Liverpool Thread 2012/13

[SRL88]

Well Iago Aspas is one which looks almost done. I would probably expect another to come in as well.

[IWWROCKS]

Borini, Aspas + another (especially as it'll be a first teamer like Benteke) should be fine to keep us going until Sturridge is back. With no european competition we dont need a deep rotation this year. Not to forget a young player (Morgan, Yesil, Sinclair) could impress in pre-season and fill a role on the bench.

[Guest]

Sturridge out for four months?

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/daniel-sturridge-facing-four-months-on-sidelines-8641506.html.

I know the managers hate the international that comes just after the start of the season but the end of season ones are the ones I hate most. Once the season is over it should be over unless there is a major competition on.

[DeafParrot]

Borini, Aspas + another (especially as it'll be a first teamer like Benteke) should be fine to keep us going until Sturridge is back. With no european competition we dont need a deep rotation this year. Not to forget a young player (Morgan, Yesil, Sinclair) could impress in pre-season and fill a role on the bench.

Hodzic

[CaptainPlanet]

Bellamy hates working for a manager who is professional and preferred working with someone who talks like he's his best mate.

I'm shocked.

This goes for a lot of people in jobs. Rafa's "questioning" sounds fantastic tbh, and doing regimented training, fitness, going over and over the tactics and leaving no freedom to players is certainly effective if you have the right type of players who work best in that environment.

Mancini is very similar. I'm sure Bellamy would have thought he was a miserable git who wouldn't give him "freedom" or let him "have a laugh".

[Rafalution]

Bit of a difference between wanting a manager who takes a bit of an interest in who you are as a person and who instills a sense of camaraderie and trust in a team, and wanting a best mate who will be up for a laugh, but let's not let any reasonable statements in there get in the way of the Hyperbole Express. Choo, choo!

[knapp...]

yeah there has to be a middle ground, he's there to manage a group of young men and to do so in such a one size fits all rigid attitude is never going to get the best out of every player, you have to have a little flexibility. it doesn't mean that he should turn himself into harry redknapp and be one of the lads ffs, just adapt now and then and understand that he is working with humans not robots .

not surprised some decide to jump on bellamy instead of admitting rafa isn't perfect though. classic stuff.

[bell]

Both are no longer at the club. Interesting, but I couldn't give a stuff really.

The Rafa stuff probably explains why we couldn't quite get over the finish line with him though. You need a little bit of flair or something to turn all that effort into something special.

[Select_screen_name:]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/craig-bellamy-autobiography-put-14m-1927510

That Bellamy's a bit of a tit, ain't he.

[CaptainPlanet]

I don't think there does need to be a middle ground. Like I said, Rafa isn't only manager like it. Inside or outside of football. The stuff Bellamy is whining about is pathetic IMO. Regardless of who's in charge.

[Divinity]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/craig-bellamy-autobiography-put-14m-1927510

That Bellamy's a bit of a tit, ain't he.

It's funny, because you mention Suarez' charity work in Africa and everyone calls him a racist/biter etc instead.

Mention Bellamy and people don't bring up the drunk guy who hits others with golf clubs because BRITISH.

I have no issues with Rafa being 100% work. They're paid well enough that they can hire a best friend if they want one. Perhaps the players need a mirror if they want to see why the atmosphere turned toxic towards the end of Rafa's time.

[milnerpoint]

Where has anyone brought Suarez's charity work into the convo when speaking about his faults? Its admirable what he does, but he is still a horrible person on the football pitch. Bellamy has had plenty of **** throughout the years for being a ****, no one has protected him because of his charity work.

You guys are really starting to believe this whole conspiracy thing over Suarez, its highly amusing from the outside.

[foofighter23]

maybe you're just spending too much time worrying about us instead of your own team.

[milnerpoint]

I've spent too much of my life worrying about my own team, i realised a long time ago that its hopeless for us.

[Eugster]

maybe you're just spending too much time worrying about us instead of your own team.

He's obsessed with Liverpool, everyone is!

[The Guy From The Sunny Place]

BOSTON (CBS) — Police and medical personnel were called to the yacht owned by Red Sox owner John Henry, Monday afternoon.

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/03/boston-police-medics-called-to-red-sox-owner-john-henrys-yacht/

[stevie_G_32201]

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2013/06/03/boston-police-medics-called-to-red-sox-owner-john-henrys-yacht/

Do we know why yet?

[The Guy From The Sunny Place]

Nothing yet. Twitter is rife with speculation.

[The Guy From The Sunny Place]

It's a suicide of a young male 20/30yo.

[Emersonlfc]

Has he a son of that age?

[Daaaaave]

espn says it was a crew member

[Daaaaave]

fwiw the "foreignitk" twitter handle who claimed coutinho to liverpool in january before the deal was done is now claiming suarez for 30m + higuain is a done deal.

https://twitter.com/ForeignITK

[Rafalution]

i'd take that.

[Emersonlfc]

Is that 30m euros or 30m sterling.

[Rafalution]

infact i'd be pretty darn delighted with it

[stevie_G_32201]

Is that 30m euros or 30m sterling.

Wouldn't matter really, rather good deal either way for a player who doesn't want to be here anymore.

EDIT: just looked at the rest of his, he also seems to think begovic to liverpool is done for £6m

[ArsenalFan7]

and higuain is happy to go to liverpool? juve or liverpool?

[Emersonlfc]

I know which one I would pick.

[Emersonlfc]

Wouldn't matter really, rather good deal either way for a player who doesn't want to be here anymore.

EDIT: just looked at the rest of his, he also seems to think begovic to liverpool is done for £6m

Where is Reina going?

Can't see him moving knowing there's a great chance he will be walking into a Barcelona team next year.

[Select_screen_name:]

fwiw the "foreignitk" twitter handle who claimed coutinho to liverpool in january before the deal was done is now claiming suarez for 30m + higuain is a done deal.

https://twitter.com/ForeignITK

Seems legit.

[Ridleys]

Do people honestly fall for these 'ITK' accounts still?

[jim82]

Lots of stories floating around about Hnrkh Mkhtryn.

I'd be made up if we signed Papadopolous, Mkhtaryan, and Aspas.

[Daaaaave]

there's some guy on twitter who I didn't even know I added to my feed (I think maybe I recall someone retweeting him tipping our bid for someone (yesil? assaidi?) before he was on most radars) saying the following:

coutinho in for 8m

diame in for 3.5m

decision made on whether we will bid on wilfried bony soon

guillermo ochoa scouted as a possible reyna replacement

no point in talking about a grain of salt since there's no reason to believe him, but it does seem to match other current rumors.

same guy as this one fwiw

[Rafalution]

Lots of stories floating around about Hnrkh Mkhtryn.

I'd be made up if we signed Papadopolous, Mkhtaryan, and Aspas.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2013/jun/03/liverpool-henrik-mkhitaryan-shakhtar-donetsk?CMP=twt_gu

[DeafParrot]

The biggest link to Mkhitaryan is apparently that he changed agents last month to some guy who we've dealt with a fair bit in the past. Bit of a stretch imo. Wish it were true though.

Wouldn't this summer be amazing if all these rumours around about us were true. Higuain, Mkhitaryan, Papadopoulos, Mignolet all starting for us next season. I'd be amazed if even one of them signed, and it'll probably be Mig.

[stevie_G_32201]

The biggest link to Mkhitaryan is apparently that he changed agents last month to some guy who we've dealt with a fair bit in the past. Bit of a stretch imo. Wish it were true though.

Wouldn't this summer be amazing if all these rumours around about us were true. Higuain, Mkhitaryan, Papadopoulos, Mignolet all starting for us next season. I'd be amazed if even one of them signed, and it'll probably be Mig.

Fairly good season he had, but would prefer begovic if it was between the 2.

[Select_screen_name:]

Craig Bellamy on... Charlie Adam The swear word used begins with C.

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1rkkrqo

3 June 2013 23:00

In today's final extract from his new book, Craig Bellamy tells of how he was alarmed at the beginning of his new adventure at Liverpool when he saw Charlie Adam in training for the first time.

I met Charlie a couple of times before pre-season training began, and he seemed a nice lad.

He wasn't the brightest but then footballers rarely are. I consider myself to be among the cleverer footballers around.

Charlie is a true Scot, and he loves his beer. It's all he ever talked about at the start, having had a brutal close season with a series of lads holidays abroad.

Charlie wasn't a shy lad and told the squad all about his escapades, including vomiting into the swimming pool at 2pm one afternoon.

He was a fat ******* too, Charlie, and he could eat for Scotland.

Some of the lads called him 'Rab', after the TV comedy character Rab C Nesbitt.

The first day at training and Charlie had a 'mare. He couldn't control the ball to save his life, couldn't get his breath and kept falling over while trying to run with the ball.

Players are always judging others, never more so than on the first day - first impressions count and though some of the lads found it hilarious, most were not impressed.

"Who's this ****?", one respected player said to me.

"I can't believe we've signed this useless ****", said another.

While one of the club's iconic players said to me, "I'd played against him last season and I knew he was *****, you're gonna need to step it up this season, Craig - cos this ****'s ****."

Charlie didn't have the best of seasons and he was sold on to Stoke. I wish him well.

[niggle]

Ha ha I love bellamys honesty

[Divinity]

You guys are really starting to believe this whole conspiracy thing over Suarez, its highly amusing from the outside.

I wasn't even making it out to be about Suarez ffs, but if you want to go the route, I'm just going to cross-post something I posted elsewhere:

The English press does have a habit of making out foreign players and managers to be villains with the stories they run, with instances being far more damning of overseas-born players. There's ample history of that over the years. It's not a Suarez thing, it's a **** standard of journalism thing. Compare the English reporting of Suarez' 'punch' in the South American WCQ - not even an English competition, no English teams, no English players - "Luis Suarez punch" throws up 700k hits on google, 2290 on a news search.

Now compare it to Jonny Evans. English player, English team, English match.

194k hits on google, SEVEN hits on news, NONE of which are from a major English news outlet. Incident not investigated by the English FA, no ban handed out.

Let's not ******** here, there's a pretty clear double standard on what is newsworthy or not - let alone what's punishable - and it's nothing to do with the act committed, but whether they can vilify the individual to create public interest. ******** on Luis Suarez sells a lot more newspapers than Jonny Evans, and it'd be ridiculous to suggest that doesn't have an impact on a player.

As I said, I don't particularly care whether he stays or goes, and I'm not defending his behaviour, but there is a pretty clear double standard as far as reporting in the media goes and the effect it generates.

[Icelander83]

Jonny Evans isn't English

/pedant

Oh and if we want to get a bit realistic, as far as I know that was the only punching incident Evans has been involved in. The first page of "luis suarez punch" has at least two incidents and article comparing Suarez' punch to something Messi did.

More incidents = more hits, obviously. Also the fact that Suarez has quite a bit of history when it comes to violent acts and other things, it kind of makes sense that his incidents get more coverage.

But it's all about making the foreigner out to be the bad guy, isn't it?

[Select_screen_name:]

That doesn't even matter about hits from the internet.

Peoples general attitudes towards the incident because it was only Evans is stupid. Or the reaction to Suarezs bite because it was Suarez was ridiculous. I mean, where was the outcry from everyone here how 'scum' Evans is? Where was the masses of people calling for a 5 game ban?

The only reasonable conclusion is that most people on here are media sheep. Even after they've been made aware of it on this forum(I posted video, for one), there was no uproar. Probably because the news or media didn't talk about it. Not to mention he's got away with it.

[Cubiscus]

Mkhitaryan is an outstanding player, will excell in a top league. Hope that one is true, albeit Shakhtar don't need to sell.

[milnerpoint]

I wasn't even making it out to be about Suarez ffs, but if you want to go the route, I'm just going to cross-post something I posted elsewhere:

That doesn't even matter about hits from the internet.

Peoples general attitudes towards the incident because it was only Evans is stupid. Or the reaction to Suarezs bite because it was Suarez was ridiculous. I mean, where was the outcry from everyone here how 'scum' Evans is? Where was the masses of people calling for a 5 game ban?

The only reasonable conclusion is that most people on here are media sheep. Even after they've been made aware of it on this forum(I posted video, for one), there was no uproar. Probably because the news or media didn't talk about it. Not to mention he's got away with it.

Thank you for proving the point.

[Select_screen_name:]

The point is you're a bit of a tit. So yeah, proven.

[SRL88]

The point is you're a bit of a tit. So yeah, proven.

Talk about irony.

[Select_screen_name:]

Talk about irony.

You don't need to include yourself in that bracket, mate

[Divinity]

Jonny Evans isn't English

British then. Makes little difference really.

Oh and if we want to get a bit realistic, as far as I know that was the only punching incident Evans has been involved in.

Oh well then, that's ok. No further action needed, no media highlighting necessary.

If you don't honestly think there's a double standard and some gutter journalism occurring, you're kidding yourself. Evans should have been banned, and for a lengthy period. That you're coming in here defending the lack of press about it rather confirms the point I'm making.

[Bracken]

If you don't honestly think there's a double standard and some gutter journalism occurring, you're kidding yourself. Evans should have been banned, and for a lengthy period. That you're coming in here defending the lack of press about it rather confirms the point I'm making.

People confuse actions that play into pre-existing narratives with bias against someone.

Anything Suarez does (punching, biting, diving etc.) will get more coverage because it plays into the pre-existing narratives that exist about Suarez. That's not because he's foreign, it's because he has a history of being a ****. It's a lot easier for journalists to write 'Suarez is scum' stories because they've got a lot more to work with, they know it sells papers, and they know people will easily go with it as it fits their already developed view.

The reason Evans punch didn't get more coverage is because it doesn't fit in with the narratives that exist about Evans. There isn't a long history of ****-ish things from Evans, he's generally been well behaved, and he's not a very high profile player. Therefore it doesn't fit any existing narrative, it doesn't have a definite target market, and people may not easily feel interested in the story because they don't know much/care much about Evans. It has nothing to do with foreign/British, it's about narratives.

The obvious evidence for this is Bale's diving. Other British players will dive and get little coverage, so will other foreign players, but any time Bale dives it'll get a huge amount of coverage because it fits into a narrative that already exists. He's British, but it fits the stories that journalists enjoy writing and know will have a target audience, so it's an easy fit.

Basically, journalists are lazy, they will usually go for the easiest angle on any story and they know what works. But I really don't see this massive campaign against Suarez/foreign players that some other people claim.

The FA is another matter, they should've charged Evans and he should've had at least a 3 game ban, but equally they should've charged Aguero from jumping on Luiz, I don't think not charging Evans is about any bias towards/against British players or United players, it's just the FA are pretty incompetent, which we all know anyway.

[jim82]

People confuse actions that play into pre-existing narratives with bias against someone.

Anything Suarez does (punching, biting, diving etc.) will get more coverage because it plays into the pre-existing narratives that exist about Suarez. That's not because he's foreign, it's because he has a history of being a ****. It's a lot easier for journalists to write 'Suarez is scum' stories because they've got a lot more to work with, they know it sells papers, and they know people will easily go with it as it fits their already developed view.

The reason Evans punch didn't get more coverage is because it doesn't fit in with the narratives that exist about Evans. There isn't a long history of ****-ish things from Evans, he's generally been well behaved, and he's not a very high profile player. Therefore it doesn't fit any existing narrative, it doesn't have a definite target market, and people may not easily feel interested in the story because they don't know much/care much about Evans. It has nothing to do with foreign/British, it's about narratives.

The obvious evidence for this is Bale's diving. Other British players will dive and get little coverage, so will other foreign players, but any time Bale dives it'll get a huge amount of coverage because it fits into a narrative that already exists. He's British, but it fits the stories that journalists enjoy writing and know will have a target audience, so it's an easy fit.

Basically, journalists are lazy, they will usually go for the easiest angle on any story and they know what works. But I really don't see this massive campaign against Suarez/foreign players that some other people claim.

The FA is another matter, they should've charged Evans and he should've had at least a 3 game ban, but equally they should've charged Aguero from jumping on Luiz, I don't think not charging Evans is about any bias towards/against British players or United players, it's just the FA are pretty incompetent, which we all know anyway.

Interesting stuff. Agree with some of it.

Sometimes it's more to do with the history of the narrative, rather than the history of what the player has actually done.

Evans has done dirty stuff before, and because there has been no FA ban, little to no coverage of the punch in the mainstream, there is no narrative again.

Journalists are sometimes lazy, but are often dictated by editorial guidelines and the need to actually write something which will get readers/viewers. I bet a lot wish they could write about more interesting stuff rather than the more sensationalist type things, but the way things are editors want articles which create comments/shares/controversy etc. It's what pays their wage so they do what's necessary.

[Divinity]

The problem with that point is that a narrative requires initiation to become one. Even your point about diving is largely incorrect - whilst I agree Bale has a reputation, and it draws attention (see his booking in last[?] game of the season, the 'diving foreigners' is hyperbole that's existed since they started coming into the premier league. It's regarded as a foreign scourge.

This is the most annoying thing, and something I'm baffled people can't get into their heads: Cheating is not bound by nationality, ethnicity, religion, or any other demographic. It's human nature, full stop. Each incident should be judged on the severity of that incident, and without hypocrisy - which is an endemic trait unfortunately. And people flock to it - witness people loving managers who 'defend their players', even when the hyperbole a manager comes out with goes far beyond reality.

Perhaps I just have an issue with societies that lecture others on standards of behaviour and moral judgements without taking into account that the world doesn't develop at an equal pace. I'm honestly of the opinion a large chunk of the population need something - anything - to be offended or indignant about, even if they need to be told what it is.