playmaker roles, this is an example of the problem which happens -

Rubbish%20playmaker%20positioning_zpsapm5phrq.png

I just have no idea what's going on there, but it shows the dreadful positioning I'm talking about. To add to it, one of my playmakers hoofs it forward to my F9 making runs inbehind the defence, which are always offside anyway.

I'm now resorting to obscure shapes for better possession structures - at the expense of our shape without the ball though. It still doesn't stop the constant long diagonals to wingers though & constant stoppages in play because they're always offside.

Hard to say anything without whole setup but I see something there. For first picture, I generally use a F9 role without using any real runner like you. I don't know it is true or not. But I thought F9 tent to act real nine because he thinks there is nobody to leading box. So especially with creativity, he can take control himself. It is just an idea I did not try yet. But I guess it can be happen because of that. You will be welcome to correct me. For second picture, you use a playmaker in very fluid shape. He has full creativity. And I remember Saul has triess killer balls often PPM. He saw the run and play with it. It does not sure he is in offside or not.

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EDIT= Also for first picture, you use a control mentality. The mentality try utilise when opportunity arrive. Your team was camping at the opposition's half. But Pardo has no simple pass option in front of him. When he look at the around, he saw 1v1 situation in the penalty area. And if F9 can win the ball and play with your other CM(s), CM(s) can even score. So the player who has the ball already has creativity, he may think there is nothing wrong to try it.

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I'm interested to see how your set up actually looks, if you don't mind.

this was on my first fm16 save. now it's gone after I reinstalled my windows due to awfully corrupted registry n forgot to back up. Im now starting a new save, with southampton n Leicester city

If I remember correctly, It should be

- Structured

- Control

- short pass

- Slightly higher D-Line

- Low crosses

- higher tempo

- Prevent short GK distribution

- balanced width

- play out of defense

- Dribble Less

- Manual Close Down setting for each player

=========SK-S

WB-A==BPD_D==C-D==FB-S

=========A-D

=====RPM-S==AP-A

IF-S=============IF-S

=========T-A

Match Training: Teamwork

I dont use this anymore since in my new Southampton save I disabled the 1st transfer windows so without any decent replacement to cover bernant's long injury from the beginning I decided to use 3 DCs system, n it is an entirely different tactic

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