Silk & Steel - The Quickening......... exclusively for 14.3

[gedro2]

Going to try this on my celtic save because as in real life I am winning every thing domestically but cant buy a point in the champions league, keep you posted with results.

what a laugh , plugged it in and beat Barca 2-0 first game, better try to get it fluid pretty sharpish

[wanderer89]

As promised Mr Rosler, results from when I plugged it in until the end of the season. Finished the season in 6th place, will upload some screenshots of goal times/types of goals etc, see if anything is useful to you.

I chose last 40 matches as I used yours for 41 matches so thought that was the best way to get the best inclination of how the tactic has performed.

Goal times:

Goal types:

Goal assists:

Tactic stats:

[Westwood Wizard]

First game played as newly appointed Manager of Napoli

Napoli 6-4 Crotone, we had to come back twice, very tense game, but a briliant performance from Higuain who netted in 4 goals.

I'll definitely have to try this out then--Higuain can't score to save his life on my Napoli save!

[Jehiel]

Cant wait to try this. Your v2 tactics changed my ame for me.

[Jorgen]

Hi Mr Rosler,

Would you share your opinion on what every position would need to be excellent for that spot in the team?

Right now I am managing Ajax and have the following players:

GK: Vermeer // backup: Cillisen

DL: Boilesen (need to replace him, I guess) // backup: ?

DLC: Moisander // backup: Veldman

DRC: Denswil // backup: ?

DR: Van Rhijn // backup: ?

MLC: Schöne // backup: Duarte

MC: De Jong // backup: ?

MRC: Poulsen (was my DMC in RM2 and SS2) // backup: ?

AML: Meleg // backup: ?

SC: Sigtorsson // Montero (bought him from Sporting)

AMR: Reyes (bought him from Sevilla) // ?

Other players available:

Maduro (bought him from Valencia), Enoh, Ligeon, Andersson, Fisher, Sana, Serero, Klaassen, Hoessen

No longer in team:

Blind (sold to Shakhtar), Kishna (to Southampton)

backup ? means that I have no backup in my team available, or I am unsure who to use.

Do you think these players are suited for your tactic, or should I make some changes to get the best out of S&S-Q?

As playing with Ajax I am very happy to have a 4-3-3 based tactic with wingers by the way! So thank you very much!

[Mr U Rosler]

Hold fire folks, i'm running the 2nd half of my test with an uber tight defensive set up i've used before, front 3 will be unchanged but we will be down to 1 CM/A.

I'll see how it goes.

[ChefRobGaming]

i went on a 22 games winning streak and then it just went to pot lost 5 in a row now, hopefully your next set up fixes this

thanks for posting it though Ive had alot of fun with it today

[Mr U Rosler]

As promised Mr Rosler, results from when I plugged it in until the end of the season. Finished the season in 6th place, will upload some screenshots of goal times/types of goals etc, see if anything is useful to you.

I chose last 40 matches as I used yours for 41 matches so thought that was the best way to get the best inclination of how the tactic has performed.

Goal times:

Goal types:

Goal assists:

Tactic stats:

Thanks for this, very useful.

How much did your cm/a's actually contribute in terms of goals?

I'm wondering if box to box or ball winner might be better options.

[ipswichjon2]

Not sure my heart will take too many games like this one! Seems powerful striker who can play as an inside forward reaps dividends, few gaps at the back though, might need some shoring up here but I guess that's a trade off for it being more attacking!

[wanderer89]

Thanks for this, very useful.

How much did your cm/a's actually contribute in terms of goals?

I'm wondering if box to box or ball winner might be better options.

Ramires

Mario Suarez

Frank Lampard

Oscar

Marco Van Ginkel

Willian

[Mr U Rosler]

Ramires

Mario Suarez

Frank Lampard

Oscar

Marco Van Ginkel:thup:

Willian

Thanks dude

[SilverSurfie]

Yay, new tactic out. I'm currently midseason in my current save so will begin the training for the switch over. Although I'm not super excited about wingers I this PA194 natural winger regen come through this season so now I dont have to waste time retraining him into striker. Would you suggest using this in conjunction with S&Sv2? I'm still having alot of success with S&Sv2, currently in first place in Dec with a 5 point lead on Chelsea.

In your initial post you mentioned how you wanted to create CCC from the flanks with crosses would pairing one a creative winger (High pass/Crossing) and a goalscoring winger (High finish/Heading) be better or a more well rounded set of wingers that both can create and score but are not as specialized as the first pair?

[Mr U Rosler]

Yay, new tactic out. I'm currently midseason in my current save so will begin the training for the switch over. Although I'm not super excited about wingers I this PA194 natural winger regen come through this season so now I dont have to waste time retraining him into striker. Would you suggest using this in conjunction with S&Sv2? I'm still having alot of success with S&Sv2, currently in first place in Dec with a 5 point lead on Chelsea.

In your initial post you mentioned how you wanted to create CCC from the flanks with crosses would pairing one a creative winger (High pass/Crossing) and a goalscoring winger (High finish/Heading) be better or a more well rounded set of wingers that both can create and score but are not as specialized as the first pair?

I'll hold fire on answering the question about which tactic to use, i'm just testing am updated version.

Re wingers, yeah I quite like the one creator one goalscorer approach although they will both do a bit of both. You can influence this by there feet. right footer on right = more assists. Left footer on right = more goal threat. and vice-versa.

[Silverfiress]

Ive seen something happen four times so far in my game with Swansea. The GK distributes the ball to the central defender who 9 out of 10 times due to the opposition striker being very close, totally misplaces the pass which leads into a very big goalscoring threat. Teams like Fulham or WBA did not take advantage of this but Tottenham and Man City totally did.

I have also noticed that ,when a through ball is played behind my fullbacks the CD's try to close down (thats pretty good tho) what actually happens is, BOTH DC's close down simultaneously... which leads into their ST beging completly unmarked in the center and its most of the times a free goal.

EDIT : played two more games , conceeded two more goals from the same situation as described earlier, my GK passes the ball to my CD who tries to find the DLP with a short pass, 9 out of 10 times, it is misplaced, regardless which defender gets the ball either Amat, Williams , Balanta or Chico... Benteke just scored a screamer after a misplaced pass.

[Mr U Rosler]

Ive seen something happen four times so far in my game with Swansea. The GK distributes the ball to the central defender who 9 out of 10 times due to the opposition striker being very close, totally misplaces the pass which leads into a very big goalscoring threat. Teams like Fulham or WBA did not take advantage of this but Tottenham and Man City totally did.

I have also noticed that ,when a through ball is played behind my fullbacks the CD's try to close down (thats pretty good tho) what actually happens is, BOTH DC's close down simultaneously... which leads into their ST beging completly unmarked in the center and its most of the times a free goal.

EDIT : played two more games , conceeded two more goals from the same situation as described earlier, my GK passes the ball to my CD who tries to find the DLP with a short pass, 9

out of 10 times, it is misplaced, regardless which defender gets the ball either Amat, Williams , Balanta or Chico... Benteke just scored a screamer after a misplaced pass.

I have seen that a few times but not many. Many times I've seen the GK distribute the ball the CB, who passes to FB who plays it up the line to inside forward who sets up the attack.

This is a genuine question and I'm not being rude but what do you suggest as an alternative means of GK distribution? Kicking long is an alternative but I would then get people complaining about opponents winning headers and attacking from this!

I've also seen the 'double' closing down of a player by the CB's. Not sure what I can do, close down less on CB's u guess but not sure that's a good idea.

[MTM1977]

I have seen that a few times but not many. Many times I've seen the GK distribute the ball the CB, who passes to FB who plays it up the line to inside forward who sets up the attack.

This is a genuine question and I'm not being rude but what do you suggest as an alternative means of GK distribution? Kicking long is an alternative but I would then get people complaining about opponents winning headers and attacking from this!

I've also seen the 'double' closing down of a player by the CB's. Not sure what I can do, close down less on CB's u guess but not sure that's a good idea.

Couple of things i have noticed in my own testings.

1. If you set the GK to "Distribute to defenders", but don't set "Pass it Shorter" he quite often opens to the FB's. That's not foolproof either, passes still get misplaced sometimes.

2. If you set it to "Take quick throws", it actually becomes quite interesting. Then he opens to defenders with a throw if possible, but also takes long kicks when there is no short opening available.

I haven't tested it enough yet, but it might work...

[Mr U Rosler]

Couple of things i have noticed in my own testings.

1. If you set the GK to "Distribute to defenders", but don't set "Pass it Shorter" he quite often opens to the FB's. That's not foolproof either, passes still get misplaced sometimes.

2. If you set it to "Take quick throws", it actually becomes quite interesting. Then he opens to defenders with a throw if possible, but also takes long kicks when there is no short opening available.

I haven't tested it enough yet, but it might work...

Both good ideas. Thanks.

[wkdsoul]

Can i see some stats on the effectiveness of the F9? is he purely space creation and build up?

[MTM1977]

Both good ideas. Thanks.

No problem!

Another comment / question (not aiming to be rude, just wondering).

The team instructions contain just about all the options which make team to retain possession and play short passing play.

Could that actually hurt the attacking? Meaning that they concentrate too much on keeping the possession and the attacks are not straightforward enough?

That's at least the feeling i got when i didn't get my team to work with this. I think the formation is good (might still want to have DM+2CM though), but maybe not aggressive enough?

[Mr U Rosler]

Can i see some stats on the effectiveness of the F9? is he purely space creation and build up?

I'm at work so can't put anything up but Eto had 15 goals in 19 games. But that's Eto and that's Chelsea!

[Mr U Rosler]

No problem!

Another comment / question (not aiming to be rude, just wondering).

The team instructions contain just about all the options which make team to retain possession and play short passing play.

Could that actually hurt the attacking? Meaning that they concentrate too much on keeping the possession and the attacks are not straightforward enough?

That's at least the feeling i got when i didn't get my team to work with this. I think the formation is good (might still want to have DM+2CM though), but maybe not aggressive enough?

That's possible.

I can't recall if I left 'play out of defence' on team instructions. If so that would be the first to come off. Might help with the distribution issues from GK as well,

If I personally tested every single variable I'd be here until 2020! That's were you guys can help.

[Silverfiress]

Mr Rosler, im hardly a tactics expert and my suggestions arent really worth mentioning I am just pointing out what i have noticed during my game with Swansea, if you should take anything into consideration that's great, glad i could point something out. If these are known issues i apologise of wasting your time ^^

[Mr U Rosler]

MTM1977, if your not busy I'd be interested in you running a test with a stripped down version.

Retain possession, play out of defence, work ball into box all taken off,

I'm at work till 7pm so I cant do it.

A fresh save with someone decent would be good. Maybe 15 - 20 games.

I understand if you don't want to do it :-)

( or anyone else for that matter!)

[Mr U Rosler]

Mr Rosler, im hardly a tactics expert and my suggestions arent really worth mentioning I am just pointing out what i have noticed during my game with Swansea, if you should take anything into consideration that's great, glad i could point something out. If these are known issues i apologise of wasting your time ^^

Was actually very helpful, thanks :-)

[MTM1977]

MTM1977, if your not busy I'd be interested in you running a test with a stripped down version.

Retain possession, play out of defence, work ball into box all taken off,

I'm at work till 7pm so I cant do it.

A fresh save with someone decent would be good. Maybe 15 - 20 games.

I understand if you don't want to do it :-)

( or anyone else for that matter!)

I can give it a try.

However, i am also at work at the moment. Will be off in a few hours, then i can give it a go.

[Mr U Rosler]

I can give it a try.

However, i am also at work at the moment. Will be off in a few hours, then i can give it a go.

Thanks dude. Could you also put 'close down less' on both centre backs to see if that improves there behavior.

Thanks!

[wkdsoul]

I'm at work so can't put anything up but Eto had 15 goals in 19 games. But that's Eto and that's Chelsea!

Sounds good. I have a team i can fit it into and test it out, i'll give it a go over the weekend. Ahhh Uwe, the name takes me back to screaming from the Kippax!

[MTM1977]

Thanks dude. Could you also put 'close down less' on both centre backs to see if that improves there behavior.

Thanks!

If i remember correctly, that can't be put on them, at least not in defend or cover duty. I will check.

I don't remember if tight marking was on for them, if it is maybe take that off instead?

[DB11]

Any particular attributes for the two CMs?

[Silverfiress]

I will try those tweaks as well with a new save, im thinking of trying it out with Everton.

[Mr U Rosler]

I will try those tweaks as well with a new save, im thinking of trying it out with Everton.

That would be great.

Everton would be ideal. Decent squad but not strong enough to paper over cracks.

[MTM1977]

That would be great.

Everton would be ideal. Decent squad but not strong enough to paper over cracks.

I will test some team in Serie A.

I have played Serie A quite a lot and some teams there use a bit different formations than what we usually come up against.

What do you think, should i take of the "mark tighter" from CB's? Team instructions already have Tighter Marking on, so maybe having it as PI is overkill?

[Mr U Rosler]

I will test some team in Serie A.

I have played Serie A quite a lot and some teams there use a bit different formations than what we usually come up against.

What do you think, should i take of the "mark tighter" from CB's? Team instructions already have Tighter Marking on, so maybe having it as PI is overkill?

Go for it.

[Mr U Rosler]

Any particular attributes for the two CMs?

I would be looking at Acceleration, Passing, Finishing, Composure.

Retrained AMC are a good way to go.

[theboot]

Played afew games with the tweaks you have been making....drawn the first few games but have won the last three.

The right inside forward scores most of the goals I am really impressed and the midfield seem spot on.

The left inside forward has been missing pretty much in all of the games so I switched him to advance playmaker to see if that brings him into the game. It has from what I have seen..will continue.

Are the days of `Alan Shearer` style 30 goals a season strikers a thing of the past in FM? Is is all Aguero style F9 and SS from now?

[Mr U Rosler]

Played afew games with the tweaks you have been making....drawn the first few games but have won the last three.

The right inside forward scores most of the goals I am really impressed and the midfield seem spot on.

The left inside forward has been missing pretty much in all of the games so I switched him to advance playmaker to see if that brings him into the game. It has from what I have seen..will continue.

Are the days of `Alan Shearer` style 30 goals a season strikers a thing of the past in FM? Is is all Aguero style F9 and SS from now?

Perhaps for now.Fashions change in football like anything.

Perhaps they will be back!

[MTM1977]

I will test with Roma.

It is a good team, but not the best in Serie A (media prediction 4th).

They have such a squad that i won't need to make many transfers, probably just one (their ST department is quite thin due to injuries).

I will make the changes Mr U Rosler suggested + remove the mark tighter command from CB's.

I will play around 15 serie A matches and let you know how it looks like.

I won't pay much attention to normal management, just make sure that everything somewhat works.

[Mr U Rosler]

I will test with Roma.

It is a good team, but not the best in Serie A (media prediction 4th).

They have such a squad that i won't need to make many transfers, probably just one (their ST department is quite thin due to injuries).

I will make the changes Mr U Rosler suggested + remove the mark tighter command from CB's.

I will play around 15 serie A matches and let you know how it looks like.

I won't pay much attention to normal management, just make sure that everything somewhat works.

Thanks for that.

Pretty sure you can choose 'close down less' for centre backs by the way.

[MTM1977]

Thanks for that.

Pretty sure you can choose 'close down less' for centre backs by the way.

Nope, just checked that

Not available for any duty for CB.

[Mr U Rosler]

Ok, thanks for confirming that,

[Eleanor_Rigby]

Played afew games with the tweaks you have been making....drawn the first few games but have won the last three.

The right inside forward scores most of the goals I am really impressed and the midfield seem spot on.

The left inside forward has been missing pretty much in all of the games so I switched him to advance playmaker to see if that brings him into the game. It has from what I have seen..will continue.

Are the days of `Alan Shearer` style 30 goals a season strikers a thing of the past in FM? Is is all Aguero style F9 and SS from now?

No, I just finished my first season as Fiorentina and I changed the front man to poacher as to accommodate Gomez and he bagged 38 goals in 34 league appearances. Gomez and Negredo are beastly when used properly. Gomez has always scored a shed load of goals in all my Fiorentina saves.

[the_gaffa]

With my Monaco side, I played my first game with this tactic (no tweaks at all) and we comfortably thrashed PSG 6-1 away from home! I had seven clear cut chances to their zero. Very satisfying!

Very early days, but a promising start non-the-less.

[Evilyoshi]

Played 4 Lost 4 at the moment with League 1 Wolves

Dominating general play, but missed sitter after missed sitter from my striker/Wingers is so bad its funny, but thats a ME fault.

[Evilyoshi]

Played 7 lost 7 now, and Im expected to win the league XD.

Sorry but I think Ill abandon this and start afresh, its not the tactics fault, just broken ME which turns professional footballers into guys who dont know what a goal net is.

[Mr U Rosler]

Played 7 lost 7 now, and Im expected to win the league XD.

Sorry but I think Ill abandon this and start afresh, its not the tactics fault, just broken ME which turns professional footballers into guys who dont know what a goal net is.

Sorry to hear that dude. Still working on tightening things up at the back. You should be scoring goals though.

Got a lot of ideas, just need to get the time to test them.

Think I'm gonna stop using Chelsea for testing as it looks like the quality of the players is papering over the cracks.

Maybe someone in the Everton, Southampton, Newcastle level is going to be better for me.

[MTM1977]

I am now playing match number 11 on my test. A few more and i post the results.

I have a few ideas about what to change...

[Jorgen]

Sorry to hear that dude. Still working on tightening things up at the back. You should be scoring goals though.

Got a lot of ideas, just need to get the time to test them.

Think I'm gonna stop using Chelsea for testing as it looks like the quality of the players is papering over the cracks.

Maybe someone in the Everton, Southampton, Newcastle level is going to be better for me.

You could also try Ajax, in the Dutch leagues. There's decent competition (Feyenoord, PSV, AZ, Twente, Vitesse); lots of teams that play variants of the 4-3-3; very decent players and a nice, special play-off at the end of the competition for the EL places. Perhaps that is a league worth for your testing.

[Timych]

Maybe someone in the Everton, Southampton, Newcastle level is going to be better for me.

I think, the team predicted to finish 8th-10th would be perfect.

[MTM1977]

Ok, i completed 15 matches with Roma, using the tweaks mentioned earlier.

Here are the stats:

My observations:

Attacking:

Problem: Too many shots missing the net.

Possible fix: Add "Shoot less often" to IF's, F9 and CM's.

Defending:

Problem: CB's play themselves out of position and open up a passing lane between them.

Possible fix: Remove "Hassle Opponents", Add "Close Down More" instructions to midfield / attack.

Problem: Too much space between FB/CB, again free lane for passing.

Possible fix: Remove "Stay Wider" from FB's. Also, might be worth thinking to use Defend duty on them, because they don't participate much in attacks anymore (IF's have taken their place on that).

Problem: Free kicks caused quite a few goals (not straight to goal, but hassles after a shot).

Possible fix: Nothing yet, probably something needs to be changed on marking etc.

What worked really well was defending corners. I only conceded 2 goals from corners in these matches.

That's what i can think of at the moment.

[Mr U Rosler]

I really appreciate that.

Bottom line is 18 goals conceded is too many.

Think I need ti get back ti my defensive roots,