4-1-3-2: Can it work?

[jujigatame]

I'm talking a DM and 3 AMs (1 central and 2 wide). Too leaky at the back or doable with the right roles? I'm considering trying this with PSG because the squad is so front-loaded. I had success with United in FM13 using a 4-4-2 with advanced wingers (4-2-2-2) so in a way this is the same formation, with 1 CM moved forward and 1 CM moved back.

[Cleon]

Anything is possible on FM but it all depends on how you set up to cover space etc. Obviously there will be downsides to using something like this but if you are prepared to accept this and set the tactic up to try and minimise these flaws then it can work.

[Althaz]

I feel like you will have a huge problem simply keeping the ball. As Cleon says, anything can work if it's well executed, but I feel like even well executed that sort of tactic would be pretty easy to exploit.

[jujigatame]

Ok, this is how I have it set up to start with, obviously tweaking may be required:

Forwards:

CF/S - Ibrahimovic

CF/A - Cavani

Midfield:

IF/S - Pastore

AM/A - Lavezzi

W/A - Lucas

DM/S - Matuidi

Defense:

FB/S - Maxwell

CD/D - Silva

CD/D - Alex

FB/S - Van Der Weil

Playing Fluid/Attacking mentality. Will report back and see how this works.

[james_wilko]

So is it one DM then three AMs? Obviously split between left, centre and right.

if so I can see your front line cluttered like that. Try using the CAM on a support role so he`ll give the other 4 a bit of space.

[smajliss]

I play this formation without wingers .. my football is very good looking but defending is bad - especially against 4-2-3-1 and i don't know how beat it .. against 4-4-2 its much easier .. any ideas ? I played 7 matches against 4-2-3-1 (scored 12 and conceded 17) against 4-4-2 16 matches (31 scored and 17 conceded)

[jujigatame]

First 2 friendlies were solid, at least offensive, but I admit I didn't play exactly like my post claims. I moved the CAM back to CM, playing Veratti there as an AP/S. Dominated Leverkeusen 4-1 with an exhausted squad which was nice.

Not sure about dealing with 4-2-3-1. You mean the narrow variant or one with wide AMs?

[smajliss]

wide AMs http://fmtc.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/4-2-3-1-deep-positions.png ..

This is from my game http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/468667379564431064/B2176137CB5263A0A4C205D94EC734E1C6059CB0/.. most conceded goals comes from sides

[AnarchyAnt]

Problems with the 4-2-3-1 makes perfect sense. Your opponents are also playing top heavy, especially if they are using 2 CMs. Sure you have 5 back (provided your fullbacks aren't getting caught out), but they have 6 up. You're going to have to outscore them. I'd bet if you watched the game you would see that the problem is they have players wide open in the middle of the field because of your gap between the DM and AMCs.

[smajliss]

There is no gap between DM and AMCs .. i use 4-1-3-2 with CMs http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/468667379564698722/96BCD377E31927811A76BF65BC244B655B202770/

[jujigatame]

Well so far I've had pretty tremendous success, going undefeated in friendlies (including a 10-0 win over some 3rd division Italian club) and giving Bordeaux a 5-1 drubbing in the Trophee de Champions.

Seems like dropping the AM to a CM helps a lot, though this same effect could possibly be accomplished if I set the AM to support duty.

On dealing with wide attackers, I keep my FBs at support duty rather than attack, maybe even dialing them back to defend would be a good idea if you're having trouble there, especially if you have good enough wingers to handle all the attacking duties on their own.

[smajliss]

I've gave up this formation .. switched to 4-1-4-1 and the results are much better .. i will be watching this topic if you or someone shows some good theory and results with this formation

[jujigatame]

Well like I said I've had success so far but this could just be because PSG's players are far superior to most French clubs. I think once Veratti develops a bit and I get a transfer window or two behind me, I'll shift permanently to the 4-1-1-2-2 which was absolutely dominant for me in pre-season friendlies and the Trophee de Champions. Having an AP/S in the middle of the pitch to tie things together really seems to help with possession. Using the pure attacking 4-1-3-2 I can still score goals but just due to having so many numbers forward and having brilliant attacking players, but it still doesn't seem like a very sound tactic. Possession is generally around 50/50 when I use it. Maybe it would be higher if I had a more possession-minded player to play in the CAM slot rather than Lavezzi who generally wants to get forward and run with the ball.

[Hagi_07]

Like every year I'll probably attempt to build a good 4-1-3-2 tactic based on Pekerman's Argentina in the WC in Germany 2006 which at times resembled a 3-1-4-2 as Sorin at LB played so high up (complete wing back for sure) and Maxi Rodriguez often popped up very wide on the right leaving the right fullback very defensive (Burdisso was used on occassion who is more often a centre back.)

I'm thinking a "hybrid" 4-1-3-2 with the left back pushed into the left wing back slot (DM strata) and the three in midfield shifted to the right one position (so two CM and a player in RM) might help lessen the problems of defending the flanks and give a bit more natural width in attack.

Against Holland, Mexico and Germany they went 4-3-3 right enough. Of course that doesn't really solve the problem of shoehorning three AM's into the PSG team.

[Fabian Jonsson]

Well like I said I've had success so far but this could just be because PSG's players are far superior to most French clubs. I think once Veratti develops a bit and I get a transfer window or two behind me, I'll shift permanently to the 4-1-1-2-2 which was absolutely dominant for me in pre-season friendlies and the Trophee de Champions. Having an AP/S in the middle of the pitch to tie things together really seems to help with possession. Using the pure attacking 4-1-3-2 I can still score goals but just due to having so many numbers forward and having brilliant attacking players, but it still doesn't seem like a very sound tactic. Possession is generally around 50/50 when I use it. Maybe it would be higher if I had a more possession-minded player to play in the CAM slot rather than Lavezzi who generally wants to get forward and run with the ball.

First of all, you shouldn't really judge a tactic based on friendlies. With a squad like that you'd dominate minnows with any tactic that is half decent. The real problem comes against other strong teams that try to keep the ball and put pressure on you. I'd venture a guess and say that with five attacking players (who are all rather rubbish at defending), you'll have serious problems containing a team like, for example, Bayern or Barca.

[Britrock]

There is no gap between DM and AMCs .. i use 4-1-3-2 with CMs http://cloud-3.steampowered.com/ugc/468667379564698722/96BCD377E31927811A76BF65BC244B655B202770/

You're effectively playing with only 2 defensive players there, your 2 DCs. You're going to get destroyed down the flanks at the moment, with no wide midfielders and two ultra-attacking WBs, especially against a 4231. Maybe try changing the DMs to a DMd (then he'll stay back more and sit on their AMC) and back off on one of the CWBs to a WBs or FBs (so they're not so far forward).

You could also change one of the BBMs to a CMd or DLPd/s so they hold their position a bit more - when you attack you'll still have your two strikers, two CMs and a CWB going forward

[jujigatame]

First of all, you shouldn't really judge a tactic based on friendlies. With a squad like that you'd dominate minnows with any tactic that is half decent. The real problem comes against other strong teams that try to keep the ball and put pressure on you. I'd venture a guess and say that with five attacking players (who are all rather rubbish at defending), you'll have serious problems containing a team like, for example, Bayern or Barca.

Well I've drawn a horrific GOD in the Champions League (Barca, Napoli, and Zenit) so we'll find out soon enough. Playing fluid seems to encourage the AMs to track back a bit more, but I could see myself losing big to Barca in particular.

That said, Cavani is out 3 months with a torn hamstring so I might not use this tactic for a while without him.