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Pairs & Combinations FM2015 - UPDATED


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On paper is their any obvious flaws that i may not be seeing in this 4-4-2 formation,

I've yet to decide on instructions as this is something I feel I will tailor depending on my opponents, weather etc..

Mentality - Standard, Balanced.

GK: G(D)

RB: FB(A)

CB: CD(D)

CB: CD(D)

LB: FB(S)

RM: W(S)

CM: CM(D)

CM: CM(S)

LM: WM(A)

ST: F9 (S) or (DLF (S) when my backup forward plays who has better strength.)

ST: AF (A)

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In your 41221 inside your guide, you have 5 players with attack duties, 3 with defend, 2 with support.

Is this balanced? I want to play with two IF(A) , what should the role of my RB and LB be?

The Balance rule should always have balance between (A) and (S) for each side of flank. Meaning if your AML (A) then DL (S) AND if AML (S) then DL (A).

When AML is (A) then DL should be (S): your DL covering your AML, AML crossing and attacking more (Hazard and A.Cole 2014)

When AML is (S) then DL should be (A): your DL is doing overlapping attacks, crossing more, dribbling more while your AML play safer (Bellerin and Chamberlain 2015)

5 attack and 3 defend mean your attack will be overloaded, exposed at the break or defense. I suggest max of 4 for attack.

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Enjoyed reading this. Hope to apply some of it to my game later

If you read llama3 pdf guide, his 41221 has the two full backs as wing back attacks, the wingers as inside forwards attack with a cm on attack duty.The striker a false 9 so on support.He recommends there to have 5 on attack,3 on defend and 2 on support,(outfield players).

This confuses me as a mod basically says it's ok to have 5 attack duties and others don't.

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If you read llama3 pdf guide, his 41221 has the two full backs as wing back attacks, the wingers as inside forwards attack with a cm on attack duty.The striker a false 9 so on support.He recommends there to have 5 on attack,3 on defend and 2 on support,(outfield players).

This confuses me as a mod basically says it's ok to have 5 attack duties and others don't.

(sorry if there are mistakes, I am learning english :D )

If you use attack duties in all the front players there will be a problem.

BUT, If the attack duties are well placed there is no need to be a problem. In this case the wingbacks gives widht, the wingers attacks the back of the false 9, the attacking cm provides central threat and the CMd, CMs and F9s manage the play.

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Just had a quick look into this thread - great work Llama.

After following your 4-1-2-3 advice, I went from struggling with a few 1-0s here and there to beating West Ham 4-0 away :cool:

They are bottom of the league but it's early in the season so hopefully this isn't a one off.

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Hey guys,

Hoping to get some advice on ways i can perhaps improve my tactics.

Currently i have my team setting up in a 4-2-3-1 with a control mentality which sometimes becomes attacking at home, with a flexible team shape.

I dont use any TIs or PIs as i feel they can complicate things a bit much.

The basic way i want to play is using my ST and AML as my goalscorers with the AMC and AMR/LB supplying the ammuntion. The two CMs are there to provide stability and ball retention while the remaning backs keep the opposition at bay.

Roles are as such

GK - SK(s)

LB - FB(s)

LCB - CD(d)

RCB - CD(d)

RB - WB(a)

LCM - CM(d)

RCM - CM(d)

AML - IF(a)

AMC - AP(s)

AMR - W(s)

ST - AF(a)

The roles feel balanced to me but perhaps someone out there can see something i dont.

Thanks again :)

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I would say one of your midfielders should be set to attack or at least a supporting role such as DLP or BBM - don't need two CMs on defend. Advanced forward on his own often becomes isolated. I'd change him to a different role, such as complete forward and try having your AM attacking.

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I'm looking to emule the brendan rodgers system from 2013 (with Sturridge and Suarez)... but Im having a hard time scoring goals.

At the present time my tactic is:

------T(A)------CF(A)-------

----------AP(A)--------------

----B2B(S)-----DLP(S)------

-WB(S)--------------WB(S)-

-BPD(D)---CD(D)---BPD(D)-

----------GK(D)-------------

In some matches the players are ~6.8 ratings but no goals... just now, draw with reading...

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Not sure we used 3 CBs in 2013? It was more a 433 with Sterling (S) and Sturridge (A) as IFs and Suarez a CF (A).

With your current set up you need more attacking input from your wing backs and maybe set your CF as support/use a DLF (S).

What TIs do you use?

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I am playing with a club where I have no finances to improve the squad, so I have to play with what I've got.

So far it's:

GK - GK (D)

DR - FB (S)

DC - CD/LD (D)

DC - CD/LD (D)

DL - FB (S)

DMC - DM (D)

MC - CM (D)

MC - AP (S/A)

AMR - W (S/A)

AML - IF (A)

ST - F9 (S)

It's very different from what I am used to, and I would like some advice on how to improve/alter this. I know it's not much to go on, but some general tactical advice would be greatly appreciated.

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I am playing with a club where I have no finances to improve the squad, so I have to play with what I've got.

So far it's:

GK - GK (D)

DR - FB (S)

DC - CD/LD (D)

DC - CD/LD (D)

DL - FB (S)

DMC - DM (D)

MC - CM (D)

MC - AP (S/A)

AMR - W (S/A)

AML - IF (A)

ST - F9 (S)

It's very different from what I am used to, and I would like some advice on how to improve/alter this. I know it's not much to go on, but some general tactical advice would be greatly appreciated.

General gist is that you lack penetration through the team. You should ideally be playing a Support/Attack on 1 flank and Attack/Support on the other if you're not sure how to proceed. You have no real forward running on either flank. The only real directness is the IF(A) but he comes inside. You have no overlap on the left because the full back is too reserved. Your central midfield is far too defensive, get your CM(D) to do something more with the ball. Either a BBM, RP, or even a DLP would at least help offer some more positive use of the ball. A CM(A) & AP(S) partnership could be effective, especially with a false nine vacating space for someone to run into.

Apologies if this has already been asked/ done, but if this going to be updated for FM2016?

No - it is all relevant and applies directly. There are no new tactical roles that require discussion.

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General gist is that you lack penetration through the team. You should ideally be playing a Support/Attack on 1 flank and Attack/Support on the other if you're not sure how to proceed. You have no real forward running on either flank. The only real directness is the IF(A) but he comes inside. You have no overlap on the left because the full back is too reserved. Your central midfield is far too defensive, get your CM(D) to do something more with the ball. Either a BBM, RP, or even a DLP would at least help offer some more positive use of the ball. A CM(A) & AP(S) partnership could be effective, especially with a false nine vacating space for someone to run into.

No - it is all relevant and applies directly. There are no new tactical roles that require discussion.

I feel I should reply, as I use a similar formation as the person you quoted. People told me (RT Herringbone and Dr. Hook) that I needed to solidify my formation, because apparently offensive wingers and a combo of BWM-BBM on Support cause gaps to form. Here is the thread with my formations. http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/443944-Getting-wrecked-by-teams-I-should-be-dominating-weak-defense

Is there another way of solidifying the defensive side of things, if setting up a conservative midfield would leave me too sterile up front?

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Hi all,

I'm trying to implement a 4-2-3-1, but I'm having trouble in the defence... the CD are always in trouble with 2 mens or 3 in front of them, without the CM accomplish to provide a decent cover....

I’m using a Control 4-2-3-1 with a fluid mentality. I’m trying to implement lower tempo, short pass, work ball into box, slightly higher defensive line and asking to the players to get stuck in, so we can win the ball sooner.

This is the line up:

-----------------------------

GK(D): Silvestri

Wingback (A): Sam Byram/Belardi

CD©: Belusci/Wootton

CD(B): Cooper/Bamba

FB(S): Taylor/Gaston

-----------------------------

CM(D) and CM(S): Mowatt/Murphy/Adeyemi and Cook/Bianchi

AP(A) (as an AMC): Sloth/Labyad

AMR and AML: Dallas/Erwin and Botaka/Gelson Martins

-----------------------------

AF(A): Wood/Antenucci/Seager

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Hi all,

I'm trying to implement a 4-2-3-1, but I'm having trouble in the defence... the CD are always in trouble with 2 mens or 3 in front of them, without the CM accomplish to provide a decent cover....

Are you finding that there is space between your CDs that is getting exploited, such as the BPD pushed up a bit and the cover dropped back?

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I’ve had some success with:

GK - GK (D)

DR - CWB (A)

DC - CD(D)

DC - CD (D)

DL - CWB (A)

DMC - HB (D)

MC - CM (S)

MC - CM (A)

AMR - IF (A)

AML - IF (A)

ST - F9 (S)

Seems to work really well, although I think the midfield three could be tweeked.

Thoughts?

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Hi,

Couple of questions regarding the tactic i'm trying to implement in Benfica (playing to win the league).

I really like the 4123 DM Wide formation, so i'm trying to build from that. this is mine formation/role/duty:

GoalKeeper (d)



Full Back Right (a)_____Central Defender (d)_____Central Defender d)_____Full Back Left (a)

Defensive Midfielder (d)

Deep Lying Midfielder Right (s)_______________Central Midfielder Right (a)

Raumdeuter Right (a)_________________________________________Advanced Playmaker Left (s)

Deep Lying Forward (a)

I play with "Control" mentality mainly because i have so many players with attack duty. The Team Shape is fluid to try to bring the attacking to more defensive duty.

I play with a slight narrow formation to try to exploit the flanks with my two full backs (exploit the flanks and try to overlap instructions).

A coulpe of thing i have some doubts:

1) Is the Full Back (a) - Raumdeuter a good combo? I have the deep Lying Midfielder on the same side to try to balance things, but should i go with a diffente kind of player? The idea is to have lot's of space for my full back to go and cross by line.

2) Is there a problem having the Advanced Playmaker (s) and the Central Midfielder (a) on the same side? Could there be a conflict because of the fowards runs of the central midfielder and the tendency for the advanced playmaker to cut inside? Could a Box-to Box Midfielder be a better choice?

3) Is the Deep Lying Forward the best choice for my striker? I believe so, because it will give some space for the movements of my central midfielder and the Raumdeuter.

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1.) For a Control mentality 5 attacking roles are way too much. I would play with 2 or 3 of them.

2.) The space in front of the AM left could be rather condensed as there are probably the CM(A), the AP(S) and the DF(A) inside.

As the winter is approaching the players will enjoy the cosy feeling ;)

3.) Your right flank seems defensively rather soft. Not tackler at all there!

Hi,

Couple of questions regarding the tactic i'm trying to implement in Benfica (playing to win the league).

I really like the 4123 DM Wide formation, so i'm trying to build from that. this is mine formation/role/duty:

GoalKeeper (d)



Full Back Right (a)_____Central Defender (d)_____Central Defender d)_____Full Back Left (a)

Defensive Midfielder (d)

Deep Lying Midfielder Right (s)_______________Central Midfielder Right (a)

Raumdeuter Right (a)_________________________________________Advanced Playmaker Left (s)

Deep Lying Forward (a)

I play with "Control" mentality mainly because i have so many players with attack duty. The Team Shape is fluid to try to bring the attacking to more defensive duty.

I play with a slight narrow formation to try to exploit the flanks with my two full backs (exploit the flanks and try to overlap instructions).

A coulpe of thing i have some doubts:

1) Is the Full Back (a) - Raumdeuter a good combo? I have the deep Lying Midfielder on the same side to try to balance things, but should i go with a diffente kind of player? The idea is to have lot's of space for my full back to go and cross by line.

2) Is there a problem having the Advanced Playmaker (s) and the Central Midfielder (a) on the same side? Could there be a conflict because of the fowards runs of the central midfielder and the tendency for the advanced playmaker to cut inside? Could a Box-to Box Midfielder be a better choice?

3) Is the Deep Lying Forward the best choice for my striker? I believe so, because it will give some space for the movements of my central midfielder and the Raumdeuter.

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Some minor tweeks and my team instead of being fighting for relegation was fighting for promotion!

Of course my three best players(playmaker, winger and striker) all get injured for the final games and form suffers.

Used a 4-1DM-2CM-2W-1, and was lacking the roles to create movement between lines and the back four cover.

So after understanding that a ball winning midfielder does not give the proper cover to the back four, I changed it to a defensive midfielder, better results defensively.

Getting the proper roles in midfield, one defend, one attack and one extra that I choose support, so BBM(s) and AP(A) meant my midfielders moved up to support the attack, and my lone striker was switchded to a DLF, and the goals and better ratings form my more advanced players improved.

So many thanks for the wonderfull guide.

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  • 2 weeks later...

4231.I've made 3 sets of 4231 based tactics.1 for strong favourites,1 favourite and 1 for underdog.They are posession based tactics as it's the football i like to play.

strong favourite

SK DEF

WB S

CD C

CD D

WB A

CM S

DLP D

W A

T A

IF S

AF A

favourite

SK DEF

WB S

CD C

CD D

WB A

W A

CM S

DLP D

WM S

T A

AF A

underdog

SK DEF

WB S

CD C

CD D

WB A

DM S

DLP D

W A

WM S

T A

AF A

team instructions on all are the same control in a highly structured system along with

retain posession

shorter passing

play out of def

work into box

be more expressive

roam from positions

lower tempo

close down much more.

I have got the striker as AF A as i want him to be the main goal scorer,but is it 1 to many attacking duties and also become very isolated.Maybe change to DLF S?

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  • 2 weeks later...

LLAMA: Your strategy advice in your guide, is that still the same? I.E. playing "Counter or Standard" away from home to be more cautious? And "Control" at home? I've read from Radhidi that Counter works more like it should in FM16 and when he plays "Defensive" it locks down better. I just wondered if any of your ideas have changed?

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  • 2 weeks later...
Is there anyway to download this guide so I can read it offline?

Did you not check the very first post? Those are the download links............

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Yeah I did, but there is no way to download it just keeps opening in a media fire web page

And at the very top in very big letters of that page it says DOWNLOAD.

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There is no download button for me, thanks for the sarcasm... Er I mean help :)

It's not sarcasm so no need to be clever......I'm trying to help you so no need to act the arse. This shows up on all browsers.

vZOnyGa.png

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Have you made any changes to your approach in FM16? I am struggling a bit. Struggling to score goals when using my control system. When playing away from home using my counter system I seem to be inviting to much pressure. When I push up and close down more in either set-up I get torn apart.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Have you made any changes to your approach in FM16? I am struggling a bit. Struggling to score goals when using my control system. When playing away from home using my counter system I seem to be inviting to much pressure. When I push up and close down more in either set-up I get torn apart.

If this is happening then the problem isn't the mentality you're picking. It's the tactic overall.

Try this for starters: Next time you've got a match where your team isn't heavily favored (or not favored) aka a balanced match up, try using one of FM's default tactics without changing 1 single thing. Literally just go with standard/flexible and whatever roles/duties the formation has by default. Watch the match carefully, see how the players move around, and take a few mental notes (or real notes if you prefer) of what's happening.

I think this will help you better understand why you're struggling. It's helpful to start off with a clean slate and see how things play out. But, also, you have to see if your team is actually doing what you envision they should be doing. If they're not, why? And can you fix it?

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If this is happening then the problem isn't the mentality you're picking. It's the tactic overall.

Try this for starters: Next time you've got a match where your team isn't heavily favored (or not favored) aka a balanced match up, try using one of FM's default tactics without changing 1 single thing. Literally just go with standard/flexible and whatever roles/duties the formation has by default. Watch the match carefully, see how the players move around, and take a few mental notes (or real notes if you prefer) of what's happening.

I think this will help you better understand why you're struggling. It's helpful to start off with a clean slate and see how things play out. But, also, you have to see if your team is actually doing what you envision they should be doing. If they're not, why? And can you fix it?

Thank you. I may come back for some advice lol. I've started read THOG's guide properly and that is helping.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi guys! Im playing with Sochaux in Ligue 2 and I put up this formation based on the players I have:

-----------------F9(S)----------------

----RMD(A)------------EG(A)-------

---------CM(D)----------------W(S)-

----------------DLP(S)---------------

-WB(S)---CD(D)---BPD(X)---FB(S)-

----------------GK(D)---------------

Im looking for advice that can improve my formation and make it more balanced.

Im conserned about my midfield setup since my W(S) is very poor at defending and is more suited to play as IF in a AMR position. He is very fast and likes to run with ball often so he can be a attacking weapon even in W(S) role. My DLP(S) is very good both and defending and passing. CM(D) is a allround midfielder that likes to play through balls.

Im not sure how well my attack setup is. The thought is that F9(S) pulls back and make space for RMD(A) who is a striker playing wide and my EG(A) who is my best tecnical player. On the right flank I can get support from my W(S) who is a fast attacking winger. However Im afraid of having a gap in midfield and that is unbalanced.

I still need to set up the rest of the instructions. My team is great at passing, first touch, technique, work rate and teamwork. Defence is poor at pace/acell so a high def line can be risky.

Overtime I woud like to make a high pressing tactic somthing like Pochettino and Klopp use, but right now I dont think I have the players for high press game.

Anny suggestions?

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Hi,

I have a question regarding my tactic and the way that would be more logical, and balanced, to assign my players roles.

So i play in a 4123DM wide formation, with the following setup:

DLF(s)



AP(s)________________________IF(a)

MC(a)__________DLP(s)

DM(d)

WB(a)____CD(d)____CD(d)____WB(s)

For my wide position i go with a AP(s)-WB(a) in the left side and a WB(s)-IF(a) in the right and i'm quite happy with it. But, i have some doubts in my midfield combo.

I play with a MC(a) on the right and a DLP(s) on the left, because i thought my attack would be more balanced with a Support-Attack-Support-Attack combination:

AP(s)________________________IF(a)



MC(a)__________DLP(s)

But this lead to potential risky situation in my defence because i have the MC(a) and the WB(a) on the same side.

After reading the pairs&combinations document, i still couldn't be 100% clarify.

So, should i swap my two midfielders, so that the attacking midfield stay on the opposite side of my attacking wingback, or should i keep the way it is so that my attack keep the Support-Attack-Support-Attack combination?

Because the tactic have a defensive player in the DM position, could this mean that i can play my two midfielders the way i want, and in this case having my attacking midfielder on the same side of my attacking wingback?

Thks for any reply.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Dernerner so here are a couple of formations I'm working on in theory, and haven't actually tried yet.

CF (S) -------------



----------------------- AP (A) ------------- IF (A)

--- B2B (S) ---- CM (D) ---- RPM (S)

WB (S) ---- CD (D) ---- CD (D) ---- WB (S)

GK (D)

Control/Structured

Lower Tempo

Close Down Much More

Play out of Defence

Retain Possession

Whipped Crosses

Roam from Positions

Then there's...

DF (S)



AM (A) ---- AM (S)

CM (S) ---- CM (D) ---- CM (A)

WB (S) ---- CD (D) ---- CD (D) ---- FB (S)

GK (D)

Standard/Very Fluid

Slightly Deeper Defensive Line

Exploit the Middle

Dribble Less

Be more Disciplined

...aaaaaaaand finally....

DF (S)



IF (S) ---- SS (A) ---- W (A)

RPM (S)

A (D)

WB (A) ---- CD (D) ---- CD (D) ---- FB (S)

Standard/Fluid

Higher Tempo

Play Narrower

Get Stuck In

Pass into Space

Shorter Passing

Work Ball into Box

Dribble Less

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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Is LLAMA still on the forum?
Yes.....

Yes, but not much nowadays. Been promoted twice in the last year, got married, and work is crazy busy. So don't have much time anymore.

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Yes, but not much nowadays. Been promoted twice in the last year, got married, and work is crazy busy. So don't have much time anymore.

Congratulations. I have 10month old twins so I know how life can take over:)

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