Chang's tactic, so easy and help you win all match

[changyouqing]

Many people find 14 difficult to win, I offer an easy way to help you build tactic of you team and win most of the matches.

Here I would make clear some basic concepts before setting the tactic

1. Not all the role and duty can be used with each style

2. In each style, if you set wrong player role and duty, team performance will get disadvantage and lose. Your players perform poorly and make mistake a lot

3. Player’s attributes decide if he can play well with the role and duty you set to him, rahm can play full defender attack very well, but a player from lowest league, play full defender defend is a good choice

Here I list all the duty and role of each position in different style

4.now all you need is set a formation, pick up your 11 players, based on your players attributes to set a style, follow the sheet to set the role and duty

5.you do not need a top level player, all teams in any league can use this theory. You need set right role and duty for your player, as I said, a player in lower league is good to set a simple role&duty and your team suit a more rigid style

The result is simple but the theory is not,I have to say most of the sticky topic here explain a lot but may be a bit far from solution.

I will post my theory latter if I have time

The basic theory SI establish how player attend attack,defend and support, is player's movement during attack and defend.

For ex:a full back defend do only defend duty is because he will not change his position during whole match, but full back support will move to wingback position in attack

It is different with formation movement, all players will move forward in attack, but a support player will move forward a bit more and a attack player will move much more

In higher style, tactic require more players on different position move forward, from balance, it requires forward move back to give support

In fluid style, each player can give support&attack duty or support&defend,and in very fluid, each player give all three duty, which means he most move forward and back during the match.

[fusershift]

What does DS mean?

[Tha Real behanger]

What does DS mean?

I think defender side or something.

What the hell I give it a try haha

[cbcruz]

I'm testing it now with the 5-2-1-2

[RTHerringbone]

This is somewhat overly simplistic

I'll be interested to see the feedback this generates, because frankly, I'll eat a hat, a horse and the Empire State Building if it generates consistent success.

[Marsupian]

This whole thing goes against what a lot of people on this forum are trying to achieve (and SI for that matter). Changing the language from a game language to a football language. There is no mention of any football related concept and I don't see how this spreadsheet has any relation with football. Saying this works if you have the right players is also a large disclaimer, almost anything works if you have good players.

Now if there was an explanation in football terms why these roles are chosen than this topic would be more interesting and might actually lead to some talk about actual football tactics.

Now it's just a random spreadsheet that "wins all matches" which almost belongs in the download forum instead of here.

[RTHerringbone]

Now it's just a random spreadsheet that "wins all matches" which almost belongs in the download forum instead of here.

Agree completely - I'm just keen to see some feedback from people who give it a go, just to test if it holds any water whatsoever - which I hope, expect and believe it does not.

[maztheplaya]

To me it basically says the following:

Rigid = "simple" roles and a focus on defending

Fluid = "complex roles" and a focus on attacking

And a Balance approach with with Stopper roles in defense seems just a reciper for disaster.

[peleJunior]

This is complete nonsense, look at the very rigid roles the OP thinks rigid means defensive and fluid means attacking and has set about making a magic formula based on this false assumption, since the original assumption is false, I am willing to bet all the tea in China the final result will be complete hokum.

[Tha Real behanger]

won a few games with ajax but as soon as the opposition becomes better, I get ripped apart.

[Lord Rowell]

Don't be harsh on the OP, he's trying to help

OK, what the hell, I'll give this a go.

Lets see, next game is away to Olympiakos, R16 UEFA CL.

My current tactic is as follows - 4141 standard fluid - shorter passing, mark tighter (don't always use this) - sometimes use drill crosses

SK(D), both FB(S), both CD(S), DM is a DLP(D), then WM(A), CM(S), CM(A), W(S), DLF(S) . Not many PIs, mainly the WM to cut inside.

So, using this system it would be as follows... changes marked in bold

SK(S), both FB(S), CD(X) and CD©, DLP(S), then WM(S), CM(D) and CM(A), W(S), DLF(A)

@RTH, if we trounce them (drew home leg 1-1), can we have pics of you eating!

I will report back...

[Jambo98]

Awful post, which sums up why so many people have trouble in FM14.

It is a massively complex game, and some of the advice i see given on here is shocking bad. This is one such example i am afraid.

The amount of times i see "Very Rigid = defensive and boring" and "Very Fluid = over attacking and total football" - Utter nonsense. There is a huge amount of bad advice on these forums based on this sort of thing. "you must remove roaming if you move to Fluid" - NO!!! "to hold onto a lead, change to Attack mentality" - NO!!! These are just 2 examples i have seen the last few days

I appreciate the mods here have an amazingly hard job, and i am absolutely NOT an expert myself, but we need to do something to weed out the bad advice which is making things worse for people who already struggle at the game.

Meantime, my view would be never listen to any advice unless the advice includes "why" to do something, rather than just "do this" or "try that"

[RTHerringbone]

@RTH, if we trounce them (drew home leg 1-1), can we have pics of you eating!

I have my knife and fork poised.

[Lord Rowell]

I have my knife and fork poised.

Well just to update you and keep the suspense going.

Olympiakos scored within 2 mins.

Our stopper/cover combination is terrifying me!

My assistant is moaning the gap between midfield and attack is too high (because my DLF is now on attack duty). That said, I take very little notice of assistants in this FM.

They scored in two minutes! :O

But, credit to Rowell's Sunderland side, we battled back and equalised.

It has been exciting. They've had 4 CCCs, we've had 5. As per the first leg, their keeper, Jasper Cillessen has been like a brick wall.

I should add I have a lot of rookies out on the pitch as progression isn't my top priority - ensuring a top 4 finish in the Prem is, and besides I want the young lads to have experience of games like this.

So, onto extra time we go...

[Lord Rowell]

Btw, I used shouts and minor PI changes in the normal way, but no changes to formation, roles, or duties.

One thing I did do was used "exploit the middle" as, with the framework, all my wide players were on (S) duty so I had to boost mentality in the centre to help my lone striker.

Extra time, we had chances, so did they... but we remained deadlocked...

... but thanks to the heroics of my 22 yr old development squad keeper, we won on penalties!

Not entirely convinced about all of the methodology but it wasn't a disaster.

RTH, I grant we didn't win in normal time but seeing as I had a team of kids out and we win overall, I do think at least consumption of the hat is in order ;-)

[RTHerringbone]

I saw the word "trounce" in post #11 - a penalty shootout win does not equate to that in my book, so the Fedora remains intact.

[Marsupian]

Btw, I used shouts and minor PI changes in the normal way, but no changes to formation, roles, or duties.

One thing I did do was used "exploit the middle" as, with the framework, all my wide players were on (S) duty so I had to boost mentality in the centre to help my lone striker.

Extra time, we had chances, so did they... but we remained deadlocked...

... but thanks to the heroics of my 22 yr old development squad keeper, we won on penalties!

Not entirely convinced about all of the methodology but it wasn't a disaster.

RTH, I grant we didn't win in normal time but seeing as I had a team of kids out and we win overall, I do think at least consumption of the hat is in order ;-)

It's one game and it's not like we are saying this method creates bad tactics. Hell the tactic you use isn't even that decisive in game outcomes as long as it's halfway decent.

The problem I (and I presume some other people here) have with this post is that instead of basing your decisions on football logic and discussing the game in football terms you use a random spreadsheet. Now if there was some explanation of the idea behind this spreadsheet and it's relation to a game where teams of 11 kick a ball around than it's something that we could discuss here.

I'm fairly certain I can make a tactic following the "rules" of this spreadsheet and do a really good job. That doesn't mean I think it's a good idea to use a spreadsheet to create a tactic instead of a healthy dose of football logic and tactical insight.

[Lord Rowell]

It's one game and it's not like we are saying this method creates bad tactics. Hell the tactic you use isn't even that decisive in game outcomes as long as it's halfway decent.

The problem I (and I presume some other people here) have with this post is that instead of basing your decisions on football logic and discussing the game in football terms you use a random spreadsheet. Now if there was some explanation of the idea behind this spreadsheet and it's relation to a game where teams of 11 kick a ball around than it's something that we could discuss here.

I'm fairly certain I can make a tactic following the "rules" of this spreadsheet and do a really good job. That doesn't mean I think it's a good idea to use a spreadsheet to create a tactic instead of a healthy dose of football logic and tactical insight.

I'm worried you took my posts a little too seriously ;-)

An explanation from the OP on how he came up with the roles & duties would be a good bonus ball for sure.

I don't think its all that robust, there are flaws in the roles & duties allocated in the spreadsheet.

But hey, Chang has had a go at something and put it here so that makes him braver than most of us.

At the end of the day, not all of us are that into learning deep levels of tactical insight (something btw I think the game in general has lost sight of) and instead like a formula / spreadsheet / guide that we can construct something that works.

After all, WWFAN's 12 step guide isn't really all that different from what Chang has done, he's just written a bit more.

I do think people here are sometimes a little too quick to jump on people's backs and criticise sometimes.

[Lord Rowell]

I saw the word "trounce" in post #11 - a penalty shootout win does not equate to that in my book, so the Fedora remains intact.

Excuse me - 4-2 on penalties, we didn't even have to take the final one! Deffo a penalty trouncing ;-)

[Jambo98]

I'm worried you took my posts a little too seriously ;-)

An explanation from the OP on how he came up with the roles & duties would be a good bonus ball for sure.

I don't think its all that robust, there are flaws in the roles & duties allocated in the spreadsheet.

But hey, Chang has had a go at something and put it here so that makes him braver than most of us.

At the end of the day, not all of us are that into learning deep levels of tactical insight (something btw I think the game in general has lost sight of) and instead like a formula / spreadsheet / guide that we can construct something that works.

After all, WWFAN's 12 step guide isn't really all that different from what Chang has done, he's just written a bit more.

I do think people here are sometimes a little too quick to jump on people's backs and criticise sometimes.

The big problem, as always, is that there is no effort to explain WHY. I love a spreadsheet more than most, but this is just nonsense i am afraid. I mean why, in the name of Bobo Balde, should my wide players always be on attack when i choose very fluid........Its not really a question of views, its just plain wrong i am afraid

I agree with your point that it would be brilliant if there was a simpler way to understand the game, but this just isnt it, and lending credence to it is wrong.

[changyouqing]

What does DS mean?

a DS means defend side exactly,equal defend right and left

[changyouqing]

I give some explanation to your question in my post

[changyouqing]

won a few games with ajax but as soon as the opposition becomes better, I get ripped apart.

If you do follow the sheet, a change of mental is needed when you play against different teams, certainly you should play counter or lower mental when op is stronger

[changyouqing]

Don't be harsh on the OP, he's trying to help

OK, what the hell, I'll give this a go.

Lets see, next game is away to Olympiakos, R16 UEFA CL.

My current tactic is as follows - 4141 standard fluid - shorter passing, mark tighter (don't always use this) - sometimes use drill crosses

SK(D), both FB(S), both CD(S), DM is a DLP(D), then WM(A), CM(S), CM(A), W(S), DLF(S) . Not many PIs, mainly the WM to cut inside.

So, using this system it would be as follows... changes marked in bold

SK(S), both FB(S), CD(X) and CD©, DLP(S), then WM(S), CM(D) and CM(A), W(S), DLF(A)

@RTH, if we trounce them (drew home leg 1-1), can we have pics of you eating!

I will report back...

I made a mistake, you should use w(A), not (S).

[changyouqing]

Awful post, which sums up why so many people have trouble in FM14.

It is a massively complex game, and some of the advice i see given on here is shocking bad. This is one such example i am afraid.

The amount of times i see "Very Rigid = defensive and boring" and "Very Fluid = over attacking and total football" - Utter nonsense. There is a huge amount of bad advice on these forums based on this sort of thing. "you must remove roaming if you move to Fluid" - NO!!! "to hold onto a lead, change to Attack mentality" - NO!!! These are just 2 examples i have seen the last few days

I appreciate the mods here have an amazingly hard job, and i am absolutely NOT an expert myself, but we need to do something to weed out the bad advice which is making things worse for people who already struggle at the game.

Meantime, my view would be never listen to any advice unless the advice includes "why" to do something, rather than just "do this" or "try that"

Added 'why' in my post

[Jambo98]

Added 'why' in my post

I am sorry, and it may be the language barrier, but the explanation still doesnt make sense. It feels like yet another complete mis-understanding of what the fluidity types mean in practice.

[changyouqing]

Btw, I used shouts and minor PI changes in the normal way, but no changes to formation, roles, or duties.

One thing I did do was used "exploit the middle" as, with the framework, all my wide players were on (S) duty so I had to boost mentality in the centre to help my lone striker.

Extra time, we had chances, so did they... but we remained deadlocked...

... but thanks to the heroics of my 22 yr old development squad keeper, we won on penalties!

Not entirely convinced about all of the methodology but it wasn't a disaster.

RTH, I grant we didn't win in normal time but seeing as I had a team of kids out and we win overall, I do think at least consumption of the hat is in order ;-)

I suggest you not use these shouts and pi, I only use move the ball in to area when players shoots too many out the target

[Lord Rowell]

I made a mistake, you should use w(A), not (S).

In that case I think it is really important that you correct the spreadsheet and upload a new one into your OP as soon as possible

[changyouqing]

I am sorry, and it may be the language barrier, but the explanation still doesnt make sense. It feels like yet another complete mis-understanding of what the fluidity types mean in practice.

i'll give more detail later to make it easier to understand

[Lord Rowell]

I suggest you not use these shouts and pi, I only use move the ball in to area when players shoots too many out the target

To give you feedback on your theory as you initially presented, I had virtually no forward movement from my midfield, so adapted in order to give myself a chance in the game.

As you corrected your mistake re. the duties of the wide players now I can see why the TI might not be necessary.

I really don't think you can advise people never to use PIs though, let me give you an example of where they are essential.

Meet my veteran fullback - Leighton Baines. He's got older since I took that screenshot.

I was planning on letting him sink into the reserves gracefully, but two bad injuries to my first choice full-back mean I have to play him.

At his peak he was a marauding wing back. Now, he can't dribble, he can't run, he can barely move. But he still has good mental & defensive attributes.

If I just play him as a FB(S) he gets into all kinds of trouble. He tries to beat people, then either loses the ball or gets driven back and gives it away. He runs up the pitch and gets caught out of position. He chases after shadows because everyone is too fast for him

But if I give him the following instructions

-hold position

-dribble less

-more direct passes

-close down less

It reduces the physical demands on him and gives him a way of playing that makes the ball do the work, while making the most of his defensive and mental attributes, and he can still put in a solid performance for me even against very good opposition.

To get back to the point, you can't say to people never to use PIs because sometimes you just have to.

[jpcote09]

I don't want to bash on this thread but I don't see the value in it.

Okay, I am going to make a spreadsheet with every possible role and duty in every box and tell everyone that it wins them every game, provided they have good players with the right attributes and the willingness to change mentality depending on opposition. And I won't explain the thinking behind it. And people will try it, and for some it will work, and for some it won't. Am I a genius?

[Lord Rowell]

I don't want to bash on this thread but I don't see the value in it.

Okay, I am going to make a spreadsheet with every possible role and duty in every box and tell everyone that it wins them every game, provided they have good players with the right attributes and the willingness to change mentality depending on opposition. And I won't explain the thinking behind it. And people will try it, and for some it will work, and for some it won't. Am I a genius?

How about just being nice to someone who has put a lot of effort into this and summed up the courage to post here and start their own thread, even though English clearly isn't their first language?

I'm guessing the guy is somewhere from East Asia. So, when you've posted on an FM board that serves the Mandarin or Cantonese-speaking community with a contribution, in Mandarin or Cantonese of course, you might earn the right to be critical of others.

[jpcote09]

Sorry if my comment caused any offence. Thanks to chang for putting this scheme together and posting it on the forums.

I would be happy to discuss the tactical ideas behind all this though. In another language if needed, though the OP's english seems decent to me. Otherwise, this thread belongs to the tactics downloads subforum, since this is such a 'magic formula' that can't be tweaked with PIs or too many TIs.

EDIT : English is not my first language either, btw. Language familiarity has nothing to do with content IMO

[changyouqing]

How about just being nice to someone who has put a lot of effort into this and summed up the courage to post here and start their own thread, even though English clearly isn't their first language?

I'm guessing the guy is somewhere from East Asia. So, when you've posted on an FM board that serves the Mandarin or Cantonese-speaking community with a contribution, in Mandarin or Cantonese of course, you might earn the right to be critical of others.

thank you for your kindness, i'd rather like talk more about the tactic than other things

as i said, latter i will explain the theory with detail. and i can understand jpcote09's doubt.

'win all the match' sounds too aggressive, right?

[Jambo98]

How about just being nice to someone who has put a lot of effort into this and summed up the courage to post here and start their own thread, even though English clearly isn't their first language?

I'm guessing the guy is somewhere from East Asia. So, when you've posted on an FM board that serves the Mandarin or Cantonese-speaking community with a contribution, in Mandarin or Cantonese of course, you might earn the right to be critical of others.

Im sorry but thats nonsense. IT was nothing to do with where anyone is from.

This is a forum for tactical advice. The OP is giving advice, which in the opinion of most "experts" is just plain wrong. Its our responsibility as forum contributors to try and ensure that whilst there is healthy debate, mis-leading advice is not posted.

We have engaged the OP back with feedback on where the issues are (including your own feedback around PI), which is the right way to do it. Its not about being critical of someone starting a thread, its about constructive criticism of the content of said thread.

[eusebio1]

Im sorry but thats nonsense. IT was nothing to do with where anyone is from.

This is a forum for tactical advice. The OP is giving advice, which in the opinion of most "experts" is just plain wrong. Its our responsibility as forum contributors to try and ensure that whilst there is healthy debate, mis-leading advice is not posted.

We have engaged the OP back with feedback on where the issues are (including your own feedback around PI), which is the right way to do it. Its not about being critical of someone starting a thread, its about constructive criticism of the content of said thread.

This. I think jpcote09's thread is a good example for how much "experts" value commitment from relative 'newcomers' to the forums.

[keithfc]

looking foward to see the mod to eat a hat, a horse and the Empire State Building.

no respect

impolite

no PR trainning from SI

[RTHerringbone]

looking foward to see the mod to eat a hat, a horse and the Empire State Building.

no respect

impolite

no PR trainning from SI

Seeing as there wasn't a trouncing, you'll have to wait a bit

[Guest]

looking foward to see the mod to eat a hat, a horse and the Empire State Building.

no respect

impolite

no PR trainning from SI

All he said was he doubted it would achieve consistent success which is a very real prospect for anyone who has taken a serious look at the OP. Please get some perspective.

[ajsr1982]

I must admit, the claim of guaranteed success is a bold one, given the lack of detail and the absence of examples within the OP.

That said, I think there is some value to be had. What I think the OP is getting at is that the level of fluidity you choose to play should to some extent define the roles and duties you set for your players. For example, attacking full backs are slightly incongruous to a very rigid system as they're only expected to be involved in one phase of play, but a full back with a defend duty doesn't compliment a very fluid system as they're expected to support attacks in such a system.

I'm not sure I agree with all of the entries into the boxes in the OP, but that's based on my opinion rather than a wealth of success in FM14 to fall back on.

[Torskus77]

looking foward to see the mod to eat a hat, a horse and the Empire State Building.

no respect

impolite

no PR trainning from SI

Blimey, who rattled your cage ? I thought it was a light hearted post in the first place. I find RTH to be one of the most polite posters on here, let alone mods. I think people forget they give up their time to sort out things on the forum for all of our benefit.

[ashlfcowen]

Blimey, who rattled your cage ? I thought it was a light hearted post in the first place. I find RTH to be one of the most polite posters on here, let alone mods. I think people forget they give up their time to sort out things on the forum for all of our benefit.

Agreed. I'd find it incredibly hard to respect posts like that, let alone reply in a polite manner like RTH did. Shows incredible PR skills, if you ask me.

[Miniesta]

Well, some of the replies here have just ensured that myself, as a complete tactical simpleton, will never dare attempt to express my ill thought out tactical ideas in public.

[Torskus77]

Why? 99% of posters are helpful and polite, all of the mods, ex mods are more than helpful. No need to be so precious really, no one knows who you really are, you are just a name on a screen. Post away, I assure you, you will get more help than you get negative posts.

[Jenesis33]

So mod / expereinced player cant say some advices are bad?

I really don't get this.. and some1 want to bring this whole lanuange thing into this topic is just competely illogical.

One guy posted one idea which suppose to win "ALL" match..

And we have a few experienced players saying this will not work .. which anyone with some knowledge in this game knew the OP plan will no way work....

It's like someone walks up to me in the street and say i will give you one notebook which has all the solution you need for your life.

and I laugh and say no mate .. this is impossible and im not buying it.

What's wrong with that?

If you claim to have a super tatics which solve every single match.. (AKA winning all games)

Then you better be bloody good!!!

[sosasoser]

Well, some of the replies here have just ensured that myself, as a complete tactical simpleton, will never dare attempt to express my ill thought out tactical ideas in public.

As a complete tactical simpleton, which would you rather have?

1) Coming here looking for ideas and information about what to do and having experienced players say what is good or bad?

2) Coming here looking for ideas and information and having no basis on which to separate the good and bad?

Frankly, the OP's assertions are laughable on their face. If anything, people have been too polite in dismissing them.

[Marsupian]

Well, some of the replies here have just ensured that myself, as a complete tactical simpleton, will never dare attempt to express my ill thought out tactical ideas in public.

The only criticism this guy got was that the post didn't contain any tactical ideas. Only a spreadsheet with no explanation to how it relates to football. There was no name calling or rudeness. Just criticism (constructive as well, the best kind). If you can't criticize a post because it might hurt someones feelings than what is the point of this place?

The only useful response you can get as a tactical simpleton is criticism, all the rest is useless. If you can't handle criticism maybe you should indeed not post your ideas in a public forum.

[RTHerringbone]

Well, some of the replies here have just ensured that myself, as a complete tactical simpleton, will never dare attempt to express my ill thought out tactical ideas in public.

Please don't be deterred. The reason I and others were direct with the opening poster here was that the OP made a claim which was bold and unsubstantiated. Things like that are no use to new users like yourself, as unless you know why you are doing something, you won't learn how to play the game.

If you look through recent threads created by users who posted their set ups and asked for help, you'll see a quite different tone throughout.

[Miniesta]

The only criticism this guy got was that the post didn't contain any tactical ideas. Only a spreadsheet with no explanation to how it relates to football. There was no name calling or rudeness. Just criticism (constructive as well, the best kind). If you can't criticize a post because it might hurt someones feelings than what is the point of this place?

The only useful response you can get as a tactical simpleton is criticism, all the rest is useless. If you can't handle criticism maybe you should indeed not post your ideas in a public forum.

I won't.

[changyouqing]

I didn't post the theory here doesn't mean i didn't make effect on it. and i didn't write idea doesn't mean my result has no reason

i just write a 'win all match' to get a high click on my topic or replies?

come on ! here is not a Twritter and you guys are easy to be fooled as a child?

why you just have a try on my methods then come back to discuss about it

a topic without no long and huge thesis in it, you don't buy it, that's ok

but you just give a easy judge on my work without proof, i didn't see you are different from what you blame