An other Counter Press thread. This time we'll make it right

[CRN711]

Hello. Like many people here, I want to play a Counter Press style of football (Like Dortmund). I'm playing as Liverpool, first season in december. I have just played a game with that tactic, a 4-2 win against Newcastle.

But first, a look at the tactic and what I want.

The starting position:

What I want when attacking:

What I want when defending:

The tactic:

The Newcastle game's stats:

What I feel for this game is that we could have a better defense set up, a higher pressing sometimes. And if you have any other advice or anything, it will be very helpful. I will update the thread as my next game is against Man City

[thizaum]

I play a similar formation based on a thread from 2011 for emulating Barça.

I had a few tweaks based on the new roles. But here's what I have to say based on what I learned:

- you have a Treq, an AP and a Reg, but you're playing very fluid. Try setting it to balanced or changing the roles. I understand that you want Gerrard to be your Pirlo, so leave him as Reg and change the others like Lucas as CM too and the treq...

- when I played Treq, it just didn't work for me. I don't really know if he was being too selfish or too lazy on defense, but what of kind of did it for me was the DLF-s. But that's because I was accepting him becoming more of a creator for the wingers. I don't think that this is your case. So I would suggest changing one of the wingers to the support duty and trying different roles on attack duty for your striker. I'd also try setting him to move into channels because this will help your front 4 a lot.

- I don't think you need the play narrow and the play out of defense... Try removing them.

[CRN711]

- I'm playing very rigid, I'll try to change Lucas role

- I already tried, with an other tactic, to play Strurridge as F9 but it didn't work very well. In the Treq role he does what I want from him. With an attack duty, won't he be too isolated?

I'll try it anyway.

- The play narrow instruction is set because without it I'm affraid that the IF will be too far of the center of the pitch.

The game against Man Cityn which was played before I see the post of thizaum:

We lost 2-4. What a shame at home.. They scored from a through ball above Balanta, a header of Kompany on a freekick, a header from Negredo on a corner, and Aguero score on that opportunities (which wasn't a counter attack from they):

We scored thanks to a Lovren header on a corner, and a Kompany own goal on a corner too.

The game's stats:

As you can see we had more CCC than them so it must be a lack of luck. So the problems that came through this game are:

-The set piece defense

- The finishing of our chances

- The team was quite deep on the pitch even with push higher. It may be due to the fact that Man City are a better team than us, I don't know.

- And the most important problem, we don't get the ball fast enough to their part of the pitch.

- We make too much fools, how to reduce it?

[allyc31]

Hey,

i messed about with this a lot with Everton and ended up with a pretty solid tactic for counter pressing

Defensive Forward is told to hold up the ball and shoot less.

Thats about it.

[CRN711]

Thanks for your answer, but I don't want to copy someone tactic. I want to make my own and understand what I change etc. But I still have a question, why do you choose very fluid? And why attacking instead of counter?

[thizaum]

- I'm playing very rigid, I'll try to change Lucas role

- I already tried, with an other tactic, to play Strurridge as F9 but it didn't work very well. In the Treq role he does what I want from him. With an attack duty, won't he be too isolated?

I'll try it anyway.

- The play narrow instruction is set because without it I'm affraid that the IF will be too far of the center of the pitch.

The game against Man Cityn which was played before I see the post of thizaum:

We lost 2-4. What a shame at home.. They scored from a through ball above Balanta, a header of Kompany on a freekick, a header from Negredo on a corner, and Aguero score on that opportunities (which wasn't a counter attack from they):

We scored thanks to a Lovren header on a corner, and a Kompany own goal on a corner too.

The game's stats:

As you can see we had more CCC than them so it must be a lack of luck. So the problems that came through this game are:

-The set piece defense

- The finishing of our chances

- The team was quite deep on the pitch even with push higher. It may be due to the fact that Man City are a better team than us, I don't know.

- And the most important problem, we don't get the ball fast enough to their part of the pitch.

- We make too much fools, how to reduce it?

How did it go???

I ended up having second thoughts about my formation after what I told you.

I have a wonderkid as a striker and really wanted him to be the best player in the team. He has all the right attributes for a Treq, but I gave up on the treq and first played him as a DLF-s and then CF-a.

Against good teams, the DLF-s would always have lower ratings. As a CF-a, he'd either score one or two goals and have a nice rating, or don't and be the worst in the team. Actually, I guess this is what happens will lone strikers.

But I wanted him to be both a creator and a scorer. I guess this can be accomplished with either Treq and CF.

I think I'll give it another try with the Treq and see how it goes.

And sorry about the very rigid thing. I thought I saw very fluid.

[CRN711]

I changed Lucas role to BWM, he played better than in AP.

The striker is now set on CF - A with move into channels and it works very well. Sturridge now scores and assists. Sterling scores also more goals from IF position since the change. I might try to buy Cavani or Falcao like LFC try IRL.

But the "probelm" is that games I played since the changes are easy games so I can't really juge.

From what I saw we're close to it, but the defense struggle a bit. Pictures are better than words:

Or things like this:

Ending up like that:

Thanks to god, Mignolet made the game of his life against Everton

And also I don't know how to make the pressing better, sometimes my players just wait the opposition and don't press..

Anyway here are scores from last games:

Win 4-1 against Everton

Win 5-0 against Ipswich

Win 2-0 against Burnley

Next game is Stoke.

[thizaum]

I changed Lucas role to BWM, he played better than in AP.

The striker is now set on CF - A with move into channels and it works very well. Sturridge now scores and assists. Sterling scores also more goals from IF position since the change. I might try to buy Cavani or Falcao like LFC try IRL.

But the "probelm" is that games I played since the changes are easy games so I can't really juge.

From what I saw we're close to it, but the defense struggle a bit. Pictures are better than words:

Or things like this:

Ending up like that:

Thanks to god, Mignolet made the game of his life against Everton

And also I don't know how to make the pressing better, sometimes my players just wait the opposition and don't press..

Anyway here are scores from last games:

Win 4-1 against Everton

Win 5-0 against Ipswich

Win 2-0 against Burnley

Next game is Stoke.

That's great news... I also think the CF-a is the best choice for my team. It really depends on what you expect of your striker. I think you need to decide which one of the front 3 will be a creator and which two will be scorers. In our case, we want the striker to be scorers.

But don't forget you need an "offensive presence" coming from the CM strata... this may be a CM-a or AP-a. You'll end up having 2 creators and 2 scores for your front 4.

About the defense, I really wouldn't know what else to tweak. I also use stay on feet, you could try and see what it changes.

I guess the biggest problem for you is the regista. Take a look at this page: http://www.guidetofootballmanager.com/tactics/player-instructions/roles-and-duties/central-midfielders

You don't really have a holding midfielder. When Gerrard "wanders" around to create, you leave a opening inside. And also, the BWM does not do that, even on defend. So, you would need to make one of your CM a CM-d OR change Gerrard to a DLP-d.

And also, I don't really think the cover-stopper duo is the best way to go with 4-3-3. Actually I don't think it makes sense with a defending DM, maybe it does with the regista.

If you go with Regista + CMd, keep the duo and see what happens.

If you go with DLP-d, change the CB to defend and maybe even use offside trap.

[thizaum]

Actually... one more option would be to make Lucas you DM-d.

Then, put Gerrard on DLP-s besides Coutinho on CM-a.

I would play like that...

Gerrard doesn't have to be your Pirlo. He can be you Xavi and Lucas your Busquets.

[thizaum]

One more thing... Try only "push higher up".

This way Lukaku wouldn't be like that.

[deserter]

Since it's been questioned whether this is even possible to pull off in FM, I would start by trying to max out everything towards this goal. If that won't work then it's a lost case. If it does, then you can try to create something sensible while retaining the high press.

[allyc31]

Very fluid because it encourages the team to close down as one unit (which is what i want) and attacking because i want to win the ball high up the pitch.

I also chose short passing because without it i found the players where trying to many through balls.

I also think Defensive Forward is a must for this kind of tactic.

[allyc31]

Since it's been questioned whether this is even possible to pull off in FM, I would start by trying to max out everything towards this goal. If that won't work then it's a lost case. If it does, then you can try to create something sensible while retaining the high press.

It's definitely possible.

Just play a game against Man City; they're relentless.

[alinp]

Thanks for your answer, but I don't want to copy someone tactic. I want to make my own and understand what I change etc. But I still have a question, why do you choose very fluid? And why attacking instead of counter?

Because Counter-Pressing done properly is an in your face tactic, winning the ball high up the pitch and capitalizing on the mayhem created. I don't see you can do this if you're sitting back with a "Counter" mentality.

[alinp]

Oh... and Very Fluid because it needs to be a whole team philosophy to work well.

[CRN711]

Thanks for all your answers.

I decided to keep Gerrard as a Regista but with a few PI: Dribble less, hold position.

Lucas leaves us for PSG, so Henderson takes his seat but he's no more a BWM.. So I set him on BBM.

I bought Cavani and set him as Defensive Forward.

So this is how we set up:

So far so good?

Won 1-0 vs Stoke (Own goal..)

Won 3-0 vs Leicester ( Sterling hat trick from AML )

Lost 1-0 vs Crystal Palace

We lack of attacking dynamism, the defensiv part of the team is perfect.

Maybe I should put AMR on attack duty? Or BBM to a more creative role?

I tried to set Much Higher Tempo but it doesn't change a thing.