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Senegal's Arsenal Thread 2012/2013 : featuring positive negativity

Retro

By Retro,
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ajw10

ajw10

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I've thought about him too and I think he'd do a decent job but in the long term I wouldn't want him to take us forward for the next 10 plus years and that's what I'm looking for in a manager.

Why not? He's proven with Everton he can take a club forward over a long period of time.

Also, why do we need another long term manager? Wouldn't it be beneficial to have someone interested in the here and now?

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Sy13

Sy13

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Given that Chelsea's 'answer' was to hire Benitez, who the hell would we get halfway through a season?

He isn't going to get sacked yet. There's more chance that he'll resign, but I don't think he'll do that yet either. The same old whiners can keep going on like a broken record, but I'll be genuinely shocked if he went now and unless things get really dire, I'll be surprised if he goes before the end of the season even if it's apparent we aren't going to qualify for the CL.

How much more dire do you want it to get ffs???

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Sy13

Sy13

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We could end up like Blackburn, moan about getting him out and then get in someone either more incompetent than the last guy.

I do feel sorry for wenger as the board have made him a scape goat, but he should be wise enough to adapt his tactics to suit the players he has, that's what managers are meant to do i thought?

We wont return to glory till we spend **** loads of money, Ferguson kicks the bucket or the financial fair play has effect the arsenal board seem to think it will(which i highly doubt it will because you can bet there are teams of people at clubs working on the loop holes to abuse it), i personally was content finishing 4th every season, i got to see my team win a large percentage of games, and we finished above our rivals, theres no real reason we cant do that again this season, cause it could be alot worse, i could be a QPR fan, and then id wonder as a football fan why i bothered to wake up in the morning.

Utterly shameful statement. Why on earth would you be satisfied with just finishing 4th each year without competing for trophies when less than 10 years ago we were invincible???

Truly bizarre.

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SteveUK

SteveUK

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Utterly shameful statement. Why on earth would you be satisfied with just finishing 4th each year without competing for trophies when less than 10 years ago we were invincible???

Truly bizarre.

Because i got to see that amongst other things we achieved, a lot of football fan don't ever get to see that with their team in their life time.

I refer you to my previous statement that we are a bunch of spoilt over entitled brats :).

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Sy13

Sy13

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We're 5 points behind 3rd with 23 games to play - CRISIS!!!!

Is that seriously your argument???

Deary me, Wenger is bulletproof to some people, I see that now.

Arsene Wenger is NOT the man to turn Arsenal into a force again. Football has moved on, he hasn't. End of.

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josh_b

josh_b

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Utterly shameful statement. Why on earth would you be satisfied with just finishing 4th each year without competing for trophies when less than 10 years ago we were invincible???

Truly bizarre.

Because two of the teams above us have an unlimited budget and another is the most valuable team in all of sports. We cannot compete with all three of those at once. We might be able to finish ahead one, maybe two of them in year given good circumstances, but all three in one season is practically impossible without similar investment in us.

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Sy13

Sy13

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Because i got to see that amongst other things we achieved, a lot of football fan don't ever get to see that with their team in their life time.

I refer you to my previous statement that we are a bunch of spoilt over entitled brats :).

So you're saying that just because Norwich can't ever hope to win something that we should be grateful for 4th?

Words totally fail me.

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Retro

Retro

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Is that seriously your argument???

Deary me, Wenger is bulletproof to some people, I see that now.

Arsene Wenger is NOT the man to turn Arsenal into a force again. Football has moved on, he hasn't. End of.

My argument? You asked how much more dire things could get and I replied by implying that given that we're only 5 pts behind 3rd with 23 games left, that things could be a lot more dire.

If you want to ask me a question don't use my reply as a response to another one. Thanks

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Retro

Retro

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We won't finish in the top 4. We are definitely in a crisis.

I'm pretty sure I remember you saying very near the end of last season that we wouldn't finish 3rd, so your predictions aren't exactly reliable tbf. :D

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SteveUK

SteveUK

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So you're saying that just because Norwich can't ever hope to win something that we should be grateful for 4th?

Words totally fail me.

Yes, im personally grateful that my choice to support Arsenal, and not tottenham like my sister or west ham like my dad (christmas is always fun in this house hold) has brought me alot of joy and pleasure.

I agree with you on one thing though, football has moved on, and to get the aims that we would all like, wont happen just by changing manager, were talking money **** loads of it, and unless the board make that available it wont happen.

and Retro is right, as much as the previous results have been crap we arent far off in the league table, Chelsea are slipping up, so its pretty much a 2 horse race for the title, but 3rd and 4th is alot more open after Di Matteos sacking.

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SJ234

SJ234

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We won't finish in the top 4. We are definitely in a crisis.

i didn't realise you knew what would happen with more than half of the season to go.

Last season in about 5 games we were able to overhaul a lead of over 10 points.

This doesn't excuse the crap we are watching but people should get some perspective.

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ajw10

ajw10

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I'm pretty sure I remember you saying very near the end of last season that we wouldn't finish 3rd, so your predictions aren't exactly reliable tbf. :D

This side is much worse than that side. Wenger has lost the players too. No chance of us finishing 4th unless big changes are made.

How many games have we played well in all season? A 20 min spell against a ten men Spurs? Similar spell at Anfield?

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bergkamp

bergkamp

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We're 5 points behind 3rd with 23 games to play - CRISIS!!!!

Yes this is true, but just look at whats going on at this club. Look at how we're playing, thats the most worrying thing. The bad results aside, the performances are very low. Even if we'd gone 1-0 up today, it probably would have been another of those, foot of the gas, stop playing performances that have been all to familiar this season.

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Sy13

Sy13

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We're 5 points behind 3rd with 23 games to play - CRISIS!!!!

Ok, I will answer differently this time...

We are 12 (potentially 15) points off the top spot on December 1st.

That's the difference between me and you - you're happy looking for CL qualification, I want to win the league. You've been brainwashed by AW and the board. 4th place means nothing to me. Being a cup finalist means nothing. Being loyal to AW means nothing. Say what you like about Chelsea, they make changes and win 10 trophies. End of.

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Suggy33

Suggy33

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Ok, I will answer differently this time...

We are 12 (potentially 15) points off the top spot on December 1st.

That's the difference between me and you - you're happy looking for CL qualification, I want to win the league. You've been brainwashed by AW and the board. 4th place means nothing to me. Being a cup finalist means nothing. Being loyal to AW means nothing. Say what you like about Chelsea, they make changes and win 10 trophies. End of.

You have to accept that without huge foreign investment that it's going to be very difficult for us to challenge for the league title. With so many teams becoming stronger and stronger, we have done well to stick with the pace without massive investment in the squad. We do very well every season to still challenge for a top spot in one of the worlds toughest leagues.

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Retro

Retro

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Ok, I will answer differently this time...

We are 12 (potentially 15) points off the top spot on December 1st.

That's the difference between me and you - you're happy looking for CL qualification, I want to win the league. You've been brainwashed by AW and the board. 4th place means nothing to me. Being a cup finalist means nothing. Being loyal to AW means nothing. Say what you like about Chelsea, they make changes and win 10 trophies. End of.

Trust me... there are a LOT of differences between me and you as supporter.

The brainwashed stuff you come out with always cracks me up. It's the usual nonsense someone comes out with when they don't have the brainpower to comprehend that someone else may have a different opinion or attitude to them - there MUST be a reason surely? If the only way you can be happy as a supporter is for us to win the league, then that's up to you... I don't mind. Football to me is more than that and we certainly do differ in that regard. I don't care that you do, it's of no consequence to me.

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Sy13

Sy13

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You have to accept that without huge foreign investment that it's going to be very difficult for us to challenge for the league title. With so many teams becoming stronger and stronger, we have done well to stick with the pace without massive investment in the squad. We do very well every season to still challenge for a top spot in one of the worlds toughest leagues.

Without massive investment?

Giroud £13m

Podolski £11m

Cazorla £15m

Gerv £10.5m

Ox £12m

Arteta £10m

TV5 and Kos £10m each

Arshavin £15m

Nasri £16m

Now compare that to the HUGE money earned on player sales.

Let me ask you this - Gerv for nearly £11m or Michu for £2m. Who got the better deal?

West Brom, Everton, Swansea are all proving you don't need to spend huge money to be successful. Montpelier won the French league last season despite not having a single player on more than £15k/week compared to PSG.

If you're really saying we can never win anything because City and Chelsea have all the money then we might as well not compete at all.

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Suggy33

Suggy33

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Without massive investment?

Giroud £13m

Podolski £11m

Cazorla £15m

Gerv £10.5m

Ox £12m

Arteta £10m

TV5 and Kos £10m each

Arshavin £15m

Nasri £16m

Now compare that to the HUGE money earned on player sales.

Let me ask you this - Gerv for nearly £11m or Michu for £2m. Who got the better deal?

West Brom, Everton, Swansea are all proving you don't need to spend huge money to be successful. Montpelier won the French league last season despite not having a single player on more than £15k/week compared to PSG.

If you're really saying we can never win anything because City and Chelsea have all the money then we might as well not compete at all.

That list of spending is nothing compared to the likes of City, Chelsea etc. I like to think that in the past Arsenal have proved that you don't need to spend huge money to be successful also.

French league is so dynamic that the last 6 years have seen 6 different winners, so there's no comparison between it and the Prem.

Not saying we can't win, saying it's very difficult to do so. You need the right squad (which we don't have, there are still a few areas that need strengthening), a good spirit in the squad (I think we do normally have this, booing won't help though) and a lot of luck with injuries (which we don't seem to have had for a few years now).

I know people can make points of "Man Utd won the league with players out injured" but they have a stronger squad than ours, where an injured player can be covered better. Here, we have Djourou, Chamakh, Squillaci, Andre Santos etc. I'm not saying they're bad players, but with so much time spent out of the first XI, it's hard for them to step back in with a positive impact.

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ajw10

ajw10

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That list of spending is nothing compared to the likes of City, Chelsea etc. I like to think that in the past Arsenal have proved that you don't need to spend huge money to be successful also.

French league is so dynamic that the last 6 years have seen 6 different winners, so there's no comparison between it and the Prem.

Not saying we can't win, saying it's very difficult to do so. You need the right squad (which we don't have, there are still a few areas that need strengthening), a good spirit in the squad (I think we do normally have this, booing won't help though) and a lot of luck with injuries (which we don't seem to have had for a few years now).

I know people can make points of "Man Utd won the league with players out injured" but they have a stronger squad than ours, where an injured player can be covered better. Here, we have Djourou, Chamakh, Squillaci, Andre Santos etc. I'm not saying they're bad players, but with so much time spent out of the first XI, it's hard for them to step back in with a positive impact.

And who signed those players? Who thought it was a good idea to spend £11m on Gervinho? Or the same price on Podolski?

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Sy13

Sy13

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Where has this sense of entitlement that as an Arsenal fan we should expect a league win every season ffs, we're not Man United or Liverpool :D

Who on earth even suggested that?

I want Arsenal to compete for the league every season, no excuses. I do NOT expect a league win every season. Did I really have to spell that out for you?

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Suggy33

Suggy33

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Every signing is a risk. There's no question they all have ability. Henry, Pires, Ljungberg could have all suffered a serious injury, like Eduardo or Ramsey, and never got near the level they ended up playing at, but they didn't, and now they are legends.

Gervinho could have done a Hleb, and had a great second season, but he's stayed at the same sort of level as his first season, despite scoring a few goals. Podolski has been poor, but still been tucking the goals away from an unnatural position. I think it's a bit unfair to judge that signing till he's had a whole season.

Djourou came in as a teen, hardly a big waste. Chamakh on a free, started off great, got injured and never recovered his form. Squillaci signing excited me (and I'm sure, most of you, at first), experienced international CB, but we all know where that went. Santos I just do not like.

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ajw10

ajw10

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Well, Gervinho could not had done a Hleb at all. Mainly because Hleb had this thing called 'talent'.

The bottom line is Wenger has wasted money. And we are going backwards. It's not just his fault, but he is partly to blame for the current state of our club.

Podolski can't be bothered. he's a disgrace, you watch him during games like today and it's clear that he'd rather be anywhere but Arsenal.

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ajw10

ajw10

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Does Gervinho have talent? I have yet to see any evidence of this.

And Podolski's work rate is good when he wants it to be. Which isn't very often. He doesn't want to be at Arsenal and he doesn't want to be playing out wide. That much is obvious.

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ajw10

ajw10

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Ahhhh statistics. Statistics say that Ramsey is a good passer. Podolski can work hard, but chooses not to. Hence the statistics being favourable to him.

One of the huge issues in Gervinho's game is that he cannot control a football. Or pass. Or run. Or stay on his feet. Or head. Or tackle. Or shoot. Hmmm, what does he do?

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bluebirds4life

bluebirds4life

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Sy thinking you can challenge :D

Football and expectations generally is doing as well as you're budget/squad etc and the other factors involved.

Fact is you're squad isn't good enough to compete

Another is you should be higher than 10th

Top 16 in Europe is reasonable and top 8 would say is the very max expectation for you.

One thing which needs resolving is the

Mysteries regarding your budgets/some signings.

You are slightly underachieving.

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Candre168

Candre168

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First of all, this argument about us not having money is rubbish. If we stopped outrageously overpaying crap players like Squillaci, Djourou, Denilson and Chamakh, there might be more money to spend on transfer fees. I mean jesus, wasn't Park Chu Young on 40k a week? There's no way Celta Viga are paying 100% of those wages either.

Secondly, even though they aren't as good as us, the Everton/Swansea/West Ham/West Brom and dare I say even Stoke players all play with a much better attitude than our players. The body language our players give off on pitch frankly warrants a call to suicide-watch. They look completely uninspired and depressed the moment things like they aren't going their way. It's absolutely pathetic.

Thirdly, we've still heard f-all from 'Stan the Man' and his other cronies.

I'm tired of spending money and time on a bunch of people who clearly don't care. Something has to change for the good of the club...

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ajw10

ajw10

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sy thinking you can challenge :D

football and expectations generally is doing as well as you're budget/squad etc and the other factors involved.

Fact is you're squad isn't good enough to compete

another is you should be higher than 10th

top 16 in europe is reasonable and top 8 would say is the very max expectation for you.

One thing which needs resolving is the

mysteries regarding your budgets/some signings.

You are slightly underachieving.

Ah wait, top 8 in Europe? Sorry I misread.

Still though, we should be challenging. Or we should lower ticket prices. Simple.

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Sy13

Sy13

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First of all, this argument about us not having money is rubbish. If we stopped outrageously overpaying crap players like Squillaci, Djourou, Denilson and Chamakh, there might be more money to spend on transfer fees. I mean jesus, wasn't Park Chu Young on 40k a week? There's no way Celta Viga are paying 100% of those wages either.

Secondly, even though they aren't as good as us, the Everton/Swansea/West Ham/West Brom and dare I say even Stoke players all play with a much better attitude than our players. The body language our players give off on pitch frankly warrants a call to suicide-watch. They look completely uninspired and depressed the moment things like they aren't going their way. It's absolutely pathetic.

Thirdly, we've still heard f-all from 'Stan the Man' and his other cronies.

I'm tired of spending money and time on a bunch of people who clearly don't care. Something has to change for the good of the club...

Well, sacking Wenger and bringing in someone like Moyes or Klopp would be a big help.

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SJ234

SJ234

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Ahhhh statistics. Statistics say that Ramsey is a good passer. Podolski can work hard, but chooses not to. Hence the statistics being favourable to him.

One of the huge issues in Gervinho's game is that he cannot control a football. Or pass. Or run. Or stay on his feet. Or head. Or tackle. Or shoot. Hmmm, what does he do?

Heh that is a poor argument. Ramsey is a good passer though that isn't the issue. The issue is how he is used and him dwelling on the ball which isn't shown by statistics.

If he did it when he chose too to the extent you suggest then he wouldn't do as well statistically. I am no believer that statistics prove something but compared to others he contributes more.

Gervinho can do most of those things just some of the time and when he does it he tends to do it well. It's just he is so inconsistent that is the issue forgetting his lack of composure or decision making.

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Candre168

Candre168

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Well, sacking Wenger and bringing in someone like Moyes or Klopp would be a big help.

I don't think sacking Wenger will help at the moment, and I advocated the sacking of Wenger three years ago on this board and got treated brutally for it. But now things in my view have changed.

Things are wrong from the very top up. The board suck, Stan sucks, Gazidis sucks, they all need to **** off. Until that happens, who is manager isn't as important for the development of the club.

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