Example of poor Match Engine and how it ruined everything(for me -_-).

[Totalfootballfan]

Barside, yes, back passes happens especially from players in center field but I there’s lack of backward movement and back passes from wide players it is what I’m talking about.

Look, like on this highlight Hernandez(center field) makes back pass to Dani Alvez(wide player) and there’s 2 opposite player in front of him cutting his run forward! In real football he immediately start make backward movement and back pass because there’s open player behind him but in this highlight he start make stupid forward move and got tackled.

[video=youtube_share;kWipDqZFdRA]

Sure, you can find situations when wide player making backward movement and back pass but it only about 10% of situations when he should do it especially if you set his Run with ball – at minimum.

[Totalfootballfan]

No, you really don't. How do you expect your FB to try and get close to / overlap your winger when you've asked him to hug the touchline with your width instruction and run up field with individual instructions? If you want them interacting, a

narrower width and higher RFD for the FB than the winger would be the way to go. Or, in TC terms, a counter strategy employing a WB/A and and WM/S, with the 'Look for Overlap' shout active.

wwfan, I don’t talk about overlapping and I don’t want it. I’m talking about backward movement and holding ball for wingers!

Look, players don't hesitate dribble toward its own goal. You don’t find such behavior from players in FM 13. They just stand and wait when got tackled.

[video=youtube_share;6dvTs6ki_j8]

As you said in current state of match engine “interaction” between winger and fullback/defender most of time could happen only if they are very close or fullback ahead of winger but in real football a lot of such interactions happens when winger from high up filed position starting moves backward toward it own half.

Look this highlight show that player(Dani Alvez) doesn’t have such script if he turn around and start move toward it own goal it should save him from tackle.

[video=youtube_share;kWipDqZFdRA]

[wwfan]

wwfan, I don’t talk about overlapping and I don’t want it. I’m talking about backward movement and holding ball for wingers!

Look, players don't hesitate dribble toward its own goal. You don’t find such behavior from players in FM 13. They just stand and wait when got tackled.

[video=youtube_share;6dvTs6ki_j8]

As you said in current state of match engine “interaction” between winger and fullback/defender most of time could happen only if they are very close or fullback ahead of winger but in real football a lot of such interactions happens when winger from high up filed position starting moves backward toward it own half.

This is not what you were arguing previously. If you are stating that ball carriers do not make enough effort to avoid the tackler, by making lateral or backward runs, then no argument here. That is an ME bug that no amount of slider moving will fix.

[Totalfootballfan]

This is not what you were arguing previously. If you are stating that ball carriers do not make enough effort to avoid the tackler, by making lateral or backward runs, then no argument here. That is an ME bug that no amount of slider moving will fix.

These quotes from my first post.

Also there’s another big issue in match engine – players can only move “forward” especially wingers even if their tactical instruction Run with ball – rarely, Hold up Ball – yes. You almost never see situation when they turtle and start move backward but this is totally wrong because such movement is big part of football.

But my wingers totally refuse to use this advantage no matter what tactical instructions I give them because of poor match engine and scripting. Players mostly of time totally ignoring open players behind them especially wingers and even if there’s ten opposition players on their way and ten open player behind them they choose dribble.

I’m arguing about lack of backward movements or totally absence of such scripts and about absence of back pass but aren’t back passes and backward movement linked? To make back bass player should at least turn around(or also he can use his heel-))!

I’m sorry If I don’t make clear what I’m arguing about.

That is an ME bug that no amount of slider moving will fix.

I wasn’t sure about it and I hopped that I can see such behavior from player using some different tactical settings.

[wwfan]

I’m sorry If I don’t make clear what I’m arguing about.

No worries. You've made a relevant point and it is definitely something SI will be aware of.

[Guest]

This is not what you were arguing previously. If you are stating that ball carriers do not make enough effort to avoid the tackler, by making lateral or backward runs, then no argument here. That is an ME bug that no amount of slider moving will fix.

I'd agree that there is a lack of off the ball movement from players in an attempt to create new passing options for the player in possession but I cannot agree that the ME is bugged in respect of having players not checking their forwards runs while in possession in favour of a backwards or lateral pass(run) to a player in space to avoid losing the ball in a tackle or running into a cul-de-sac, I see this behaviour all the time.

[Puni]

Has anyone pointed out yet that shouts won't work if you set all player instructions manually (i.e. if you override the standard ones)? To me it looks like the OP sets all his instructions manually, they don't work, and then he complains that shouts don't work. If you have no clear understanding of what the sliders do, don't touch them. Leaving them on their natural settings and changing things through shouts works way better, and you won't do anything stupid that you don't realise.

[Guest]

I'd agree that there is a lack of off the ball movement from players in an attempt to create new passing options for the player in possession but I cannot agree that the ME is bugged in respect of having players not checking their forwards runs while in possession in favour of a backwards or lateral pass(run) to a player in space to avoid losing the ball in a tackle or running into a cul-de-sac, I see this behaviour all the time.

Another clip to illustrate that an attacking player will give up on a forward run if it looks like being a low percentage move, the player who breaks into the box is a converted ST playing as an attacking IF so not exactly the most defensive minded player in my team but he's a good egg.

You'll notice that rather than taking a shot through an ever decreasing gap he plays to ball back to my advanced FB who then starts a move that see's the play switch to the other flank & the player who started it all gets his reward.

[video=youtube;kmJ-EJq8RLM]

[BiggusD]

I'd agree that there is a lack of off the ball movement from players in an attempt to create new passing options for the player in possession but I cannot agree that the ME is bugged in respect of having players not checking their forwards runs while in possession in favour of a backwards or lateral pass(run) to a player in space to avoid losing the ball in a tackle or running into a cul-de-sac, I see this behaviour all the time.

I think forward runs are not checked at all and entirely unlinked to what is happening on the pitch. "Rarely", "Sometimes" and "Often" aren't accurate terms since everyone but keepers and central defenders WILL run forward if you keep possession long enough. It's just 3 levels of run timing delay. I think TotalFootbalFan has a point here, but it could be worded very simply; "there is not enough lateral & backwards/come deep movement in the ME, and the players are hesitating/dwelling on the ball too much". That wouldn't have made a 60+ reply thread, though

To the OP:

It is clear that each position has unique scripting, so that a full back will not behave the same as a wide midfielder even though they have the same exact instructions. Maybe the OP isn't aware of this.

It is also clear in my eyes that the entire problem of the OP is that the winger has only 15 pace. At 16 pace and 16 dribbling he would not stand still that much, but he would be able to go past their full back more often. Thus, by setting that player to WM-s or similar (very balanced setup with TB set to Often and the rest Sometimes iirc), he would much more often choose to pass the ball around. What he has done by setting all those options to Rarely, limiting creative freedom and whatnot, is that he does nothing instead. In addition, max width makes it easy for the opponent to block the path of any forward runs. All in all, the OP may know a lot about football, but when a tactic does what his videos show, that's a sign that it doesn't work. Now, I'm sure he has got a tactic that works but experiments like these are hopeless because one or two players can't be studied in isolation. I see passing triangles between WM's MC's and FB's all the time (in my case CD/WM/MC/DLF), so it can definitely be done. In this scenario, a defensive winger paired with an attacking full back simply won't work. Why? There's a million factors to choose from, and experimenting one factor at a time with Classic to figure out how is pointless as long as the TC has the correct setup to do so. That's where you'll end up anyways.

The answer to this "riddle" is very simple: The TC/ME has Winger/Wide Midfielder/Defensive Winger as options. None of them are "holding midfielder that passes back to the full back", so the ME doesn't support what you want your wingers to do.

On the other hand, what you object to is that your winger tries to dribble and gets tackled when less risky options are available. He doesn't really dribble. He's standing still. The reason he's standing still is because he isn't fast enough to attempt a dribble and you don't allow him to anyways. An experiment for the OP; set everything in the middle for both the winger and the full back and the midfielder on that side. Everything from Mentality to Crossing as well as Tempo, Width, Defensive Line. I think you will see more passing on the flanks then.

[Totalfootballfan]

Guys, all my experiments and experience show lack of backward movement or totally absence of such scripts for players. Changing Mentality, Creative freedom, Run with ball and all other possible tactical instructional from minimum to maximum – nothing helps. Also setting all attributes to from 1 to 20 like mental, technical and physical, I’ve tried many different combinations.

In current state of match engine when player meet opposition player in front of him this happens:

1) Trying dribble if allowed by tactical instruction.

2) If he not allowed dribble trying make pass.

3) if there’s no options for pass then he just wait when he get tackled.

4) In very rarely cases he turn around but also without backward movement.

No matter that player have a lot of space for backward movement behind him.

I don’t tell that players always must do backward movement if he has space behind him but there's must be an option to ask player to do that.

I posted highlights from real football game in this thread and it shows that players making very many backward movement it’s very big part of football not only open space in front of players but also behind them.

Also I posted highlights from game when you can see how unrealistic it looks when player get tackled even if he has open space to dribble behind him but he totally ignoring it.

[Puni]

Did you watch full games?

[Totalfootballfan]

One more example from real game how winger using open space behind him to get away from defender and tackle.

[video=youtube_share;V4G-59K-97A]

In current state of match engine players with ball limited by moving in purple arrow direction and there’s almost no backward movement in red arrow direction.

If they met opposition player in from of them you almost never see that they stop turn back and start moving backward using space behind them.

Sure it very easy for defender catch the player if he only allow forward or diagonal movement.

And look what heppend.

[video=youtube_share;wXlp94GyUGE]

One more example:

[video=youtube_share;p1SuT16P_mQ]

[Totalfootballfan]

Hi all! It’s me again. I’m sorry if I bored someone with my addictiveness to match engine

I think you watched Confederations Cup final Brazil vs Spain.

Look how players use open space and open teammates behind them to get away from frontal pressure and tackling. Back passes follow immediately if there’s any sense of danger to get caught in possession.

Player with ball always feels himself very comfortable If there’s open space behind and open teammates and there’s almost zero success rate in putting pressure.

Chasing players if they have open space and open teammates behind is very dangerous behavior it can burn fitness very quickly and open zones.

[video=youtube_share;ByLYRwUediM]

BUT in FM 13 if players like cruisers -))) can move only forward and don’t see open players behind – pressing always win! For me such behavior makes looks match engine very unrealistic.

[video=youtube_share;fEwLK5TLC7E]

Average player’s stats from video:

Also tried change Flair from 1 to 20.

Million different tactical settings. Mostly visible effect comes from changing Run with Ball setting but Run with Ball – rarely is more like stay and wait when you get tackled and Run with ball – Often is more like run forward and also get tackled -)))))))

[Guest]

Did you watch the last clip I posted?

[Totalfootballfan]

Did you watch the last clip I posted?

Barside, yes. If you mean that there’s some amount of back passes in your highlight. Sure! There’s also a lot of back passes in my game. BTW I didn’t find backward movement in your highlights.

But lets say there was 10 “one on one” situations and in match and 8 times forward tries put ball back of the net and 2 time he suddenly turn around and make long back pass to his GK! Can we call it realistic match engine? I think not.

Upload your full match and I’ll find a lot of stupid situation when players loosing ball even if there’s a lot open teammates around and space behind where he can move away from tackle.

See what I’m talking about? -)))

[Guest]

Of course you'll find situations where you think the player made the wrong choice, that's how it should be.

What I'm trying to express is that when you get it right there is an acceptable balance & that what you're saying is impossible or unlikely which imo isn't entirely true.

[rvd313]

No backwards movement? Seriously? My players pass the ball backwards all the time.

Here's one example from my most recent match:

My AML receives the ball and runs until he's put under pressure. He then moves backwards, passes to the DL, and moves into space. He then receives the ball again and passes back to the MCL.

[Totalfootballfan]

No backwards movement? Seriously? My players pass the ball backwards all the time.

The point is not in finding situations when players behave realistic but in finding situations when they are not.

Ok, lets imagine situation like that.

Iniesta with ball on own half of filed. There’s no rush. 3-4 open teammates around. And only one opposition player came to press him. And he loosing him ball already 3-4 times. Someone may that he is just drunk. I can find huge amount situations in match when players with stats(mental/ technical/physical) better then Iniesta have in game constantly doing such stupid things.

P.S.Upload the hole match.

[Guest]

It's sounds like you want an end to players making bad decisions, if that's the case then no amount of uploaded matches will be of any use because your expectations are unrealistic.

Realistic behaviour requires that sometimes players make just as many, if not more, poor decisions that good ones & that only when the manager has his tactics right will the right decision be more frequent.

[Totalfootballfan]

It's sounds like you want an end to players making bad decisions, if that's the case then no amount of uploaded matches will be of any use because your expectations are unrealistic.

Realistic behaviour requires that sometimes players make just as many, if not more, poor decisions that good ones & that only when the manager has his tactics right will the right decision be more frequent.

Barside, lets make such classification of decisions:

a) Good.

b) Poor.

c) Unrealistic.

I have nothing against Poor decisions.

Lets take example from his highlight. In real life this player would make one touch pass forward/back or if he doesn’t want to then he would turn around start run away from opposition player in space behind him hiding ball with his back. But what he did in this highlight is totally unrealistic. Letting player to tackle yourself in such way is total unrealistic.

[video=youtube_share;V6o2PVgkoRo]

Lets look on his stats:

Few minutes latter the same pattern happens to another player.

[video=youtube_share;x2aLdXJgbwM]

Lets look on his stats:

For me such behavior from players look unrealistic especially with such top stats.

[Guest]

How do you define an unrealistic decision?

The visual will be identical to a poor decision so unless it is 100% reproducible (player never makes the right choice) what you & I are watching is open to interpretation.

When watching real life football I am constantly asking myself why a player has done what he has just done, If you're not I would question how much football you watch & your understanding of the game.

Edit: we've all failed to address one aspect & that could be the visual representation of why a players had allowed themselves to be dispossessed has been let down by the limited animations available to the 3D viewer.

[Totalfootballfan]

How do you define an unrealistic decision?

The visual will be identical to a poor decision so unless it is 100% reproducible (player never makes the right choice) what you & I are watching is open to interpretation.

When watching real life football I am constantly asking myself why a player has done what he has just done, If you're not I would question how much football you watch & your understanding of the game.

Edit: we've all failed to address one aspect & that could be the visual representation of why a players had allowed themselves to be dispossessed has been let down by the limited animations available to the 3D viewer.

Follow your logic if in game field player suddenly take ball in his hands and run away and someone says “it’s not realistic” and you answer “why? In real life player easily could do the same! It’s was just poor decision”! -)))

If there’s no way to distinct realistic behavior from not realistic why even bother of making game simulation? -))) Of course it never be like real life game but we should try make it close as possible.

I see such pattern when players loosing ball in this way very often and I find it very unrealistic. You and someone else say l that it’s fine and realistic so let’s be it. We all have our opinions and it’s normal situation. -))

[Guest]

Your first paragraph is beyond daft.

[Totalfootballfan]

When watching real life football I am constantly asking myself why a player has done what he has just done, If you're not I would question how much football you watch & your understanding of the game.

No, I don’t say all that hard -))) Football is simple game as people say “the ball is round” -)))) BTW I’m not only watching but also playing sport school for 6 years and now sometimes playing in amateur league for fun.

[Totalfootballfan]

One more example of unrealistic situation wich happens very often .

This is how ONE player can put FIVE players under pressure!

[video=youtube_share;93uYC8jtc6k]

And who is this “One” player? Messi! The player with awful stats do doing such things! Aggression – 8, Bravery – 9, Position -4, Marking – 5, Work Rate – 11.

And the stats for defender? Even better then Gerard Pique have!

Is this onetime event? No! Such situations constantly happens. Some time later similar situation happened again.

[video=youtube_share;-vnCXDmbJ4I]

About what realism we can talk here if ONE player can put under pressure FIVE players top level quality. Even amateur level players can handle such situations.

The player with ball have all possible advantage what can be in football in this situation:

1) Open teammates around.

2) Open space behind him where he can move.

In real life players even wouldn’t try press in such situations because it simple hopeless and only burn their fitness for nothing.

[Guest]

As you're so concerned start uploading pkm's with a post the bugs forum, just posting screenshots & the odd 8 second clip in GD is of little or no value to the match engine team at SI.

Edit: When posting about a subjective issue like this in the bugs forum I would also suggest giving examples from the same match of what you consider to be correct behaviour, this will allow the ME team to compare the decision making process of what you consider to be the right/wrong events to assess of something needs addressing.

[Totalfootballfan]

As you're so concerned start uploading pkm's with a post the bugs forum, just posting screenshots & the odd 8 second clip in GD is of little or no value to the match engine team at SI.

Barside, I don’t think these all is bugs. -))) It’s just simple match engine. Only what I’m doing is trying to explain what and why on my opinion looks unrealistic and all this movies just for better visualization and explanation.

[Guest]

There is nothing simple about the match engine, if you truly think that the ME is limiting your options then you should be giving examples to SI for them to look at.

[Svenc]

One more example of unrealistic situation wich happens very often .

This is how ONE player can put FIVE players under pressure!

[video=youtube_share;93uYC8jtc6k]

And who is this “One” player? Messi! The player with awful stats do doing such things! Aggression – 8, Bravery – 9, Position -4, Marking – 5, Work Rate – 11.

I really like your videos, it is rare that somebody takes the time to point out this well what he is talking about. :-) A picture may be more worth a thousand words, but I'd take an illustrated video of yours any day. :-)

I don't know exactly how the ME handles attributes, but PaulC once said it is using weighted random numbers. Firstly, since there needs to be a random element. And escondly, since it is deemed that by and large better players should outperform worse ones, but not always. In the small German community, which naturally sadly has no user really insightful in the ME, and thus nobody "official" can correct them when they're wrong, leading members have advocated for years that they always set their "long shot" slider to the bare minimum when the player doesn't have a real great attribute for long shots. Some even set dribbling for amateur wingers to zero, since they don't come with superior dribblings stats of the likes of Messi.

The problems of this are manyfold. For a start, it is reducing options for players which can prove troublesome. How should a winger proper prove useful when he is told to avoid dribbling? Secondly, this is obviously not it how it works, as by that logic on an amateur level nothing should work whatsoever. Higher attributes mean that there is a better likelyhood of something going right, but even a player with one point in long shots might hit a screamer every once in a while.

Messi doesn't have overly aggressive attributes, but that doesn't mean he won't put effectively players under pressure any. In particular as his physical attributes are certainly good enough to cover a lot of ground (pace, acceleration!). Likewise, even defenerds of Pique quality are prone to error and pressure. Now whether both of this happens too frequently is up for debate, naturally. Nobody argues FM to be any perfect, some of the criticism in this thread was acknowledged to be ME weakness.

Nonetheless, there is a third facor to consider, and that is the increasing influence of FIFA and PES on the perception of people on football. FM's engine isn't trying to recreate neither FIFA nor PES, two incredibly fun action sims. But in contrast to FM that for the first time ever is simulating the 90 minutes in full, both are also games that cut matches short by about 80 minutes, essentially providing a very idealized outlook on a sports full of error even at the highest level. Half times last but about two by six minutes on default settings, but still there needs be a realistic result. As such, nearly every free kick Ronaldo and Pirlo hits goes straight on target, and North Korea are perfectly capable of recycling possession by playing a swift and quick short passing game way into the opposition's final third, even moreso in the hands of a good player who makes all the decisions necessary himself from a very beneficial TV-like camera view with every option forwards and backwards always in his sight. This isn't reality any, obviously, and your examples are from real football rather than action sims. Just saying as it is certainly influencing people.

[Totalfootballfan]

Svenc, you have a good point and I agree most of you said. I have no illusion and I understand how hard to balance everything and get realistic results. I just trying to add “my two cent” maybe it will be helpful -))).

BWT I never took FIFA and PES as example and even never think about it. -)) All came from my own experience in young age some time about 6 years was spent in football sport school and now playing for fun at weekend in amateur league and sure watching football all my life -)))

For me it looks very unrealistic when one player can put pressure on five players.

Look how comfortable players feel when they have open teammates around and open space behind where they can move away from pressure and opposition player don’t even try to press in such situations.

[video=youtube_share;32ryUbah43g]

[Jean-Luc]

Despite not completely agreeing with your tactical logic of why they should pass in this situation, I also find it highly interesting and actually pretty useful to set up a puzzle ("make player X play a back pass to player Y") and try to solve it.

I stumbled over this little thread here on influence and had to think of your problem.

Just wondering: Could it also be that your fullbacks simply have low influence? Could it be that by pushing every mental attribute of your main player to 20, you actually did not create the "best perfect example" but rather a kind of distorted player, who, on top of all, is influential enough to ignore some of the other players for a reason?

Just a thought. Doesn't have to be the reason, but might be at least worthwile to consider and play around with.

[MichaelBrown]

Despite not completely agreeing with your tactical logic of why they should pass in this situation, I also find it highly interesting and actually pretty useful to set up a puzzle ("make player X play a back pass to player Y") and try to solve it.

I stumbled over this little thread here on influence and had to think of your problem.

Just wondering: Could it also be that your fullbacks simply have low influence? Could it be that by pushing every mental attribute of your main player to 20, you actually did not create the "best perfect example" but rather a kind of distorted player, who, on top of all, is influential enough to ignore some of the other players for a reason?

Just a thought. Doesn't have to be the reason, but might be at least worthwile to consider and play around with.

Unless I'm totally wrong, influence is important for choosing your captain and that's it.

[Rashidi]

As I told I played with all attributes from 1 to 20. Tell what attributes is naturally attack minded? And tell me how to set them and I’ll try to play.

Its at this point of the thread ...where that and this...

Hi all!

I’m telling all this because I want to show that I very competent in understanding match engine and I know all its ugliness -)) Also I have strong understanding what every tactical slider do and how it affects player behavior.

gave me my entertainment value for the day. Its very easy to create a tactic where wingers can get the ball up and then play the ball back to an overlapping fullback...or decide to have a go themselves. And one doesn't even need to have a strong understanding of the match engine to do it, the tactical creator is sufficient. If you want to make one fullback overlap and have the winger on the other flank play like cristiano ronaldo then that requires some slight tweaking to the tactic and naturally having the right players for the roles.. Wingers backpassing to a waiting fullback to cross from deep happens without too much effort in the match engine...so I am sure you have sufficient understanding of the match engine to make that work. I love GQ.

[Guest]

He's not talking about overlapping fullbacks, the OP's issue is based on his perception that players do not look to recycle/retain possession through their defence, I don't agree but it is all rather subjective.

[Rashidi]

He's not talking about overlapping fullbacks, the OP's issue is based on his perception that players do not look to recycle/retain possession through their defence, I don't agree but it is all rather subjective.

Recycling possession using dcs and fullbacks happens in the game now..its central to how most of my teams maintain 60% possession.

[Totalfootballfan]

I’ve made an interesting experiment. I took control of both teams and set only 1 defender for one team and 4 attackers for second team. I did all this in order to create 4 vs 1 situations and see how players gonna behave themselves.

Quality of attackers is about Iniesta/Messi level and quality of the defender is Gerard Pique level.

To avoid any extremes I set all players settings in middle:

Here you can see how it was played.

[video=youtube_share;BgWTWIY7q4w]

You can see how easily in FM 13 ONE defender can win against four/five players.

I’m very interesting if there were a poll amongst professional players and trainers – “What success rate should have attack 4 vs 1?”. When I’m talking about “success” I mean not a goal but at least clear cut or shot attempt. I can bet that results of such polls would be around 90%.

Why this doesn’t happens in FM 13? It’s very simple:

1) The Players in real life isn’t superheroes Flash. They can’t same time close for player forward moving direction and side passes.

2) They don’t have stealth mode and teleport to help them tackle player. If one player seeing that other player cutting his forward movement and coming closer he stops and start moves in space behind.

3) They don’t try dribble if there’s win ratio for this situation like you can win 1 $ but if lose you can lost 1 million $. Like on highlights I posted above there’s no reason to risk letting defender get closer there’s 4-5 open teammates around.

Yes, there was situations witch ended clears cut or shot attempt but amount of such situations unrealistically small is about 10-20% for such great advantage 4-5 vs 1.

[Guest]

First of all setting all sliders to the middle does not ensure balance, stop messing with them until you fully understand what they do & secondly your 'experiment' has failed to consider how the midfield did or didn't help out to cover any gaps.

[Ackter]

That doesn't show superhuman defences, that shows idiotic attacking decisions.

Worth putting a bug in the bugs forum - those attackers should be passing when they're that free, unless you have a team full of Hatem Ben Arfas.

[Guest]

Didn't realise there was an imbedded video, I'll retract my post above until I've got back home & watched it.

[Juventus FC]

I’ve made an interesting experiment. I took control of both teams and set only 1 defender for one team and 4 attackers for second team. I did all this in order to create 4 vs 1 situations and see how players gonna behave themselves.

Quality of attackers is about Iniesta/Messi level and quality of the defender is Gerard Pique level.

To avoid any extremes I set all players settings in middle:

Here you can see how it was played.

[video=youtube_share;BgWTWIY7q4w]

You can see how easily in FM 13 ONE defender can win against four/five players.

I’m very interesting if there were a poll amongst professional players and trainers – “What success rate should have attack 4 vs 1?”. When I’m talking about “success” I mean not a goal but at least clear cut or shot attempt. I can bet that results of such polls would be around 90%.

Why this doesn’t happens in FM 13? It’s very simple:

1) The Players in real life isn’t superheroes Flash. They can’t same time close for player forward moving direction and side passes.

2) They don’t have stealth mode and teleport to help them tackle player. If one player seeing that other player cutting his forward movement and coming closer he stops and start moves in space behind.

3) They don’t try dribble if there’s win ratio for this situation like you can win 1 $ but if lose you can lost 1 million $. Like on highlights I posted above there’s no reason to risk letting defender get closer there’s 4-5 open teammates around.

Yes, there was situations witch ended clears cut or shot attempt but amount of such situations unrealistically small is about 10-20% for such great advantage 4-5 vs 1.

Interesting thread, in general.

I must tell you that the video concerning your experiment looks unbelievable to me.

I am playing Juventus (now season 2015/16 ending with our fourth consecutive Scudetto in the bag, fifth counting the 11/12 one IRL) and I've played a 4-2-4 tactic most of the time, with two DMs, a winger and an inside forward. By the way, it's the tactic Conte allegedly did wish to play when he took charge at Juventus two years ago and never did. Well, I've never seen any of my attacking players (now Giovinco, Giuliano, Isco, Giaccherini, and Cavani + Javier Hernandez as strikers) do anything as stupid as in your video example. When they outnumber their opposition, they almost invariably create something very dangerous. I am sure that, in a situation like the ones you show, my players would never run to the sideline with the ball ignoring their free teammates. They would pass the ball to one of them or, at the very least, try to dribble their opponent quickly. That's what I see time and again.

Of course, normally we just have one free player in a counterattack situation, not three or four like in your example.

To sum it up, I am quite surprised at the behaviour of the players in your video and it doesn't correspond to my experience.

[Ackter]

Didn't realise there was an imbedded video, I'll retract my post above until I've got back home & watched it.

Basically it shows a load of engineered 1 vs 5 situations, and in each case the attacker with the ball allows himself to be closed down and tackled rather than pass to one of his 4 open team mates.

[Ackter]

snip

Note sure if it's been asked/answered already, but which version of the game/patch are you playing?

[Totalfootballfan]

Note sure if it's been asked/answered already, but which version of the game/patch are you playing?

Steam English version latest patch.

[Guest]

Basically it shows a load of engineered 1 vs 5 situations, and in each case the attacker with the ball allows himself to be closed down and tackled rather than pass to one of his 4 open team mates.

1 Minute in & so far every stupid decision or poor ball has been made by the same player.

I wonder what the final score was.

[Totalfootballfan]

My latest posted highlights 5 attackers vs 1 defender and previous 5 defenders vs 1 attacker are parts of one chain.

It shows that fundamental pieces football consist of aren’t working in FM match engine.

This is what should happens if one player try to get ball from five players.

Video:

[video=youtube_share;Vah7NNWrNCk]

About what realism can we talk if 5 players struggle to keep possession against 1?

If one side willing to put pressure on opposition defense line then they should use more then one forward to make pressing but as my highlights show in current state of match engine only one forward is doing fine.

If one side want win center of midfield then they should outnumber opposition in this are. Why bother of doing it if 2 players can do just fine against 5?

Players in real football tries to create numeric advantage in every piece of the field all the time to keep possession or create attacking opportunities also they use all space around and behind to get away from tackle. If match engine scripts can’t do that then it’s a huge blow to realism of match engine.

[Jean-Luc]

Unless I'm totally wrong, influence is important for choosing your captain and that's it.

If I put a link to a thread, wouldn't it be useful to at least acknowledge and read it, before answering?

[Guest]

After watching the video yesterday it was clear that one player was to blame for the for vast majority of the missed chances shown, as it's the same player then that would indicate that there are additional factors influencing what is happening.

[Totalfootballfan]

After watching the video yesterday it was clear that one player was to blame for the for vast majority of the missed chances shown, as it's the same player then that would indicate that there are additional factors influencing what is happening.

It’s just a coincidence that I posted a lot of him. I’ve got many of highlights from others players with same behavior. If you want I can upload them.

[Totalfootballfan]

Here you go! Another episode of 5 vs 1 fighting! Enjoy! -)))

Video:

[video=youtube_share;jsvAN-TMITs]

This one is for dessert -))

[video=youtube_share;HXYcG1gMGik]

How do you think what was Jano doing?

Cross!?Sure! Why not!? There’s a lot crosses from player in real life in such situations. -)))

[Guest]

How many times do I have to suggest this - Post issues you have in the bugs forum.

Continually posting videos of unrealistic scenarios in GD serves little or no purpose & even though SI will be hard at work on FM14 posts in the ME bugs section could still be looked at as the FM14 ME will likely just be an evolution of the one we have now.