crafty bison Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I think this should be moved from Attributes to PPMs, because being 'good' or 'bad' at it is not sufficient to confer any kind of advantage. Everything else in the Attributes section has positive effects (some can also be negative depending on the situation, but it is clear that Tendency To Punch can and should not be seen in the same way). The best way to put it is, if this were added to the game now, it would CLEARLY go into PPMs and not into Attributes. Therefore, that is where it should be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinger061 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Im not so sure. Simply having it as a PPM would mean they either do it or they don't, where as really thats not the case. By making it an attribute it can determine how often they do it and not just if they do it or not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftg87 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Im not so sure. Simply having it as a PPM would mean they either do it or they don't, where as really thats not the case. By making it an attribute it can determine how often they do it and not just if they do it or not. Agreed, the tendency for a keeper to punch a ball isn't something that one keeper has and another hasn't, like forwards making runs into space or midfielders holding the ball, it's something every keeper does and all the tendency to punch attribute does is show how regularly he will do it, so for it be in the game, all keepers would have to have the PPM and then there is no way to know how much he will do it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nots Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 i dont really notice my keepers ever punching no matter what they have in this stat but yeah, some keepers do itmore than others irl but ever keeper still does it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty bison Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 The PPM wouldn't be "Punches the ball", it'd be "Likes to punch the ball" and another would be "Tries to catch ball instead of punching" (like "Tries to pass instead of shooting"). Do you disagree with me that it doesn't fit in with attributes like Handling etc.? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftg87 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 The PPM wouldn't be "Punches the ball", it'd be "Likes to punch the ball" and another would be "Tries to catch ball instead of punching" (like "Tries to pass instead of shooting").Do you disagree with me that it doesn't fit in with attributes like Handling etc.? Yes I do disagree, I think SI have got it right, it needs to be a variable as otherwise it would be too digital, ie on or off, one of the factors that makes a goalkeeper useful is if he catches the ball well, and having a low tendency to punch helps towards seeing if he does this, having to go to a seperate screen just to see whether he likes punching the ball or not is, IMO, not a good idea, for me, when I am playing the game, the tendency to punch attribute is key to a good goalkeeper Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranjith Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 as an aside, tendancy to punch should be made more clear instead of just using the "punching" attribute in the search filter. It just looks like the ability to punch rather than the tendancy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty bison Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Yes I do disagree, I think SI have got it right, it needs to be a variable as otherwise it would be too digital, ie on or off, one of the factors that makes a goalkeeper useful is if he catches the ball well, and having a low tendency to punch helps towards seeing if he does this, having to go to a seperate screen just to see whether he likes punching the ball or not is, IMO, not a good idea, for me, when I am playing the game, the tendency to punch attribute is key to a good goalkeeper If your emboldened part is true, Tendency To Punch does not fit in with the rest of the attributes which all suggest something positive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty bison Posted August 31, 2008 Author Share Posted August 31, 2008 Yes I do disagree, I think SI have got it right, it needs to be a variable as otherwise it would be too digital, ie on or off, one of the factors that makes a goalkeeper useful is if he catches the ball well, and having a low tendency to punch helps towards seeing if he does this, having to go to a seperate screen just to see whether he likes punching the ball or not is, IMO, not a good idea, for me, when I am playing the game, the tendency to punch attribute is key to a good goalkeeper as an aside, tendancy to punch should be made more clear instead of just using the "punching" attribute in the search filter. It just looks like the ability to punch rather than the tendancy. I'd like there to be Punching and Catching attributes too. Tendency To Punch could stay but be hidden. Just like 'tendency to use weaker foot' must surely be in there somewhere, yet all we see is how STRONG each foot is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Eccentricity and aggression are negative attributes. :confused: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftg87 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 If your emboldened part is true, Tendency To Punch does not fit in with the rest of the attributes which all suggest something positive. I agree with that, but how else were SI supposed to do it? However SCIAG has come up with a cracking idea, have a look at his thread here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ftg87 Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Eccentricity and aggression are negative attributes. :confused: Sorry about the double post, but I just had to say thanks for bringing that up, helps my point immensely, shame I didn't think of it myself Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
r0x0r Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Eccentricity and aggression are negative attributes. :confused: No they aren't... And neither is Tendancy to punch. Arsenal, in real life, need an aggressive midfielder. We'd rather have a strong, fast, aggressive midfielder who can tackle than a strong, fast, non aggrsssive midfielder who can tackle in the middle. Eccentricity can lead to goalkeepers messing up. Then again, it can also lead to them pulling things off that a normal, solid keeper never would. Lehman's dancing on the goal line for the RVN penalty was eccentric. It was positive though. Tendancy to punch is a good thing to have if you have fast, aware centerbacks and fullbacks, and like to counter attack. Rather than catching the ball, getting back on his feet and throwing, a keeper may punch it allowing the fullback to pick it up, sprint down the line and set up a counter attack. Sure they can be negative in their extremes, but they can have positive effects too. I'm sure there are peope out there who like their keeper to come out, punch the ball and act eccentricly. edit: I just realised, decisions is key here. High tendancy to punch and high decisions can be a VERY positive thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Aggression 20 is worse than aggression 16 though. With aggression and eccentricity, the prime is 14-16, instead of 20. Or at least, it should be. It is generally also considered better to have aggression of say 7 than 20, which indicates that it's a negative attribute is most situations, doesn't it? I agree that it's not always negative- I'm currently actually looking for a DM with high aggression so I can stop playing my right back there. I like a bit of steel alongside my passing defensive midfielder. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crafty bison Posted September 1, 2008 Author Share Posted September 1, 2008 It is not "generally" considered better. It depends what sort of a player you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCIAG Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 It is not "generally" considered better. It depends what sort of a player you want. A player who gets sent off every few matches or a player who doesn't? Hmm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Unit1 Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Eccentricity and tendency to punch could be in mental attributes for a keeper. How crazy you are is a mental fing. I'm a thinking tendency to punch is how often you punch which is something your minds formulates and decides. So those 2 ave got to be moved to mental . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 There aren't goalkeeper-specific mental attributes so that would just be silly - better to keep all goalkeeper-specific attributes in one place, whatever they relate to. Since goalkeepers (in common with every other player) don't have hands in the 2d FM match engine I wouldn't generally know or care if my goalkeeper has punch the ball away or kicked it anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
perpetua Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 Aggression 20 is worse than aggression 16 though. Not necessarily. You need to look at it in conjunction with the tackling attribute. A player with low tackling and high aggression is prone to receiving a lot of cards for mistimed challenges. A player with low aggression and high tackling is prone to tackle as a last resort. A player with high aggression and high tackling makes timely tackles before the opponent has a chance to try to make anything happen. So a player with: 20 Aggression & 20 Tackling > 10 Aggression & 20 Tackling > 20 Aggression & 10 Tackling Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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