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'The Return of Zemanlandia'


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Well hello there guys

As a relative novice in regards to FM I was searching through the internet looking through different aproaches to the game and then stumbled across what I saw as the Holy Grail of football. Zdeněk Zeman. Myself not being a defensive football fan ( I like to feel that my virtual fans on football manager get their money's worth through entertaining football) I thought what the hell and gave myself a challenege to attempt to recreate pure attacking football. I chose AC Milan however even after reading the fantastic help threads on here and guides regarding the creation of tactics I found myself still utterly out of my depth, despite this I had a go at making a tactic which turned out to be utterly useless and which rather didnt provide the entertaining football which I was looking for that relied so heavily on direct attack interplay and a complete absence of defensive positoning. For me Zeman represents how I would like me teams to play on FM however I realise It is one thing saying it and another implementing it. What I am looking for is guidance the cooperation of the great tactictians that lurk in these forums *cough Cleon THOG, RTHerringbone, Llama, Bambooey and whoever else I have forgotten but or no less just as good* (Yeah I am being an ass kisser) in order to develop which I hope will be a pure attacking idealistic philosophy ( philopshy is the 'in' thing in football at the moment' based on the Zeman way of relentless pressing, offside trap, first touch passing and an attempt at getting wingers/IF's to move into channels without ruining the striker. For all you people here area a few articles on the great man regarding his time and Roma his personality and tactics in general.

http://www.thefalsenine.co.uk/2012/12/10/the-return-of-zemanlandia/

http://www.football-italia.net/19453/returning-zemanlandia

http://thinkfootball.co.uk/archives/8020

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/09/03/inter-1-3-roma-zeman-collects-the-first-win-of-his-second-spell-at-roma/

Basically Zeman lines his teams up in a 4-3-3 which press very very high, have wingbacks bombing forward the wingers move inside and come into channels almost acting as 3 forwards (In FM this would be very difficult no idea whether to have to have a to IFA's with a CF in the middle or 2 AF's each side of the CF with move into channels added) the midfield trio would involve a deeper playmaker either a regista and above him either 2 CMA or BBM however I cannot sucesffuly create the midfield or frontline.And defense, erm yeah who cares centrebacks are so Old school just stick to CD's and either have CWBA's or WBA's. It is one thing saying this but another actually impementing it which I am finding so hard to acheive wether it because of match engine restrains to totally inadaquecies reagrding the game or both. Anyway I present to you my attempt at Zemanlandia which requires a HUGE amount of work. ( for some reason cant upload the file via JPG so external links will have to do sorry)

TI

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PI's

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I chose attacking because I want a higher tempo quicker more incisive game with pressing and greater forward runs and I chose very fluid as all of the team should be focused on attacking aswell as the sligh increase in pressing that results from very fluid, furthermoreafter reading the brilliant thread by JPCOTE regarding the TC i though it suited my system the best, in regards to my midfield I am completely lost reagarding the Central midfielders but think a regista or DLP-D is the best choice for the deeper of the trio. my main issue ir my front line and the link up play regarding the 3 of them and how to get my wingers into more attacking positon. In a sense I want to achieve complete attacking football I could not care less about defense and how many goals I concede as long as I score more how cares and its entertaining.

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I apologise in advance for some typo's there and the links for some reason it refuses to let me upload photos to the post rather I am forced to link them. Yeah the presentation is poor sorry about that guys

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Having edited the OP, I've now looked at the content!

It is "bold" (!)

If you have a look at the Twelve Step Guide (stickied near the top of the forum), and then reflect on your set up, does it make you reconsider anything?

My concise view is that you are far, far, far too attacking, you have an imbalanced mix of duties, and a lack of a true holding player in midfield.

Your Fluidity doesn't correlate with the Roles selected, and it's just too adventurous. You'd get battered.

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After looking at the 12 steps in closer detail can see my striker possibly getting kind of isolated and because of my team playing high tempo and attacking play with direct I get the feeling ym team would almost rush the play just make stupid descions, I feel a DLPD would possibly be better or even an anchor man or simple Defesive mid just to hodl things better whilst my two central midfielders do their own thing perhaps?

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Having tweaked the tactic I decieded to put my strategy on control in order to tighten things up and not needlessly loose the ball. I also moved my Regista to a DLP-D in order to make him more of a holding playing dictating play from the back, I moved the WB on the left to a complete wingback and my IF on that side to a support role in order for the wing back to overlap him and hopefully cut it back to the IF in the box, however I still have this irrational fear that changing my striker to a Support role would almost rob him of his goal scoring ability I have changed him to a DLF-A but would consider a CF-S to make him more rounded.

I have also moved up to a higher tempo and one postive thing I am seeing is as soon as we win the wall back we are immediately looking to attack ( the ethos of Zeman) and do a few good quick passes hwoever this usually fizzles out or sometimes leads to a good chance. However I am still really really struggling with getting my Wingbacks to bomb up the pitch and act amost as wingers to overload the opposition in attack, I simply lack the knowledge of wether to change my wingers to Inside forwards both on support with sit narrower and roaming, will encourage my wingbacks forward as well as giving my IF's more in both goalscoring potential and movement.

Furthermore my midfield paring beyong the DLP could also use tweaking and I was wondering wether having wto BBM's with get further froward and more risky passes would be better than a CM-A BBM combination. All in all I feel out of my depth and all I want to do is attack attack and attack but not to such a stupid degree as above but still retain the whole Zemanesque ethos of attacking football. Here are a few SS of my last game which I watched, even thougha large amount of forward passes are intercepted as shown, the fact these are being attempted gives me a lot of encouragement, however my wing backs still refuse to bomb forward as I would like in order to create the overload on the wings and confuse the AI defense. Furthermore there doesnt seem to a be a huge amount of movement from the players and my shots seem to be coming from the front rather than from all areas which is concerning for me. Any further advice would be great as I really want to make this work and at the moment I feel almost out of my depth and cant really get what I want. Anyway screenshots are below feel free to critque what I am doing as I really need the advice and guidance on this one

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Would really appreciate your help on this guys as your knoweldge of the game itself far far far surpasses mine.

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It's better, but still littered with potential issues.

Control is still a fairly aggressive Strategy - why are you using a Much Higher Defensive Line? Forget the whole Zeman piece for a while - watch the matches and see how your line is operating. You need balance.

With the high line that comes with Control, is using the Offside Trap necessary? I know you want to echo the style of Zeman, but just watch what this does to your defensive shape.

Control also has a high tempo. Why increase it more? Do you notice a difference between Control without that TI, and Control with it? You have to be sure why you are applying each TI, and what it influences.

Why Hassle Opponents still? You still have a high line, that still means you press more, so what do you think this adds?

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If its a true Zeman tactic then it will be 'imbalanced' tactically, but that's one of the reasons for its success (and failures) in real life.

Remember you aren't allowed to go more defensive if you are winning, throwing away a 3-0 half time lead is 'normal' :p

But seriously, he's one of the great charachters in football, and I'm glad he's been given another chance in serie a.

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Totally agree now hes back In Calagari I think I really hope he does well as in my eyes was never given a chance at the top level, still struggling with the tactic despite the advice just not creating enough I want goal after gaol after goal defense doesnt concern me at all.

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If you want to go all out I would just set up like this:

CWB - CD - CD - CWB
       DLP(d)
     BBM - BBM
IF(a)          IF(a)
       CF(s)

Attack, rigid

If you have the balls swap one of the BBM's for a CM(a) and the DLP for a regista. Also make sure your defensive line is high enough to deny space for the opponent to play around you but deep enough to give you space to attack into (higher line is probably defensively more solid, deeper line gives more space on the pitch to work with). Also hassle opponents if they get too much time on the ball which allows them to play that accurate long pass behind your defensive line.

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After another day of failure, I have been looking at the recent threads regarding Barcalona and their pressing aswell as the gegenpressing thread and have decieded the best way to implement the Zemen style would almost be using the Barcalona template as a base and building a Zemanesque tactic onto it if you agree? Furthermore, if any of the more advanced tactians would like to get involved in makign a Zeman like tactic go for it because i feel totally out of my depth.

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From what I saw of Roma they played like

Gk

Wb a

Cd d

Cd d

Wba

Dlp d

B2b

CM a

If a

If a

Cf s

Attacking fluid

More Direct

Pass into space

Push Higher Up

Offside Trap

Hassle Opponents

Zeman was so extreme in his attacking that maybe you could even try overload.

I wouldn't expect to win much though. Zeman has barely won anything and took plenty of spankings. It's hard to win things being as attacking and one dimensional as his teams are.

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Pete,

You beat me to posting what I was going to call "The Zeman Project." In every version of FM that I can remember I've always been drawn to trying to recreate his approach to the game, not only in his tactics, but also in training and player acquisition.

So here's my take, for what its worth.

I’ve spent countless hours over the years reviewing videotapes (yes I still have some VHS tapes) and online videos. I would suggest that you avail yourself of these resources and watch at least 3 full matches from Zeman’s various stops. It can be tedious, but you learn a great deal. Be sure to sweat the details.

Yes, Zeman plays a 4-3-3 or 4-1-2-2-1 if you will, as not only his base, but as his sole formation. Contrary to popular belief though, there actually are variations within his application of his system most specifically in the roles within it. The way that he used Totti during his second and latest stint at Roma being the most obvious, but there are others. He does see a need to adapt to the players that he has at his disposal.

Similarly, I think that there are some misconceptions regarding how his teams press and how Zeman’s teams defend. In truth Zeman does care about defense and his teams at Lazio were very tough to break down. For example in his first year there he took a team that had a GF/GA against of 54/40 before he arrived and transformed them into one that was 69/34 (by far the best differential in Serie A that year) while moving them from 4th to 2nd and qualifying for the UEFA Cup. In his second year there the GF/GA ration was still a very respectable 66/38 and in his third it was 55/37.

At Roma he made similar defensive improvements in his first year taking them from 46/47 and 12th in Serie A to 67/42 and 4th (UEFA Cup Qualification). In 1998-99 there was a drop off, but I think much of this was due to the controversy which surrounded his statements regarding Juventus. Still they finished 5th and once again got into the UEFA Cup.

My point here is that the Zeman’s teams defend in a much more nuanced manner than simply pressing all over the pitch while using a mindless offside trap. They in fact try to press into zones, specifically on the edge such that they will allow the opposition to start down the flank and then either trap them there or force them inside. His teams seem to work very hard to eliminate crosses and to funnel everything centrally.

The effectiveness of a Zeman team’s defending revolves very much around the quality of his Regista. Marcolin and I think even more so Di Biagio epitomized what he desired in that position.

So how do we try to transfer Zeman’s ideas to FM. As with most real world tactics, the ME doesn’t allow for this to be totally replicated. Being Zeman, you will have one and only one tactic and will vary it in a nuanced way via team instructions.

Obviously you begin with a 4-3-3/4-1-2-2-1.

Mentality: Control

Fluidity: Rigid

Why Control instead of Attack? As stated, I think that Zeman’s teams press use a slightly lower block than the attack setting provides. Control is still an aggressive metality, especially with 4 players in attacking roles (see below).

As I will outline in a moment, Zeman uses quite a few specialized roles, hence based upon the guidance provided by Hand of God, which has never failed me, btw, Rigid becomes the appropriate setting. I’ve also found that Rigid is the key to the quick transitions which Zeman wants. When I eliminate the specialists and went to Fluid, my transitions are slower and tended to be disjointed.

For team instructions I would start with the following:

Pass Into Space (I am open to discussion on this one)

Play Out Of Defense (Zeman is very much against giving the ball up in you own end)

Drill Crosses (this encourages players to be in the attacking 3rd before crossing)

Exploit The Middle (the following three all work together)

Look For The Overlap (attacking wingbacks are a key to Zeman’s method)

Play Narrower (in order to create room its important to have the IF’s off of the touchline)

Hassle Opponents (we can discuss this; I think that its critical)

Stay on Feet (Zeman’s teams don’t dive in much; he doesn’t like silly fouls)

Use Mark Tighter (Zeman’s teams give the opposition no space)

Use Offside Trap (key in combination with tight marking and maybe hassle opponents)

Be More Expressive (counteracts some of the problems caused by “Rigid” fluidity)

Higher Tempo (Zeman’s teams play very quickly in attack)

In watching Zeman’s sides at Pescara and Roma (parte due), team instructions changed according to the match situation. I think that this is more the case now than in the past. If behind, the defensive line would advance and the tempo might be increased. If ahead, they’d drop “higher tempo” and maybe “pass into space” and add “pass shorter”. His teams don’t stop attacking, they just drop the intensity now. When he was at Lazio, Roma (parte uno) and Lecce, the attack never let up and I think that was the reason for some of the heavy defeats.

As for player roles and instructions, I think there’s room for flexibility with the aforementioned Totti situation being an example, but here are the base settings which I would use.

SK – d (pass shorter, distribute to defenders)

CWB ® – a (aim for near post, close down more, mark tighter)

DC – d (mark tighter, ease off of tackle)

DC – d (mark tighter, ease off of tackle)

CWB (l) – a (aim for near post, close down more, mark tighter)

Reg – s (mark tighter, ease off of tackle)

B2B ® – s (close down more, tighter marking)

B2B (l) – s (close down more, tighter marking)

IF ® – a (dribble more, get further forward, shot less often, cross to near post)

CF – s (move into channels, shoot less often)

IF (l) – a (dribble more, get further forward, shot less often, cross to near post)

If a player has a certain strength, its clear to me that Zeman adjusts the instructions if not the roles themselves. For example, at Roma (parte uno), Di Francesco and Tommasi were not a “matched pair” and played very differently from one another. The same is true I think for Dalla Bona and Giacomazzi at when Zeman was at Lecce. Zeman’s Registas plays the role somewhat differently based upon their strengths. At Pescara in 2011-12, Veratti and Togni are very different, but both spent time in this important role. The movement patterns of the center forward also change a bit, but aside from Immobile, they don’t usually chase too many balls into the corners and some drop quite deep.

In terms of training, the pre-season obviously focuses on fitness and on very high intensity levels. Once into the season, I would make it balanced and keep the intensity high or maybe even very high. If someone complains, bench him. If he complains again, sell him. Match preparation should be on “attacking movement” or maybe “tactics.” Oh and all set-piece marking should be zonal, with no one on the far post on corners.

When selecting a team to manage, I wouldn’t choose AC Milan. They’re way too stayed to ever employ a free spirit like Zeman and the players are old prima donas. The perfect club at which to try to create your own Zemanlandia? Cagliari! They have very promising young players and an ambitious owner who sounds a bit eccentric. Also, be sure to send your scouts out and find promising young talent and play them often.

OK, I’ve gone of far too long. I hope that this helps.

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Well I am really really impressed with your post, you seem to be far more in the know about Zeman than myself. I havent been on for a few days been kind of busy but I really like your ideas as generally mine have failed to live up to the standard that I was looking for. Feel free to make another thread as to be honest you seme much more capable at devising a sucessful tactic based on his ideas than me, altough I would be willing to help in anyway a can. I also think it would be good to get some of the more 'classic' members of the forums, those with indepth knoweldge to help create the tactic/mindset as I feel it would take a large degree of undertstanding of the ME itself to actually get something almost Zemanesque in the game. Have you tried this tactic yourself? If so how is it working? And more importanly is it attractive to watch in game and still score plently of goals whilst conceding at the back?(I know attractive is subjective in terms of football)

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Pete,

I think that we can stick to you original post. Why clutter the board.

I have gotten some good results playing as I have outlined. I won MLS with Vancouver (2013 roster) alternating between a Control 4-3-3 that looked like this and a Counter 4-3-3 that I used on occasion. Remeber that weather and altitude (Colorado + Salt Lake) play a factor in MLS, especially in the Western Division. I've also spent the weekend fiddling with what I outlined for you and the results were quite good. One really good goal saw the right centerback intercept a pass just inside of our half, and play a 15 pass to the center forward who had dropped deep. He turned an found the rightback charging forward (he was blatantly offsides but the assistant was caught out of position due to the speed of play). The rightback took two touches and drove a cross into the path of the left forward to drive past the helpless 'keeper. To my mind pretty Zemanesque.

The keys are the quick transitions. Zeman's team score lots of goals because they are adept at running onto the ball which has been shown to be the most like way to score. As long as you can make those happen, I think that you're on the right track.

As with Zeman, all of my teams play 4-3-3, both in the virtual FM world and when I was coaching. I agree with him that this is the best way to cover the pitch and create multiple passing options.

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Ive been trying out your tactic as provided but one of the problems tends to lie with the IF and the CWB generally they tend to stand in the same positon and almost get in each others way I have no idea how to make the IFs act more like actual 2nd and 3rd strikers in that sense, furthermore I am struggling in regards to pressing as generally it tends to be fairly insuffiencent as I generally dont win the wall back. No this could be my fault or simple bad luck by the way your tactic plays spome great stuff I just think getting Zemanesque football into FM is so difficult without large amounts of knowledge of the ME. In regards to how Zeman plays how do you feel about using opposition intructions for the front 3 so they close down a little better and perhaps having play wider turned on but exploit the middle in order to give the midfield a little more space to move around and create chances for others.

Just an idea would really like to kickstart this thread and get a MAJOR discussion regarding 'Zemenlandia' in the FMME and how it could be implemented more effectively to resemble something as close as possible to that in real life despite the limitations of the ME.

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I've had some of the same problems with the IF and CWB fighting for space on the outside. The issue is that the ME doesn't replicate what happens irl; if you tell them to sit narrower they simply don't, so no 2nd and 3rd strikers which is what we are looking for. I've tried the trick of playing opposite footed players in these spots and that doesn't really work either.

After reading your post, I switched some things around. I went back to fluid and gave a team instruction of "be more disciplined." This seemed to work far better as the movement between the lines was freer. I still had some issues with my players running into each other mindlessly and I think that this is another ME issue.

I think that I may be giving too many team instructions. I took off and "play out of defense" and told my centerbacks to pass shorter and I think that this worked better. I also removed "exploit the middle" which was limiting my attack way too much. I left "play narrower" and look for the overlap" both of which pushed my IF's off of the touchline as much as the ME allows along with their "play narrower" instruction. One of my goals was pretty classic. Right mid to CF (already facing the goal) who takes a touch and sends a pass to the left IF who's gotten between the outside back and centerback, the outside back makes a desperation tackle but knocks the ball directly to my right IF who drives it past the 'keeper.

I also dropped the "hassle opponents" team instruction. It seemed redundant because most of the players were already set to "close down more" and "mark tighter."

As for opposition instructions I want to funnel the opposition to the middle so the right sided players are played to their left foot and vice versa. It seems to work. I've found that my front 3 do close down dawdling defenders regularly and create multiple turnovers per match.

Feel free to start a Zeman thread in the FMME. Obviously I'm ore than willing to contribute.

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Thinking of experimenting with a pure front 3 in the sense of 3 striker for Example I would keep your setting in regards to mentality ect you seem much more knowledgeable than me regarding that,

AF-CFS-AF and perhaps changing the CWB to WBA would also improve the wideplay, I still think perhaps playing wider and exploit the middle would work very well as it gives space in the middle for the midfield to attack and put balls though, however I am not sure how the AF's would perfom in a 3 man attack I know they do have a mild tendency to drift out wide which would give us a little more width but we sort of want them acting more like a role inbetween AF-IF rather than purely one or the other.

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I've experimented with a 3 striker formation. It works very well, which I consider to be completely unrealistic, but it doesn't look much like the Zeman method. IRL in his system the outside forwards do drop back and generally wide. Once again, Roma with Totti in 2012-13 is the exception as I think that he was an AP (s) and it is impossible to recreate his movement.

I was able to play a couple of matches last night and for me at least, its getting closer. I've reduced my team instructions to the following:

Pass into Space

Drill Crosses

Look for the Overlap

Play Narrower

Use Tighter Marking

Stay on Feet

Use Offside Trap

Push up Higher

Use Higher Tempo

Be More Expressive

The positions and roles are now are follows:

Sk - d

WB ® - a

CB - st

CD -st

WB (l) - a

Reg - s

CM - s

CM - s

IF ® - a

F9 - s

IF - a

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Ahh I can see your logic with the false 9 as generally with my experience they do actually pull the IF inside a little more? how is the false 9 playing in relation to scoring goals is he still chipping with goals and more importantly is it nice football ;) . Ive been experiementing with two Shadow Strikers which work well for pressing but arent very Zeman like in their application. How are the midfield performing still making little passing triangles up the pitch?

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I think that the F9 does seem to pull the IF's more toward the center.

Dropping "Exploit the Middle" has dramatically improved the WB-CM-IF passing. It also gets the WB's more involved for obvious reasons.

Remember, Zeman adapts to his players strengths to some degree. I think that using player instructions is a vital to how a side interacts as are the team instructions.

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Ive set up the CM-s to get further forward and close down more seems to be making a difference up top in terms of closing down and certainly the F9 does make that sort of an impact, however what I am stuggling with is simply we are not scoring THAT many goals really and generally we are keeping decent clean sheets. I know this is 'good' but I was thinking we need a more Zeman style approach in regards to our attacking play regardless of how the defence operates. What do you think?

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I played three matches and got spanked in all of them. To be clear, what I do with a tactic is play it over and over again against a challenging opponent.

My experience with the lack of scoring was similar to yours. In fact in 2 of the 3 matches neither team got more than 10 shots off in the entire match. In the other match I was outshot 19-8.

Clearly some changes were in order. I just played another match and changed the mentality to attacking. This worked better and I won 3-1 and outshot my opponent 19-11. I kept all of the team instructions the same and re-added "Hassle Opponents." I also changed to "Be More Disciplined." I have no idea what I was thinking with the "Be More Expressive." That was clearly wrong.

In the latest match, I dominated the first half even though it was tied 1-1 (my opponent had actually scored first on a shot from 20+m out). My shots on target also was better (11).

What I have noted is that the virtual manager will change formations during the match and you need to be very much aware of this. My opponent switches to a 4-4-2 from a 4-2-3-1 whenever his team is behind and the crosses start coming in because the outside mids are no longer being closed down to their inside foot. At this point I also take off the "Look For The Overlap" which tightens up my defense a bit even though the WB's still get forward and I add "Exploit The Middle" and "Pass Shorter."

Hope that this helps. I'll play another match tonight if time allows.

-OS

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I am even thinking of cotemplating wether it is even possible to implement Zemens style of play into the current FM match even. I have ever been experimenting with the overload mentality but at a lower tempo and it doesnt seem to be working as things seem more forced than usual I feel that with the high pressure in the 4-3-3 it is difficult to create as many chances and I personally think it is easier to score lots of goals playing a more counter attacking mentality but I dont want to give up creating a Zemenesque tactic

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Pete,

I think that its a given that the ME cannot precisely produce real world tactics. Given the complexity of what it is, it can be close or at least closer if we work at it though. As with VHS tapes, I'm old enough to remember Championship Manager and having to read nothing but text to figure out what was going on.

I've fiddled around with the tactic too since my last post and have come to a some conclusions.

First, that I was reasonably close with one of my existing tactics and that I need to make small changes and not try to change too much.

Second, that the mentality needs to be attacking and adjustments should be made via team and player instructions, both prior too and during the match (although less so during).

Third, that I'm still not sure if a more disciplined fluid tactic or a more expressive rigid one is the best representation. I lean toward the latter.

As for chances created, I can consistently create 15+ per match, but the conversion rate is erratic. This could well be on my front 3, however.

Getting fast transitions is really the key to scoring goals, both irl and in FM. How to achieve that is a pretty regular discussion on these boards.

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I totally agree I have been busy reading through the forums on other posts and I have found from what I have played that Hassle opponents for me personally is more 'hassle' than its worth I fidn that the PI close down more is more effective at maintaining a shape rather than just erratically pressing. From this I find its easier to have better/more sucessful transitions than the more erratic 'hassle opponents' . I also agree that attacking is the way to go as control is just not attacking in my opinion and for me anyway tends to be less attacking and more possesion esque. And how is your tactic going ?

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I've played 3 matches (all with the same opponent) today. I didn't watch the full match, I think that extended give me a very full picture of what's going right and what is not.

In the first match I played attacking/rigid (4 specialist roles) with a more expressive team instruction. It was a 1-1 draw, I outshot them 10-6 at halftime and had 54% of possession. We were under the cosh in the second half finishing with a 16-15 shots deficit and only having 48% possession (not that possession matters to Zeman). I did like our shooting angles/placement and we were on frame half of the time.

In the second match my team played attacking/fluid (2 specialist roles) with a more disciplined team instruction. It was drawn at halftime 1-1 (same as the previous match), but I had only gotten 6 shots off to their 5. The second half was a nightmare. We didn't get off a single shot and one of their wingers toasted both of my outside backs for goals (1 right and one left). This was clearly a really bad idea. What I did like was that we had some fast counters even though they didn't get us anything.

In the third match I went with attacking/fluid (2 specialists) and no team instruction about expressiveness. IMPLOSION! We scored first and then the opposition tore my team a new one. It was 3-1 at half, we had been outshot 12-1 and had 43% possession. I quit because I couldn't take anymore. There was nothing the least bit good about this.

I've tended toward rigid systems in the past and this may confirm why. I'm going to give it another go or two tonight and see if attacking/rigid with higher expression levels can be workable. I do have to figure out how to keep the opponent from having me pressurized in the 2nd half.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Any sucess Oakland Stomper recently? been busy sorting out going back to Uni and been on holiday so not had much chance to pop on Fm although I am seriously doubting wether this project can be actually sucessful. Personally my knoweldge of the match engine is lacking and my attemps at Zemenesque pressing have pretty much failed. Anyway, anyone else fancy lending a hand with this tactic ? :)

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just to note Cagliari are now playing in Serie A which is Zemans first game back in Serie A so will be watching in order to see if I can sort out a tactic from the match ( should have goals its Zeman) you can find the link online if you want but hopefully watching this game should give me some idea on how to implement his style into FM

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Bare in mind this interpreation could be totally wrong its just how I feel the game has gone. I am no football coach and I am only 19 so please bare in mind that I am a complete novice when it comes to this and would be open to criticism this by no means is cast in Iron and in fact I would actually like more input from the rest of the community well Oakland Stomper for the moment but this is how I feel it would be good to set up the tactic in FM.

From the First Half I have seen Zemen Line up in a 4-3-3 with his usual mantra. The wingbacks have been very very agressive in terms of pressing (PI close down more) and getting up the pitch, the middle 3 typically are set up with the front 2 midfielders linking play too the forwards and making through balls aswell as getting into the box and one midfielder holding slightly more however rather than A regista in FM I feel a DLP-S would be better for this role (maybe a flat midfield 3 as the DLP will naturally stay back so that the D-line isnt deeper than needed). The front 3 certainly have 2 IF-A and I cant pinpoint the middle one he isnt really dropping deep and at one point tried to break the offside trap so maybe a AF-A or a CF-A I really dont think a Poacher would be suitable. The wingbacks almost certainly would be attacking even CWB-A the front 2 midfielders I cant pinpoint their roles maybe BBM-S not sure. In terms of Mentality I personally saw 3 dinstinct groups of players, the front 3 the middle 3 and the back 4 so maybe a balenced approach would allow this to happen. In terms of strategy it may sound weird but a counter mentality actually may be best suited with TI's of much higher defensive line and hassle opponents I would also use look for overlap as at some points the IF would hold the ball and wait for a wingback to overlap. In terms of the goalkeeper he wasnt really sweeping but rather throwing to defenders to get a counter going. I have only watched the first half as I am pretty busy.

I take it Oakland will have watched the game so I am totally open to your interpretation as you seem more up to date with Zeman than myself.

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Stupid me got the time difference wrong so I missed the entire 1st half. Hence, all of my comments will be based on what I saw in the 2nd half, which in my view was dreadful.

I think that you're correct regarding the midfield being a flat 3. To me its 2 B2B's and a DLP-D. Conti is really more of a destroyer and doesn't play too many searching balls. This group had real difficulty closing down today and allowed way too many direct balls over the top to the highly aggressive (wreckless) Zaza. If they don't learn their assignments, they're going to get their 'kepper killed.

The front three looked like this to me:

AP-S...AF...IF-A

Cossu on the left is a converted AMC and floated inside a lot. This is not unlike how Totti was used in Zeman's last stint with Roma. Neither have the pace to get behind defenders. Farias on the right also tucked in, but not nearly as much and he stayed higher up the pitch which seemed to isolate him. He was MIA in attack. Sau moved around quit a bit, but did generally try to stay near the last defender. This is different to how Zeman has used the center forward in the past. Sau is also a lot smaller than a typical Zeman center forward, so I don't see him being able to drop off and hold up the ball.

I agree that the outside backs are CWB's, but in the FM 4-3-3 these are bugged and don't interact as they should with the outside forwards. They tend to occupy the same space way too often. To get them to work I would try WB-A with a "get further forward" PI. The 2 CB's are a matched set, though today the right did seem to be a BPD. I'll have to watch him again.

Zeman's teams have often looked like they are trying to play on the counter and with a small quick CF this makes sense. I don't think that its like the FM Counter strategy though as it is always very fast and somewhat direct in possession (which the midfield was giving away cheaply today). We could try Counter with team instructions of "push up higher, offside trap, much higher tempo, more direct." I do think thought that it was more of Control strategy. In either case, it was, to me at least, Rigid. The three distinct lines is evidence of this.

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Going to give it a whirl on control now, i would say the wingbacks are in a flat back 4 just because it makes defending easier and doesnt affect attacking really, I would also set them to close down more as they were really really agressive at closing down I actually dont think hassle opponents is that much use as from the first half the front 3 really let the CB's have the ball and didnt press as much rather as soon as the ball hit second bank of 3 ( the midfield) they were pressing a large amount (less so the deeper of the trio) and I agree with regards to the BBM's but perhaps havign closing down more added on, I really dont want to over use the PI'S or TI'S to be honest with you.

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Tried a new formation got battered, almost at my wits end trying to get this to work properly

As did I and yes this is frustrating.

What truly is Zeman's method? I think that there is as much myth as reality surrounding this. What's clear to me is that he adapts to what he as to a greater degree than he is given credit for. On Saturday Cagliari was not nearly as aggressive in a attack as some of his previous teams. He doesn't have some of the parts that he's had in the past and is adapting to that. I guess that the question is, what is the ultimate Zeman team?

What I've been trying to do is adapt some aspects of MJ's outstanding tactic from the download page in order to create a Zeman tactic and it isn't going very well.

I'd say that in order to make this work, drop the CWB's. When you look at the average player positions, they get not further forward than FB's or WB's do when given the "get further forward" instruction and CWB's tend to get toasted defensively.

Playing a flat midfield might make similar to real life, but with attacking outside backs, its makes the defense even more fragile than Zeman's can be. It should be a Regista, and if you have more of a Conti type player, maybe adjust his role via instructions.

I think that one of the front three needs to be set to support, but using an AP has been worthless for me. If the Center Forward isn't one to hold the ball, I think that using a wide player as an IF-S would be better. I've put all 3 on attack in the past and it's worked though.

As for team instructions, on Saturday they played a high line, but I didn't get the sense that they were looking to put people offside. Maybe that should be dropped? I'd drop "look for the overlap" too. With the correct instruction the outside backs get forward and are found by their teammates. That instruction also makes the outside forwards less effective in attack.

I don't want to give up on this quite yet, but it is frustrating.

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Precisely I feel my knowledge of the match engine isnt enough to realise the tactic. It would be a huge help if one of the 'big tactical guns' of the forum gave us a hand with the tactic. And I agree for a post of over 2000 views would expect a little more input from the rest of the community.

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The aforementioned MJ tactics both fly in the face of much of the advice that we have been given regarding the match engine.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/392690-MJ-4-3-3-(From-Standard-to-Real-Madrid-in-3-seasons)

Both are attacking, yet neither has a single player assigned to that role and only two players assigned to defend. Six of the 10 outfield players are set to support. Also there are 3.5 specialists which would generally be a little more than recommended for a Balanced mentality. The point being that no "expert" would have given this a chance to work, but it does, and it is kind of my motivation for pursuing the Zeman project.

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