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My Development thread for FM15 - Let's get to work.....


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And so it begins………

Greetings all, I’m happy to report that I’m back and fired up for FM15.

I learn’t a lot from FM14 which will hopefully stand me in good stead for the challenges of FM15 which already looks very promising.

One of things I’ve learnt is that I need a more structured approach to developing tactics as I simply spent far too much time last year chasing my tail seeking perfection when I already had very effective tactics out.

To that end I intend to limit myself to 3 basic formations, with 2 variants of each. One attacking, one counter/controlling so you can adapt to opponents and match situations accordingly.

The formations are;

4132

Has been my ‘staple’ formation for a couple of seasons.

Strengths – Offers good coverage across central midfield providing a sound defensive platform whilst allowing us the luxury of 2 strikers

Weakness – Width can only really come from the Full Back positions. I need to establish whether we can ‘get away’ with giving these attacking roles or if not how best to utilise a Full Back on Support.

442

My ‘vision’ of 442 entails dynamic wide play with out and out wingers hammering up the flanks, staying wide and drilling crosses from the byline.

Strengths – Attacks built around the delivery of crosses into the box can be deadly with the right personnel in the wide and striking positions. Lots of tap in’s from close range for your strikers.

Weakness – Any formation without a holding DM was ruthlessly exposed during last year’s game. We need to mitigate that with the right roles and duties in the central midfield areas.

4231 DM

As in my Triple XXX tactics from last year. Essentially you have 2 units, 6 responsible for defensive, 4 for attack. However you need to ‘blur’ those lines with the correct roles & duties to ensure attacks are supported and your 4 ‘attackers’ contribute to defence.

Strengths – You can let 4 attacking players off the leash to create havoc when attacking with lots of creative freedom & movement making it very difficult for defenders to pick up your attackers without being pulled out of position.

Weakness – It will take a lot of work to get exactly the right player roles & duties in all areas to ensure the 2 units link up in both attack and defence so you don’t have a great big hole in the centre of midfield. This may well turn out to be a high tempo, counter attacking tactic with the 2 DM’s acting as ‘Quarterbacks’ pinging balls into your front 4.

Outside of that, I intend to take a minimalist approach to Team Instructions using them to set up the basic framework of the tactic, Defensive Line, Tempo, Passing Range etc. You won’t see a tactic from me with 11 team instructions.

Similar with the Player Instructions, the roles are already well thought out so no need to mess them up, 1 or 2 tweaks only.

My tactics this year will be defined and driven by Player Roles & Duties as I believe that’s how the Tactics Creator is designed to be used.

I will test with Man City as they have arguably the strongest squad in the Division and West Brom as they are weak without being absolutely useless.

I will not be releasing any tactic during the Beta period as last year, on full release the Match Engine was quite different. I do intend to have all 6 tactics primed and ready to test in time for the official release.

I will however detail what I’m working on, players roles I’m using along with team instructions so if you want to set up similar tactics and feedback you’re more than welcome.

Here’s to another successful year on FM!

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Interested in your 4-2-3-1, if I might make a request would you be able to experiment with 2 versions of these? The wide one and the narrow?

In my theorycrafting for the wide one, I find there's a real risk of a lack of attacks into the box unless the wide players (WB) are given a lot more license to get forward. :)

Do you mean the 4132 or 4231?

The 4231 has AMR/AML so no lack of width in that one.

I think you mean the 4132 where there is a potential issue.

I had a quick look at the wide one last night....... and it frightens me....... massive holes in midfield.

The narrow one will likely involve at least one fullback on attack, especially the attacking version and they do get very high up the pitch.

If a lack of width remains a problem i'll see if there is a player instruction/role for the wider central midfielders which makes them play a bit wider i might use that on at least one of them. I think 'run wide with ball' is still an option but there might be something else.

We could also make one of the strikers play a bit wider, perhaps on the opposite flank to our attack minded full back, we will likely have one central midfielder on 'attack' and this will create space for him to run into as well.

Will see how it goes.

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I have a good squad to test both the 4-1-3-2 and the 4-2-3-1. With the former I'd probably have to tweak a role for ozil as he's lazy and wont be any good at tracking back.

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I have a good squad to test both the 4-1-3-2 and the 4-2-3-1. With the former I'd probably have to tweak a role for ozil as he's lazy and wont be any good at tracking back.

In the 4132 Ozil could potentially play as the deeper striker, but initially at least i'm intending the deeper striker to be Target Man/Support so it wouldn't suit him at all. If i don't like the behaviour of the TM/S in game i'll probably go down the False 9 or Deep Lying Forward route which he might do quite well in. The Deeper Forward role is the one i'm least settled on and is up for grabs.

The centre of the midfield trio will be on attack duty with a bit of license to roam so he could possible do that role, however in FM14 i found him useless anywhere other than his natural position. Maybe it will be different on FM15.

Or you might just have to be ruthless, I love Navas but he has no role in the 4132 and will have to go in my City test. (In the other to systems he'll be great)

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Do you mean the 4132 or 4231?

The 4231 has AMR/AML so no lack of width in that one.

I think you mean the 4132 where there is a potential issue.

I had a quick look at the wide one last night....... and it frightens me....... massive holes in midfield.

The narrow one will likely involve at least one fullback on attack, especially the attacking version and they do get very high up the pitch.

If a lack of width remains a problem i'll see if there is a player instruction/role for the wider central midfielders which makes them play a bit wider i might use that on at least one of them. I think 'run wide with ball' is still an option but there might be something else.

We could also make one of the strikers play a bit wider, perhaps on the opposite flank to our attack minded full back, we will likely have one central midfielder on 'attack' and this will create space for him to run into as well.

Will see how it goes.

4-2-3-1.

The wide, is as you say; AMR/L/C with 2DM

The narrow one I was thinking of is the 2DM, 3AMC.

Unless I;m visualising the 4-1-3-2 wrong? :)

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4-2-3-1.

The wide, is as you say; AMR/L/C with 2DM

The narrow one I was thinking of is the 2DM, 3AMC.

Unless I;m visualising the 4-1-3-2 wrong? :)

Ok, gotcha. 3 AMC'S as opposed to AML/AMC/AMR.

I guess it would come down to the match engine. If playing thru the middle is very effective then the 3 AMC route could tap into that nicely. If crossing & wide play is effective then the AMR/AML should come into there own. Either way we'll get 'em!

The 'hybrid' option is to set up AMR/AMC/AML but use inside forwards so they start wide and move centrally.

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Ok, this my first attempt at the 4132.

7g7VOvP.png

And as they've ruined the tactics screen i'll have to show you player roles like this.

uIKwPAc.png

ATTACKING/FLUID

It wont let me capture an image of team instructions so they are;

HIGHER TEMPO

GET STUCK IN

TIGHTER MARKING

LOOK FOR OVERLAP

DROP DEEPER

SHORT PASSING

Player Instructions

GK - PASS IT SHORTER, DISTRIBUTE TO FULL BACKS

BOTH DC'S - SHORTER PASSING

RIGHT FB - NOTHING

LEFT CWB - NOTHING

ANCHOR- SHORTER PASSING

CM/A - SHORTER PASSING, CLOSE DOWN MORE

CM/S - SHORTER PASSING, CLOSE DOWN MUCH MORE

CM/D - SHORTER PASSING, CLOSE DOWN MUCH MORE

DLF - NOTHING

CF - NOTHING

So what's going on?

All main duties present in Defensive and Midfield lines (defence, support, attack). This should lead to good coverage of the pitch and lots of vertical movement and overlapping.

Left flank we have our attacking Wingback, to compensate for him going walkabout the left sided central midfielder is set to defend to cover for him. The CB on that side is set to Cover duty to also help cover gaps. We are sitting fairly deep so i'm not concerned with an offside trap.

Right flank i've found that 2 players on support duty work well in tandem, the right side of our midfield trio and the right FB. Expecting good interplay between them whilst holding this area defensively between them.

The central midfielder is set up to link with the deep lying forward, helping build attacks, overlapping and arriving into the box to finish. He helps ensure our strikers don't get isolated.

We have a spearhead for our attacks in the shape of a Complete Forward with the tactic designed to set him up with chances from a wide range of supply avenues.

NOTES

Was going to go with a Target Man in the support striking role but i picked up in the main thread that defenders were seemingly hoofing it straight to Target Men so that put me off. Might revisit that after full release. In the meantime the DLF is a safe bet.

The DM was tricky. Was dying to use a deep lying playmaker but I didn't really want my DM attracting a lot of ball so went with the safe option again.

No playmakers in the team but that should suit the Attacking/Fluid set up as we are adopting a 'universal' approach where the team operates as a unit with out the need to build teams around 1 brilliant individual.

Team/Player Instructions.

HIGHER TEMPO - This tactic is designed to be attacking for situations where you feel you are stronger or at least equal to your opponent. In these scenarios opponents will set up defensively with men quickly behind the ball when they lose possession. We are seeking to hit them before they are properly organised.

GET STUCK IN - We are after physicality in our game as well. Winning the ball back early can set up very effective attacks. We dont went teams comfortable in possession.

TIGHTER MARKING - Tough call this one, again we are seeking to deny easy possession.

LOOK FOR OVERLAP - Midfielders will overlap our DLF, our Wingback will overlap everyone! Lets use it. Makes our attacking a bit more considered as well.

DROP DEEPER - A bug bear of mine is being caught out with long balls over the top. Our attacking mentality is pulling us up the pitch, just need to check that a little.

SHORTER PASSING - This is reinforced in some of the player instructions. We are attacking, high tempo which will encourage us to be a little more direct. We still want to win the possession battle and we're not using retain possession. Again, we just want to make sure we don't give the ball away to easily.

CLOSING DOWN - Our midfield trio are set to press hard. The strikers will also press but not massively, the back 5 should remain largely in position. We are happy for our 3 midfielders to work very hard and chase, yes they will get pulled around but our defensive unit is in position. By doing this they will force mistakes and we will regain possession high up the pitch.

EXPECTATIONS - This tactic should suit a strong team and i'm expecting it to go well with Man City. Could come undone against the strongest opponents.

Time to put it in action......

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In my experience, this year a CM with the defend instruction plays a lot deeper than last year. I've been playing this formation so far:

formation_zps5cd3618c.png

And whether its been at Stoke, Barca, Chelsea and now at Real Madrid, the player in the role Khedira is sat in will be often dropping back to make it 5 men at the back.

Edit: That's when we lose possession, otherwise he tends to sit a bit deeper in the middle of the park.

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I used my tactics 3-4-2-1 in Korona Kielce in Poland Ekstraklasa. Not good team and not good players.

So i have interested score. Won 4-3 vs Lech Poznan when i lose 3-1 to 70 minutes in match. Very nice comback. What can i say nice tactics i try to modeled in tactics Pep Guardiola from real. I try to set my player and give real roles from real to game. Sorry for my english anyway.

I dont know what roles to give in 3 attackers. I no have good scores and no mutch goals oh. Any suggestions.

My attackers roles is :

False 9

False Attackers

Classic 10

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I used my tactics 3-4-2-1 in Korona Kielce in Poland Ekstraklasa. Not good team and not good players.

So i have interested score. Won 4-3 vs Lech Poznan when i lose 3-1 to 70 minutes in match. Very nice comback. What can i say nice tactics i try to modeled in tactics Pep Guardiola from real. I try to set my player and give real roles from real to game. Sorry for my english anyway.

I dont know what roles to give in 3 attackers. I no have good scores and no mutch goals oh. Any suggestions.

My attackers roles is :

False 9

False Attackers

Classic 10

Apologies, didn't realise this was a serious question!

I have no experience of any tactic shaped like that and I dont generally use AMC's so i can't really advise.

Take a look at this thread, should cover what you're after and a lot more.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/375632-Pairs-amp-Combinations-The-Complete-Series-*UPDATED*

Good Luck !

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In my experience, this year a CM with the defend instruction plays a lot deeper than last year. I've been playing this formation so far:

formation_zps5cd3618c.png

And whether its been at Stoke, Barca, Chelsea and now at Real Madrid, the player in the role Khedira is sat in will be often dropping back to make it 5 men at the back.

Edit: That's when we lose possession, otherwise he tends to sit a bit deeper in the middle of the park.

I'm quite happy with the CM/D playing deeper. I have a DM anchoring though so I guess mine might not drop as deep as yours as you have no one operating in the DM Strata.

How are you finding playing with 2 Strikers and 2 inside forwards, is it not getting congested up there?

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Ok, off to a great start in the Man City test.

I accidently played the Charity Shield with Control Mentality instead of Attacking (genius) and scraped a win on penalties.

After that swapped to Attacking as should be and we've won every game without breaking sweat.

QhEN8iv.png

2-0 is a popular score!

As this is the attacking variant i'm slightly concerned we're not scoring more but we've just stuck 5 passed QPR and we've scored at least 2 goals in every game whilst being uber solid at the back so i'm not going to change anything at the moment.

The Control version with a slow tempo and retain possession should be an absolute nightmare to breakdown, looking forward to testing that.

Aguero is loving the Complete Forward role with 10 goals in 9 games, 9 goals in 6 league games!

I have the Strikers swapping at the moment. I'll turn that off and see how that changes things.

azv8WEA.png

So far very happy with how the tactic has started, didn't expect this one to be so good at the back.

Working today but will be on it tonight and are off next week so will be able to put some hours in :thup:

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What often happens is that as the inside forwards come inside, the strikers will push out a bit wider so I'm often seeing, with Real Madrid for example that it lines up:

Benzema - Bale - Rodriguez - Ronaldo (which in turn led me to change the team, so that Ronaldo was on AML and Bale on AMR, put Hernandez at DLF and Benzema at AF, meant Ronaldo and Bale were generally then leading the attack)

With a lot of crosses coming in or short passes between the front four. How are the majority of your sides goals coming? One of the first things I tried to do when I got on the beta was emulate your tactics from last year with how effective they were, and while solid at the back the strikers were always getting isolated which saw me change the shape to the 4-4-2/4-2-4.

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Not an obvious goal scoring pattern yet.

I've had Jovetic lob the keeper from the halfway line (no joke), Fernandinho scored 3 from corners in the lurking role, Aguero appears to be faster than Usain Bolt scoring great breakaway goals and he's first to any ball rebounding in the box. The rest from crosses.

Last year I found big, powerful Strikers to be most effective. This year its looking like small, quick agile players will mop up. Aguero's gonna be a nightmare :lol:

I'm averaging 19 chances per game in total.

A lot of people on the main forum are complaining about very high scoring games, losing 8-3 and stuff??

Not seen any of that yet, in fact loving the Match Engine, zoomed vertical scrolling is a joy to watch.

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Aguero is destroying the league in my Arsenal save. 12 goals in 5 games.Mr U are you finding that instructing your midfielders to close down is either tiring them out or dragging them out of your defensive shape? I had to tell my two wingers to stop closing down as I found that with it on, they were dragged closer to the centre and hence I didn't have an outlet when winning the ball.

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Aguero is destroying the league in my Arsenal save. 12 goals in 5 games.Mr U are you finding that instructing your midfielders to close down is either tiring them out or dragging them out of your defensive shape? I had to tell my two wingers to stop closing down as I found that with it on, they were dragged closer to the centre and hence I didn't have an outlet when winning the ball.

I'm not using wingers so I don't have that particular issue, but yes heavy closing down will pull players & the team out of position/shape.

That's why you need to think carefully about who in the team will be doing it.

I would leave at least 5 of your most defensive players on their default setting, certainly don't have your Centre Backs closing down hard. If your playing with 2 strikers its probably preferable to have one pressing but not both, as you suggested you need an out ball. Unless you are going for some kind of Red Bull Saltzburg pressing system.

I would suggest the likely area for high pressing would be the midfield strata, your defence is in good shape behind you and you have out balls in front of you. But it depends on formation.

Bear in mind i've seen very effective tactics with minimal pressing so you don't have to go down that route, personally i like to have a central, hard working 'engine' in the middle of the park so i burden my midfielders with this role, but that's just me.

Re tiredness, once i get into the team building/player roles Work Rate & Stamina will be key for anyone asked to perform a heavy pressing role.

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Good points. I set my striker to close down the keeper which actually works well (Welbeck is quick and works hard). Seems an easy way to turn over possession as keepers with poor decision stats end up blasting the ball out or giving it away with a poor kick up the pitch.

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I've had an awful lot of success with short passing so far, it may be that direct passing is more effective but it doesn't prevent short passing from working.

I've decided to try and match your line up though Rosler, started a fresh save with Chelsea and have noticed away from home I'm often drawing 1-1. Though in each case it has been very poor defending down to the goal conceded.

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This ME doesnt favour short passing but direct passing. I think once its updated it can change but as of now, if you want an decent attack you gotta go direct

I also read that article but don't think its as clear cut as that.

I'm using short passing and I have a decent attack already.

By employing an Attacking Mentality & a High Tempo the passing range is increased anyway so I would consider the play with my tactic to be 'mixed' which i'm very happy with.

If you dropped the Tempo and added Retain Possession you might run into problems, funnily enough after running a season with this tactic i'll be testing that approach next so we'll find out.

Things in FM are never black and white and just because someone has written a blog with a couple of pretty pictures it doesn't make what he's saying fact.

If there is a bias towards long passing it will likely be nerfed on release anyway so any gains will be short lived.

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I've had an awful lot of success with short passing so far, it may be that direct passing is more effective but it doesn't prevent short passing from working.

I've decided to try and match your line up though Rosler, started a fresh save with Chelsea and have noticed away from home I'm often drawing 1-1. Though in each case it has been very poor defending down to the goal conceded.

As you can see not had that pattern in my save yet, although away games are obviously tougher.

Be interested to see how you get on longer term.

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As you can see not had that pattern in my save yet, although away games are obviously together.

Be interested to see how you get on longer term.

I think the problem is the Chelsea midfield, Fabregas, Hazard & Oscar as the central three is too lightweight, it works at home when the opposition are likely to sit deeper so I'm going to try Ramires and Obi Mikel in the middle three to try and add a bit more resilience.

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I think the problem is the Chelsea midfield, Fabregas, Hazard & Oscar as the central three is too lightweight, it works at home when the opposition are likely to sit deeper so I'm going to try Ramires and Obi Mikel in the middle three to try and add a bit more resilience.

That makes sense.

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The change of midfield for away games has made a massive difference. Diego Costa is no match for the performance of Aguero though. Although looking at Aguero's attributes, 19 acceleration is going to be incredibly helpful. I think Juventus probably have the best midfield for this kind of tactic, Asamoah, Vidal, Pogba & Marchisio.

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The change of midfield for away games has made a massive difference. Diego Costa is no match for the performance of Aguero though. Although looking at Aguero's attributes, 19 acceleration is going to be incredibly helpful.

That's encouraging, I'm forcing Nasri or Silva to play central midfield support, doesn't suit either of them really. Square pegs in round holes etc.

If I was taking the save beyond 1 season i'd be looking for a Monster in the CM/D slot, a nasty physical beast, and someone with 19/20 work rate in the CM/S with decent all round attributes. And natural midfielders ideally.

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Mr Rowsler what kind of preseason/season training are you doing on your saves? Have you encountered x number of player unhappy with training?

I've had no issues with training brought to me. In November now.

Still not fully fluid with tactic so still full match training on tactics, general on balanced (did a couple of months on team blend).

Think they will tweak this before full release so players aren't as moody. I wouldnt stress about it now.

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I really like you & your tactics rosler you're a very good football manager player will be following your threads with interest regardless if I post in them or not.

I appreciate that :thup:

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As i've just lost my 23 game unbeaten run its a good time for an update.

aaGIlen.png

I lost a save so had to replay 3 games but the results were the same with similar scorelines.

Cant complain, not really regularly blowing teams away but we are ruthlessly efficient.

Chelsea are my main rival and arrived at my place unbeaten and in great form....... not for long.

Z5XrxVi.png

In terms of the tactic, its functioning pretty much as i envisioned.

The Deep Lying Forward plays VERY deep which was a bit of a concern but his contribution to all round play is excellent. Jovetic is outstanding here but he gets injured a lot, Dzeko is less effective. A mobile, creative player here will do very well.

Most chances fall to the Complete Forward which is what we want.

I also wanted a genuine goal scoring threat from midfield and the CM/a role is bringing the very best out of Toure.

The position i'm not sure about is the DM, my Anchor is getting low ratings but thats probably because he does a lot of dirty work and doesn't assist, score. Defensively we are excellent so i dont want to lose that by using a more expansive role here.

Overall very happy, still unbeaten in the League, out of my Champions League group, in quarters of League CUp.

I have a nice running battle with Arsene Wenger, played and beaten him 3 times already...... he's not taking that well, bless him :)

BiLeJPu.png

6LeBfCS.png

Lets see if we can win the league and maybe a cup.

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Rosler I want to thank you.

I was reading this post and was thinking why do i have to make things so difficult.

At the moment i'm trying a game with Whitehawk (VCN/VCS) and after reading your post i used your

guidelines from your 4132 for my 4-4-2. The result is AMAZING !!!

Unbeaten for 5 games with a GD of +14 (19/5)

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Nice update Mr U. Great run! I'm having issues using this in the VC/N. Any ideas on how I can make it slightly more defensive? I'm creating a good amount of chances but struggling to control the game.

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Nice update Mr U. Great run! I'm having issues using this in the VC/N. Any ideas on how I can make it slightly more defensive? I'm creating a good amount of chances but struggling to control the game.

This type of set up usually favours stronger teams. When I test it with West Brom I domy expect it to go well.

The version for weaker teams involves, low tempo, retain possession, balanced, control.

I'll be testing that next, if you make those adjustments it should help you out.

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What I like about your threads Mr U Rosler is that it's not just - here, download, you will win guaranteed, but that you explain your reasonings and developments. This way someone can look at the ideas but build their own tactic based on the inputs as well or at least understand why they're using your tactic and what it should do.

For me this is one of the most important aspects of this game and I really don't understand people who just come and download a tactic and play. If you win, do you know why? Yes, this guy made a great tactic. For me personally it doesn't give enough satisfaction. If I win or my team does well, I want it to be my doings - of course you can always take ideas and advise and this is where I like such discussions.

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Cheers, I'll make those tweaks when I'm home tonight - I'll let you know how it goes.

By the way, Keepers making silly mistakes, especially lower league, was an acknowledged issue stated at the release of the beta. Not sure if you've seen that.

I haven't come across it myself but i'm only dealing with top class keepers.

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What I like about your threads Mr U Rosler is that it's not just - here, download, you will win guaranteed, but that you explain your reasonings and developments. This way someone can look at the ideas but build their own tactic based on the inputs as well or at least understand why they're using your tactic and what it should do.

For me this is one of the most important aspects of this game and I really don't understand people who just come and download a tactic and play. If you win, do you know why? Yes, this guy made a great tactic. For me personally it doesn't give enough satisfaction. If I win or my team does well, I want it to be my doings - of course you can always take ideas and advise and this is where I like such discussions.

Yeah, that's the idea.

I'd be developing tactics anyway, so i might as well document it in public. I like writing and this give's me an outlet for it.

I'm basically just 'following the rules' set out by wwfan and others.

But reading a bunch of text explaining the rules/guidelines and seeing someone publicly implement those rules, explain them and posting results etc are 2 very different things.

Some good ideas come out in the threads as well that i haven't thought of so everybody wins.

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I'll try and answer everyone's questions in one go.

I won't be releasing any tactic during the beta.

I will however be preparing and testing 6 tactics ready for the full release.

They will be home & away (favorite/underdog) versions of the 3 tactics outlined in my first post.

I'll be testing favourite tactic with Man City, underdog with West Brom.

I'll also do some cross testing I.e underdog with Man City - Favourite with West Brom to confirm the Match Engine is working the way I think it is.

That's a lot of testing, I will update my progress daily here.

Once the Match Engine is updated on release I'll need to test again to establish everything still works.

I will then release the tactic sets 1 at a time with full player guides and a few other thoughts I have on the game.

I hope that clears things up!

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