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The Art of Counter Attacking


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1 hour ago, KI Heynckes said:

Where am I wrong? That this Thread is about counter attacking and not about how to take a bad tactic and make some in game adjustments and suddenly it's unbeatable? I just wanted to create a solid overachieving tactic based on these principles and it's basically impossible it seems. So rather help someone than throwing me under the bus, just because it just doesn't work for me.

You asked someone to make some guesses as to what you are doing differently to Cleon.  Both myself and now Cleon have told you.  It's not impossible to follow the principles here, but you are making it more difficult for yourself if all you do is copy a tactic which is not suited to your team and then go on holiday.

Nobody is throwing you under a bus, you just haven't fully understood what this thread is about.  If you'd like specific help with your system, you'll need to create a new thread, post the full detail of your tactic (preferably screenshots), what specific issues you are having with it and someone may be able to offer you advice.

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vor 9 Minuten schrieb herne79:

You asked someone to make some guesses as to what you are doing differently to Cleon.  Both myself and now Cleon have told you.  It's not impossible to follow the principles here, but you are making it more difficult for yourself if all you do is copy a tactic which is not suited to your team and then go on holiday.

Nobody is throwing you under a bus, you just haven't fully understood what this thread is about.  If you'd like specific help with your system, you'll need to create a new thread, post the full detail of your tactic (preferably screenshots), what specific issues you are having with it and someone may be able to offer you advice.

I didn't copy it, I played Sessegnon as a WB on DL for example and some other tweaks to fit the team. If you score 17 goals in 38 matches something can't be right, Cleon handily beats Premier League teams with his League 1 side with a SIMILAR tactic. Also people on this forum seem to contradict themselves, when I posted my first tactic someone said "you have a AP, but for which player does he create, the OML and ST who are on support duties?" indicating this can't work without them, now Cleon says Attack duties are unnecessary.

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1 hour ago, KI Heynckes said:

Where am I wrong? That this Thread is about counter attacking and not about how to take a bad tactic and make some in game adjustments and suddenly it's unbeatable? I just wanted to create a solid overachieving tactic based on these principles and it's basically impossible it seems. So rather help someone than throwing me under the bus, just because it just doesn't work for me.

There are numerous ways to play counter attacking (or any other style of) football successfully, and this Cleon's is just one of them. Different teams (players) will behave differently (even) when they use an entirely identical tactic. And even one single team will need certain tweaks to the tactic from match to match, depending on the type of the opposition. For example, in FM18 I created a nice counterattack-based tactic that worked perfectly for me in my Spurs save against some opponents, but against others it was quite ineffective, simply because those teams' tactics were perfectly set to defend successfully against my style, so watching the match I realized where the problem lied and made adjustments to the tactic in an attempt to overcome it. After all, maybe your team simply isn't suitable for counter-attacking football of any kind with the players you currently have at your disposal (I cannot know if that's the case, just taking that as a possibility).

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  • 2 months later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Ok I got bored of the 4231 in its traditional format as I wanted to play a more counter attacking-esque style of play. Relies on staying deepish, keeping space between their defenders and GK, very fast flairy good passers on the wings, a very pacey striker who can also hold up the ball and a work horse beast in central midfield.

The goals come from anywhere from the front 4. You'll think the left winger will score and then all of a sudden the right winger scores, or you think the striker will score but the CM-A buries it. It's just beastly beautiful fast flowing football, I love it. 

I have to credit Cleon and Rashidi for helping inspire how to express it in FM terms.

I was thinking of posting this tactic for a while but I just switched off 'be more expressive' and it resulted in a 7-0 home win vs Man Utd, with some really gorgeous football, and a perfect representation of what I was looking to create.

I don't seem to be able to upload the highlights for some reason, I'll keep trying.

What I love most about the tactic is that it doesn't require large amounts of possession. Look at some of the results from below, I often have less than 45% possession but my attacks just carve them apart. I absolutely love the screenshot at the bottom, 45% possession but 39 shots with 22 on target! Lol! That was a game fielding a lot of back-up players and an earlier version of the tactic, hence high long shots.

Relies mostly on pace with the 4 attacking-most players, but plenty of decisions + teamwork needed. I'd like to start experimenting with 'looks for pass rather than shot' and see if I can turn that into a positive PPM for me rather than a negative one.

PPMs are vital, obviously. Rashidi suggests using wingers that have the PPM cuts inside trait and I think that will be the way I go. I often find myself wanting the IF-S's to get forward when counters start but they stay frustratingly static sometimes, maybe the W-S role will give them the extra attacking motivation. Just need to get the right players sorted out, always looking to upgrade.

1683169245_ScreenShot2019-04-13at00_28_22.thumb.png.f5c8cad2bb59fc2af3c29562f5bf5f5f.png

1429099895_ScreenShot2019-04-13at00_05_46.thumb.png.0a0b560963ecf692b18df3f3b11c751d.png1546589444_ScreenShot2019-04-13at00_32_55.thumb.png.35608adf898460814ce56c58e974d069.png218576498_ScreenShot2019-04-13at00_32_31.thumb.png.f247d5cb45432fc46724224cd004bca0.png

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1355822143_ScreenShot2019-04-13at00_31_50.thumb.png.aacbdcd37308ad03ee14d676531c452c.png1989890522_ScreenShot2019-04-13at00_33_18.thumb.png.722b7fa99cea4c944e7da7821467beeb.png

1705992751_ScreenShot2019-04-13at00_37_49.thumb.png.1e3b6c313bd5c1e26208611457d97332.png1955473955_ScreenShot2019-04-13at00_37_13.thumb.png.e15d0b95994044c3463042ad78e661d6.png319791232_ScreenShot2019-04-13at00_36_28.thumb.png.96a30c42aec6bb77df528a463227110b.png1785214736_ScreenShot2019-04-13at00_36_09.thumb.png.92ee0c753cc189311db7e6a7bc0664a2.png

Edited by jackane24
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  • 2 years later...
On 26/03/2019 at 18:02, Boydo said:

Just want to thank Cleon, I was really struggling away from home as Wolves before remembering this thread. I was winning comfortably at home with a custom gegenpressing tactic, but was the league's whipping boy away.

After creating this tactic:

image.thumb.png.49c6b6c8b9f50e9927dc8c4b98083c09.png

 

I was able to get an unexpected away win at Spurs (two counters and a free-kick).

1.thumb.PNG.20329f2c437ff66cf82bd31652e6eae1.PNG

 

Edit: Just followed the Spurs match up with the below away at Liverpool!

image.thumb.png.1e0bb4ca4d5cc2b10ca458be500bf4ad.png

 

Wouldn’t mind giving this a try in FM22 to see if it works.

Any player instructions/opposition instructions?

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8 hours ago, Duke313 said:

Wouldn’t mind giving this a try in FM22 to see if it works.

Any player instructions/opposition instructions?

No opposition instructions or PIs - let me know how you get on!

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  • 6 months later...
8 hours ago, Tilling said:

Do you happen to have this for your Defensive football work? Really interested in making the 3-4-3 work which I believe is what you used - would like to try and make a Conte style system with similar principles

I do.

Part One - https://docs.google.com/document/d/10-plyakd-vO_0IyjV7X3LDE9XoIbecNQos-Ac6KhwdA/edit?usp=sharing

Part Two - https://docs.google.com/document/d/17hKuLNndtWHqNcmP466haPmSIQGzG--lhH0XPpffQDA/edit?usp=sharing

Part Three - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qr6uE05H9_wVkg2y-Glo7DKL_iOXtTuEmIWSCwT28FI/edit?usp=sharing

Part Four - https://docs.google.com/document/d/1z6JuKdVpYSBUPdnGU4mnTCDWHLCAz-r7UdjDC9FSoHE/edit?usp=sharing

 

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