[FM14] FCUtdWill's English National League System - Level 11 - Released

[FCUtdWill]

Crashed tested my first season. Thankfully it doesn't crash dump when the season changing date passes.

Only minor problem so far is the team that won Sheffield Hallam County League Premier Division is playing in the Kent Invicta League and a few other teams have entered various leagues with questionable geographical positions.

I won't be able to get the regional boundaries 100% perfect, even when I set regional divisions and correct boundaries, there will be some clubs that move around.

Quick question. I am going to be starting a save with a Skrill South team. Should I use the default database or yours? Any significant changes made to the clubs and leagues that already come with the default database? (levels 1-6)

No major changes apart from full club names and competitions are without sponsors in their name. There's the full FA Cup/Trophy/Vase too.

Hi Will, Can you send it to me as well, just to make sure I'm not missing anything?

What do you want me to send you a PM with? If you're using my Level 11 file, it's already been fixed.

Hi all, I'm trying to add my local side, Chepstow Town and their rivals, Caldicot Town, into the Gloucester County league (level 11), replacing one of the reserve teams in that league and I keep getting the error: Teams in Local Leagues - Level 11 need to be assigned to either parent division or child division not both. As far as I can tell it is only assigned to the child division.

Has anyone encountered this before, or solved it?

Thanks.

I've not seen that error before. I don't know what to suggest, do you want to send me your file via PM and I'll see if I can fix it?

To add to this, I am going to start the save as the Concord Rangers since they are one of the worst in the Skrill North/South. In the default database, their value is 120K, in your database their value is 18K. What happened there?

I've just loaded my game up now down to Conf North/South and they have a value of £81.87k with a balance of £5.05k. I haven't changed any clubs' details in the leagues from Level 8 upwards in terms of balance/value.

[USMNT10]

I've just loaded my game up now down to Conf North/South and they have a value of £81.87k with a balance of £5.05k. I haven't changed any clubs' details in the leagues from Level 8 upwards in terms of balance/value.

That is odd though. I wonder what made it change. The default database has them valued as 120K and your database has them valued at 18K. Not that big of deal. Guess it just makes it more of a challenge starting a save with them valued that low.

[jam jameson]

I played the 42 team playoff and it worked a treat.

therefore it's ok, isn't it? i'm just starting a level 11 save and I was wondering about the playoff

[FCUtdWill]

therefore it's ok, isn't it? i'm just starting a level 11 save and I was wondering about the playoff

There aren't any problems with the play-off, it's working as it should do. It's the only thing I could do to get 17 promoted clubs from Level 11 to 10.

[Mr_Whippy]

Somehow this is hard to believe. http://i.gyazo.com/bc985aa2425d3c09a62ff751f5f10c1f.png

[jam jameson]

There aren't any problems with the play-off, it's working as it should do. It's the only thing I could do to get 17 promoted clubs from Level 11 to 10.

the play off is a great idea, look forward to play it (at least i hope...)...

[jam jameson]

Somehow this is hard to believe. http://i.gyazo.com/bc985aa2425d3c09a62ff751f5f10c1f.png

the attendance? it's quite low...

[Mr_Whippy]

Yeah, the attendance. 196!?

[jam jameson]

Yeah, the attendance. 196!?

quite surprising, did you check the attendance for the fa trophy and the fa cup final?

[jam jameson]

Yeah, the attendance. 196!?

the 2013 final had an attendance of around 17.000 people, maybe such a low figure is due to the low reputation of the competition

[FCUtdWill]

the 2013 final had an attendance of around 17.000 people, maybe such a low figure is due to the low reputation of the competition

The reputation is the same as Level 9 leagues, which have been increased from the default values.

[Mr_Whippy]

quite surprising, did you check the attendance for the fa trophy and the fa cup final?

Yes, 22,927 and 90,000 respectively.

[jam jameson]

Yes, 22,927 and 90,000 respectively.

maybe since the fa vase is a 'generated cup' it has a different attendance calculation??? maybe it's related to the attendance of the finalists?

[FCUtdWill]

maybe since the fa vase is a 'generated cup' it has a different attendance calculation??? maybe it's related to the attendance of the finalists?

What do you mean by generated cup?

[jam jameson]

What do you mean by generated cup?

it is not in the default database, is it?

[FCUtdWill]

it is not in the default database, is it?

It's in the default database, just not playable at game start as it requires Levels 9-10 clubs.

[fat Lion1]

Okay I'm really nit-pricking now, but it's Thorpe Hesley not Helsey haha

[jam jameson]

Hi Will i'm playing in the Wiltshire League (level 11), in the rules it says that only the last team is relegated, but in the League table i've got the last 5 spots red-coloured (as relegation spots), while in the other leagues it seems that the rules and the table are the same. is there a specific reason?

[FCUtdWill]

Hi Will i'm playing in the Wiltshire League (level 11), in the rules it says that only the last team is relegated, but in the League table i've got the last 5 spots red-coloured (as relegation spots), while in the other leagues it seems that the rules and the table are the same. is there a specific reason?

Hi mate, it's because about half of the Wiltshire League (including Division One) are reserve teams so it's saying all the reserve teams are getting relegated as they're in Level 10 and above. It's not a game-breaking bug.

[jam jameson]

Hi mate, it's because about half of the Wiltshire League (including Division One) are reserve teams so it's saying all the reserve teams are getting relegated as they're in Level 10 and above. It's not a game-breaking bug.

I'm Learning so much by using this update, really enjoying the non-League pyramid as nevere before...

[jWaSiMhE]

Hi Will i'm playing in the Wiltshire League (level 11), in the rules it says that only the last team is relegated, but in the League table i've got the last 5 spots red-coloured (as relegation spots), while in the other leagues it seems that the rules and the table are the same. is there a specific reason?

Hi mate, it's because about half of the Wiltshire League (including Division One) are reserve teams so it's saying all the reserve teams are getting relegated as they're in Level 10 and above. It's not a game-breaking bug.

That is not how it is in real life, but it is something Will has done to the file to I presume get rid of the reserves from level 10? unless it is an unwanted consequence (ie. a minor error)?

You can learn alot from the leagues about regional/local English football histories from the lower levels though. Some leagues at level 10 & 11 were once highly regarded leagues relative to where they are now.

[FCUtdWill]

That is not how it is in real life, but it is something Will has done to the file to I presume get rid of the reserves from level 10? unless it is an unwanted consequence (ie. a minor error)?

You can learn alot from the leagues about regional/local English football histories from the lower levels though. Some leagues at level 10 & 11 were once highly regarded leagues relative to where they are now.

What do you mean?

Out of the 14 clubs in the Premier Division, six are Reserves (or Youth), which are FC Chippenham Youth (affiliated to Chippenham Park), Corsham Town Reserves, Wilts Calne Town (Reserves of Calne Town), Vale of Pewsey (Reserves of Pewsey Vale), Devizes Town Reserves and Purton Reserves. In Division One, out of the 8 clubs, 4 are reserve teams and another is a development squad.

Chippenham, Calne, Pewsey all have different names because a Step 7 league can only have so many reserve teams (I think it's 4 for a 14-team league) and 14 is the minimum of clubs in a division.

[timtim11]

If I add this to my game will it intefere with my edited databse

[FCUtdWill]

If I add this to my game will it intefere with my edited databse

What have you edited?

[jWaSiMhE]

What do you mean?

Out of the 14 clubs in the Premier Division, six are Reserves (or Youth), which are FC Chippenham Youth (affiliated to Chippenham Park), Corsham Town Reserves, Wilts Calne Town (Reserves of Calne Town), Vale of Pewsey (Reserves of Pewsey Vale), Devizes Town Reserves and Purton Reserves. In Division One, out of the 8 clubs, 4 are reserve teams and another is a development squad.

Chippenham, Calne, Pewsey all have different names because a Step 7 league can only have so many reserve teams (I think it's 4 for a 14-team league) and 14 is the minimum of clubs in a division.

↓↓↓ whoops. I missed a quote out and referred to Level 10 instead of level 11.... ↓↓↓

I'm Learning so much by using this update, really enjoying the non-League pyramid as nevere before...

All I meant was that I didn't want to JJ to think that the mass relegation of the reserve teams was how the league runs in RL.

I am familiar with the setup of the divisions. No offense intended. :o

[FCUtdWill]

↓↓↓ whoops. I missed a quote out and referred to Level 11 instead of level 10.... ↓↓↓

All I meant was that I didn't want to JJ to think that the mass relegation of the reserve teams was how the league runs in RL.

I am familiar with the setup of the divisions. No offense intended. :o

Ah right, no worries mate, no offense taken

I've got a master spreadsheet with details about every club in the country, and which leagues feed where. I've enjoyed researching for the file over the last 12 months and as a fan of non-league football, I've learnt a lot of things

[fat Lion1]

Crash tested to February 2021 and came across these minor issues so far:

- The geography issue

- The FA Vase attendance issue

- The European Rankings are messed up. I.e Cutters United jumping 800 places despite finishing mid-table in Level 11 league

- Some teams don't actually get relegated from level 11 leagues, despite finishing in a relegation spot.

Those issues are very minor I must stress, for me anyway. I'll keep crash testing, but this is a really great file and when I eventually start playing I'll be safe in the knowledge that it aint going to crash dump or Manchester United are going to be in a level 10 league/county cup.

Nice work Will.

[jam jameson]

Crash tested to February 2021 and came across these minor issues so far:

- The geography issue

- The FA Vase attendance issue

- The European Rankings are messed up. I.e Cutters United jumping 800 places despite finishing mid-table in Level 11 league

- Some teams don't actually get relegated from level 11 leagues, despite finishing in a relegation spot.

Those issues are very minor I must stress, for me anyway. I'll keep crash testing, but this is a really great file and when I eventually start playing I'll be safe in the knowledge that it aint going to crash dump or Manchester United are going to be in a level 10 league/county cup.

Nice work Will.

Great support fat Lion 1, thank you very much, it is very helpful to know how does the update evolve through the years. two questions:

- does the european rankings relate with the club reputation? does this issue mean that in the second season Cutters United are able to attract high profile players?

- what about the progressing speed? i'm playing at level 11 and it takes age to progress a single day, i hope that being promoted to level 10 and thus de-activating the level 11 leagues it would speed up, what about in your test?

[winter57]

Nice work Will, THE BEST file for FM2014.

[FCUtdWill]

Crash tested to February 2021 and came across these minor issues so far:

- The geography issue

- The FA Vase attendance issue

- The European Rankings are messed up. I.e Cutters United jumping 800 places despite finishing mid-table in Level 11 league

- Some teams don't actually get relegated from level 11 leagues, despite finishing in a relegation spot.

Those issues are very minor I must stress, for me anyway. I'll keep crash testing, but this is a really great file and when I eventually start playing I'll be safe in the knowledge that it aint going to crash dump or Manchester United are going to be in a level 10 league/county cup.

Nice work Will.

Thank you for telling me about the issues you've found.

I won't be able to get the geography issues 100% sorted, but created clubs are more likely to stay in the same division season after season. I don't know what's happening to the FA Vase attendances, it's really strange.

I've seen some reputation changes in the higher leagues, but not at Level 11. By Cutters United improving 800 places, are they now higher than other clubs at higher levels?

Thank you for your positive words, there aren't any county cups available in the download, it's something I wanted to include but weren't working as intended.

- what about the progressing speed? i'm playing at level 11 and it takes age to progress a single day, i hope that being promoted to level 10 and thus de-activating the level 11 leagues it would speed up, what about in your test?

I sent you a PM the other day about the processing speed

[jam jameson]

Thank you for telling me about the issues you've found.

I won't be able to get the geography issues 100% sorted, but created clubs are more likely to stay in the same division season after season. I don't know what's happening to the FA Vase attendances, it's really strange.

I've seen some reputation changes in the higher leagues, but not at Level 11. By Cutters United improving 800 places, are they now higher than other clubs at higher levels?

Thank you for your positive words, there aren't any county cups available in the download, it's something I wanted to include but weren't working as intended.

I sent you a PM the other day about the processing speed

Great Will, i didn't see it, running to have a look, thank you!!!

[Niall76]

Great Will, i didn't see it, running to have a look, thank you!!!

This is what I meant the other day, Will when I asked you if you could pm it to me - suggestions for speeding up the processing speed. It takes ages on a single day for me too. Have tried unsubscribing from most things and minimal detail level.

[FCUtdWill]

This is what I meant the other day, Will when I asked you if you could pm it to me - suggestions for speeding up the processing speed. It takes ages on a single day for me too. Have tried unsubscribing from most things and minimal detail level.

Ahh right, I'll send you a PM now with some information, I thought you meant the modified FA Cup/FA Vase structure in my Level 10 file.

[Niall76]

Ahh right, I'll send you a PM now with some information, I thought you meant the modified FA Cup/FA Vase structure in my Level 10 file.

Ha! No worries. Thanks, Will!!

[fat Lion1]

Great support fat Lion 1, thank you very much, it is very helpful to know how does the update evolve through the years. two questions:

- does the european rankings relate with the club reputation? does this issue mean that in the second season Cutters United are able to attract high profile players?

- what about the progressing speed? i'm playing at level 11 and it takes age to progress a single day, i hope that being promoted to level 10 and thus de-activating the level 11 leagues it would speed up, what about in your test?

I don't think it does. The club reputation rankings seem pretty stable on this file and there is no level 11 - 9 club with an unrealistic high reputation. Cutters are still stuck in level 11 haha.

Not really had an issue with progressing speed, it's pretty much the same it was since I started crash testing at start of 13/14 season

Thank you for telling me about the issues you've found.

I won't be able to get the geography issues 100% sorted, but created clubs are more likely to stay in the same division season after season. I don't know what's happening to the FA Vase attendances, it's really strange.

I've seen some reputation changes in the higher leagues, but not at Level 11. By Cutters United improving 800 places, are they now higher than other clubs at higher levels?

Thank you for your positive words, there aren't any county cups available in the download, it's something I wanted to include but weren't working as intended.

I just realized it was co-efficient ranking I was talking about. When I filter it to include just English clubs, it includes the EPL clubs then skips the entire Football league and just goes to level 10 clubs and below. Maybe this is because I'm playing as level 11 club and there is a simple explanation for it. I can kind of understand now how Cutters shot so far up. Like I was saying to Jam though, club reputations seem stable and realistic.

Yeah regarding County Cups, I was referring to the cups in the league. Think it's just easier to refer to them as county cups.

Also there is no 'season summary' for England.

[FCUtdWill]

I just realized it was co-efficient ranking I was talking about. When I filter it to include just English clubs, it includes the EPL clubs then skips the entire Football league and just goes to level 10 clubs and below. Maybe this is because I'm playing as level 11 club and there is a simple explanation for it. I can kind of understand now how Cutters shot so far up. Like I was saying to Jam though, club reputations seem stable and realistic.

Yeah regarding County Cups, I was referring to the cups in the league. Think it's just easier to refer to them as county cups.

Also there is no 'season summary' for England.

Ah okay, on the clubs screen, is there an option to show all clubs? I've been able to see all clubs in a country before, and then look at their value, season ticket holders etc. I've had some problems with reserve teams improving to their first team's reputation. Some of them at Level 10 and below mostly win every game, which is a shame. But I do know a work-around, but means I would have to make the nation rules again.

Okay, why not call them league cups? County cups are different.

I've not noticed that, they usually happen after the game update day.

[fat Lion1]

Ah okay, on the clubs screen, is there an option to show all clubs? I've been able to see all clubs in a country before, and then look at their value, season ticket holders etc. I've had some problems with reserve teams improving to their first team's reputation. Some of them at Level 10 and below mostly win every game, which is a shame. But I do know a work-around, but means I would have to make the nation rules again.

Okay, why not call them league cups? County cups are different.

I've not noticed that, they usually happen after the game update day.

I will do now, I just assumed they were County Cups. Now I remember that you removed them.

When I click on the nation overview for England, there is no season summary for any of the seasons gone by. It's happen before on other files of this elk, so I might be doing something wrong or it's just a bug.

[FCUtdWill]

I will do now, I just assumed they were County Cups. Now I remember that you removed them.

When I click on the nation overview for England, there is no season summary for any of the seasons gone by. It's happen before on other files of this elk, so I might be doing something wrong or it's just a bug.

It's something I wanted to include, but would mean having to convert to advanced rules, and when I did that, my custom reserve leagues stopped working.

If you click on the world icon, on England, at the very bottom (underneath the U21/U18 leagues) there's the season summary. Does this appear on yours?

On that same icon, there's Domestic Clubs, can you view all the clubs there?

[fat Lion1]

It's something I wanted to include, but would mean having to convert to advanced rules, and when I did that, my custom reserve leagues stopped working.

If you click on the world icon, on England, at the very bottom (underneath the U21/U18 leagues) there's the season summary. Does this appear on yours?

On that same icon, there's Domestic Clubs, can you view all the clubs there?

When you say Domestic Clubs do you mean by clicking on the respective league then viewing the clubs in there? If so then yes. There isn't a 'Domestic Clubs' title as such to click.

As for season summary, sadly it isn't below the U18 leagues. Mystery.

[FCUtdWill]

When you say Domestic Clubs do you mean by clicking on the respective league then viewing the clubs in there? If so then yes. There isn't a 'Domestic Clubs' title as such to click.As for season summary, sadly it isn't below the U18 leagues. Mystery.

The Domestic Clubs section is when you click on the world icon. That's really strange about the season summary, how are you testing the file? On playable or view-only?

[fat Lion1]

The Domestic Clubs section is when you click on the world icon. That's really strange about the season summary, how are you testing the file? On playable or view-only?

I think I'm with ya on that one and I can only see EPL and FL clubs, nothing below that.

As for season summary it has happened to me before Will, maybe it is something I'm doing wrong. I've got it playable btw.

[jam jameson]

Ah okay, on the clubs screen, is there an option to show all clubs? I've been able to see all clubs in a country before, and then look at their value, season ticket holders etc. I've had some problems with reserve teams improving to their first team's reputation. Some of them at Level 10 and below mostly win every game, which is a shame. But I do know a work-around, but means I would have to make the nation rules again.

Okay, why not call them league cups? County cups are different.

I've not noticed that, they usually happen after the game update day.

Hi Will, regarding the two points:

- which cups are missing in your file? I understand that at lower level you usually have a 'league cup' (and i think we have it) and a 'fa cup' on a county basis, is this missing?

- the reserve reputation issue: i think it' not down to the reputation but the players they have, that improve as the senior team improve. I think that that's why some kind of dynamic at reserve level would be useful, which solution have you got in mind?

[FCUtdWill]

Hi Will, regarding the two points:

- which cups are missing in your file? I understand that at lower level you usually have a 'league cup' (and i think we have it) and a 'fa cup' on a county basis, is this missing?

- the reserve reputation issue: i think it' not down to the reputation but the players they have, that improve as the senior team improve. I think that that's why some kind of dynamic at reserve level would be useful, which solution have you got in mind?

Hi mate,

- Senior county cups are missing, I couldn't add them to the final version. All league cups down to Level 11 are included though.

- It only applies to the reserve teams playing in first team leagues, not reserve leagues. I'd be setting them up as first teams but then setting an affiliation between them. I won't be able to make any dynamic reserve leagues as they only go down to Level 6.

[bladesadviser]

Will

This really is an excellent piece of work. Just had the heartbreak of winning the league then losing in the play off semi final so another season at level 11 with 20 pm contacts etc

Just a couple of points that you maybe interested in

I have noticed that I have a South West League Charity Vase game in pre-season however the opponents are listed as ?

In my second season in the South West Peninsula League I have four new teams, one is Bridport Reserves which is fairly local however three further clubs from the Norwich area who were in the Anglian Combination last season have joined the league. I appreciate the geography issues that you mentioned earlier but its not like they are anywhere remotely near

Bizzarely the Anglian Combination looks correct except all the teams have the same blue badge!

Finally what are the rules for qualifying directly to the play off final or is it random? I rested players for the last game of the season with the title won but wondered if the three points I didn't get made me go in the semis

Again thanks for your hard work, the above are not an issue I am just curious

[FCUtdWill]

Will

This really is an excellent piece of work. Just had the heartbreak of winning the league then losing in the play off semi final so another season at level 11 with 20 pm contacts etc

Just a couple of points that you maybe interested in

I have noticed that I have a South West League Charity Vase game in pre-season however the opponents are listed as ?

In my second season in the South West Peninsula League I have four new teams, one is Bridport Reserves which is fairly local however three further clubs from the Norwich area who were in the Anglian Combination last season have joined the league. I appreciate the geography issues that you mentioned earlier but its not like they are anywhere remotely near

Bizzarely the Anglian Combination looks correct except all the teams have the same blue badge!

Finally what are the rules for qualifying directly to the play off final or is it random? I rested players for the last game of the season with the title won but wondered if the three points I didn't get made me go in the semis

Again thanks for your hard work, the above are not an issue I am just curious

Thank you for your positive comments.

The Charity Vase is for the winners of the two Division Ones in the South West Peninsula League, so the "draw" will have to be made despite you knowing your opponents. That's just the way it is, it's similar to the Community Shield.

Bridport Reserves should have stayed in the Dorset Premier League. I don't understand why they joined your league, which clubs joined? Level 12 clubs have no colours attached to them so that's why they've got blue badges.

The winners of each Level 11 league (or if a reserve team wins, the best first team) enter the playoffs, and then it's a random draw. How many points did you get compared to the rest of the leagues?

[bladesadviser]

With regards to the three teams from the Anglian Combination, it is Spixworth, Sheringham and Norwich CWSC which are all now in my league. At least Bridport is near!! I also noticed Wyndham from the same league are now in the West equivalent of my league

I finished with 56 points from 30 games but I haven't checked against rivals

Thanks again

[fat Lion1]

With regards to the three teams from the Anglian Combination, it is Spixworth, Sheringham and Norwich CWSC which are all now in my league. At least Bridport is near!! I also noticed Wyndham from the same league are now in the West equivalent of my league

I finished with 56 points from 30 games but I haven't checked against rivals

Thanks again

Not alone there mate, both of them teams ended up in my crash test file league. This one being Sheffield Hallamshire Premier Division.

[FCUtdWill]

With regards to the three teams from the Anglian Combination, it is Spixworth, Sheringham and Norwich CWSC which are all now in my league. At least Bridport is near!! I also noticed Wyndham from the same league are now in the West equivalent of my league

I finished with 56 points from 30 games but I haven't checked against rivals

Thanks again

Not alone there mate, both of them teams ended up in my crash test file league. This one being Sheffield Hallamshire Premier Division.

Spixworth, Sheringham and Wymondham Town are all from the Anglian Combination Premier so don't understand why they moved to the SWP when I've set the regional divisions and got boundaries set for Level 11. Norwich CEYMS got promoted from Division One.

I know I can never get it 100% perfect, but movements like this make it unrealistic

[fat Lion1]

Spixworth, Sheringham and Wymondham Town are all from the Anglian Combination Premier so don't understand why they moved to the SWP when I've set the regional divisions and got boundaries set for Level 11. Norwich CEYMS got promoted from Division One.

I know I can never get it 100% perfect, but movements like this make it unrealistic

Not your fault Will, due to how the editor is it can never be 100% perfect like you say. It isn't that big of an issue anyway, unrealistic yes. Gamebreaking, no.

[bladesadviser]

Spixworth, Sheringham and Wymondham Town are all from the Anglian Combination Premier so don't understand why they moved to the SWP when I've set the regional divisions and got boundaries set for Level 11. Norwich CEYMS got promoted from Division One.

I know I can never get it 100% perfect, but movements like this make it unrealistic

As I said it still a great file with plenty of enjoyment, looking around the leagues this seems to be the only real major example. Is the Anglian Premier a level 10 or level 11. Is there anything simple I can do to "swap" more local clubs into my league. I have never used the editor before so it would have to be simple!!!

Not a problem if nothing can be done