Looking to tighten it up before the wheels fall off

[santy001]

The 'problems' have not manifest themselves yet but I can see the potential for problems. My Stoke team are playing well after adopting a new tactic, I spent the previous (2nd) season using the Arrigo Sacchi 4-4-2, it saw me concede just 39 goals but only score 34 leading to a 13th place finish, the first season my own take on a 4-4-2 had seen me finish 12th scoring 52 and conceding 60. I liked the defensive aspect of the Arrigo Sacchi 4-4-2 so I decided to bring across the ideas of a high defensive line, hassling opponents and using a sweeper keeper behind. The CB's had their role simplified to just defenders, and the fullbacks to complete wing backs so they would attack more. The defending has as a result been solid still, I've moved the whole of the midfield up so the 2 DM's are now CM's and the ML/MR occupy the AML/AMR spots.

Here's the formation:

I've changed all of the player roles apart from the sweeper keeper but here is the current run of fixtures and it has been a success - so far:

There are some issues though, the goals have come through Lucas Pratto (Deep lying forward) and Brek Shea (Left inside forward). In the league the other striker position has largely been of no effect, despite trying Seydou Doumbia, Mame Diouf and Darren Bent there. The false 9 seems to open teams up a bit more than the other options I tried which were Trequartista - where games passed the player by, Deep Lying Forward - which was then too similar to the other striker and less effective overall and Complete Forward - which still saw the striker largely ineffective. (Doumbias average in the league is 6.82 with 0 goals in 5 games, he has been scoring in cup games against lower level opposition however, 3 goals in 2 games)

The assists are coming from the striker and inside forwards, and the left back, all on 2 assists a piece (Assaidis are from corners however, not open play). Despite being of the same set up though Oussama Assaidi, Ricardo Quaresma and Michael Kightly have all failed to impress over on the right side, whilst Adam Smith as the CWB on the right has also failed to provide much in attack. Meaning attacking down the left has been a source of success more often than not. The last couple of games however the team has been reaching the point where there's a lot of shots but a lot are long range or not decent chances with CCC's down to just 1 or 2 a game, despite getting goals.

The two central midfielders, Capoue and Livermore (with Odil Ahmedov and Charlie Adam as cover) are not making mistakes but only getting middling averages, they don't stand out for anything positive or negative - that's not necessarily a bad thing but after 7 games neither of them have scored or got an assist and that does stand out a little.

It's working but not necessarily for the right reasons and that means I'm just on borrowed time I feel. The teams aim is only a mid-table finish, but I could get higher as the team is demonstrating. I'm generally looking to bring a bit more balance to the team instead of relying on two players/positions for goals. I also feel if the midfielders were able to contribute a little more in some way the team would be extremely solid.

[kazm]

Both your MC's will be all over the place, instead of staying where they need to be: in the centre. You need 2 holding midfielders like with a 4231 tactic. I'd change one to DLP-s, the other to MC-d. Be sure to look at their ppms though.

I would change the AMR to support so will move in the space between the mc and the DLF.

[Gruf]

Looks far too attacking for a base formation.

As mentioned two BWM in Midfield is asking for trouble. They are going to be chasing around trying to tackle anything that moves, they provide little protection for your back 4, who, while we're at it, are fairly attacking themselves, two WB's?

If you have to play this formation I would change one of the BWM to DM with a defensive role and the other to MC with an Auto role. I would have a FB and a WB but tone down their roles, and maybe change one of the IF to a Wide Midfielder (everyone running inside where you already have two forwards is trouble) and change his role so he at least comes back and defend a bit.

I also don't like to have two CD, I like different roles so one is always on the cover for the other.

Just saying.

[santy001]

I think you may be right Gruf, I know against Arsenal I nearly came undone (good second half come back for a draw) and Man City slaughtered me. However, since I adopted Kazm's changes it has been a lot more solid (for the Everton game), but I have conceded a rather sloppy goal each game - mainly due to a Butland error which suggests I may need to make use of Valdes a bit more still.

Here's the fixtures for the season so far though, only two bad defeats to Man City where I couldn't get into the game at all.

[Gruf]

Well, you seem to be doing just fine judging by those results!!

My advice, don't change anything

[RTHerringbone]

Interesting to see you stick a few friendlies in whilst the season is in progress. Is the plan just to whack a few goals in and secure a morale boost?

What sort of squad are you using in these games? Presumably this is when international games are on - aren't you affected much by call-ups?

[noikeee]

He's using 7 heavily specialized roles - F9, 2xIFs, 2xBBMs and 2xCWBS - and very fluid. Vastly overachieves with Stoke. I'm starting to believe less and less on that well accepted theory of specialized roles = rigid, non-specialized = fluid...

[RTHerringbone]

He's using 7 heavily specialized roles - F9, 2xIFs, 2xBBMs and 2xCWBS - and very fluid. Vastly overachieves with Stoke. I'm starting to believe less and less on that well accepted theory of specialized roles = rigid, non-specialized = fluid...

The only nailed on specialist is the False Nine, with BBM and CWB being borderline.

As such, Very Fluid arguably fits the general "rule".

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/366111-How-to-Play-FM14-A-Twelve-Step-Guide

[SnUrF]

The only nailed on specialist is the False Nine, with BBM and CWB being borderline.

As such, Very Fluid arguably fits the general "rule".

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/366111-How-to-Play-FM14-A-Twelve-Step-Guide

But if you count the BBMs and CWBs as 0,5 you end up with 3 specialists, so it would mean standard or rigid. but then again "Please note that these are my interpretations and not hard, fast rules. If you disagree and/or want to be more creative, fire away." as wwfan so neatly puts it.

-SnUrF

[kazm]

But if you count the BBMs and CWBs as 0,5 you end up with 3 specialists, so it would mean standard or rigid. but then again "Please note that these are my interpretations and not hard, fast rules. If you disagree and/or want to be more creative, fire away." as wwfan so neatly puts it.

-SnUrF

You cannot really count like that. But think about it. BBMs are fluid by nature, so are CWB's. They are 'complete' roles that need to do pretty much everything at least a bit.

That's how i see it at least.

[SnUrF]

You cannot really count like that. But think about it. BBMs are fluid by nature, so are CWB's. They are 'complete' roles that need to do pretty much everything at least a bit.

That's how i see it at least.

Perhaps so, but I was merely pointing out what wwfan says in the 12 step guide. "I generally suggest the following as a good rule of thumb (consider the either/or roles as 0.5)", perhaps he got this bit wrong.

-SnUrF

[THOG]

It's also worth noting that this tactic is absolutely insane and simply involves sending everyone but the centrebacks forward for 90 minutes straight. I would say this is simply indicative of the AI not making context-appropriate tactical changes. A decent human manager would have no problem picking this tactic apart.

[SnUrF]

It's also worth noting that this tactic is absolutely insane and simply involves sending everyone but the centrebacks forward for 90 minutes straight. I would say this is simply indicative of the AI not making context-appropriate tactical changes. A decent human manager would have no problem picking this tactic apart.

Absolutely agree with that. With all that I've read here I'd say the tactic simply couldn't work, but looking at the fixtures pic and all the green balls it seems to be doing ok to say the least.

-SnUrF

[Auqakuh]

Maybe change your DLF to support and Doumbia to Advanced Forward; he has the composure and concentration for timing runs well, provided there's someone tasked with feeding him.

Another option, though, would be leaving Pratto as-is, and setting Doumbia to a Defensive Forward. I know he lacks the attributes in terms of tackling, marking, positioning, etc, but if you set him to Attack, and then give him the instructions "ease off tackling", (maybe "mark tighter", depending on how you want him to press), and "run with ball more often", he can be a kind of high energy hassling attacker who takes advantage of the errors that high pressing systems generally cause. A kind of poacher/df rolled into one. He doesn't have to win the ball back to be effective, either, just close down space and be disruptive - since you're pressing hard anyway, it just means the opposing team will either be forced into rash clearances or errors. And if he does win it back high up the pitch, that's great, because his pace means he'll be a real threat running on the ball, especially against a team that's in the transitional phase.

Since he's on a huge goal drought, you might think about setting him to take penalties whenever you're in front and it's not too great a loss if he misses. A goal is a goal, and he might just need one to get going. He's not too bad at them and has good composure, so he should slot it away anyway.

Also, there's no real reason why two BBMs in midfield shouldn't work, so long as they're agile, quick, have good stamina, concentration, and positioning/off the ball. With very fluid set, it means the players will "swap positions" in a pivot. Sort of like always having a CM/D and a CM/S that can also be a CM/A, depending on phase. Indeed, the "very fluid" might be the thing that makes it work at all, since it demands they be more aware defensively.

[santy001]

Interesting to see you stick a few friendlies in whilst the season is in progress. Is the plan just to whack a few goals in and secure a morale boost?

What sort of squad are you using in these games? Presumably this is when international games are on - aren't you affected much by call-ups?

7 or 8 players get called up, the rest of the squad is then sat fairly idle for 2 weeks so I arrange a friendly to keep them match fit - as well as chance for a game for those who haven't been involved in the last couple of matches. Only do it during the international breaks, its a chance to experiment slightly with formations just to see how it plays out as well.

Fortunately none of the strikers are on a goal drought, every couple of games I alternate the partnerships/positions and basically whoever is at the DLF position is getting goals so its keeping everyone happy up front. I'm going to try Doumbia (Well Diouf in his absence due to injury) as a defensive forward because a lot of opponents sit back against my side and I don't think there is much chance of getting success when trying to get a striker beyond the last man/in behind the defence.

Also, I've now played each of the top 4 from last season:

Arsenal 2-2 Draw.

Man City 3-0 defeat and a 2-1 defeat.

Chelsea 3-0 defeat.

Man Utd 4-0 defeat.

It's not come unstuck against other sides, I'm still unbeaten against the other sides as I reach the 19 game mark. The Arsenal game was a lucky comeback, but in the other 4 games my side have quite soundly been dealt with.

[THOG]

Absolutely agree with that. With all that I've read here I'd say the tactic simply couldn't work, but looking at the fixtures pic and all the green balls it seems to be doing ok to say the least.

-SnUrF

It's essentially a Brazilian 4-2-4 with the false nine playing the Zagallo role instead of one of the wingers. It works because the smaller AI sides aren't (a) using an extra defender to cancel out the 4-man forward line (i.e., the sweeper solution) or (b) aggressively pressing the two midfielders to prevent them from comfortably picking out a tidy pass to any of the four forwards. I'm guessing it fails against the larger sides since they're pressing higher and taking advantage of the obvious weaknesses at the back, but IRL, any remotely competent manager would tear this apart using (a), (b) or a mix of the two (hence, why no one plays a 424 these days).

[santy001]

I finished the season winning the premiership, it's strange though because the formation appears rather weak at times when watching during games. Full backs caught high up the pitch - but teams rarely take advantage of that. It is quite frivolous at times in front of goal too but still managed to get goals. I'm still eager to try and tighten up the flaws in it as I don't expect the results to come so much in the champions league.