Official Football Manager 2015 Feedback Thread 15.3.0

[santy001]

When it comes to implementing physical attributes between two players in game engines its an area that I haven't really seen any game get to grips with yet. Whether that be larger RPG types or in more similar terms EA's sports games. Assassins creed for example has no distinction between the various people in its game worlds when you're moving through crowds etc. It's the same in most other games and in fact I'd say that FIFA doesn't actually have physicality between players, it simulates it but its something I think is just beyond developers at the moment.

[sirgiorgio]

Actually you don't. If you check the performance widget, it'll give you details on whether its advisable to keep the player on, and clicking on his profile will give you details of what the injury potentially is.

True, but there are pop-ups for completely nonsensical "advices", why not for injuries? They only "advices" I see are "he's able to shake it off" or "we should substitute him asap". I'd expect something like "The guy is limping, he cannot even run for 10 meters..." Or "the guy is bleeding, just wait until the end of the first half and we'll stitch him up" or "The guy is in a lot of pain, his nose is broken but he said he'll hang in there". Something like that.

Also, "advisable" and "potentially" can be confused with "random"...

[thomit]

True, but there are pop-ups for completely nonsensical "advices", why not for injuries? They only "advices" I see are "he's able to shake it off" or "we should substitute him asap". I'd expect something like "The guy is limping, he cannot even run for 10 meters..." Or "the guy is bleeding, just wait until the end of the first half and we'll stitch him up" or "The guy is in a lot of pain, his nose is broken but he said he'll hang in there". Something like that.

Also, "advisable" and "potentially" can be confused with "random"...

There's already too many pop-ups. And all of them are so easy to miss. It's better to adapt to having important widgets up on the match screen at all times. I can't play without widgets like my own teams performance, stats up all the time.

[v InterfectoR v]

Why shouldn't he attempt to get more first team football? He's just asked the question & has accepted the situation when you tell him nothing is going to change.

Probably because most of the time the player freaks out and goes silent were you can't even speak to them ever again until they come out of their silent bubble.

[Dagenham_Dave]

Realistically you should be told that your player has a pulled hamstring (an injury which is very easy to notice IRL) and has to go off, you shouldn't have to wait till after the match.

A pulled hamstring will almost always be a red injury anyway, so you'll have no choice except to sub him. The 'orange' injuries are ones that are harder to distinguish the severity until afterwards, which is part of the risk of keeping them playing. Such as 'potential' head, shin, knee injuries, etc. These could develop into something more serious or the player will be able to run them off. If a player's condition jumps straight back up to around what the rest of the team are on, that's usually a pretty good indicator.

That said, what I would like to see implemented is if you get orange injuries in the first half, your Physio should give you a rough report at half time of the severity of it if you've kept the player on.

[thomit]

A pulled hamstring will almost always be a red injury anyway, so you'll have no choice except to sub him. The 'orange' injuries are ones that are harder to distinguish the severity until afterwards, which is part of the risk of keeping them playing. Such as 'potential' head, shin, knee injuries, etc. These could develop into something more serious or the player will be able to run them off. If a player's condition jumps straight back up to around what the rest of the team are on, that's usually a pretty good indicator.

That said, what I would like to see implemented is if you get orange injuries in the first half, your Physio should give you a rough report at half time of the severity of it if you've kept the player on.

Now, what I don't like is the coupling between condition and injuries. I mean ... condition is a measure of how tired a player is, right? So why does a player suddenly get more tired if he gets a bloody nose? Heck, even a severed head wouldn't influence his tiredness. He'd be dead, but not tired. You see what I mean?

[forameuss]

For me condition is a general numerical value for what degree a player will play to his capabilities, nothing to do with tiredness. Which meshes much better.

[cleaner475]

Now, what I don't like is the coupling between condition and injuries. I mean ... condition is a measure of how tired a player is, right? So why does a player suddenly get more tired if he gets a bloody nose? Heck, even a severed head wouldn't influence his tiredness. He'd be dead, but not tired. You see what I mean?

Nope, the hidden Jadedness stat is what manages tiredness, not condition.

[sirgiorgio]

I don't really understand your point here.... :confused:

Treated differently how?

An example. Champions League 2003 Final Extra Time, second half. AC Milan defender Roque Junior picks up a knock, he can barely walk, but AC Milan cannot make any more subs. Roque Junior knows he cannot let his teammates down and stays on the pitch until the match is over. What if it wasn't the CL Final but Italy Cup first round?

Are you saying midfielders or wingers get tired faster? You seem to say both get tired fastest in that paragraph.

One area of your side getting tired quicker than the other is normally down to tactics or the natural fitness of the players in question.

I'm saying that fullbacks, wingbacks, "wingers", attacking midfielders and strikers get tired quicker than central midfielders and central defenders. Doesn't really have much to do with tactics, every "tactic" is based on movement from wide players and strikers, while central midfielders and central defenders in general hold position and try to move the ball instead. Another example: I played 5-1-2-2 WB DM with Juventus, and I rarely had to rotate/substitute my wingbacks and strikers, the way Conte usually did. Instead, I couldn't play two matches in a row with the same Pirlo-Vidal-Pogba partnership. Whenever they are subbed/rested IRL is like the end of the world, and Pirlo is 35 years old! In FM is "normal rotation".

Are you saying you should be able too? Because that doesn't really happen IRL.

It happens all the time... Franco Baresi in 1994 suffered from a serious knee injury, the kind of injury it took 2-3 months to recover from, especially in 1994. And yet, less than 1 month later, he was there, playing the World Cup Final. In FM you can play the player before he's fully recovered, you can even give him injections, but you can do nothing as long as the icon is "red". I'm saying that you should be able to speed up his recovery, if it's strictly necessary and with the player's permission. Success rate is not 100% as it depends on the player and the injury, but it depends on the match, too: an important player (and his manager) won't miss a game just because "the doctor said so".

[daylight]

It happens all the time... Franco Baresi in 1994 suffered from a serious knee injury, the kind of injury it took 2-3 months to recover from, especially in 1994. And yet, less than 1 month later, he was there, playing the World Cup Final.

You may be right in your argument or you may be wrong, it always just strikes me as funny when people post 'happens all the time' and then they go back over 20 years for an example.

[EuskalHerria]

Is there a reason why my .fmf and .tac files I used in 15.2 are no longer showing up for 15.3? The tac is not longer showing up in the archived list and the fmf is not longer showing up when i go to import it. Any way to fix this?

[nyte`]

Have regens' mental stats been addressed, especially bravery and aggression? I'm currently in 2036 and over the years, all the top players often single digit stats for the 2 I mentioned.

Then you have regens with stats that seem illogical, for example http://i.imgur.com/PROzlr7.png

technique: 9

dribbling: 18

first touch: 14

[sirgiorgio]

You may be right in your argument or you may be wrong, it always just strikes me as funny when people post 'happens all the time' and then they go back over 20 years for an example.

Because it's a famous example. I could go back to the 1970 World Cup Semi-Final, Italy v West Germany 4-3 and Beckenbauer playing with a broken shoulder. Or Maradona constantly suffering from back pain... Or the 2014 World Cup, Vidal, Barzagli and Suarez being called up and played despite having all kinds of physical problems. Barzagli hadn't played for 2 months before the World Cup and hasn't played since... But you know... Barzagli is neither Baresi nor Beckenbauer... Suarez is not Maradona... and so on.

[daylight]

I tell you what happens more in real life is players going out injured with 1 thing and while they are recovering from that injury they pick up another injury that keeps them out longer.

Surely if SI adds 1 then they have to add the other?

I could just imagine this board when players had their star striker go out for 2 weeks with a stubbed toe only to be out for 4 months with other little injuries he kept picking up whilst he was injured.

[arsenalthebest]

Why shouldn't he attempt to get more first team football? He's just asked the question & has accepted the situation when you tell him nothing is going to change.

Simple he squad Status is rotation not first team or key player he getting the number of games 'promised' in his contract

[Abaka]

Abaka.. you reported you are having issues in implementing your tactic.. is the notion you should go to the tactics section of the forum so surprising? Did anyone say anything about your negative comments? (which by the way.. weren't even that negative) ... what a strange way to react to people trying to help you with your issue..

Would appreciate a bit of common sense in the thread please...

The whole notion negative comments aren't appreciated or even allowed on here is getting rather old.

Apologies, I felt a bit dismissed because of the Tactics being the issue spiel. My post wasn't to do with tactics just to do with my team crushing the opposition with them offering little to no threat which is killing the game a little. I've also tried switching to contain with no shouts and I'm still overpowering them. Will provide some games later if this helps. Also my other note of the bizzare scorelines such as N/Castle in poor form with injuries beating a full team Chelsea in good form 5-0!! Of course a resilient side could beat a giant team 1 or 2-0 but a 5-0 drubbing is a bit of a step to far!!

The overall problem for me though is me crushing AI teams and rotation players complaining of not playing enough football and then throwing a strop when I try to explain that they need to keep their head down and work hard for the chance, this is a player who has played about 80% of my games so not like he's in and out every week!!. Herrera has completely turned against me now and causing issues with the squad. I can understand his need to ask for more football but if he's a rotation player and I tell him he can't get anymore football than I'm giving him he shouldn't be so quick to hate me, yes he can be miserable but not to the point where he alienates the entire team!

Again apologies if I was harsh with my rebuttal! First time ever I've had a complaint about this game post January patch which ruins the immersion for me

[HUNT3R]

Simple he quad Status is rotation not first team or key player he getting the number of games 'promised' in his contract

What's his ability compared to the rest of the squad? He may well be pushing for more.

[Guest]

Simple he quad Status is rotation not first team or key player he getting the number of games 'promised' in his contract

His contract does not include a clause stating how many games he will play, all he is doing is trying to increase his importance & is seeking to push you in that direction, he might also think that he has progressed to a level that he deserves a chance at more regular first team football.

If you want to take on a more important role at work do you do nothing or ask your boss for a more important role?

[akkm]

Just reading above about the shot count and that user tactics can be an issue and your inputs product the outputs and I agree with this as it can absolutely be the case. However using Barca as an example it looks like something is overriding it showing user inputs are not necessarily the primary reason for high shot counts. Have posted about it already with them having average over 30 shots.

Just there away to Cordoba as Barca had 33 shots with team instructions

Retain possession

Shorter passing

Pass into space

Work ball into box

Play out of defence

Run at defence

Exploit the middle

Play narrower

Roam from position

Close down more

Use offside trap

Much lower tempo

GK – defend

FB – auto

CD – defend

CD – defend

FB – auto

DLP – defend

AP/RP – support

AP – support

AP – support

SS – attack

F9 – support

All attacking players have shoot less often ticked and F9 has hold up ball as well

First half used control/structured and had 11 shots. Second half changed to contain/fluid and shot count went up to 22 for that half

Didn’t look at half time but average positions of barca for overall game were (looking at analysis screen and square grids within) 3 lines of squares away from half way line…so 45 mins using contain mentality team on average played near the half way line !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yes fluid might mean have some influence against contain but still that should not be happening and using a contain mentality. I think Cordoba perhaps left more a gap between their defence and midfield so conceivably left themselves more vulnerable but still barca should not be attempting so many shots with those tactical instructions.

It is conceivable that maybe Tis such as

Pass into space

Work ball into box

Play out of defence

Run at defence

Close down more

are not necessarily in sync with contain mentality (use offside trap possibly same logic) per se so next game at home to Bayern took those instructions away (except offside trap) and still had 32 shots on goal. This is absurd. Bayern weren’t overly deep either…4 squares from half way line. To be fair the overall play is decent and more patient using contain and is actually better to watch in terms of probing etc but it is evidence of a ‘too direct’ approach over instructions nonetheless. I’ve also noticed overall passing numbers seem to be lower than the last iteration perhaps contributing to more direct/more shots rather than more recycling of possession.

I’m not saying I’m not seeing instances of probing but its far from the extent it should be.

Also using same tactics with different teams (as Torquay and Barca) yields significantly different shot counts..yes of course it will eg Barca are more dominant thus leading to more potential shots etc etc but not to the extent which is happening in current engine. The disparity in dominance should be represented (with team/player instructions) in leading to more instances of intricate passing and off the ball movement rather than banging shots off (in itself it does lead to more instances but not to the level or the way it should). The best teams in the world thoughout history in general use their dominance to move the ball around more rather than increase their shot count which just plays a more percentage game...they use their superior technique/vision/guile to create openings to get the ball/players into good positions not get players into positions to get pot shots away.

[andu1]

Just started a new game in Argentina to test the amount of goals.

Look at this team, if you look at their results do you feel this is real football? this did not show up at all in testing? really at all? 10 minutes is all it took me to start a game and leave it alone to process....

What more context do you want me to add? It's an AI team that plays 3-4-1-2 like many teams in Argentina.Is the 3 man system bugged?

[cleaner475]

Just started a new game in Argentina to test the amount of goals.

Look at this team, if you look at their results do you feel this is real football? this did not show up at all in testing? really at all? 10 minutes is all it took me to start a game and leave it alone to process....

What more context do you want me to add? It's an AI team that plays 3-4-1-2 like many teams in Argentina.Is the 3 man system bugged?

I'm not getting anywhere near those scores in Argentina;

[andu1]

Are those teams using a 3 man formation? I think the issue is with 3 man at the back.

[HUNT3R]

Also, are you both running the leagues on full detail?

[andu1]

Also, are you both running the leagues on full detail?

Mine is on full detail. I am running it to test the amount of goals. They are currently at 75-69 after 26 games which also included an incredible 5-7 loss against Independiente.( this was a 3-4-1-2 vs 3-4-1-2 battle)

In fact every teams that plays 3-4-1-2 has a much higher amount of goals scored/conceded than the rest of the teams.

[cleaner475]

Also, are you both running the leagues on full detail?

Indeed I am.

[cleaner475]

Are those teams using a 3 man formation? I think the issue is with 3 man at the back.

Don't think so, it's not as common as you suggested

Atheltico Nacional are a Colombian side that do though, here's there results.

[andu1]

Ok, maybe we need a third opinion. If someone could start a new game in Argentina, leave it in full details around 3 years and post the results, we may have a better picture.

[Marius_R]

Some transfer fees are ridiculously low after the update. I`m in the 2018-2019 season, and Yarmolenko went from Inter to Man Utd for 3.9M, Hojbjerg went from Man Utd to Juventus for 18.9M, Chiriches from Inter to Benfica for 2.9M, Jesus Vallejo from PSG to Atletico for 4M and a 33-year old Vermaelen went from Barcelona to Porto for just 135k. Granted most of these players weren`t regular starters for their teams, but still, they seem low to me.

[cerud]

His contract does not include a clause stating how many games he will play, all he is doing is trying to increase his importance & is seeking to push you in that direction, he might also think that he has progressed to a level that he deserves a chance at more regular first team football.

If you want to take on a more important role at work do you do nothing or ask your boss for a more important role?

I agree that players have the right to push for more playing time if they feel that they are worth it. However, I personally take issue with 15 year old youth prospects demanding first team football. I especially take issue with players who disagree and then refuse to talk for months afterwards. In your example of asking for a more important role at work, if your boss says no, do you refuse to deal with them afterwards? If I did that, I would expect to be fired.

I like the idea behind player interactions. What I dislike is the extreme mood swings. If a player disagrees with me, I expect for them to still come to me when I want to speak to them. A player refusing to talk to me has always seemed odd. I'm not giving the player a choice; get into my office or be transferred. The unfortunate aspect of the player interactions module is that I get much better results if I imagine my players are 3 years old and then deal with them accordingly. Hopefully, one day, players in the game graduate to their "big boy" pants and stop leaving stains on my floor.

[duccio]

My new stadium was supposed to be finished by 2029, but after several delays it was ready about a year later than promised. Stadium info says it was built in 2029, but because of the aforementioned delays it indeed wasnt ready until 2030. The stadium info is clearly wrong - is it a bug?

[Moose-Stuff-For-Money]

I play in Argentina and although the results have toned down slightly, Banfield has a serious issue with goals for and against and has done through every patch. It's probably just a little anomaly that slips through coding or is too hard to find its root cause.

I have the odd massive score 9-0 being my record and I see lots of 4-4 draws in the APD.

[Cougar2010]

Ok, maybe we need a third opinion. If someone could start a new game in Argentina, leave it in full details around 3 years and post the results, we may have a better picture.

Not a new game but these are all on the new patch, same four teams as cleaner posted. Want to add that Boca are top of the league with most goals (27 in 11 games), most against is 23 conceded atm.

[Cougar2010]

Thats not to say I don't agree with you andu but tracking down what causes it doesn't seem to be straight forward

EDIT

I've just flicked through a few others leagues (Brazil, France, Italy, Spain, Germany & England). Most goals I saw scored was 77 by Man Utd & 73 by Marseille and they had both played around 33/34 matches.

EDIT2

Even the smaller leagues with 1-3 dominant teams aren't much different (Denmark, Scotland, Portugal etc). Sporting one of the more extreme I've seen with 77 goals in 30 games but they are top of the league with 24 wins.

Wales is possibly the closest example in my save atm. TNS are the only pro club having won 5 titles in a row, this season 31 games, 28 wins & 3 draws scoring 87 goals & conceding 11 but behind them is fairly even (Most goals conceded 46).

[andu1]

@Cougar 2010

Any teams playing 3-4-1-2 in the league? If any Can you check their results assuming the league is in full detail.

[Cougar2010]

@Cougar 2010

Any teams playing 3-4-1-2 in the league? If any Can you check their results assuming the league is in full detail.

Any easy way to check formations?

[Guest]

I agree that players have the right to push for more playing time if they feel that they are worth it. However, I personally take issue with 15 year old youth prospects demanding first team football. I especially take issue with players who disagree and then refuse to talk for months afterwards. In your example of asking for a more important role at work, if your boss says no, do you refuse to deal with them afterwards? If I did that, I would expect to be fired.

I like the idea behind player interactions. What I dislike is the extreme mood swings. If a player disagrees with me, I expect for them to still come to me when I want to speak to them. A player refusing to talk to me has always seemed odd. I'm not giving the player a choice; get into my office or be transferred. The unfortunate aspect of the player interactions module is that I get much better results if I imagine my players are 3 years old and then deal with them accordingly. Hopefully, one day, players in the game graduate to their "big boy" pants and stop leaving stains on my floor.

Please raise any instances of 15 year old players asking to talk about getting first team football in the bugs forum, this should not be happening & I've not seen any examples of it on my play save.

[HUNT3R]

FWIW, when I said Full Detail, I didn't mean just playable. I mean you have to be managing in that league or manually set it to be full detail.

[RTHerringbone]

I'll scour through the history of results in my save to find the top ten outlying results in each season.

Season 1

Matches with >= 6 goals:

Hull 5 Palace 3

Palace 2 Spurs 4

Villa 4 West Brom 2

West Ham 2 Hull 4

Leicester 3 Burnley 3

Chelsea 8 West Ham 0

Leicester 2 Liverpool 4

Man U 4 West Ham 4

Stoke 4 Palace 2

West Ham 2 Everton 5

Spurs 4 Everton 3

Villa 2 Stoke 4

Champions' Goals For / Goals Against / Average Scored / Average Conceded / Overall Average Goals Per Game

83 / 23 / 2.2 / 0.6 / 2.8

Bottom Side Goals For / Goals Against / Goals Per Game

27 / 77 / 0.7 / 2 / 2.7

Season 5

Matches with >= 6 goals:

Chelsea 2 Southampton 5

Swansea 4 Ipswich 2

Newcastle 6 Liverpool 1

Liverpool 2 Ipswich 4

Stoke 4 West Brom 4

Newcastle 4 West Ham 3

Liverpool 4 West Brom 4

Chelsea 7 West Brom 1

Fulham 5 Liverpool 2

West Ham 5 Stoke 1

Newcastle 5 Fulham 2

Villa 4 Hull 2

QPR 2 City 4

West Ham 1 Spurs 5

Champions' Goals For / Goals Against / Average Scored / Average Conceded / Overall Average Goals Per Game

88 / 25 / 2.3 / 0.7 / 3

Bottom Side Goals For / Goals Against / Goals Per Game

23 / 89 / 0.6 / 2.3 / 2.9

Season 10

Matches with >= 6 goals:

Liverpool 2 Derby 4

Derby 3 QPR 3

Liverpool 1 Stoke 5

Millwall 4 QPR 3

Arsenal 4 West Ham 5

Reading 1 Spurs 5

Man U 6 Spurs 0

Millwall 4 West Brom 2

Southampton 8 Liverpool 0

Burnley 4 Spurs 3

Sunderland 3 Chelsea 5

Champions' Goals For / Goals Against / Average Scored / Average Conceded / Overall Average Goals Per Game

114 / 25 / 3 / 0.7 / 3.7

Bottom Side Goals For / Goals Against / Goals Per Game

34 / 67 / 0.9 / 1.8 / 2.7

Conclusion?

A few big scores and one statistical blip in season ten where I finally (finally!) managed to average 3 goals per game. I couldn't be bothered to look at each season to tot up the high scoring games, but here are the total average goals per game figures for the entire league at the end of each of my completed seasons:

2.63, 2.63, 2.70, 2.77, 2.68, 2.73, 2.79, 2.81, 2.91, 2.80, 3.01

Not an especially interesting post However, it shows that I've had a few high scoring matches but ultimately everything looks right once all the matches are played.

[andu1]

Any easy way to check formations?

If the matches are in full detail, look at the league table tocheck which teams have high amount of goals scored/conceded, and check their managers preffered formation.

[Cougar2010]

FWIW, when I said Full Detail, I didn't mean just playable. I mean you have to be managing in that league or manually set it to be full detail.

Not sure whether it means much but having a look it has match detail "None" next to most leagues in the game detail.

That said I have all leagues loaded and I can click on games and view match stats which I believe indicates it plays the match.

[Cougar2010]

If the matches are in full detail, look at the league table tocheck which teams have high amount of goals scored/conceded, and check their managers preffered formation.

Thats what I've done and no teams show up as having an extraordinary number of goals scored or conceded so I didn't think there was any point looking at the formations.

[HUNT3R]

Not sure whether it means much but having a look it has match detail "None" next to most leagues in the game detail.

That said I have all leagues loaded and I can click on games and view match stats which I believe indicates it plays the match.

If they're in full detail, you should be able to save the PKM and view highlights.

[andu1]

Not sure whether it means much but having a look it has match detail "None" next to most leagues in the game detail.

That said I have all leagues loaded and I can click on games and view match stats which I believe indicates it plays the match.

I think they are not in full detail , thats why the results are toned down.

[Cougar2010]

If they're in full detail, you should be able to save the PKM and view highlights.

I can view team & player stats from the matches but not view the match itself.

[Cougar2010]

I think they are not in full detail , thats why the results are toned down.

Maybe part of the reason.

I take it you are managing in Argentina then or have set the league to "All"

What about cleaner?

[andu1]

Maybe part of the reason.

I take it you are managing in Argentina then or have set the league to "All"

What about cleaner?

Yes, i started a new game to test the goal amount and i set the results to full detail.

[andu1]

Don't think so, it's not as common as you suggested

you are not using full detail in matches, I can bet.

[Sussex Hammer]

As I play a few more games I admit I am seeing more shots into the corners and off posts into the net which is nice to see. I still think at times strikers do shoot to straight but after further looking it seems to be when they are straight one on ones and volleys from crosses tend to go straight at the keeper a lot but all in all I think it's a pretty good patch.

The one thing I must say I am impressed with in FM15 is that you really can see the difference in quality of the players. In past FM's I always felt even average players were pretty much at the same level as the top ones. Now I see a big difference in say having Balanta at the back paired with Tomkins. You can actually see the difference.

Can I just ask whether a patch takes time to warm up so to speak because as I play more it seems to get better, although that might be because I am suddenly turning my draws into wins!!

[fm10]

when an editor in game in classic Mode?

[DuncanBarr]

Why not?

You gain match fitness by playing, its your job as manager to keep the bulk of your squad match fit. The odd player in a match not match fit isn't an issue if you have many players not fit then its bad management or your squad is too big.

Im Orient- small squad and injuries. Because of this I want to bring them back with match fitness via the reserves, as happens in real life and avoid more injuries. Logic. As I said they dont give us the tools (Ie the responses) to explain this and dont make the players aware of this.