Arturo Vidal Problem

[jackleel]

Almost every playing Arturo Vidal collecting yellow/red card. what is best player instruction for him ??

[Flohrinho]

I think it's because his aggression value is 19 or something? Maybe setting him to an easy tackling option can help a bit but he will probably go over the top every now and then and get a red, it's in his nature.

[Nik_Dut]

Mark van Bommel too.

Guess SI just don't like some players.

[forameuss]

Mark van Bommel too.

Guess SI just don't like some players.

Yeah, because van Bommel, the man who was sent off during his final career game, getting lots of yellows and reds in FM proves conclusively that SI "don't like" him.

[woody2goody]

Rafael picked up 25 yellow cards and 3 red for me in my first season, I think this reflects his real life behaviour fairly well, but even he doesn't get that many cards over a season.

[Stephano Kalpi]

As i play a lot as Juve i found the solution to be setting his takling to easy player spesific. Also sett him on heavy trainingon his composure. Legend!

[Carmi88]

its an italian thing

[KevMaaan]

I think it's because his aggression value is 19 or something? Maybe setting him to an easy tackling option can help a bit but he will probably go over the top every now and then and get a red, it's in his nature.

I've read that agression actually means how involved you will try to be in play, and not how aggresively you tackle. Check messis high aggression, it wouldnt make sense to be your "proneness to foul" as such, thats mostly due to the hidden dirtiness stat, and probably something to do with volatility of the player.

[TeddyBearsDontLie]

Messi's high aggression? His aggression is far from high. I'm pretty certain aggression definitely does play a part in how many cards the player is going to pick up, which is also why the players aggression will in most cases go down after being fined from picking up a red card.

[Domus Clamantium]

What you are really looking for is someone with high aggression and bravery but who also has a low hidden dirtiness attribute

[soccer.joel]

Mark van Bommel too.

Guess SI just don't like some players.

I once played a Bayern game on FM10 he got sent off almost every game so I had to sell him

[soccer.joel]

Messi's aggression is because he try's to get the ball before other players, etc.

[podunkboy]

I have a player who started with Aggression of 20, I'm been training him on Composure and his Aggression's down to 15, not getting sent off every other game now. Curiously, now the other teams are futilely trying to snatch him up.

[Flohrinho]

What you are really looking for is someone with high aggression and bravery but who also has a low hidden dirtiness attribute

That's exactly it. High aggression alone isn't the worst thing as long as he has high sportsmanship and low dirtiness values. I think Vidal has on top of the 19 aggression some fairly high dirtiness values (15+ I think) which will see him collect quite a few cards.

[iMan]

Yeah he has 17 dirtiness. Also has dives into tackles ppm.

[jackleel]

I decided to sell him, because of poor discipline

[supersplash]

****, i would love to get Vidal for £30m

[Nik_Dut]

Strangely, you'll find that the players will stop collecting as much cards after sold to AI clubs.

[edgar555]

Mark van Bommel too.

Guess SI just don't like some players.

Nonsense. MVB was a dirty player. 120+ yellows and 9 reds in his career of 450+ games kinda point to that.

[vasilli07]

I signed Jack Wilshere for 42m and also having the same problem. He has ppm argue with officials which made him easy target for refs. He has played very well(15 games/8 goals/3 assists) for me so far but got 5 yellows/2 reds in 15 games.

[lennon67]

This is similar to Radja Nainggolan who I signed in my Liverpool save, he has played 22 games an has picked up 12 yellows and 2 reds but he has been playing brilliant so can't really complain, he's leading the stats for tackles per game and it's only natural he will pick up loads of cards with making so many tackles per game and I have accepted this will be part and parcel of his game.

[arsenalthebest]

I signed Jack Wilshere for 42m and also having the same problem. He has ppm argue with officials which made him easy target for refs. He has played very well(15 games/8 goals/3 assists) for me so far but got 5 yellows/2 reds in 15 games.

Ive managed to get him off that took 7 years

[jackleel]

Strangely, you'll find that the players will stop collecting as much cards after sold to AI clubs.

yes you right. he's just getting 16 yellow card and 4 red card for 42 games

[av3ry]

I have a guy with 19 aggression, think he had 1 red card in about 3/4 years with me barely ever gets booked either. He is a winger though so wont normally be making too many tackles. On the player body language screen during games he's always "seems aggressive" but he doesnt often get booked possibly because of his Sporting personality? I dont know.

[scott MUFC]

Papadopolous is a high agression guy he rarely gets sent off for me.

Fellaini is the worst offender.

Wilshere doesnt have many issues with refs on mine, nor Fletcher (another one who has that PPM) he usualy gets injured or rotated anyway.

[Soccer]

Get him to unlearn his PPM 'Dives into Tackles'?

[Mato]

Im remember Cana from Marseille few years ago, yellow in every game.

[Svenc]

I think we should be glad that nobody so far has forced SI to take dirtiness attributes and "argues with officials" PPMs et all out of the game that the real players could consider as giving them a bad rep. Firstly, some players are more prone to getting booked full-stop. If you take a look at your league statistics, you'll see a trend there, I once set up a squad that looked like this for fun via the editor, had it managed by the AI (Felix Magath who doesn't shy away from aggressiveness took over during the season), and the fallout was as follows:

http://s7.directupload.net/file/d/2993/rx8qnpks_png.htm

http://s1.directupload.net/file/d/2993/vl9alqvu_png.htm

This gives the game significant extra depth as prior to transfering players managers must consider individual traits shining through. Vidal is a great player, but he has a darker side to him that will show and hopefully your scout will point you out on (the league statistics should do if he doesn't). Will you still consider? Still remember that there are legal boundaries in which SI or any other sports game developer operates in. There won't be any real frequent scandals even for players who produce such frequently in real-life, as such would result in legal actions by the player himself or his management who would consider it to be bad PR and have him removed from the DB outright at its most drastic. Yet still I'm glad that this still shines through either.

A bug in FM 2012 for instance had it that you could take a peek at private chats between players and AI managers if you clicked on their conversation history tab in their profile. No matter at which club Arnautovic for instance was transfered to or playing at, I always had a good chuckle seeing him frequently going head to head with his manager either by demanding transfer requests or similar. No matter in which save, no matter at which club, it's always been the same.

http://www.pic-upload.de/view-20540279/arnautovic.png.html

[Ranquelme]

Im remember Cana from Marseille few years ago, yellow in every game.

Not any better now, this is him AI controlled.

[sirgiorgio]

It's (y)our tactics. I don't know why, but it is.

In my previous Juve save (433 (451) attacking) he collected 5 red cards in one season. And not only him, also Pepe and Lichtsteiner. I lost the CL Final playing 8 against 11.

In my current save (352 control)... Still a lot of yellow cards, but only one red card (Isla).

Vidal is always bwm support. I'm curious to know if there's a way to reduce his (unrealistic) aggression and dirtiness attributes. Without editing the database, that is.

What strikes me the most is that at least one yellow card per game is always "that looked harsh", "it didn't look like a foul" etc. Also, the questions about "the lack of discipline" of my players... What am I suppose to answer? It's not that I can control them!

[LilSaint]

Mark van Bommel too.

Guess SI just don't like some players.

I do hope you're being sarcastic

As for the Vidal part: have you seen him play IRL? I'm amazed he doesn't collect more red cards the way he sometimes dives into tackles. Absolute nutcase.

[mustardpower]

I have never finished a game against Lee Cattermole without him being at least yellow carded but this is probably the case in reality. Mehdi Lacen for Getafe is the same.

[Federico]

I solved the "Vidal problem" by selling him to Barcelona for a lot of cash. At least he was useful for 1 thing in his (in game)life. Impossible to play him for 3 matches in raw, because of red cards/bans. Obviously something must be nerfed in his mental attributes.

I really hope they make a better work this year about Vidal, it's just outrageous a player like him to be treated like this. Shame, shame really.

[Svenc]

It's (y)our tactics. I don't know why, but it is.

In my previous Juve save (433 (451) attacking) he collected 5 red cards in one season. And not only him, also Pepe and Lichtsteiner. I lost the CL Final playing 8 against 11.

I simulated Serie A a couple times now in full detail, I even chose Juve myself and picked different formations and tactics, and I've yet to see the excessive numbers some claim there to be, such as Ranquelme's shot of Cana, for instance. I'm not arguing that it never at all happens. Yes, Vidal will always be hovering around the top ten in Serie A when it comes to bookings (I've yet to see him making the absolute top spots though), and you don't buy someone like him if you want to avoid bookings, but that's bang on the money, if you ask me.

What am I suppose to answer? It's not that I can control them!

Try to get "argues with officials" and "dives into tackles" PPMs out of them. Try to give them fines for lack of discipline, this can decrease aggression attributes. Or if you really can't take players of this kind, sell them and sure as hell don't consider bringing in even more of them in the first place. Yes you can't control your players as if they'd be robots, but that's exactly the point. Similarily to other attributes and PPMs (Robben's "one-trick-ponyness", and injury proneness anyone?) either you can take and embrace what these guys have on offer both good and bad an deal with the consequences of their style or you don't. But either way, it is something you must consider, as any manager would in real-life.

[sirgiorgio]

I simulated Serie A a couple times now in full detail, I even chose Juve myself and picked different formations and tactics, and I've yet to see the excessive numbers some claim there to be, such as Ranquelme's shot of Cana, for instance. I'm not arguing that it never at all happens. Yes, Vidal will always be hovering around the top ten in Serie A when it comes to bookings (I've yet to see him making the absolute top spots though), and you don't buy someone like him if you want to avoid bookings, but that's bang on the money, if you ask me.

I'm telling you, I've started at least 5 saves with Juve using at least 5 different tactics. Vidal and his teammates with aggression 16+ can either be "your average hard-working players who collects one yellow card every two matches" or "psychos who gets sent off every other match", depending on the tactic. Or maybe it's just pure randomness?

Try to get "argues with officials" and "dives into tackles" PPMs out of them. Try to give them fines for lack of discipline, this can decrease aggression attributes. Or if you really can't take players of this kind, sell them and sure as hell don't consider bringing in even more of them in the first place. Yes you can't control your players as if they'd be robots, but that's exactly the point. Similarily to other attributes and PPMs (Robben's "one-trick-ponyness", and injury proneness anyone?) either you can take and embrace what these guys have on offer both good and bad an deal with the consequences of their style or you don't. But either way, it is something you must consider, as any manager would in real-life.

I was specifically referring to the pre- and post-match press conferences. No matter what you answer to the questions about the lack of discipline, in no way you get some sort of reaction from the players.

As for bans and fines, there's definitely a lot to do from SI, IMO:

Double yellow card, one match ban = warning.

Direct red card, one or three match ban = fine.

That's it. Every other option is excluded. (For instance, if you fine a player after a double yellow card, he'll get angry and may even ask to be sold. Doesn't matter how stupid or violent his foul was, doesn't matter if his dismissal wasn't justified, doesn't if whether his lack of discipline cost you the CL and so on).

[Ranquelme]

In my Milan save, my rivalry with Juventus was sorta spoiled with Vidal being sent off nearly every game I played against them. It was a foregone conclusion. He was sent off I think 7 times in 12/13 games against me. All double yellows in a short span of time. In the screenshot which shows Cana's ridiculous record, Vidal was second with similar statistics.

[Federico]

I'm curious to find out what this problem is related to.

Do you think it's due to a wrong evaluation of his mental attributes by researchers? Or something wrong with the engine? Both probably?

Sure thing is: something must be done.

[Svenc]

I'm telling you, I've started at least 5 saves with Juve using at least 5 different tactics. Vidal and his teammates with aggression 16+ can either be "your average hard-working players who collects one yellow card every two matches" or "psychos who gets sent off every other match", depending on the tactic. Or maybe it's just pure randomness?

I'm not claiming that this wouldn't ever happen. But I've simulated a couple months of Serie A on full detail so many times now. I let Juve be managed by AI managers, I managed them myself with different formations and even set Vidal occassionally on the hardest possible tackling settings. And I've never actually seen anything as mental.

In fact, it looked like this at its most aggressive (December 2012 each): http://www.pic-upload.de/view-20605225/vidal.png.html

This was a case where I even set him to hard tackling manually: http://www.pic-upload.de/view-20605234/vidal2.png.html

Are you all on patch 13.3.3?

edit: That said though, there are always a handful of players who average a booking a match or thereabouts, which indeed looks far too excessive and is probably the problem in the long-run, as eventually a match-ban in Serie A is applied after just two yellow cards (for the first ban it's four, then three, then two). This is different to say the Bundesliga for instance: In the Bundesliga it remains a limit of 5 yellows throughout. It isn't all random though, in fact Radja Nainggolan almost always tops the charts, and given his real-life record, that isn't too far off the mark: http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/serie-a/suenderkartei/wettbewerb_IT1_2012.html

Still, there are players that collect simple bookings too frequently. In real-life the most booked players average about 0.5 to 0.6 cards a match. In FM 2013 it's more like 0.8 or 1.0, even, significantly more than in FM 2012. It's worth remembering that prior matches were cut about twenty minutes and the corresponding actions short, i.e. time used to be more compressed than what it is now (90 minutes "real-time"). Maybe FM 2014 will already see a better job in balancing this out.

[aq_extreme]

Same thing happened to me, every time he got a yellow card, I had to sub him quickly, because if I don't sub him, he will get a red card.

And in the end, I had to sell him. I don't want to have a player like that in my team.

[Shake Appeal]

After 500+ hours of FM13 and quite a lot of time in a Juve save, I'm happy to call this one as broken. Whatever combination of attributes and traits Vidal has cause him to be an absolute monster, worse than any other player I have managed. It's not fair to the player himself (who is one of the best in the world, and whose disciplinary record is far from what the game simulates), and even setting his tackling to easy doesn't fully address it.

[Shake Appeal]

In real life, in his two seasons and 70+ appearances with Juventus, Arturo Vidal has picked up exactly one red card, and averages a yellow about once every 2.5-3 games.

[Tactically_inept]

the only way I stopped vidal from getting disciplinary problems so much was using a very possession based tactic if u have the ball more he is less prone to need to tackle he did still get sent off for violent conduct quite a lot though grrrr

I wouldn't set his tackling to easy though it is one of his strengths and could weaken his overall game.

[Nik_Dut]

SI need to implement into the game where players get sick of getting so many card, they turn into card supplier on eBay or make a new career as referee.

Loved to see Ibrahimovic, Van Bommel, De Jong and Vidal in charge