someguy Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I know there has been a lot about this but, frankly, there's not much to discuss at the minute as we wait for details of the new game. All I'm saying is personally I would like to see the graphics side of the 2D slightly (and I emphasise the word slightly) enhanced. Just to give more of a feel of whats happening. Fair enough, there is TOO much talk about 3D and all that sort of stuff but this is strictly about ideas for for 2D and is a fair discussion. So, who agrees and any ideas on how? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benji!!!!! Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I agree..i'd love a manager's dot, just so i can see him run down the touchline when i score a 94th minute winner in the playoff final Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Thats another point which is already being discussed. what about the look of the players. Or yes I would like to see a change or No? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawntowardsthewater Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I think 3D would be a pile of ass and very difficult to implement ergo not at all worth it, I like the 2D engine I just wish it was a bit more detailed that's all! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsabbaggio Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Personally, I think the entire 2D graphics could be made much better. For a start, how about having stands about the pitch? Ok, you couldnt see the full stands, but it could at least look like you werent having a kick around in the park. Maybe even have some hoardings as well. You could have a tunnel that the team comes out to. Pitch invasions when you avoid relegation, get promoted, win something. And how about trophy presentations on the pitch? I would LOVE it if when you one something the commentary continued, each player got a medal then your captain lifted the trophy, then all those 2D dots went on a lap of honour. Also, maybe even throw in weather conditions as well? Ok, I know I might be getting childish, but anything that increases realism and makes the game more fun, without compromising the 2D graphics engine, could be considered surely?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 So thats 3 posts ,3 agreements. Nice. I am genuinely interested to see how many people are for this. With all the talk of 3D this is a subject that has been overlooked but would make the match experience hugely better. After all whats the best part of football? The match. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 It may sound like a small detail but even adding stuff like some more shadow on the players with give you more of a sense of height. Maybe even consider the option of tilting the overhead view. Champ man did it and although the colours and look of the icons etc was horrible it really does show you more. Its hard to explain why but it just does give you more of a feel of the passing and movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dankrzyz Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 My initial opinion is that I like the suggestion and the ideas given in this thread. At very least, it's nice to "freshen" up a game feature even if it's not fundamentally changing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebacid Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 3D is the only way to take this game forward to an another level. Just look at the game graphics on CM2009 3D engine and you'll get the idea. You can see it on youtube. The match experience will be huge!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Its one area that hasn't really changed in 4 years and it is key. Sure, the way it works has improved and its more realistic but not another year of the same look. Surely? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 3D is the only way to take this game forward to an another level. Just look at the game graphics on CM2009 3D engine and you'll get the idea. You can see it on youtube. The match experience will be huge!!! If they could get a 3d engine that worked perfectly, and I mean perfect, and looked amazing then yes. This is very hard to achieve though to be fair. Even if they had the new Fifa match, I'm still not sure it would be right and you can understand peoples concerns about losing some of the magic of the game. However some match simulation is definately required and an improved 2D would give even the most stubbon fm fan the chance to get even more feedback from their team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Yeah.....check this thread out! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex22 Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Yeah. i really like 2D, but its needs more individuality and personality.for example, stands unique to each stadium, goal celebrations better described, and a way to tell if a player has gone to ground(its increadably frustrating to see a dot standing still in the middle of the pitch, so i should be able to tell if he is down injured) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Yeah. i really like 2D, but its needs more individuality and personality.for example, stands unique to each stadium, goal celebrations better described, and a way to tell if a player has gone to ground(its increadably frustrating to see a dot standing still in the middle of the pitch, so i should be able to tell if he is down injured) Cool. A few features like stands etc wouldn't do any harm. I'm more for the concentration on player icons and all that stuff. You have to be careful. As soon as you mention things that sound "gimmicky" the FM faithful lose all interest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockie Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Personally, I think the entire 2D graphics could be made much better.For a start, how about having stands about the pitch? Ok, you couldnt see the full stands, but it could at least look like you werent having a kick around in the park. Maybe even have some hoardings as well. You could have a tunnel that the team comes out to. Pitch invasions when you avoid relegation, get promoted, win something. And how about trophy presentations on the pitch? I would LOVE it if when you one something the commentary continued, each player got a medal then your captain lifted the trophy, then all those 2D dots went on a lap of honour. Also, maybe even throw in weather conditions as well? Ok, I know I might be getting childish, but anything that increases realism and makes the game more fun, without compromising the 2D graphics engine, could be considered surely?? They are good points but I doubt there'll be in this year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 I really hope they've tweaked the look somehow this year. For me its one of the top things I am anticipating. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranjith Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 I posted loads of 2d movements that were still not represented in the ME. It got purged with all the other threads. Wonder where it is now? Thread Heaven? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Yep. I would of thought this would be one of the main areas people would want to improve but hey. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Criztian12 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I think it defeinetly needs more detail, especially for the more experienced FM players. I mean right now you see a dot moving towards another dot and one of the dot ends up going flying in the general direction of a third dot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 To be honest I am entirely happy with the 2D graphics as they are at the moment, subject to the criterion that what is on view infront of me matches as closely as possible what is actually going on of course! Anything more complex and snazzy than a circle with "feet" to represent a player would add nothing to my enjoyment of the game. A manager blob I also couldn't give a toss about. Seeing stands around the pitch might be a nice touch, but would necessitate the pitch itself being smaller which I'm not really in favour of for something that is cosmetic. Obviously I am not at all in favour of a 3d match engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I don't really see how the 2D could be improved to improve the actual matchplay. Anything that could be added would basically be cosmetic and have no real affect (or at least shouldn't have an effect), I like the idea of a manager dot, but I don't like the idea of stands if they are going to affect the pitch visuals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 To be honest I am entirely happy with the 2D graphics as they are at the moment, subject to the criterion that what is on view infront of me matches as closely as possible what is actually going on of course!Anything more complex and snazzy than a circle with "feet" to represent a player would add nothing to my enjoyment of the game. A manager blob I also couldn't give a toss about. Seeing stands around the pitch might be a nice touch, but would necessitate the pitch itself being smaller which I'm not really in favour of for something that is cosmetic. Obviously I am not at all in favour of a 3d match engine. I bet if they were to tilt the view slightly so you could see more of the height perspective, added a touch more shadow but kept the clean look of the current engine, not like CM's, you would change your mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I bet if they were to tilt the view slightly so you could see more of the height perspective, added a touch more shadow but kept the clean look of the current engine, not like CM's, you would change your mind. Wouldn't change my mind, tilting is a no, no from me and the 2D is perfect as it is IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 Wouldn't change my mind, tilting is a no, no from me and the 2D is perfect as it is IMO. Think of the possibilities. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Think of the possibilities. I have, and I know it could look great, but my concerns are based on the representation of the actual football. FM's 2D representation of an actual game i.e. the player movement, passing, following tactics is 100 times better than any 3D representation i've ever seen, including Pro Evo and Fifa. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 I have, and I know it could look great, but my concerns are based on the representation of the actual football. FM's 2D representation of an actual game i.e. the player movement, passing, following tactics is 100 times better than any 3D representation i've ever seen, including Pro Evo and Fifa. I agree. I don't want 3D. I don't want gimmicks. I don't want them too sacrifice game play and realism for looks. However circles from aerial view is wearing a bit thin. It has evolve just....just slightly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 But i'm not sure how it can evolve and not be 3D, even tilting the pitch would cause the dots to be 3D'ish. If they were going to do that then they may as well go the whole hog and make it completely 3D. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I wouldn't mind a tilted pitch if my team could always play downhill, but apart from that I can't see that it would add anything. If it ain't broke don't fix it - it can wear as thin as it likes for all I care - it works and it gives me as good an idea of what is happening as it can do really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter-evo Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 A 3D engine would be great but would it be realistic enough. If you look at all football games which are 3D you will notice that there are too many chances and goals for the time limit. In other words the games are made incredibly shorter. I say they stick with the same sort of engine and try and introduce 3D. NO great graphics, even less than LMA will do. But i think the quality of the engine is more important than how it looks. If they get the 2D perfect this year and then next year bring out a slightly 3D engine. But with CM going 3D and FifaM already being 3D we will need to step up soon and I say sooner rather than later Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 This might all be irrelevent as they may have changed it or even gone 3d for the next game. We'll find out soon enough. Anyone expecting to see a change? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I am expecting to see a change, but not looking forward to it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glamdring Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I'm expecting the announcement of a new 4D match engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveRH Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 I'm expecting the announcement of a new 4D match engine. It's already 4-D Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 I'm expecting the announcement of a new 4D match engine. Thats.........thats just crazy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rougess Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 some of the idea's above are brilliant, it's probably the one area of the game where SI can get away with making minor changes as opposed to overhauling the feature completely, and there won't be an uproar i'd much rather see 2D spruced up, than a dodgy 3D, and it seems that everyone's opinion is that 3D could be brilliant - if it's perfect, which it won't be (prove me wrong SI!). there's nothing significantly wrong with 2D that can't be fixed, so no need for a "revolutionary" change here imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nomis07 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Maybe it will be in 2D....but there is a set of 3D glasses in each box, which suddenly makes the game 3D and gives us all the choice Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FM1966 Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 For a start, how about having stands about the pitch? Ok, you couldnt see the full stands, but it could at least look like you werent having a kick around in the park. Maybe even have some hoardings as well. You could have a tunnel that the team comes out to. Pitch invasions when you avoid relegation, get promoted, win something. Don't see thia as very important. You also what it to be passible to have 'streakers' come on to the pitch? A clear dot running around like crazy.. ;-) Think we need to fucus on the important bits.. The game on the pitch. Next thing would be shops where druk dots walk around, fighting among blue and red fandots.. I would hate it.. ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 You see, the stuff about pitch invasions, dots jumping about when they win and all that stuff is exactly what I didn't want this thread to get on to. This is purely about enhancing the look of the player icons etc to make the match better in a tactical sense and to get more feed back. Maybe the reason why barely no notice is taken when it comes to the match engine graphics is because people think the people in favour of it are overspills from a Fifa manager enthusiasts club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainmosh Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 No need for 3D, would slow the game down, increase hardware requirements and for no real reason. Your mind fills in the blanks with the 2D engine much better than having a 3D engine could. Even dedicated 3D football games like FIFA and Pro Evo don't come close to capturing the feel in the 2D FM engine for me, so how could SI even come close? Not forgetting, as has already been mentioned, the 2D engine itself is still a long way from perfection, so work on that first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan,,, Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I read the first few posts, but there was something on cm4 i think, where when the players fall over, or the goalie dives, the spot becomes smaller, do you think this would be good? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nots Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 I read the first few posts, but there was something on cm4 i think, where when the players fall over, or the goalie dives, the spot becomes smaller, do you think this would be good? it couldnt hurt i dont think because at least it will give you an indication of whats happening rather than you thinking, 'WTF is he doing??/*?? and slamming the keyboard as you lose the CL final To the op, i think there should be general upgrades like you said... wouldnt mind a couple more events and stuff happpeninng around the pitch while the game is in progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrissawyer21 Posted August 30, 2008 Share Posted August 30, 2008 STAY 2D DEFINATLY 3d will make the game so much slower, and it wont look any better. Just improve the 2d pitch a bit, although im pretty happy with it as it is. Not much wrong with it in my opinion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robsabbaggio Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 Don't see thia as very important.You also what it to be passible to have 'streakers' come on to the pitch? A clear dot running around like crazy.. ;-) Think we need to fucus on the important bits.. The game on the pitch. Next thing would be shops where druk dots walk around, fighting among blue and red fandots.. I would hate it.. ;-) I never suggested silly things like streakers interrupting the game. I love the 2D match view, I certainly wouldnt want it changed. But the 2D view could still be improved to give a better atmosphere. Football takes place in stadiums with stands, trophies are presented and teams/fans celebrate when they win. Why cant this be represented in a football simulation? The match engine has been discussed to death, and I am sure SI are aware of the need for further improvements to the, for example, regens, board confidence and transfer system. But that shouldnt given them a free pass from making other improvements that wouldnt impact on other parts of the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crayons Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 I like your ideas Robsabbaggio, little things would make it feel more polished to me, I've always wanted to see the two managers on the touchline and being given trophies on the pitch would be neat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Right Hand Posted August 31, 2008 Share Posted August 31, 2008 You see, the stuff about pitch invasions, dots jumping about when they win and all that stuff is exactly what I didn't want this thread to get on to. This is purely about enhancing the look of the player icons etc to make the match better in a tactical sense and to get more feed back. I agree completely. When somebody mentions 3d alot people think of FIFA or PES and all the graphical fluff and jazz that goes with those titles. For me a proper, rotating pitch with well animated players (even if they are small) would be a big step forward. At the moment I feel we do not get enough feedback from the current 2d representation. As someone said earlier, we often see two dots run toward each other, wiggle for a few seconds, then one will go past the other. Was the attacking player doing stepovers, moving the ball from foot to foot, dropping his shoulder or was he just unsure and looking to lay the ball off? We can't really tell from the 2d and commentary most of the time. The most frustrating part about the 2d is the representation of goalkeepers. When they concede a goal sometimes the ball just seems to go straight through them - did it go through his legs, between his hands, was he simply outdone by the speed of shot or did the striker skillfully place it over him - it is often difficult to tell if my keeper was at fault or not. I would personally prefer the pitch to be just a little larger than the screen and to scroll with play (there could still be a little 2d overhead view in the corner so we knew where our other players were). This would create a bit more space on the pitch to see what is happening, especially in the crowded penalty areas. There seems to be a lot of decisions being made by the underlying match engine but using the 2d doesn't provide enough detail and feedback on this, so I often feel as if something is missing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 Its funny reading back this thread, Posted before the announcement of 3d. This is the way forward!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 No, the way forward is to enhance the 3-D view. In about two years no one actually cares about 2-D anymore. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmurfDude Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 No, the way forward is to enhance the 3-D view. In about two years no one actually cares about 2-D anymore. There are always those who get stuck in their ways and refuse to accept change, no matter how good the alternative is Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just-Wool Posted November 5, 2008 Share Posted November 5, 2008 To be honest, for a first incantation of the 3d engine, this is pretty good. 2d when it first arrived was a bit of a shambles, over the years look how it ended up. 3d will be just the same. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
someguy Posted November 5, 2008 Author Share Posted November 5, 2008 No, the way forward is to enhance the 3-D view. In about two years no one actually cares about 2-D anymore. What does that even mean? No one cares for 2d anymore? Alright, no one cares. There are always those who get stuck in their ways and refuse to accept change, no matter how good the alternative is There are also always those who jump on a bandwagon and give up on things. But whatever man, you like it, I don't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.