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Tax, rising...alarming rate

ljwjones

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fmFutbolManager

fmFutbolManager

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Capital Gains Tax is only charged on individuals so doesn't apply. VAT on transfers could be relevant though. If you signed a number of players who's fees are being paid in installments then there's 20% VAT to pay on each payment (In UK at least. VAT rates vary across Europe).

Um. What is your source? Capital Gains Tax is chargeable when you make a profit on sold business assets. At least that's what they told me in business school... Oh an HMRC seem to think so too...

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/cgt/businesses/basics.htm

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Ranquelme

Ranquelme

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Tax last three seasons;

2016/2017 - £24m

2017/2018 - £132,5m

2018/2019 - £189,5m

Exactly the same squad the last two seasons, except some minor player releases. Nothing bought. A couple of first teamers got a new contract.

It's almost like i'm paying tax for every player i've ever had in my squad(and their new contract-bumps with other clubs).

Almost £200m on tax!?

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luka_zg

luka_zg

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Tax last three seasons;

2016/2017 - £24m

2017/2018 - £132,5m

2018/2019 - £189,5m

Exactly the same squad the last two seasons, except some minor player releases. Nothing bought. A couple of first teamers got a new contract.

It's almost like i'm paying tax for every player i've ever had in my squad(and their new contract-bumps with other clubs).

I don't really think this is possible? How are you not in bancrupcy if you have to pay just on tax 190 mil? what is your income then? I think you're trolling a bit..

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fmFutbolManager

fmFutbolManager

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A word here from SI would be useful, even if it was just to say "There is a problem we are looking into it" or "These is how it is meant to work"

I really don't think that word will be 'this is how it's meant to work'. Not based on the below.

Tax last three seasons;

2016/2017 - £24m

2017/2018 - £132,5m

2018/2019 - £189,5m

Exactly the same squad the last two seasons, except some minor player releases. Nothing bought. A couple of first teamers got a new contract.

It's almost like i'm paying tax for every player i've ever had in my squad(and their new contract-bumps with other clubs).

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rayr27

rayr27

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You don't charge VAT on people....

Football clubs don't buy and sell people. They purchase registrations and buy out contracts. Otherwise it would be covered by slavery laws. VAT definitely applies. I would have thought the publicised transfer fee would be VAT inclusinve but I've not seen anything definitive either way.

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fmFutbolManager

fmFutbolManager

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Fair play. My wires crossed there obviously.

Hey no worries. As I said there might be a CGT applicable. But I just don't know. A player is an asset, in some sense. If you purchase a player for £12m and sell him for £80m you know Mr Tax Man is going to be sniffing around somewhere asking for a cut of that pie.

Highly strange SI have not commented on this at all.

They've said it's something they're looking at in the general feedback thread. However, worryingly they're talking about making taxes more transparent, rather than confirming that there is a bug. Which could lead me to believe they're not fixing, rather than showing more information.

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Klamer

Klamer

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What we dont know from Klamer is what happened in season 16/17, did he win the league or get into europe or something? If this jamp without anything changing id be very worried.

Won ch.league 16/17 and the next season. But still... Why win the ch.league if it puts me into bankruptcy?

Luka_: Yes. Next season i will be £200m in dept. The thing that has rescued me until now is that i've sold players for £374m and baught for £207m since 2012.

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spankie

spankie

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Hey no worries. As I said there might be a CGT applicable. But I just don't know. A player is an asset, in some sense. If you purchase a player for £12m and sell him for £80m you know Mr Tax Man is going to be sniffing around somewhere asking for a cut of that pie.

They've said it's something they're looking at in the general feedback thread. However, worryingly they're talking about making taxes more transparent, rather than confirming that there is a bug. Which could lead me to believe they're not fixing, rather than showing more information.

Actually what they said was

It's something we're looking into - we're aware it's not particularly clear in game which is also causing some confusion but we're looking investigating to make sure there's nothing wrong in there. Thanks.

So they are checking it to make sure it is working correctly.

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Katarian

Katarian

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Yes but they have said they are investigating if a bug does actually exist, at the moment know one knows, we're all just assuming there is.

I would say that there does look like there might be a problem this year, but I pretty sure there were similar posts for FM12 for both taxes and non-footballing costs. Not as many as there have been this year, but it has always been a problem having costs that aren't explained to the player.

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milnerpoint

milnerpoint

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You can sort this yourself on any new game if you want it, just remove the bottom two corporation taxes in the editor, basically the game is charging you twice for corporation tax so you lose about 24% extra of the profit from the previous season. If you remove these from the game you will only be charged for the current corporation tax, those who mess around with 3rd party tools can also do this with ongoing saves, but obviously we cant speak about them on here but id be happy to advise through a PM if anyone wants.

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Ginola79

Ginola79

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Epic reply Ginola, pffft.

I dont think you got it - I actually agreed with you - try search for my posts around. Testing has not been good this year at all - I bought the game got into beta and by tradition invited my cousin to come and play - after playing and watching 7-8 full matches to tweak tactics like we always do, we both came to the conclusion that this was not good and played FM2012 the rest of the week :) But when thats said I believe it will be better - I hope :)

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milnerpoint

milnerpoint

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The thing is, this isnt actually as crippling as it seems, your only losing an extra 22% on the profit from the previous season, so really only the clubs clearing a huge profit are suffereing most from this issue.

Taxes are going to make a huge difference to the finances anyway this year, some will experience huge losses without this bug being present, dont get into the trap of blaming all your losses on this issue. Its also worth nothing it only affects certain countries, that have future coroporation taxes set in the database, so Spain, or Germany are not affected at all, i havent searched every nation to see which ones actually are, so far it seems to only really affect UK based clubs. The Italian one is completely different and not a bug as such, more a database error.

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Bryna robson

Bryna robson

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I dont think you got it - I actually agreed with you - try search for my posts around. Testing has not been good this year at all - I bought the game got into beta and by tradition invited my cousin to come and play - after playing and watching 7-8 full matches to tweak tactics like we always do, we both came to the conclusion that this was not good and played FM2012 the rest of the week :) But when thats said I believe it will be better - I hope :)

^My mistake pal.

Chancellor George Osbourne would be loving the Corp tax paid in FM, Starbucks not so much.

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Ginola79

Ginola79

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My FcPorto save does not agree Milner :) Still this should be quite easy to pick up doing tests like other major/minor stuff around - if my cousin, who is not the sharpest knife in the drawer, come to this conslusion in less than 8 hours playing. The case is it gets fixed, but sharpen up the testing isent a big demand after this release :)

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Kweck

Kweck

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Looks like I will have to make a donation and get FMRTE as I don't want to start a new save, can someone confirm that this is actually doable on FMRTE (not how you do it) before I go and get it.

Heres what you want to do while in FMRTE:

- Search for England

- Choose England (Nation) under search results

- Go to the Tax Rules tab on England

- Go to the lines that says Corporation Tax for year 2013 and 2014

- Edit them in any way you see fit

- Save in FMRTE

Should work, deleting them alltogether doesnt as they just come back.

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Ginola79

Ginola79

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Does Portugal have a future corporation tax set up in the editor? I havent looked at them as that league is not loaded in my set up.

I dont have the save game anymore, but what I saw was some fishy stuff going on - it could be a problem for clubs on a long-term who does not have a sugar daddy or have an impact on the seasons to come too - it depends on alot of stuff and in modern football, money makes you often win more. QPR is another matter :)

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milnerpoint

milnerpoint

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Then its not related, the bug is only to do with a future corporation tax being charged ontp of the existing one. From what i know Portugal is not doing so well financially anyway, so id imagine keeping Porto going will be quite tough.

Teams like QPR, or Man City or Chelsea wont have a problem as they have sugar daddys, so any money they pump in is not counted towards the tax issue.

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luka_zg

luka_zg

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Then its not related, the bug is only to do with a future corporation tax being charged ontp of the existing one. From what i know Portugal is not doing so well financially anyway, so id imagine keeping Porto going will be quite tough.

Teams like QPR, or Man City or Chelsea wont have a problem as they have sugar daddys, so any money they pump in is not counted towards the tax issue.

Actually on my game Porto just won second succesive Champions League..they bought Kagawa for 34 million in winter transfer window..I think they are full of cash :D

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