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Wow, some crazy examples of high scoring/high shots on goal here. Did it not show up in testing? I mean someone from the testing team surely must have took control of Real Madrid to test things...

We rarely get the context behind these examples. It seems to be the elite clubs who generate the stats / results, and that seems to be a combination of attacking systems for those clubs against subordinate AI tactics. Ultimately, we have 3 or 4 examples in this thread, so I don't think it is a prevalent bug at all. What would be good is if people could actually explicitly detail the systems generating these outlying stats; it is yet to happen.

As soon as lots of people post examples of season one "inferior" clubs generating these results, then we should definitely start to pay more attention.

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We rarely get the context behind these examples. It seems to be the elite clubs who generate the stats / results, and that seems to be a combination of attacking systems for those clubs against subordinate AI tactics. Ultimately, we have 3 or 4 examples in this thread, so I don't think it is a prevalent bug at all. What would be good is if people could actually explicitly detail the systems generating these outlying stats; it is yet to happen.

As soon as lots of people post examples of season one "inferior" clubs generating these results, then we should definitely start to pay more attention.

I am not having these issues myself for now, but if they do show up I will definetely post it in the bugs forum.

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I am not having these issues myself for now, but if they do show up I will definetely post it in the bugs forum.

Please do, as I still can't quite fathom what creates those results. For sure, it isn't the sort of thing that happens in real life, but the question is just how much the ME would need to be reined in to prohibit it from happening, and what the consequence of that would be for tactics which are arguably better balanced.

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No, things are vanishing into the ether for no other reason than it upsets you and lays bare your counter-productive mindset.

Google "strategic management" to expand your tiny mind beyond coding issues and your quasi-religious insistence that your current methods are beyond question.

Why assume it is me doing the deleting? You need to expand your tiny mind :D Thanks for the tip though :rolleyes:

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Why assume it is me doing the deleting? You need to expand your tiny mind :D Thanks for the tip though :rolleyes:

He's now vanished into the ether along with one or two others :lol:

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We rarely get the context behind these examples. It seems to be the elite clubs who generate the stats / results, and that seems to be a combination of attacking systems for those clubs against subordinate AI tactics. Ultimately, we have 3 or 4 examples in this thread, so I don't think it is a prevalent bug at all. What would be good is if people could actually explicitly detail the systems generating these outlying stats; it is yet to happen.

As soon as lots of people post examples of season one "inferior" clubs generating these results, then we should definitely start to pay more attention.

From what I saw when I ran a short save in the other thread it seems to be caused by the team that is behind pushing forward to try to get back in the match leaving lots of space at the back. The two issues that I would be concerned with is that they do it too early in the match rather than waiting for the later stages and they just keep on doing it even when they go 3+ goals behind.

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From what I saw when I ran a short save in the other thread it seems to be caused by the team that is behind pushing forward to try to get back in the match leaving lots of space at the back. The two issues that I would be concerned with is that they do it too early in the match rather than waiting for the later stages and they just keep on doing it even when they go 3+ goals behind.

Sometimes it is actually working for the AI team, well of sorts.

I would recommend that everyone has the opposition formation window open at all times when playing games and watch just how the other team changes during matches.

I think that is also why we see a lot of posts of teams coming back late in the game.

I just had a game like that where the AI went on the attack with 20 minutes to go and they were 3-0 down and in a game where they were being overrun by my team, a very strange move I thought but they scored 2 goals in 5 minutes, in another game they could have easily lost another 2 goals, the AI seems very aggressive at times, at times when maybe in real life teams would just look to not get to embarrassed.

In that game they had 3 shots on target and scored 2 goals from them, all of which came in the last 18 minutes.

In the time they scored those goals my team had another 5 shots at goal but we scored none from them, we still won the game 3-2 but the score really could have been 7-2 but for poor finishing from my team in the latter stages.

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Hi George. If you feel that there is a problem with the Match Engine, in this case there being too many shots, can you report it as a bug here and we can look into how or why this is happening: http://community.sigames.com/forumdisplay.php/447-Match-Engine-3D-and-Team-Talks

Hi Tony. I've already highlighted this issue in the bugs forums with PKM attached and that was a few months ago during Beta. I was assured that this is a known issue and is being looked into, but it is clear that the deficiency is being overlooked again. I do not think there's any point in me uploading another PKM again.

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Well that didn't take long. Just had my first ragequit after my second friendly game. Playing as Porto at home against a weaker Lyon side. Lost 6-2 at home with 0 cccs against 4.

I play a pretty standard system, 4-5-1 standard fluid, with my best players and i have a decent grasp on tactics and roles lol.

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Hi Tony. I've already highlighted this issue in the bugs forums with PKM attached and that was a few months ago during Beta. I was assured that this is a known issue and is being looked into, but it is clear that the deficiency is being overlooked again. I do not think there's any point in me uploading another PKM again.

A quick review of your 14 posts shows that you uploaded one .pkm with a few potential defensive issues mentioned in it from one match. With the best will in the world, uploading one match from an old match engine is hardly going to conclusively convey your concerns about the current match engine. If you feel there remain issues, then you have the opportunity to express them again in the bugs forum through new examples.

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Hi Tony. I've already highlighted this issue in the bugs forums with PKM attached and that was a few months ago during Beta. I was assured that this is a known issue and is being looked into, but it is clear that the deficiency is being overlooked again. I do not think there's any point in me uploading another PKM again.

There is because we aren't all seeing that which means the devs need to ascertain if there's something unseen causing some to experience high shot counts when others don't

A quick tot up of this season shows my matches normally giving a total between 20 and 30 shots for both teams (with exceptions which I can easily see the reasons for)

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Well that didn't take long. Just had my first ragequit after my second friendly game. Playing as Porto at home against a weaker Lyon side. Lost 6-2 at home with 0 cccs against 4.

I play a pretty standard system, 4-5-1 standard fluid, with my best players and i have a decent grasp on tactics and roles lol.

What's your players match fitness and fitness? All these could affect your preseason results.

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Well that didn't take long. Just had my first ragequit after my second friendly game. Playing as Porto at home against a weaker Lyon side. Lost 6-2 at home with 0 cccs against 4.

I play a pretty standard system, 4-5-1 standard fluid, with my best players and i have a decent grasp on tactics and roles lol.

Given that you lost 6-2 at home against a (perceived) weaker team, is there a possibility that your grasp on tactics and roles is less complete than you think?

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A quick review of your 14 posts shows that you uploaded one .pkm with a few potential defensive issues mentioned in it from one match. With the best will in the world, uploading one match from an old match engine is hardly going to conclusively convey your concerns about the current match engine. If you feel there remain issues, then you have the opportunity to express them again in the bugs forum through new examples.

How can I be sure that i'm would not gonna be given mere lip service again? Testing should be the job of the testing team before release proper (and I do believe that the testers had ample time). But yet I took the effort to upload pkm with specified incident timings, got assured that it is a known issue and being looked into and yet nothing was done to rectify the issue eventually. Lost faith a wee bit. My morale is abysmal currently. Confused and demotivated.

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Player interaction has got worse since the patch - players kicking off wanting new contracts when they only signed one last year.

I find this very aggravating! I sign a few players to multi-year deals one season, our expectations are to just avoid relegation, and then the very next season they are anxious to leave to play in the Champions League or to renegotiate for more money. I had one player demand to renegotiate his contract just 7 months after signing a 4-year deal, and his wage demand was triple his current wage.

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Well that didn't take long. Just had my first ragequit after my second friendly game. Playing as Porto at home against a weaker Lyon side. Lost 6-2 at home with 0 cccs against 4.

I play a pretty standard system, 4-5-1 standard fluid, with my best players and i have a decent grasp on tactics and roles lol.

With the current ME there's no point in playing a conservative-standard approach as your defenders will be overwhelmed if the opposition adopts an adventurous stance against you. What you gotta is to be more adventurous, push men forward and overload their box and hope to out-score them. Closing down doesnt really work in the current ME, so setting your CB to cover and FBs to limited with low closing down might help. In this way most likely they will only be reduced to hopeful long shots.

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How can I be sure that i'm would not gonna be given mere lip service again? Testing should be the job of the testing team before release proper (and I do believe that the testers had ample time). But yet I took the effort to upload pkm with specified incident timings, got assured that it is a known issue and being looked into and yet nothing was done to rectify the issue eventually. Lost faith a wee bit. My morale is abysmal currently. Confused and demotivated.

How do you know your current issue is the same as the previous one with the same cause?

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With the current ME there's no point in playing a conservative-standard approach as your defenders will be overwhelmed if the opposition adopts an adventurous stance against you. What you gotta is to be more adventurous, push men forward and overload their box and hope to out-score them. Closing down doesnt really work in the current ME, so setting your CB to cover and FBs to limited with low closing down might help. Don't play with a high d-line. In this way most likely they will only be reduced to hopeful long shots.

That's just not true. I play with a conservative approach, whilst pushing the line up and closing down to maximum and have conceded 3 in 15.

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With the current ME there's no point in playing a conservative-standard approach as your defenders will be overwhelmed if the opposition adopts an adventurous stance against you. What you gotta is to be more adventurous, push men forward and overload their box and hope to out-score them. Closing down doesnt really work in the current ME, so setting your CB to cover and FBs to limited with low closing down might help. Don't play with a high d-line. In this way most likely they will only be reduced to hopeful long shots.

Complete and utter rubbish.

I play a conservative-standard approach and the four games I've played tonight have finished 3-0, 1-0, 2-0 & 0-0.

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With the current ME there's no point in playing a conservative-standard approach as your defenders will be overwhelmed if the opposition adopts an adventurous stance against you. What you gotta is to be more adventurous, push men forward and overload their box and hope to out-score them. Closing down doesnt really work in the current ME, so setting your CB to cover and FBs to limited with low closing down might help. In this way most likely they will only be reduced to hopeful long shots.

This just isn't true, George. I just won the league with a mid-table team and used quite a conservative tactic to do so. Against the minnows in the league though, I did play a more aggressive football mainly by pushing higher up and closing down a lot too. Both styles, obviously, worked quite well or I wouldn't have won the league.

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I've noticed this too. I use a BWM in the DMC area and all of a sudden that player is getting 7.5+ ratings regularly, regardless of the results

My biggest gripe with this ME is poor first touches and very effective tackling - I've seen my DMC have something like 22 successful tackles from 28 attempts (and often in the high teens), which will usually give a higher match rating, especially if he is also getting a lot of interceptions.

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Complete and utter rubbish.

I play a conservative-standard approach and the four games I've played tonight have finished 3-0, 1-0, 2-0 & 0-0.

Were you playing smaller teams who were sitting back against you. Be honest. XD Conservative-standard only works in such instances from my experience. If you are in the circumstance of the the user that i am addressing, where Porto is having a go at him, then you're in some trouble. The back-line is quite helpless against a team which has men pushing forward against you because there's glaring issues with regards to closing down and defensive pressure. They keep backpeddling and seem reluctant to make challenges until it's way too late.

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They keep backpeddling and seem reluctant to make challenges until it's way too late.

Right there is a sign that you are using poor defensive settings in your tactics.

Defenders back off when they are set on defend duties while also having a more defensive team mentality will make it worse. In any tactic you need players putting pressure on the ball and it seems like you don't understand how to make that happen.

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Were you playing smaller teams who were sitting back against you. Be honest. XD Conservative-standard only works in such instances from my experience. If you are in the circumstance of the the user that i am addressing, where Porto is having a go at him, then you're in some trouble. The back-line is quite helpless against a team which has men pushing forward against you because there's glaring issues with regards to closing down and defensive pressure. They keep backpeddling and seem reluctant to make challenges until it's way too late.

The problem is that users who want to use conservative tactics don't know how to create it. They get it wrong and they rightly get punished. I know I'm generalising, but it's true in most/all cases.

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Defenders back off when they are set on defend duties while also having a more defensive team mentality will make it worse. In any tactic you need players putting pressure on the ball and it seems like you don't understand how to make that happen.

To be fair, the fact that the "Defend" duty hasn't been renamed yet is somewhat ridiculous.

"Your duty is to defend."

"Oh, ok, so you want me to try and stop attacks and get the ball away from the goal? Got it."

"No, it means I want you to play in a deeper position. If that means backing off the striker, so be it."

"Gaffer, you have a strange concept of the word "defend". Also, the word "duty"."

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Right there is a sign that you are using poor defensive settings in your tactics.

Defenders back off when they are set on defend duties while also having a more defensive team mentality will make it worse. In any tactic you need players putting pressure on the ball and it seems like you don't understand how to make that happen.

I have my defenders on high closing down+ tight mark and still all they do is backpeddle and remain extremely passive. I even have tempo set to high/ very high and have the get stuck in option activated. Pray tell me what else do i need to do? I tried attacking mentalities as well but nothing seems to work. Maybe it's the team-talk that has some bearing on performances? I leave it to my assistant normally.

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He (almost) never does. ;)

Almost being the word but on this occasion I'm in quite an odd position which is actually a good example of player interaction as well.

I've taken over Newcastle in October 2021 after they were relegated to the Championship (Previous manager sacked after about 10 matches due to league position).

Despite being favourites to win the league they lost 13 of the main squad over the summer and replaced them with lower standard Championship/League One level players. The ones that were left are unhappy with the team being relegated and want to play in a higher division which has led to poor morale/performances.

One player spoke to the media and forced a move away in January, another tried to but an offer never arrived. Three others have approached me privately and expressed a desire to leave if a bid is made for them which I've agreed to while the others are unhappy/have concerns.

On the other side of the coin I have a large squad and several of the newer players who are 2*/2.5* are now having concerns over playing time as they were signed with first team/rotation squad status.

Despite the problems squad harmony is at 59%, we are up to 3rd in the league playing a conservative style and morale is relatively good aside from two unhappy players.

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I finally fixed some issues I had with the animations, but has anyone noticed a significant slow down in the operation of the UI, specifically when you add in custom graphics (IE Face/logo packs)?

My game ran like a breeze, so I readded my facepacks and such and now it's back to running like trash. Specifically on the tactics screen and/or replacing a player in the lineup in the tactics screen overview. If it's in the normal substitution screen, fine. But overview, it lags like crazy.

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I have my defenders on high closing down+ tight mark and still all they do is backpeddle and remain extremely passive. I even have tempo set to high/ very high and have the get stuck in option activated. Pray tell me what else do i need to do? I tried attacking mentalities as well but nothing seems to work. Maybe it's the team-talk that has some bearing on performances? I leave it to my assistant normally.

Let's continue this conversation in the Tactic and Training Forum. This thread needs to focus on patch feedback. George, I encourage you to open a thread in the T&TF and chances are you will be able to pinpoint some concrete reasons for your experiences as well as some potential solutions.

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I have my defenders on high closing down+ tight mark and still all they do is backpeddle and remain extremely passive. I even have tempo set to high/ very high and have the get stuck in option activated. Pray tell me what else do i need to do? I tried attacking mentalities as well but nothing seems to work. Maybe it's the team-talk that has some bearing on performances? I leave it to my assistant normally.

It depends on your setup. Oddly, you don't mention D-Line? You also mention Tempo which has nothing to do with defending? Based on that, I'd recommend you post in the Tactics forum and give them all the info about your tactic and what the issues are. Maybe they can assist. Actually, I'm sure of it.

Edit: Forgot about the team talk part of your post! Team talks have some bearing, but not as much as you think and it doesn't have to do with the issue you have.

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I have my defenders on high closing down+ tight mark and still all they do is backpeddle and remain extremely passive. I even have tempo set to high/ very high and have the get stuck in option activated. Pray tell me what else do i need to do? I tried attacking mentalities as well but nothing seems to work. Maybe it's the team-talk that has some bearing on performances? I leave it to my assistant normally.

Attributes & playing style are an area you haven't mentioned, some players are more suited to a backing off role, some are more aggressive tacklers. Coach & scout reports can give hints as can watching games.

High closing down + tight mark? I would venture that you are asking too much from your players, especially if they are up against better players. Players can't go 100% for 90 minutes however much you want them to, how tired they are will also affect their game.

Tempo I don't believe has any affect on defence while get stuck in simply sets tackling to hard.

Morale & team talks have some affect but not as major as some users would have you believe.

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Have played around with latest update and early impressions are not great:

- seems to have been a return to punt based football at lower end of the scale with longer passes from back to front and deeper lying midfielders more prevalent/frequent despite instructions to the contrary. This was addressed and certainly improved in last version and made players more able/willing to adhere to tactical and player instructions which would see them pass it shorter and being more patient in their attempts but certainly this has regressed…particularly in low leagues.

In real life lower league teams ARE more than capable of playing like this against other teams of the similar level if coached and instructed/encouraged to play like that so its disappointing that this has gone backwards here. Where lower leagues teams attempts to play this type of football falls down in terms of effectiveness is when they play against higher level teams with who have better players in terms of technique/fitness/organisation/tactics…but they certainly can at least attempt it…from what ive seen so far of update its definitely returned to the too many direct balls/aimless punts.

- first touch has improved a little in terms of a more noticeable difference of top end vs lower end but overall its still weak with many heavy touches resulting in turnovers of possession…still agility and players turning laterally/diagonally and at angles still a huge issue resulting in lost possession/players being dipossessed

- There is uncontestably an issue with number of shots being taken under certain tactical settings tho admittedly it appears to be to better teams that are doing it primarily. Played eight matches with Barca and shot counts were 45 32 23 37 32 53 30 34 (a few of those on holiday mode). This with control mentality. Ive posted about it before and again this is indicative of team playing with an intent to get a shot off at the end of a move and not moving the ball around enough as the likes of a barca would do in terms of probing for an opening rather than probing for an opportunity to get a shot away. I’ve read where some question the AIs ability to deal with this and allows it to happen which is definitely true to a point but really whats at play as well is a team set up to play a much lower tempo/retain possession/work ball into box with player instructions set to shoot less shouldn’t be attempting so many shots in the first place (using control and varying from highly structured to highly fluid doesn’t really make a difference). That 53 was actually on holiday mode but to use current tactics/team selection and was against Real madrid…ie 53 shots for Barca Vs Real Madrid…again control was strategy…nonsensical.

Look at real life stats for la liga highest is real madrid taking 18 shots per game and Barca 17 (rounded up). This despite facing most opponents who defend deep against them. Bottom line is Barca or Real Madrid despite their possession/territorial dominance of their opponents SIMPLY DO NOT ATTEMPT so many shots per game as this is not their approach to try and score a goal…its not how they or their players see the game. Even Ronaldo whose sole focus is to score a goal and glory hunting has an average of 6 shots per game (looking back to as far as 09/10 while Ron at Madrid his most shots per game was over 7 and Madrids 21.5 was highest team average over that period).

The numbers FM produces above re barca whilst are outlyers to the overall game average ARE the ACTUAL average for a user controlled team in this instance where many games are a mismatch. In real life when teams sit back and defend deep to contain space around the penalty area teams like barca and madrid could choose to set up to shoot and still get off many many shots but they simply don’t…they still choose to probe and play patiently to wait for openings.

The best ive seen in latest update with barca was when tactics were contain and even selecting play safe/waste time along with usuals of shoot less/work ball into box short passing etc etc still produced a game of 34 shots which is completely absurd…yes there was more patience and probing exhibited by barca but still way way too many shots were attempted…and not even because opposition defended in box and left area outside free for team to shoot…opposition was not even that deep but seeing many passages of play where passes end up funnelled towards central striker (playing false nine) and he elects to shoot the far too much of the time.

Last game there against Dortmund in champs qtr final just had 28 shots to their 6 which really should not happen in a million years choosing contain tactics (changed from structured to very fluid at half time)…how can that happen ??? There is something at play which overrides team strategy and player instructions which makes them want to get shots away rather than recycling possession patiently looking to exploit openings through passing/movement. Its not completely a reflection of opposition/AI approach either…yes it doesn’t help in terms of it can certainly offer up plenty of opportunities to shoot BUT team under instruction shouldn’t be attempting them in the first place.

Another thing which doesn’t help is that movement off the ball seems worse than previous version in the attacking third…playing a 4231 play as said seems to funnel through a central striker who takes pot shots from outside the box (generally outside). There is little movement off the ball from the 3 of 4231 offering options off the ball once the ball goes to the 1…in terms of movement running past the 1 or even out to in movement off the ball diagonally…similarly not a huge amount when the midfielders or attacking midfielders have possession…definitely less than last version. Often see ball go to the 1 and other players don’t do anything leaving player option to shoot or turn back…to turn back and recycle is fine but they don’t do that and ultimately issue is players off the ball movement is insufficient to get other players in position to threaten the goal anyway so takes shot. Perhaps tweaking players mentalities to have more attacking/team attacking will have the 3 give more options in terms of they will be further forward and not always behind the 1.

Also Messi/Neymar having instances where they get to a certain point and could take on last defender yet rarely do where they opt to take a shot instead.

Just to say I have seen some good play but the thing is it is the exception rather than the rule…and I mean it just doesn’t seem to be attempted as frequently as it should. Will mess around with a few other options to see but definitely in control and other TIs/PIs teams are taking far too many shots.

Overall the quality of attacking play seems patchier and less fluid than last iteration but early days...will see.

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Attributes & playing style are an area you haven't mentioned, some players are more suited to a backing off role, some are more aggressive tacklers. Coach & scout reports can give hints as can watching games.

High closing down + tight mark? I would venture that you are asking too much from your players, especially if they are up against better players. Players can't go 100% for 90 minutes however much you want them to, how tired they are will also affect their game.

Tempo I don't believe has any affect on defence while get stuck in simply sets tackling to hard.

Morale & team talks have some affect but not as major as some users would have you believe.

The thing is when I specify high closing down and tight marking from my players i would expect them to at least show some effort in exerting pressure on the opposition, which they hardly do and its infuriating. And I am playing as teams like Everton, whose players have high work-rate and aggression, so attributes can't be a problem really. I really believe this to be a valid issue and the folks in the bugs forums have admitted as much.

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Has anyone else noticed the upsurge in player ratings for your DMC's or defensively minded CM's since the update? Just lost 3-1 to Burnley, where the team were awful, but somehow Rodwell got an 8.7 rating despite not being involved in our only goal. Noticed this on another couple of my saves too.

There is more tackling happening now, and better passing (more key passes) from midfield and DMC, which leads to overall better ratings for players in those positions, compared to 15.2.1, in my experience so far. Before 15.3, my halfback used to avoid engaging the opponent attackers, now he is putting in many tackles, like my defenders. I like it, whether this was a specific fix, or a knock on.

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Things i've noticed post-patch:-

1) Players are shooting far too many times from llong distance even when instructions are given to counteract it

2) Wingers dont seem to want to run. They plod even with 20 pace

3) Quite a few shots are missed from 2 yards out

4) Quite a few games i am having 25+ shots even with 'work ball into box' 'low tempo' etc checked

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A little disappointment for me is the penalty conversion ratio - it seems like it has increased to above 90% again, just like it did in the latest patch for FM14, although not as bad (it was around 97-98% in FM14). I counted 75 penalties so far, and only 6 were missed, which makes it 92%. It is disappointing for me when small things like this keep getting ignored again and again.

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hey, so after quitting and starting Steam and FM's demo for a couple of times, I still can't seem to start a game with the transfer update. Is this supposed to be this way? I think I've read someone saying that the demo has been updated...

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hey, so after quitting and starting Steam and FM's demo for a couple of times, I still can't seem to start a game with the transfer update. Is this supposed to be this way? I think I've read someone saying that the demo has been updated...

Its probably been patched but its unlikely it uses the new database.

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hey, sorry if this was asked before, and sorry for my english, but in the match when you have this to tick Phx4EkT.png, i cant tick the ones that i have ticked before the patch

in the previous patch i had a tick in League Table and Match Data, i closed the game and update it to 15.3, and now when i tick those, the box doesent show, but if i tick another one it does, the problem is with those 2, the ones i had ticked before

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hey, sorry if this was asked before, and sorry for my english, but in the match when you have this to tick , i cant tick the ones that i have ticked before the patch

in the previous patch i had a tick in League Table and Match Data, i closed the game and update it to 15.3, and now when i tick those, the box doesent show, but if i tick another one it does, the problem is with those 2, the ones i had ticked before

Clicking on Restore All at the bottom, should fix your issue.

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