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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

In the meantime you've already been in the country long enough to set off a few bombs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or if they catch you before you do, they have a bona fide reason to kick you out or bang you up. icon14.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

I don't understand why suspected Al Qaeda -- no matter how vague the suspicion is -- should be allowed entry.

On my application for American residency, I was asked if I was ever a member of the communist or nazi party or an organization that attempted to overthrow a government -- with the implication that membership in those may disqualify me from entry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Which makes it an utterly stupid exercise. You'd have to be mental to say "yes." </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not really. The point of the questionnaire is for you to answer and sign. It's the same with security clearance questions. You sign saying that under the penalty of law you affirm these to be true. If it is later discovered that you lied, the state has the authority to prosecute or deport you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In the meantime you've already been in the country long enough to set off a few bombs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well yea of course. But they could deport the Hook preacher guy using this approach.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

Jihadis banned from US or other European nations now to be denied entry to UK </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weren't a lot of them from the UK? Won't that cause some problems?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

In the meantime you've already been in the country long enough to set off a few bombs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or if they catch you before you do, they have a bona fide reason to kick you out or bang you up. icon14.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have a lot more confidence in the US government's competence than I do.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

Jihadis banned from US or other European nations now to be denied entry to UK </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weren't a lot of them from the UK? Won't that cause some problems? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, you have to make a start somewhere.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vidoy:

Kick all Islamic people born here or not out of the country. If there not here they cant hurt us.

Its an extreme meassure but surely it will make the country safer.

We know there are people preaching in Mosques in the UK telling them to attack us.

KICK THEM OUT FFS! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're a bigoted racist. [/boroPhil] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im sorry but i dont trust people from that area. Im sure the majority of people from that area are decent people, HOWEVER why should mine and other peoples lives be in danger because of these people who want to attack us?

We know they want to attack but yet there still here! You cant agree with that surely?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Synthahols_for_Girls:

the former USSR is littered with radioactive **** that would be ideal for a dirty bomb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My hometown is not **** icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is.

Oh, you're not talking about DC?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Synthahols_for_Girls:

the former USSR is littered with radioactive **** that would be ideal for a dirty bomb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My hometown is not **** icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is.

Oh, you're not talking about DC? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I mean Kiev icon_smile.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Synthahols_for_Girls:

the former USSR is littered with radioactive **** that would be ideal for a dirty bomb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My hometown is not **** icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is.

Oh, you're not talking about DC? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I mean Kiev icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmmmm......Chicken Kiev.....

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Synthahols_for_Girls:

Packing the bomb with nails would have ment that for instance no one got off the top deck of the bus, anyone with burns would have also eaten several sharp metal objects.

and if they can make explosives, shey can make sarin/ vx , bio's are relativly easy to obtain and culture, and the former USSR is littered with radioactive **** that would be ideal for a dirty bomb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, because the shrapnel would have stopped in the people killed by the blast, and the seats etc. You're right in that they would have got more, but only a few and for the extra logistical problems I expect they decided it wasn't worth it.

The explosives used appear to be home made. I can easily make a bomb with stuff from the chemist, but I wouldn't even think of trying to make nerve gas. Why, when I can just buy a few cans of RAID?

Shouldn't you be off fighting the buggers, anyway?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vidoy:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by vidoy:

Kick all Islamic people born here or not out of the country. If there not here they cant hurt us.

Its an extreme meassure but surely it will make the country safer.

We know there are people preaching in Mosques in the UK telling them to attack us.

KICK THEM OUT FFS! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're a bigoted racist. [/boroPhil] </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im sorry but i dont trust people from that area. Im sure the majority of people from that area are decent people, HOWEVER why should mine and other peoples lives be in danger because of these people who want to attack us?

We know they want to attack but yet there still here! You cant agree with that surely? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd rather just feed them ham sammies, tbh.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Synthahols_for_Girls:

the former USSR is littered with radioactive **** that would be ideal for a dirty bomb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My hometown is not **** icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is.

Oh, you're not talking about DC? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I mean Kiev icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmmmm......Chicken Kiev..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmmm....... Chicks in Kiev....

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jason the Yank:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Synthahols_for_Girls:

the former USSR is littered with radioactive **** that would be ideal for a dirty bomb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My hometown is not **** icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes it is.

Oh, you're not talking about DC? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I mean Kiev icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmmmm......Chicken Kiev..... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmmmm....... Chicks in Kiev.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never tasted that. icon13.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Synthahols_for_Girls:

Packing the bomb with nails would have ment that for instance no one got off the top deck of the bus, anyone with burns would have also eaten several sharp metal objects.

and if they can make explosives, shey can make sarin/ vx , bio's are relativly easy to obtain and culture, and the former USSR is littered with radioactive **** that would be ideal for a dirty bomb </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, because the shrapnel would have stopped in the people killed by the blast, and the seats etc. You're right in that they would have got more, but only a few and for the extra logistical problems I expect they decided it wasn't worth it.

The explosives used appear to be home made. I can easily make a bomb with stuff from the chemist, but I wouldn't even think of trying to make nerve gas. Why, when I can just buy a few cans of RAID?

Shouldn't you be off fighting the buggers, anyway? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't I was kaking myself last thurs being as I was due to go on my stag weekend, and there was a remote chance my unit would be called up to assist.

But its not difficult or complicated to suround a bomb with a few jars of nails.

and again, if you can make the explosive, you can easily make the gas and that would have killed most of the people on the train

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Synthahols_for_Girls:

Don't I was kaking myself last thurs being as I was due to go on my stag weekend, and there was a remote chance my unit would be called up to assist.

Stag on, sucker. icon_biggrin.gif

But its not difficult or complicated to suround a bomb with a few jars of nails.

But it can appear unnaturally heavier, and any metal detector and you're fuct. Their main worry was one or more getting caught before the act.

and again, if you can make the explosive, you can easily make the gas and that would have killed most of the people on the train

As I said before, I'd make explosives at home, but I wouldn't **** about with gas, thankyou. I don't have the kit or the know-how.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

I don't think they want to go into the chemical weapons territory tbh. There's degrees of madness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No no no. If they knew what they were doing with it, they'd do it straight away. There are no degrees of madness when you deal with people who will with foreknowledge kill their own civilians just to kill some enemy civilians and to make a point. They already crossed the madness line, you see?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

[As I said before, I'd make explosives at home, but I wouldn't **** about with gas, thankyou. I don't have the kit or the know-how.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Whats the diferance.

Both will kill you if you fek up, and both cna be made from common easily obtainable ingredients

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

I don't think they want to go into the chemical weapons territory tbh. There's degrees of madness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No no no. If they knew what they were doing with it, they'd do it straight away. There are no degrees of madness when you deal with people who will with foreknowledge kill their own civilians just to kill some enemy civilians and to make a point. They already crossed the madness line, you see? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think on some level they care about various public opinions for their cause, and that wouldn't look good.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

I don't think they want to go into the chemical weapons territory tbh. There's degrees of madness. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No no no. If they knew what they were doing with it, they'd do it straight away. There are no degrees of madness when you deal with people who will with foreknowledge kill their own civilians just to kill some enemy civilians and to make a point. They already crossed the madness line, you see? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think on some level they care about various public opinions for their cause, and that wouldn't look good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't they find a basic al quaida chemical lab in iraq a few months back

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Synthahols_for_Girls:

Whats the diferance.

Both will kill you if you fek up, and both cna be made from common easily obtainable ingredients </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I speak for most of the human race when I say I'd rather **** about with dynamite than nerve gas, tbh.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

I think on some level they care about various public opinions for their cause, and that wouldn't look good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That didn't occur to them 4 years and 2 months back?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

I think on some level they care about various public opinions for their cause, and that wouldn't look good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That didn't occur to them 4 years and 2 months back? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

3 years and 9 months back you mean?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

3 years and 9 months back you mean? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I refer the honourable gentleman to the reply I gave earlier:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TheCranker:

Aye which makes the point questionable. Especially with "more than a couple" being a bit vague. I was hoping for a Bert style percentage tbh. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My capacity for maths is exhausted. icon_frown.gif

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Synthahols_for_Girls:

Whats the diferance.

Both will kill you if you fek up, and both cna be made from common easily obtainable ingredients </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think I speak for most of the human race when I say I'd rather **** about with dynamite than nerve gas, tbh. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn nerve of the man icon_mad.gif

* But he's right, you know. *

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

My personal theory is that 9/11 was kind of like Al Qaeda's Hiroshima & Nagasaki, sending a message of their strength, but subsequent attacks need not send as strong and outlandish of a message. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aye. They just need to keep things ticking over until they can manage a proper Hiroshima or Nagasaki...

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wicom:

if they are aiming for something high profile shouldn't they be keeping as low a profile as possible in the buildup to it? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why we're feeling more relieved than anything.

But how long can we keep closing stations and evacuating people for every dodgy bag or bin?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

But how long can we keep closing stations and evacuating people for every dodgy bag or bin? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't really.

But I don't think the solution is to root Muslims out of Britain or force them to live in a certain way.

Better long term is to go and do an Iraq in other countries, really. Long term, Iraq's not going to be a safe haven for Islamic terrorists. Why? Because when they actually do pull together a working democracy and a proper infrastructure, they'll be more prosperous and have a say in their own government, and at that point extremists are stuck with two problems - prosperous people don't really go in for extremism, and when opinions go to the ballot box then suddenly you have to prove that you "speak for Muslims".

Let's face it, there's a simple reason why the likes of Al'Quaeda exist. Jealousy. They see that countries with more freedom have more money, better houses, better stuff in the shops. They see that Muslims stuck in dictatorial states not surprisingly fancy going and getting a bit Westernised - because hey, it means a cool mobile phone and stuff. And because they haven't got anything to offer as a genuine alternative, they lash out.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

Do you dig free trade too, man? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah. Peace, love, and capitalism (except for love, which should be free!). icon_smile.gif

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Ultimately, I think 9/11 will have acted as the catalyst to destroy the extremists. It forced the US into action, and that action ultimately led to the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, which will lead to the democritisation of those countries, which will lead to their increased prosperity, and will act as proof that the extremist's views hold no value.

It's happening slower than it should. What the US and other western countries should have done is poured money into Afghanistan following the toppling of the Taliban. Genuinely made it a beacon of "this is how good things can be". Unfortunately they didn't take that extra step.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by silver_blue:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

But how long can we keep closing stations and evacuating people for every dodgy bag or bin? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Can't really.

But I don't think the solution is to root Muslims out of Britain or force them to live in a certain way.

Better long term is to go and do an Iraq in other countries, really. Long term, Iraq's not going to be a safe haven for Islamic terrorists. Why? Because when they actually do pull together a working democracy and a proper infrastructure, they'll be more prosperous and have a say in their own government, and at that point extremists are stuck with two problems - prosperous people don't really go in for extremism, and when opinions go to the ballot box then suddenly you have to prove that you "speak for Muslims".

Let's face it, there's a simple reason why the likes of Al'Quaeda exist. Jealousy. They see that countries with more freedom have more money, better houses, better stuff in the shops. They see that Muslims stuck in dictatorial states not surprisingly fancy going and getting a bit Westernised - because hey, it means a cool mobile phone and stuff. And because they haven't got anything to offer as a genuine alternative, they lash out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

silver_blue in "I'm a neocon" shocker icon_eek.gificon14.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by silver_blue:

It's happening slower than it should. What the US and other western countries should have done is poured money into Afghanistan following the toppling of the Taliban. Genuinely made it a beacon of "this is how good things can be". Unfortunately they didn't take that extra step. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

More money would have made a difference, but I doubt it would have been cost-effective. There are two whole generations of fanatical insurgents there - it'll take some time but it can be done. Have we the patience?

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

More money would have made a difference, but I doubt it would have been cost-effective. There are two whole generations of fanatical insurgents there - it'll take some time but it can be done. Have we the patience? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope we've got the patience.

And long term, yeah, I think it would be cost effective. In terms of increased trade, in terms of increased security. You make the general population richer, happier and freer, and life becomes a damn sight harder for those insurgents.

The ultimate test in Iraq I think, is this; what will be our reaction when they democratically elect a government which doesn't like us? Not a government that plans to reduce or remove democracy - we are entitled to act to protect that - but a government that is happy to be democratically elected, but just opposes us in policy terms. You have to let them do that, I wonder if we will.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Moshi Moshe Mohammed:

silver_blue in "I'm a neocon" shocker icon_eek.gificon14.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

According to my girlfriend, I class as a "liberal Republican" icon_smile.gif

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by silver_blue:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bert Preast:

More money would have made a difference, but I doubt it would have been cost-effective. There are two whole generations of fanatical insurgents there - it'll take some time but it can be done. Have we the patience? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I hope we've got the patience.

And long term, yeah, I think it would be cost effective. In terms of increased trade, in terms of increased security. You make the general population richer, happier and freer, and life becomes a damn sight harder for those insurgents.

The ultimate test in Iraq I think, is this; what will be our reaction when they democratically elect a government which doesn't like us? Not a government that plans to reduce or remove democracy - we are entitled to act to protect that - but a government that is happy to be democratically elected, but just opposes us in policy terms. You have to let them do that, I wonder if we will. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

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find it odd that people think america went into iraq to "spread freedom and deomcracy" when they have a history of removing elected governments, directly or indirectly, when it suits their business interests to do so (Iran, Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua). waiting for someone to suggest that no two countries with a mcdonalds will er fight a war against each other.

also worth pointing out (to get back to the thread topic?) that the group who claimed responsibility for the london bombings made no mention of western values, wealth, freedom, democracy, or any of the other things George W never tires of telling us the terrorists hate. they said it was punishment for the massacres carried out in iraq and afghanistan (in the name of capitalism).

and they lived in leeds, and probably had pretty swish mobile phones thank you very much.

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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MattyT:

find it odd that people think america went into iraq to "spread freedom and deomcracy" when they have a history of removing elected governments, directly or indirectly, when it suits their business interests to do so (Iran, Guatemala, Chile, Nicaragua). waiting for someone to suggest that no two countries with a mcdonalds will er fight a war against each other.

also worth pointing out (to get back to the thread topic?) that the group who claimed responsibility for the london bombings made no mention of western values, wealth, freedom, democracy, or any of the other things George W never tires of telling us the terrorists hate. they said it was punishment for the massacres carried out in iraq and afghanistan (in the name of capitalism).

and they lived in leeds, and probably had pretty swish mobile phones thank you very much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably wore hoodies too.

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