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The Manchester United thread 2006/2007 - featuring BBB leaving early

foobR

By foobR,
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theis

theis

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

1. Build a cantilevered structure over the railway, not sure how feasible this is. May only be able to fit an extra 10,000 or so in doing this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that would be prohibitively expensive as well. you'd have to knock down the entire stand and basically start it again in the likely event that the foundations for the front of the stand are ill equipped to cope with the extra stress caused by the added weight to the rear.

it wouldn't just be a case of taking off the roof and adding the extension, put it that way. icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't we have to knock the entire north stand down and rebuild that from scratch as well?

But yeah I never expected it to be easy. How much would it cost to relocate the railway line by 20m or so icon_biggrin.gif

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Scatter

Scatter

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scatter:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

1. Build a cantilevered structure over the railway, not sure how feasible this is. May only be able to fit an extra 10,000 or so in doing this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

that would be prohibitively expensive as well. you'd have to knock down the entire stand and basically start it again in the likely event that the foundations for the front of the stand are ill equipped to cope with the extra stress caused by the added weight to the rear.

it wouldn't just be a case of taking off the roof and adding the extension, put it that way. icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't we have to knock the entire north stand down and rebuild that from scratch as well?

But yeah I never expected it to be easy. How much would it cost to relocate the railway line by 20m or so icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

bear in mind i have little knowledge of the area, but...

i don't see why the rail line would actually have to move. as little as a 1% grade on the line, some pretty severe **** off foundation work, and you could basically build a subway station slightly under/inside the framework for any new stand.

roughly how far back from the edge of the current stand is the furthest edge of the railway line?

roughly how far away are these houses as well? i'm assuming there is a road between the houses and the stand too...

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James07?

James07?

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I thought the problem with the railway line was as much to do with the disruption caused by having to close it for a time? Also, the issue with space and access to the site - it's not just a case of knocking down that one row of houses.

And yes, the North Stand was built from scratch, it wasn't on top of the orginal piece.

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Scatter

Scatter

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the only way around that would be to close the ground and work would have to be from the outside to in.

which adds extra time to the development, as well as substantial cost.

not to mention the added cost of paying someone else to use their council house...

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Scatter

Scatter

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actually mika that picture helps. icon_biggrin.gif

james is right, the problem isn't really the railway. that amateur render was well off. it looks pretty deep set in that pic, and wouldn't be an issue.

access rights look like they'd be bitch.

oh, and leave my ****ing crayons alone icon_mad.gif

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James07?

James07?

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I guess most of the non-ticket office related admin and offices are also in the South Stand, as well as the high end hospitality stuff...you're also looking at access issues to the rest of the ground during any building work.

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Scatter

Scatter

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christ... that clearing between the houses and the train line only looks to be about 30 metres. icon_biggrin.gif

yeah... um... no chance of mirroring the north stand without at least that first row of houses going...

the train line simply not a problem though.

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theis

theis

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deanb291186:

Could of been a lot easier if we moved the pitch 20 yards or so away from the railway line when we rebuilt the Stretty and North stand </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The NE quadrant is already as close to the canal as is currently possible. FFS why did we choose a sight with a canal and railway line in such close proximity. Did we not know we'd want to attempt to build one of the biggest stadiums in England in 100 years time?

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James07?

James07?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deanb291186:

Could of been a lot easier if we moved the pitch 20 yards or so away from the railway line when we rebuilt the Stretty and North stand </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, that goes back to the lack of vision when they knocked down the Stretty. Despite just about everyone else saying the stadium should be bigger, the board decided that the 44,000 bowl (which did look very good) was going to be big enough.

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Young Jimlad

Young Jimlad

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

Apparently there are a couple of options with what to do with the South stand.

1. Build a cantilevered structure over the railway, not sure how feasible this is. May only be able to fit an extra 10,000 or so in doing this.

2. Build over the railway at extremely high cost when you factor in buying the houses as well. Seeing as though the north stand added 11,000 seats and the quadrants 8,000, it should take the overall attendance to 95,000.

Here are some renders that I came across of what Old Trafford could look like, scroll down the page. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Those mock-ups look quite good, but a stadium design that is obviously symmetrical and complete is going to look good anyway. Its not like we're going to get anything like an "original" design and because OT has been developed gradually & any future developments have to be in keeping with the original all-seater designs in terms of overall structure.

Even if we didn't fill it every game, to have a 95,000 or so seater would be awesome & as has been said with that many potentially coming through the doors you'd think that reducing ticket prices would become a very real possibility. They should do that anyway but they won't.

I'm not construction savvy so can I just make sure that I understand what a "cantilevered stand" would entail?:

Essentially instead of moving the entire structure of the South Stand towards the residential area and over the railway line, the expanded second tier of the South Stand would be, hanging I guess, over the railway itself?

I assume there would be numerous issues over how such a structure would be reinforced so as not to collapse when full of people and the inevitable internal structures like catering facilities etc. Not to say that it couldn't be done but I guess it would be something of a headache and it would probably still uncomfortably encroach on the residential area.

If we were still a PLC and our finances were being managed responsibly I could have seen us buying the railway and a fair amount of the residences in the future as it would have been a logical step eventually assuming our success is maintained.

Another remote possibility, at least when you consider the extent to which money has been invested in the ground since the Taylor Report was drawn up & published in 1989, is to knock OT down, redevelop the entire site and "move" the ground away from the railway slightly. But then thinking about the space on the other side of the ground thats probably not viable either. Actually when I consider the massive expense involved in such a major and at the same time minor alteration to the position of the ground I can't believe I've suggested it...

Skip it. Until we can afford to buy the local residences and build over the railway line and improve transport links away from OT to cope with the 95,000 or so people its a pipe dream to expect more than we've got at the minute.

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Confused Clarity

Confused Clarity

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coldberg:

Why would be want an extra 20,000 people sat in silence? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We could spearhead the safe standing argument and turn the lower tier of the south stand into a convertable section allowing for safe terraces or seating. Just like they do in German icon14.gif

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Young Jimlad

Young Jimlad

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

how can you buy one of the main railway routes out of manchester? icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I meant like, leasing it or something while the building work was going on or paying to have it relocated in a subway style like Scatter suggested (unless I've misread that as well).

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Coldberg

Coldberg

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I honestly know nothing about that railway line next to OT. Is it really busy? Never seen any trains go down it on non-matchdays when I have been around the ground. I just assumed it would get matchday trains & maybe a few industrial trains.

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James07?

James07?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gregg Carter:

We could spearhead the safe standing argument and turn the lower tier of the south stand into a convertable section allowing for safe terraces or seating. Just like they do in German icon14.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My next post was going to say that United might do better to put a bit of money behind the safe standing campaign and look at returning the bottom of both ends to standing.

Scatter, how much of an impact will 2012 have on any other major developments, in terms of eating up skills/ resources and pushing prices up?

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Scatter

Scatter

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Young Jimlad:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

how can you buy one of the main railway routes out of manchester? icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I meant like, leasing it or something while the building work was going on or paying to have it relocated in a subway style like Scatter suggested (unless I've misread that as well). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you don't lease it either? icon_biggrin.gif

you're basically offering to upgrade the track at no cost to the owner in exchange for any slight modification like a downhill grade in order to build over it.

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Scatter

Scatter

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by James07?:

Scatter, how much of an impact will 2012 have on any other major developments, in terms of eating up skills/ resources and pushing prices up? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

if it's anything like what happened in sydney - it'll have a massive effect.

although that was really only in sydney. manchester really shouldn't be too affected by the london games.

what events, if any, are you hosting?

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James07?

James07?

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nothing in manchester (apart from football) that I know of. I just assumed there is a fairly small number of companies able to work on a project of this size and complexity, and their services will be at a premium over the next few years?

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Scatter

Scatter

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they will be. but it'll generally only be the biggest companies for sure. contractors will charge a fortune. all that will happen though is that other companies will get to pick up the slack for tenders they'd usually lose to those involved in working on the infrastructure of the games.

for the most part, the effect was more felt in the tourist industries. hotels, price of beer etc.

you won't really notice if you're not in london.

and given that london is already prohibitively expensive as it is, it might not change all that much at all.

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Nick OGS20

Nick OGS20

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Coldberg:

I honestly know nothing about that railway line next to OT. Is it really busy? Never seen any trains go down it on non-matchdays when I have been around the ground. I just assumed it would get matchday trains & maybe a few industrial trains. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it's mainly freight stuff i think but i've been past there on a train to liverpool once so i assume a few passenger services go down there as well.

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Jono

Jono

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Greetings,

Rumours in the press (I know, I know) are that Sir Alex has been keeping an eye on our latest player to come through the academy Chris Martin.

Is it only paper talk, or is there anything to this, to give you an idea of what Martin is like, he has that arrogance that you need as a forward similar to Rooney, but clearly not to the same level of talent of Rooney. Hes banged in 5 goals in like 8 games for us which is quite impressive since its been an instant hit after being put in, not needing any time to settle to the pace of first team action.

He hasnt actually signed a Pro contract with us which could be one of the reasons why the big clubs are keeping an eye on him thinking that if he turns out to be the next big thing they can swoop in there and get him on the cheap.

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theis

theis

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On a similar note, is there any way that Man Utd could improve transport links to and from Old Trafford. There are already two tram stations on different lines within easy walking distance, a train station next to the stadium and I guess that local roads are already at breaking point. I also assume that the tram lines and train line are all running at full capacity on match days?

If we were to increase the capacity by 19,000 is there anyway that we could shift that many more people to and from the game reasonably? Start transporting people by canal boat \o/

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ericcantona7

ericcantona7

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there's been plans to expand the trams for ages, but it keeps getting blocked, I suppose if an extension to the Trafford Centre is done then they could have a stop closer to OT, but I don't think one is necessary, what they need is more frequent trams from the city centre, which I guess they would already do if they could.

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Nick OGS20

Nick OGS20

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by theis:

Start transporting people by canal boat \o/ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually does happen icon_biggrin.gif

if i didn't have my bizarre fear of going on boats, it'd be a fantastic way to get there.

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