Jump to content
Sports Interactive Community

Senegal's Arsenal Thread 2012/2013 : featuring positive negativity

Retro

By Retro,
in Football Thread Vault

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 11.1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Sy13

Sy13

Posted
Posted

I miss Bergkamp, Henry, Vieira, Petit, Pires, Ljungberg, Adams, Campbell, Seaman, Fabregas.

But hey, let's settle for mediocrity instead.

Rumours of bust up between Wenger and Bould coming out and that Wenger has lost the dressing room. Please be true.

Link to post
Share on other sites
djvandyke

djvandyke

Posted
Posted

The allegation is that Steve Bould was promoted by Liam Brady and Wenger has frozen Bould out, restricting his time with the first team preventing him from implementing the necessary changes.

Wenger and Bould are barley Speaking and the row has also caused a rift with Liam Brady.

Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SJ234

SJ234

Posted
Posted

The biggest issue with the anti wenger brigade on here is not their conclusion but what they use to justify it. They seem to think management is simple and Wenger is completely useless and everything he does is clearly wrong and he almost intentionally ignores the issues because he doesn't openly talk about them. At least be reasonable with your criticisms instead of childish and pathetic

Link to post
Share on other sites
Henry_14

Henry_14

Posted
Posted
And this is from?

having googled it, it seems that Stewart Robson has inplied he heard from "someone else" that there might be a rift, becaue we arnt defending well it must be because wenger wont let Bould have his own way. Daily mail and talk sport picked up on it. Best line in amongst it all was from Talk sport:

"But former Highbury favourite Robson believes there may be friction between the ex-Sunderland star and the Frenchman, which has lead to some poor defensive displays by the north London side."

Robsons the Highbury favourite and Bould is only an ex-Sunderland Star :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
ajw10

ajw10

Posted
Posted

But then you have to remember that Kos worked really hard after the own goal and defended really well. At least Kos responds and tries to win games. Vermaelen doesn't. This is the difference. Mistakes are acceptable, laziness is not.

Link to post
Share on other sites
chris79

chris79

Posted
Posted

In terms of points and position, the season is far from being lost. But we'd need to play a lot better sooner rather than later.

Vermaelen has been even worse than last season. So far Koscielny's form was justifying keeping TV in the squad, but IMO nothing does anymore, even if it means playing Djourou or Ignasi there. Both were solid against Reading and solid is enough to be better than TV atm. I agree it is natural to play Kos, however. Mertesacker has been our best central defender for months now.

Maybe this (again) will make Wenger change his approach. We are too static when in possession and something needs to be done - if players are not feeling 100% well physically then we need to change the players or tactics. Like others, I would like to see Cazorla on the wing, closer to the opposition area. Podolski should be dropped for a while, and Theo deserves to play even if he was invisible yesterday. AA could be useful, but especially against tight defenses, so in EPL games mostly. No point in having Ramsey in such games, especially on the wing.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SJ234

SJ234

Posted
Posted
having googled it, it seems that Stewart Robson has inplied he heard from "someone else" that there might be a rift, becaue we arnt defending well it must be because wenger wont let Bould have his own way. Daily mail and talk sport picked up on it. Best line in amongst it all was from Talk sport:"But former Highbury favourite Robson believes there may be friction between the ex-Sunderland star and the Frenchman, which has lead to some poor defensive displays by the north London side."Robsons the Highbury favourite and Bould is only an ex-Sunderland Star :D
The same robson who has a huge axe to grind as Wenger judas nothing to do with him. Hilarious.Cazorla has to stick to the middle for me. However there needs to be more intelligence in that area so we create as much space a possible there and also look to not be just reliant on him and arteta. Yesterday Wilshere should have got more involved in the playmakint deeper therefore nullifying Rooney's sitting on arteta
Link to post
Share on other sites
Falahk

Falahk

Posted
Posted

kind of suprising that Wenger have not tried to play Arshavin as the central attacking midfielder and Cazorla out wide.......but then again we cant really expect him to play players in there natural positions, now can we?

Link to post
Share on other sites
SteveUK

SteveUK

Posted
Posted

Ex-Sunderland star? Bould?:herman:He only played for them a few handful of times, hardly what i would call a star, talk sport is hilarious though, it should really be called Talk ****.

@Falahk - yeah id like to see Arshavin in that central role with the good players of our team around him, not the ***** he had around him against reading

Schalke line up for me would be - Vito(unless Chez is fit) - Jenki's, Mertersacker, Kosh, Vermaelen(or sagna) - Arteta, Wilshere, Arshavin - Cazorla, Walcott - Giroud

Link to post
Share on other sites
djvandyke

djvandyke

Posted
Posted
The biggest issue with the anti Wenger brigade on here is not their conclusion but what they use to justify it. They seem to think management is simple and Wenger is completely useless and everything he does is clearly wrong and he almost intentionally ignores the issues because he doesn't openly talk about them. At least be reasonable with your criticisms instead of childish and pathetic

No, my conclusion is based on the fact he has failed to address those issues holding us back. Everybody in football other than the few remaining Wenger loyalists can see the fundamental flaws in the way our side our managed.

If we are to accept that Wenger is aware of these long standing issues then his failure to deal with them implies incompetence.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SJ234

SJ234

Posted
Posted
No, my conclusion is based on the fact he has failed to address those issues holding us back. Everybody in football other than the few remaining Wenger loyalists can see the fundamental flaws in the way our side our managed.

If we are to accept that Wenger is aware of these long standing issues then his failure to deal with them implies incompetence.

Everybody in football? He is very highly thought of and most people still believe he should remain in the job. This is the issue with your arguments you are so prone to exaggerate. Your last sentence is flawed as you are making the assumption that he has the resources/isn't blocked by whatever from rectifying the issues

Link to post
Share on other sites
MoldeFK15

MoldeFK15

Posted
Posted
Everybody in football? He is very highly thought of and most people still believe he should remain in the job. This is the issue with your arguments you are so prone to exaggerate. Your last sentence is flawed as you are making the assumption that he has the resources/isn't blocked by whatever from rectifying the issues

Brian Clough was "very highly thought of" and there was very scarce criticism when it was suggested he would part with Forest when they looked doomed.

No self respecting PL manager would claim that Arsenal 'should' part with him.

Until there is conclusive evidence that he is being hamstrung by the board then his management over recent seasons must be called into question.

Link to post
Share on other sites
bergkamp

bergkamp

Posted
Posted

Can I just say, I support Wenger and believe he should stay in the job. I say this because I still think he is capable of winning trophies, still think his blooding of young players is fantastic, still think his judgement in the transfer market is great, plays great football, and is a good tactician (alright, maybe not his strongest attribute). I still believe he knows what's required to win the big trophies, I cannot believe that someone as intelligent, talented and experienced as him has lost it. I still think that he is not prepared to settle for mediocrity and has huge ambition for the club. That's my opinion.

However, you cannot dismiss people who have ran out of patience with him. You cannot dismiss the fact that we haven't won anything in 7 years and that there is evidence that suggests that we are slipping further and further behind. The age old debate about whether Wenger really spends what's available to him. His faith in certain players and his tactical/team selection decisions on occasions. You cannot just laugh off people who have these opinions of him. Just saying.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sy13

Sy13

Posted
Posted
Can I just say, I support Wenger and believe he should stay in the job. I say this because I still think he is capable of winning trophies, still think his blooding of young players is fantastic, still think his judgement in the transfer market is great, plays great football, and is a good tactician (alright, maybe not his strongest attribute). I still believe he knows what's required to win the big trophies, I cannot believe that someone as intelligent, talented and experienced as him has lost it. I still think that he is not prepared to settle for mediocrity and has huge ambition for the club. That's my opinion.

However, you cannot dismiss people who have ran out of patience with him. You cannot dismiss the fact that we haven't won anything in 7 years and that there is evidence that suggests that we are slipping further and further behind. The age old debate about whether Wenger really spends what's available to him. His faith in certain players and his tactical/team selection decisions on occasions. You cannot just laugh off people who have these opinions of him. Just saying.

Very well said. However, I don't know how you can claim Wenger has great judgement in the transfer market. He has consistently sold our best players and replaced them with names like Park, Santos, Ramsey, Gerv, Giroud etc. It is precisely Wenger's failings that has meant we've got a worse team year-on-year.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sy13

Sy13

Posted
Posted
Yep, it's definitely Wenger who has sold our best players.

Not to mention that Gazidis gets either 10 or 15% cut (can't remember which) of every sale. Hardly surprising that selling your best striker in years to United was allowed when Gaz took home £3m to let it happen.

The whole club is poisoned.

RVP actually showed a lot of class not celebrating his goal. I don't hate him for leaving anymore, he's far too good for us these days.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Retro

Retro

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Can I just say, I support Wenger and believe he should stay in the job. I say this because I still think he is capable of winning trophies, still think his blooding of young players is fantastic, still think his judgement in the transfer market is great, plays great football, and is a good tactician (alright, maybe not his strongest attribute). I still believe he knows what's required to win the big trophies, I cannot believe that someone as intelligent, talented and experienced as him has lost it. I still think that he is not prepared to settle for mediocrity and has huge ambition for the club. That's my opinion.

However, you cannot dismiss people who have ran out of patience with him. You cannot dismiss the fact that we haven't won anything in 7 years and that there is evidence that suggests that we are slipping further and further behind. The age old debate about whether Wenger really spends what's available to him. His faith in certain players and his tactical/team selection decisions on occasions. You cannot just laugh off people who have these opinions of him. Just saying.

I don't dismiss people who have run out of patience with him or have doubts about him. There is a difference between people like that and people who actively want him to fail (there's a comment on the previous page which takes that tone). There's people who have decided they want him out and just look for anything that backs that up rather than being objective about it.

I am often critical of Wenger and I certainly don't agree with everything he does. I've not been very pleased with the club's dealings in the transfer market of late, and I do think we've fallen too far behind the big three (although I acknowledge that competing with them is extremely difficult). However I can be objective about it. There are idiots who believe we have some kind of bottomless pit when it comes to transfer funds which is blatantly not the case. It's clear our funds are limited. To what extent is unclear, but we can't just blow £100m on players that much is obvious.

As far as I am concerned, Wenger still deserves to remain in his job. We've qualified for the CL 15 years running. His status may change in the future, and then we'll get insecure cretins claiming they were right all along. But if we sacked every manager now because they will deserve it at some point - we'd have to sack virtually every manager in the league. He doesn't deserve to be sacked now... whether he will by the end of the season remains to seen.

Bottom line though is that I hope not. He really hope he's hugely successful and can get us moving forward again. I'll continue supporting him in the hope that he pulls it off, not looking for and hoping for him to fail.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SJ234

SJ234

Posted
Posted
Brian Clough was "very highly thought of" and there was very scarce criticism when it was suggested he would part with Forest when they looked doomed.

No self respecting PL manager would claim that Arsenal 'should' part with him.

Until there is conclusive evidence that he is being hamstrung by the board then his management over recent seasons must be called into question.

Why is football people restricted to managers that is just stupid. This situation is hardly the same as Clough. Why is it that conclusive evidence has to be found to prove that rather than find conclusive evidence to prove he isn't?

Very well said. However, I don't know how you can claim Wenger has great judgement in the transfer market. He has consistently sold our best players and replaced them with names like Park, Santos, Ramsey, Gerv, Giroud etc. It is precisely Wenger's failings that has meant we've got a worse team year-on-year.

The same Ramsey who was an excellent youngster and was very good for us pre-injury. The same Gervinho who was excellent for Lille and the same Giroud who was the top scorer in Ligue 1 last season.

Not to mention that Gazidis gets either 10 or 15% cut (can't remember which) of every sale. Hardly surprising that selling your best striker in years to United was allowed when Gaz took home £3m to let it happen.

The whole club is poisoned.

RVP actually showed a lot of class not celebrating his goal. I don't hate him for leaving anymore, he's far too good for us these days.

Where is that from? Seriously can't believe you thought RVP showed class that wasn't class it was a hollow gesture to help perpetuate his 'image' that he thinks he has created.

If you have such issues with the board how can you trust them with being able to do better than Wenger? I also have issues with the board but not Gazidis particularly he is just a mouthpiece for the owner.

Link to post
Share on other sites
PaulHartman71

PaulHartman71

Posted
Posted

I think a lot of it is just because people play FM and can't understand why the real world doesn't like that. On FM the club could've kept RVP and he would still play to best of his ability until leaving on a bosman, or you could sell him to another club other than United. But the real world doesn't work like that. If RVP for whatever reason has his heart set on leaving for United, then there's not much Wenger or Gazidis can do, this is the time of player power and if a player wants a move they will get it. If we kept him against his will he'd probably spend a year annoyed/angry at management, potentially spreading that bad atmosphere to the rest of the squad. He was captain at the time so they surely would have had to strip him of the captaincy, as who will want to play for a captain that doesn't even want to be at the club. If they keep RVP and we fail to qualify for CL next season, then we've lost a **** load of money and could very easily be the next Liverpool.

Perhaps the obvious reply to that is that I'm a "Wengerist that buys into the propaganda" etc etc, but I would rather be that and actually enjoy the wins we get and stay fond of the best manager the club has ever had. I'm not someone who supports the club because they win trophies, sure when we were winning trophies I was pleased, but I really don't care that much that we've had 7 years without winning anything. I don't see how we're supposed to compete with Chelsea, City or United any time soon, you can't help selling your best players if the other clubs are either offering more money or are actually more likely to win trophies. What's the point in following a club if you're just going to hate the manager as if he is a born again Hitler. Fans of clubs like Liverpool, Portsmouth, Wimbledon and Rangers have had a much much much worse time of it than we have, puts things into perspective.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sy13

Sy13

Posted
Posted
I think a lot of it is just because people play FM and can't understand why the real world doesn't like that. On FM the club could've kept RVP and he would still play to best of his ability until leaving on a bosman, or you could sell him to another club other than United. But the real world doesn't work like that. If RVP for whatever reason has his heart set on leaving for United, then there's not much Wenger or Gazidis can do, this is the time of player power and if a player wants a move they will get it. If we kept him against his will he'd probably spend a year annoyed/angry at management, potentially spreading that bad atmosphere to the rest of the squad. He was captain at the time so they surely would have had to strip him of the captaincy, as who will want to play for a captain that doesn't even want to be at the club. If they keep RVP and we fail to qualify for CL next season, then we've lost a **** load of money and could very easily be the next Liverpool.

Yeah because we're really doing well to swerve that one aren't we!?

Link to post
Share on other sites
djvandyke

djvandyke

Posted
Posted
If RVP for whatever reason has his heart set on leaving for United, then there's not much Wenger or Gazidis can do.

It’s not for “whatever reason”. Van Persie was very explicit that the way Wenger and Gazidis are running the club [into the ground] is the very reason he left. Of course they have no solution when they are the problem.

Robin van Persie's official statement to Arsenal fans

"This is an update for the fans about my current situation. I have kept quiet all this time out of respect and loyalty for the club and as agreed with Mr. Gazidis and Mr. Wenger, but since there is so much speculation in the media, I think it is fair for you guys to know what’s really going on at the moment.

"As announced earlier this year I had a meeting with the Boss and Mr. Gazidis after the season. This was a meeting about the club’s future strategy and their policy. Financial terms or a contract have not been discussed, since that is not my priority at all.

"I personally have had a great season but my goal has been to win trophies with the team and to bring the club back to its glory days.

"Out of my huge respect for Mr. Wenger, the players and the fans I don’t want to go into any details, but unfortunately in this meeting it has again become clear to me that we in many aspects disagree on the way Arsenal FC should move forward.

"I’ve thought long and hard about it, but I have decided not to extend my contract. You guys, the fans, have of course the right to disagree with my view and decision and I will always respect your opinions.

"I love the club and the fans, no matter what happens. I have grown up and became a man during my time with Arsenal FC. Everybody at the club and the fans have always supported me over the years and I have always given my all (and more) on and off the pitch.

"I am very proud of being part of this fantastic club for the last 8 years. As soon as Mr. Gazidis is back from his 2-week holiday in America further meetings will follow and I will update you if and when there are more developments."

Link to post
Share on other sites
Dale Gribble

Dale Gribble

Posted
Posted

Let's consider Liverpool here, a club in a very similar situation, a big club who are used to winning everything but are now in a rut.

They've pretty much done exactly what Sy etc want, rich owners have taken over, sacked managers and employed the current managerial flavours of the month, and also invested a load of money into the transfer market, buying proven expensive players. How has that worked out for them compared to Wenger's way?

It's all well and good imagining someone new will come in, spend his riches on great players and we'll challenge for the title immediately, but that won't necessarily happen.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Sy13

Sy13

Posted
Posted
Let's consider Liverpool here, a club in a very similar situation, a big club who are used to winning everything but are now in a rut.

They've pretty much done exactly what Sy etc want, rich owners have taken over, sacked managers and employed the current managerial flavours of the month, and also invested a load of money into the transfer market, buying proven expensive players. How has that worked out for them compared to Wenger's way?

It's all well and good imagining someone new will come in, spend his riches on great players and we'll challenge for the title immediately, but that won't necessarily happen.

Which proven Liverpool players are you talking about exactly? Carroll? Henderson? Downing? Borini?

You seem to forget they also sold their best players (Alonso, Owen, Garcia, Mascherrano, Torres etc) and didn't replace them with equal or better quality. The only difference is we haven't slipped out of the top 4 yet but I think this will be the year. If that happens you can say goodbye to players like Cazorla, TV5, maybe Wilshere etc.

I want a change now to try and avoid that. It might not work but if we leave things as they are we will go the same way eventually. I do not trust Wenger or the board to act in the best interests of the fans anymore.

Link to post
Share on other sites
SJ234

SJ234

Posted
Posted
He doesn't need to.
Hahahahahahahahahaha. So wait RVP should have been telling wenger what to do on the basis of what? His clearly superior managerial make up? Just madness. I am sure he knows more than wenger despite ones superior experience and proven ability and the other just being an arrogant player.
goodbye to players like Vermaelen? OH NO. HOW WILL WE SURVIVE?
His attitude against man u was horrific. Sy's post was bad in a lot of places particularly factually.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Sy13

Sy13

Posted
Posted
Hahahahahahahahahaha. So wait RVP should have been telling wenger what to do on the basis of what? His clearly superior managerial make up? Just madness. I am sure he knows more than wenger despite ones superior experience and proven ability and the other just being an arrogant player. His attitude against man u was horrific. Sy's post was bad in a lot of places particularly factually.

Condemning another users post without saying why as usual :rolleyes:

Link to post
Share on other sites
SJ234

SJ234

Posted
Posted
Condemning another users post without saying why as usual :rolleyes:

I often say why but your post is factually flawed. I agree with the main idea behind your post tbh, which is that just because Liverpool failed doesn't mean we should fear spending. I just have better things to do than take everything you say apart

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...