ramoniazzz Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Hi, I'm just wondering why it is that an average player in the Turkish first division is worth approximately three times more than a similar player in my competition (Czech first division) whilst the difference in club reputation is only half a star. Are there more factors that determine a players value despite, obviously, its qualities and the club and competition reputation? Kind regards, ramoniazzz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Hacker Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 The values of players are decided based on reputation, and also by settings which are specific to each nation. You can have a look at those settings in the editor. It is probably likely that this is the problem, and Turkey simply has higher values set. Of course it could be something as simple as the contract length which is causing the problem, are these two similarly average players on similar wages and do their contracts expire at similar times? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramoniazzz Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 My player has a longer contract length and a lower wage (only about 5k lower). Concerning the reputations; the difference in competition reputation (which I believe is a huge factor in this) is only half a star so I don't understand why the value of the players differ so much -> a few millions to approximately 500k whilst my player is maybe even better. See, my project is to raise the level of the Czech competition so that it can become a competitor to the present top leagues. However, if the value of my players remains as lowly as it is whilst the quality of my players is actually very high for any Czech team, it is going to get really tough because the only large income I receive is the Champions League money and this isn't enough to get me where I want to be. That's why I would like to know why it is that my players aren't much a lot whilst they are actually pretty good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Hacker Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I checked in the editor, and the Czech Republic's player values are higher than Turkey's at lower levels. That is, players of the same level will be valued higher in the Czech system until their reputation reaches a certain level. Between 5000-5500 the numbers change. Turkey overtakes the Czech Republic, with a value of £173000 to £100000. What's really confusing is that for the next level up Turkey-based players are valued at £652000 while Czech-based ones of the same reputation are valued at only £200000. Then after that Turkey moves again up to £2608695 while the Czech Republic lags on £450000. So as I stated earlier, it's due to the settings given to both of those countries in the database. As for why there is such a discrepancy I don't know, you'll have to take that to the bugs forum and hope for an answer or you can hold out on a member of SI to explain it. It does seem to me like quite a large difference, but it does also reflect the greater exposure which the Turkish league gets in real life and I'm not sure if the game makes these changes dynamically... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Turkish leagues have generally been richer recently, even if the rep is similar, so this will affect sale prices. OP, don't worry too much about the written "value", if they are a good player you can sell them for a hell of a lot more than it, and if there aren't clubs interested then you can't sell players for anything close to the "value", so it has no use for the purposes you are trying to read into it, and isn't affecting the wealth of you club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramoniazzz Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 Cheers, that really helps. Well I'm not going to make a big fuss out of it but it is unfortunate... Does this information mean that no matter how hard I try, the value of the players in Czech Republic won't reach the high standards in the top competitions, even though the competition might become one of the best in the world? I really appreciate your help! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramoniazzz Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 Turkish leagues have generally been richer recently, even if the rep is similar, so this will affect sale prices.OP, don't worry too much about the written "value", if they are a good player you can sell them for a hell of a lot more than it, and if there aren't clubs interested then you can't sell players for anything close to the "value", so it has no use for the purposes you are trying to read into it, and isn't affecting the wealth of you club. That's 100% true, but the value is an indicator for how much I can ask a club. For example, I have this really really talented striker. I'm sure that he would be worth 10 mln already, had he signed for a top club in England/Spain/Germany or any other top competition. Now, he's only worth 600k. And of course I won't sell him for 600k but I won't be able to ask 20 mln for him if a European giant pops up because it would be way too high compared to his actual value. Had his value been 5 mln in that case, I could easily ask 10-15 mln and actually sell him for that amount of cash whilst now I think 6 or 7 mln is about all I can get for him. And then I'd be really lucky. Another thing I find really confusing is when a (for example) English club in the Premier League loans one of my players, his value rises about 400%. Now this obviously is because of the different reputations of both the competition and the club, but I really benevited because I could sell him for his market value in the Premier League, that being so much higher than his value in the Czech competition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 That's 100% true, but the value is an indicator for how much I can ask a club. For example, I have this really really talented striker. I'm sure that he would be worth 10 mln already, had he signed for a top club in England/Spain/Germany or any other top competition. Now, he's only worth 600k. And of course I won't sell him for 600k but I won't be able to ask 20 mln for him if a European giant pops up because it would be way too high compared to his actual value. Had his value been 5 mln in that case, I could easily ask 10-15 mln and actually sell him for that amount of cash whilst now I think 6 or 7 mln is about all I can get for him. And then I'd be really lucky. . I don't agree with the link between the two you create here, though I can't say 100%. I really don't think the link exists of its own accord though. Perhaps other features like rep affect it and mean that if one is high the other will be high etc, but I don't think there is a direct nexus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown Hacker Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 That's 100% true, but the value is an indicator for how much I can ask a club. For example, I have this really really talented striker. I'm sure that he would be worth 10 mln already, had he signed for a top club in England/Spain/Germany or any other top competition. Now, he's only worth 600k. And of course I won't sell him for 600k but I won't be able to ask 20 mln for him if a European giant pops up because it would be way too high compared to his actual value. Had his value been 5 mln in that case, I could easily ask 10-15 mln and actually sell him for that amount of cash whilst now I think 6 or 7 mln is about all I can get for him. And then I'd be really lucky. Another thing I find really confusing is when a (for example) English club in the Premier League loans one of my players, his value rises about 400%. Now this obviously is because of the different reputations of both the competition and the club, but I really benevited because I could sell him for his market value in the Premier League, that being so much higher than his value in the Czech competition. What is the highest price that has ever been paid for a player from the Czech League system?EDIT: Aside from Rosicky who went for a decent sum there is no history of players going to major European leagues for anywhere near that money from the Czech league. So you may wish to reappraise your estimate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramoniazzz Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 I don't agree with the link between the two you create here, though I can't say 100%. I really don't think the link exists of its own accord though.Perhaps other features like rep affect it and mean that if one is high the other will be high etc, but I don't think there is a direct nexus Sorry I might have expressed myself wrongly. What I tried to say is that I'm being disadvantaged by the fact that my players are worth a quarter (or less) of what they would be worth in any top league. If they had been worth more, which I believe is due to the club and competition reputation combined with a players qualities (Is this what we disagree on?), I could sell them for more and gain more money out if it, which I'll be needing in my mission to turn the Czech competition into a top league. But, since the reputation of the Turkish and the Czech league in my game is minor (only half a star), I find it rather odd that my players are worth only a small fraction of what the players in the Turkish league are worth, whilst comparing closely similar players. That's why my question is whether this all depends on the reputations of both the club and the competition (and the quality of the player) or if there are more factors that influence a players value which, in turn, will result in higher bids for my players. Once again sorry if I expressed myself vaguely. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramoniazzz Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 What is the highest price that has ever been paid for a player from the Czech League system?EDIT: Aside from Rosicky who went for a decent sum there is no history of players going to major European leagues for anywhere near that money from the Czech league. So you may wish to reappraise your estimate. You're absolutely right, I forgot to mention that I'm currently in season '15-'16 and that the reputation of the Czech competition has already increased a lot and therefore I believe my players should be worth more than they currently are because I'm nearly on the same level as the Turkish competition and the average player in Turkey is worth loads more than mine whilst on similar levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herbert Fandel Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I'm saying you should be able to sell them for as much as you want, the written value has no bearing on it. If the Czech league is increasing in rep then that should be what clubs look at, not the 'value'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramoniazzz Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 Of course, once again I agree with you, but I think those are the rules of real life football and not Football Manager... I get the impression that the clubs let their offer depend on the player's value only, which is why it is really hard to make a deal with a club at a price which is 4 times a player's actual value even though you would think that your player is worth that kind of money. Indeed, clubs should be looking at the increasing reputation of the competition and not a player's written value, but I don't think they actually do... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramoniazzz Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 One month later, my club's rep is higher than Fenerbahce's club rep and the competition rep of the Czech league is higher than the Turkish competition rep and still players in Turkey are worth approximately 3 times more than they are in the Czech Republic whilst on similar level... I just don't get it!! Edit: The only factor remaining is the difference in wage... Could this be the case? Can a player's wage determine it's 'written' value? Cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smac Posted July 5, 2013 Share Posted July 5, 2013 Its a question of whether the economics in the database change or not at this point. Your experience seems to indicate that these figures do not change, which would be a bit surprising. On the one hand, it is beyond the scope of FM to simulate general world economics so some variation in wealth is to be expected as static. On the other hand that model of player valuations at various reps as outlined above is quite specific and would be a bit wooden if it never changed alongside league reputation. As a bit of a programmer I'm going to guess that these values do NOT change. The ratios across reps are non-linear to begin with so it would be fairly complex to apply some reputation-change algorithm to them I would imagine. EG, if a player is worth 100k at personal reputation 4000 and league rep 5000, then you'd think that maybe he'd be worth say 200k at league rep 6000 and 500k at league rep 7000, all the way up to say 2m at top reputation. However you can see that as player rep increases player value increases differently for Turkey and Czech players. I assume this is to model the general league economics as they are today. Top Turkish players are part of the larger EU market more generally so their values rise to meet top values around Europe whereas apparently top Czech players are more insulated from that effect. It is highly unlikely that this is modeled anywhere as a living economics and much more likely that it is a cookie-cutter applied to all players in each league statically. I do agree that that would create a problem long term for you as no matter what you do your players will still be valued as if Czech isn't much part of larger economic pressures. I do think this will be problematic as far as buying and selling players. EG: If you buy a 5m CB from France, he'll be worth 700k internally and this I think will be reflected in the sale price you'll eventually be able to get for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramoniazzz Posted July 6, 2013 Author Share Posted July 6, 2013 Sir, I thank you for this explanation. I'll report once again after I've won the Champions League, hopefully this will affect it in some way... And if it doesn't, I'll have to face the fact that they'll never get a much higher written value. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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