The Manchester United thread 2006/2007 - featuring BBB leaving early

[Taz & The Devil]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Lets face it, if we were perming two from three of who we need, Hargreaves should have been behind a winger then a striker in terms of priority. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the fact that Hargreaves has been our priority makes me wonder if we are looking to play with 3 central midfielders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fergie always has against the big guns/away in europe.

[Confused Clarity]

I don't really see it as a 451 not in the sense that most English clubs use it. It's generally more of a 4231 that the Spanish clubs particularly Barcelona use a lot.

[theis]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taz & The Devil:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

Lets face it, if we were perming two from three of who we need, Hargreaves should have been behind a winger then a striker in terms of priority. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, the fact that Hargreaves has been our priority makes me wonder if we are looking to play with 3 central midfielders. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fergie always has against the big guns/away in europe. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah but he could be moving towards it as a more permanent option. Could be a tactical masterstroke with the right personnel, could be a disaster.

[ACou2000]

3rd European Cup?

Must admit the 451/433 has won me over a little bit lately, because our front players have learnt to actually play it with some success.

Mainly helped by the fact Rooney has improved a lot coming in from the left, and Ronaldo can just play anywhere

[ACou2000]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

I don't really see it as a 451 not in the sense that most English clubs use it. It's generally more of a 4231 that the Spanish clubs particularly Barcelona use a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

kind of a 4231 as well as 433 and 451

it's ridiculously fluid at times. find lots of our players go to the right.. the left... up top... drop deep...

[Saha]

\o/ Hargs.

Hargs > FA Cup \o/

[Confused Clarity]

Yeh it is a very fluid kind of style, Scholes has been playing as a bit of a playmaker anchor role this season, he's said as much himself.

I see Hargreaves replacing him in the holding midfield position.

Hargreaves becoming the main defensive player who also runs with the ball, with Carrick being the quarterback style holding player.

That then leaves us with Giggs, Rooney, Park, Ronaldo & Scholes to occupy three positions. I don't see Park as being a regular, but a very good backup, with Giggs being an Impact player.

If it goes that way, then i actually agree with Theis that we need a striker first and foremost. Would like to see another player who can come in to that kind of formation in the attacking sense too really.

[theis]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ACou2000:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

I don't really see it as a 451 not in the sense that most English clubs use it. It's generally more of a 4231 that the Spanish clubs particularly Barcelona use a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

kind of a 4231 as well as 433 and 451

it's ridiculously fluid at times. find lots of our players go to the right.. the left... up top... drop deep... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At times when we've played it with a really attacking mentality, the football has been fantastic, it must be so hard to defend against when the front 4 are all rotating around from right to left with Scholes/Carrick willing to roam forwards at will as well.

[Taz & The Devil]

I think most formations based around a solid back 4 can work for us because of how fast and how comfortable our players our at switching positions and going forward.

The thing that is our main downfall is when Fergie has us play a rigid system up top where people stick to their position and he takes all the pace out of our side. please stop doing this Alex because its holding us back in some respects.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

I don't really see it as a 451 not in the sense that most English clubs use it. It's generally more of a 4231 that the Spanish clubs particularly Barcelona use a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It really isn't (although it would be lovely if it was). The third midfielder would have to be playing off the front man or properly wide, and that hasn't happened all season. The three have pretty much always been the three at Wembley, and they play as a true three, with Scholes as deep as Carrick and Fletcher with licence to get forward, but a starting position level with the other two.

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DeafParrot:

3rd next season then lads. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You think Arsenal will come back that strongly next year? Interesting.

[ACou2000]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ACou2000:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

I don't really see it as a 451 not in the sense that most English clubs use it. It's generally more of a 4231 that the Spanish clubs particularly Barcelona use a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

kind of a 4231 as well as 433 and 451

it's ridiculously fluid at times. find lots of our players go to the right.. the left... up top... drop deep... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

At times when we've played it with a really attacking mentality, the football has been fantastic, it must be so hard to defend against when the front 4 are all rotating around from right to left with Scholes/Carrick willing to roam forwards at will as well. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Roma :**)

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

Don't get me wrong, I still think we are in dire need of another winger.

I kinda reckon it will come down to the formation Ferguson is thinking off playing. We could see something like:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

XXXX

Rooney Ronaldo

Scholes

Carrick Hargreaves

</pre>

In which case a striker is priority or:

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

Rooney Saha/Smith

XXXX Scholes Hargreaves/Carrick Ronaldo

</pre>

In which case a winger is priority and another striker fairly essential.

Hope this works. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The thing with that assessment is, if you buy a winger you can still play either formation, moving Rooney to the central slot. So you have more flexibility. And the further away from the middle you are moving Rooney, the less of a good idea it is, so while you could use the counter argument that you can play him wide in a 4, you really don't want to.

[Confused Clarity]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

I don't really see it as a 451 not in the sense that most English clubs use it. It's generally more of a 4231 that the Spanish clubs particularly Barcelona use a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It really isn't (although it would be lovely if it was). The third midfielder would have to be playing off the front man or properly wide, and that hasn't happened all season. The three have pretty much always been the three at Wembley, and they play as a true three, with Scholes as deep as Carrick and Fletcher with licence to get forward, but a starting position level with the other two. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surely it was more like it against Roma?

[theis]

Yeah, I guess another winger gives us more flexibility.

Really want to see Berbatov come though and I doubt we can afford him and a winger at the same time No doubt Fergie will do something no ones expecting and sign both Micah Richards and Gareth Bale to fill in the gaps at right and left back that only he can see...

[Confused Clarity]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Taz & The Devil:

I think most formations based around a solid back 4 can work for us because of how fast and how comfortable our players our at switching positions and going forward.

The thing that is our main downfall is when Fergie has us play a rigid system up top where people stick to their position and he takes all the pace out of our side. please stop doing this Alex because its holding us back in some respects. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Isn't it funny how a year or two ago, most people were moaning about how we weren't sticking to a formation enough. Now it's that at times we play too rigidly

I personalyl agree with you Taz. I love seeing a great, free flowing side where players are not restricted by positions. We shouldnt be adapting to cope with other sides. We should be busy thinking of how we're going to use our own game to beat them. Every time we've done that against a big side, we've come out on top. When we've tried to contain them, we've come a croper.

[DeafParrot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DeafParrot:

3rd next season then lads. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You think Arsenal will come back that strongly next year? Interesting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I do indeed. They'll finish 2nd to us, you 3rd, Chelsea 4th, probably after being docked 10 points for going into administration after Abramovic walks out.

I can dream But in the immortal words of Les Dennis "If its there I'll give you the money meself."

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mark g:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

I don't really see it as a 451 not in the sense that most English clubs use it. It's generally more of a 4231 that the Spanish clubs particularly Barcelona use a lot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It really isn't (although it would be lovely if it was). The third midfielder would have to be playing off the front man or properly wide, and that hasn't happened all season. The three have pretty much always been the three at Wembley, and they play as a true three, with Scholes as deep as Carrick and Fletcher with licence to get forward, but a starting position level with the other two. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Surely it was more like it against Roma? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We didn't play a midfield 3 against Roma. Fletch was in for Scholes who was suspended.

The supposedly 4-4-2 we played that night you could call a 4-2-3-1, but we were talking about when we have a midfield 3.

[titchuk]

How old is Scholes now?

In a dream world, if you were playing that formation you'd have Kaka where Scholes is (so you've got 3 attacking midfielders), and drop Scholes back to partner Carrick/Hargreaves. He can still pick out great passes.

[ACou2000]

Scholes was the quality in a mire of crap in the 1st half yesterday

just such unbelievably consistent and accurate pinging of passes all over the pitch. i love him.

[red&white army]

Hargreaves

Just hoping Fergie isn't planning on playing 4-5-1, it didn't work in the last 2 seasons, and anyone can see Rooney is not a winger, and that we play best with 4-4-2.

Hope that Carrick and Scholes will rotate, and that Carrick will eventually take over the role of playmaker from Scholes.

Berbatov Rooney

new winger, Hargreaves, Carrick/Scholes, Ronaldo

That would be some team.

Finish 3rd next season if we go back to negative 4-5-1.

And why oh why did we sit back and let Chelsea turn the game yesterday into a preseason friendly??????

[Ter]

You lot are being linked with an £8m bid for Craig Gordon

[Ter]

He's better than Van Der Sar. And got his best years ahead of him.

A lot of money though, probably £5m would get him.

[red&white army]

Berbatov >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Huntelaar btw

However, can see us getting Huntelaar as he plays as a lone striker for Ajax, allowing us to play him in that role for us, with Rooney and Ronaldo wide, whereas Berbatov plays with a second striker.

Berbatov is special, and would be as good as Ruud at United. the thought of him and Rooney up front makes me drool!

[pjburrage]

having Scotland's #1 to join Holland's #1, England's #1, Poland's #1, a future German #1. Good idea.

[Confused Clarity]

Why the hell have you added it to the list Ryan?

Thought we were basing it on credible reports

[Ter]

Not really been impressed with Foster tbh. And is Borac not Poland's keeper?

Gordon has it all really (apart from his kicking which isn't too great)

[Ter]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thought we were basing it on credible reports </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying that Chick Young isn't a credible source?

[gonch19]

2 things that really p!ssed me off about yesterday:

1, Giggs taking corners instead of Carrick, when most of his deliveries were inept.

2, Ronaldo blasting free kicks into the wall, when its clear he cannot take free kicks any closer than 35 yards out.

Hargreaves is an ok if a bit pricey signing, rate him but not as much as other destructive midfielders going (essien, diarra of madrid, gattusso etc).

I can see Scholes playing a bit less next season with fergie going for a Hargreaves/Carrick midfield duo - with the intention of matching the Pirlo/Gattusso of Milan mould.

[Confused Clarity]

you clown

[Confused Clarity]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Thought we were basing it on credible reports </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying that Chick Young isn't a credible source? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Saying you're not

[gonch19]

i dunno how you guys feel but im almost as frustrated that the season's over as i am that we lost yesterday. almost wish we'd lost to portsmouth or some other team so that last sunday could be our final game

[Nick OGS20]

still gutted. third cup final i've been to, we've only lost three out of ten in my lifetime and i've been to all f**king three, give me a break ffs.

thought the defence did really well yesterday, can't fault any of them. Scholesy was great, Carrick and Fletch did alright, Giggs was shocking (getting really painful having to say this after almost every game atm - absolutely imperative we get another winger this summer so his appearances are limited, in a positive way), Rooney did really well apart from in front of goal, and Ronnie never really got in the game - think a lot of this 'not a big game player' talk is hugely unfair rot (world cup semi-final clearly not big enough), we didn't play to his strengths, we switched him just when he was really starting to give Ferreira the runaround and whenever he did beat his fullback we had no-one in the box to get on the end of his crosses. he was doubled-up on loads as well - entirely understandable of course, happens to all great players, especially wingers. key for him (and us) now is a) that he learns how to cope with that (and he will), and b) that we get another genuine class winger to take the pressure off - there are only so many players (generally one tbf) that you can double up on and pay special attention to before you start playing into other players' hands.

tactically we were poor - we had the confidence and momentum going into the game and Chelsea very clearly just wanted to stop us playing, keep it tight and nick something (Joe Cole admitted as much in an interview afterwards). we completely played into their hands in that respect, we really should have just gone at them, preferably with Smithy starting. still thought we were marginally the better side - certainly the more ambitious - and the ball in behind the Chelsea fullbacks that was on all game, usually from Scholes, should really have brought some success - not least that Giggs chance where he seemed to take an eternity on it.

don't want to bang on about the ref too much. he was shockingly inept for both teams, we seemed to get the worst of it in as much as a couple of times he almost seemed to wait to see if there was an advantage for us and when there was THEN whistled to bring it back. and then ofc that Giggs/Cech incident - it's definitely a foul by Ryan on Cech but the ref doesn't give it :/ even so, it's a foul by Essien on Giggs that clearly stops him making proper contact - you'd have had to back even Giggsy on that form to score from there unimpeded. oh well.

interesting day away from the game. got down there very early, spent a couple of hours outside a pub that i've completely forgotten the name of (the Greyhound maybe?) by Wembley Central station singing, drinking and heckling the laughable number of open-top buses carrying Chelsea fans going past. headed into the ground and en route proceeded to get into arguments with two people, firstly someone who took issue with me saying the 'find madeleine mccann' posters and video were utterly pointless (i can't remember exactly what prompted me to say this, still stand by it though), and then more vociferously, some Chelsea fan who found me carrying an Argentina flag gravely offensive (omgz you should learn your history mate, they were our enemy in the falklands, i fought over there, our men died, blah blah blah). don't remember exactly how the argument panned out, but i was at that drunken stage where i felt fairly invincible and argued my corner. last thing i said to him as he went in was that i was just supporting one of my players, and i assumed he did the same with Germany's Michael Ballack. no response to that, smug.

the stadium itself - 'meh'. probably not best to judge it because yesterday was gutting and so there are obviously going to be negative connotations, but even before the game started i couldn't help thinking how unimpressive it was. suppose it was always going to struggle to live up to the hype and the cost, but still, just seemed devoid of character, pretty poor atmospherically, and where we were especially was weird - right at the back of the bottom tier under this overhang which was extremely low, was almost like watching from inside a bus shelter. might put some pictures up later if i cba. not even going to go into details about getting lost after the game and finding ourselves back outside the stadium two hours after the game finished, awful.

oh well. good news about hargreaves. roll on august.

[Razor Eddie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rcjuk:

Chelsea fans at work handing out plenty of money this season.

The bet's they've had include:

sheva will score at least 5 more goals than heskey-LOST

chelsea will win the champions league ("CHELSEAS YEAR THIS RYAN!")-LOST

Chelsea will win the league again easily-LOST

Chelsea will win 3 or more trophies-LOST

Chelsea will be top by january (In november)-LOST

Chelsea will be top by march (In January)-LOST

United will be crap and win nothing-LOST

You can see why I'm sometime bitter when I have to deal with these two ****ing idiots ALL season.

The thing is, they wont even accept that they were utterly and totally wrong.

Ah well, I'll take some money off them as a conciliation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My boss, and the supervisor, and several other blokes are Rent Boys, too.

ATM, I'm the only Red. There was a small army of us at one point, but alas, they are gone.

I can live with that, though. Because it means there are no Scouse fans, and only the one Arse.

[Razor Eddie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">

Originally posted by Rcjuk:

Chelsea fans at work handing out plenty of money this season. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Support your local team.

[ACou2000]

one of the issues with Ronaldo yesterday was that not only was he double up on, but the support coming from full back just wasnt there - Heinze and Wes are probably the worst 2 we have for getting forward from full back positions.

Ronaldo was frequently left relatively isolated with 2 men to beat AND nobody in the box.

additionally, we need to remember he's still very much in development and will take some time - now that he's become such an obvious threat to any opposition - to learn how to deal with the extra tight/numerous marking. I have no doubt he will learn this though.

[ACou2000]

further point: why the **** does Giggs keep on and on and on and on trying these "clever" little flicks and backheels when they NEVER come off

use your experience a bit Ryan ffs

[Ratinho]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rcjuk:

Chelsea fans at work handing out plenty of money this season.

The bet's they've had include:

sheva will score at least 5 more goals than heskey-LOST </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Remember you mentioning that. Emile so good.

And Sheva garbage obv.

[Jambo]

Gimme £8m for Gordon

[No Longer Bling]

very happy weve got OH wrapped up so early and £17m is much better than i thought it would be. think he will be a superb addition.

cant believe the keeper reports are true unless were utterly loaded and no one has decided to mention it. must must must get a new winger, giggs just can not be relied on at all. and i want a forward too, need someone who will actually consistently hit the back of the net.

mon owen

[ACou2000]

you better be referring to Hargreaves again at the end there

[RSB]

Really sceptical of any more joy out of the window. Fours 'ins' already, with our transfer history plus the debt means that I doubt we'll have anyone else in without selling. Even if we sell off Kier, Silvestre and Saha, I doubt we'd get £15m combined, and I can't see us plunging all the money we get from sales back into new signings.

[Razor Eddie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ACou2000:

you better be referring to Hargreaves again at the end there </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

whs

[BBB]

jules you utter ******, why the hell do you want owen? he's not as good as he used to be and more injury prone than saha ffs

[Mikey G]

your squad could be quite awesome next season

[ACou2000]

and jules has the audacity to hate on Ruud

what a ******

[Robinhood]

SAF part of a 5 man scouting party on their way to watch Huntelaar tonight, hopefully he'll shine

[ACou2000]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Robinhood:

SAF part of a 5 man scouting party on their way to watch Huntelaar tonight, hopefully he'll shine </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

is this FACT?

[Philip Rolfe]

if it is then they'll be disappointed, he played this morning

[mark g]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Juni:

if it is then they'll be disappointed, he played this morning </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Kickabout in the park iirc.