Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[WengerApprentice]

Could be tiredness, motivation & confidence, tactical issues - can you give some more information so we can help you please?

I use 4231 Denmark and follow the 12 Steps guide to keep things simple. Control/Balance with TIs: Short pass + play out of defence.

--------------------------GK--------------------------

FB-S----------CD-D----------CD-D----------WB-A

---------------BWM-S-------DLP-D-----------------

W-A-------------------Treq--------------------IF-A

-------------------------F9---------------------------

I play Arsenal and usually see "Weak passes" occur along my left flank. If I have to point out someone, I would say I saw it most often from Santi Cazorla. However, when I try to warn him about his passes, he disagree by saying his passes are more ambitious (which is not true).

[llama3]

I feel that the left side could be a touch disjointed - which is why passes do not find their targets. The IF(A) could be streaking infield, and too far from the WB(A) - with the DLP(D) too far away to be an obvious out-ball. I would question Cazorla as an IF(A) - he is not a major goalscoring threat, and not quick enough. He is more suited to the build up play instead. How does this sound? What type of problems are you seeing?

Perhaps you might open a thread and we can discuss it there in further detail?

[Valencia7]

Hi,

i've never really used instruction "Look for overlap" because i've never really know what it means... So can someone please explain to me what does it mean and against which style of playing/tactic is it most effective?

cheers

[RTHerringbone]

Hi,

i've never really used instruction "Look for overlap" because i've never really know what it means... So can someone please explain to me what does it mean and against which style of playing/tactic is it most effective?

cheers

It makes your full backs / wingbacks adopt a more attacking mentality. They will run with the ball more, and cross more.

It will make your wide midfielders less attacking. They will run with the ball less and instead look to hold the ball whilst the FBs / WBs overlap.

In general terms, it makes sense to use this against teams that don't have much width, or against formations that don't have much defensive cover out wide.

[redmark]

redmark, you can train all these 3 tactics to be fully fluid, but at least some instructions influence multiple "bars", so you can't just change some instructions without losing familiarity. I think formations and fluidity levels can be fully fluid if you change to them and have them trained, with other things it's more of a matter of luck - e.g. in one of my tactics I can lower the tempo and still have every bar at fluid. Only formation, mentality, fluidity, 4 top passing options, play wider/narrower, everything in defending except offside trap and 4 tempo instructions influence tactical familiarity, in my experience.

That's not quite what I meant.

Current Scenario:

Tactic 1: 433 - Standard/Very Fluid: Only 'set' TI (e.g.) is Play Out of Defence.

Let's assume my Tactics 2 & 3 are different shapes, but the same mentality, fluidity and same single set TI.

Now, if I select 'short passing', 'higher tempo' and 'hassle opponents' during a game, the familiarity with 'passing style', 'tempo' and 'closing down' components of my tactic (and the overall familiarity) all drop.

So, the question is in the following scenario:

Tactic 1: 433 - Standard/Very Fluid: Only 'set' TI (e.g.) is Play Out of Defence.

Tactic 2: 41212 - Control/Very Fluid: Lots of 'attacking' TI's set - hassle opponents, quicker tempo, direct passing, get stuck in, etc.

Tactic 3: 3412 - Counter/Very Fluid: Lots of 'patient' TI's set - stand off, lower tempo, short passing, retain possession, stay on feet, etc.

Now, let's say that during (or at the start of) a game, I want to add a couple of 'attacking' TI's to my Tactic1 433 - let's say, hassle opponents and higher tempo. Neither of these is 'trained' in my Tactic1 433, but both are trained in my Tactic2 41212.

What happens to tactical familiarity with Tactic1 433, with TI's selected which are not 'normally' associated with that tactic, but are 'worked on' with another (assume 100% familiar) tactic - Tactic2 41212?

- Fully familiar with TI's, regardless of which tactic they are learned with, or which tactic they are used with in any given game?

- Only familiar with a given TI in the tactic it is associated (learned) with?

- Some compromise familiarity, i.e. "I know this tempo, but not quite used to it in this particularly shape/setup"?

If that makes sense...

(Essentially if this 'works' - i.e. the first result (fully familiar), or even the third (somewhat familiar), then I can have a very 'bare' base tactic with my primary shape; the other two tactics give familiarity with a couple of shapes I might use occasionally, but more to the point can each be given a 'full' set of TI's to get used to and be able to use, pick and mix style, with my primary, base tactic. By the same token, if I do want to use Tactic 2 or 3, without every 'trained' TI, I have 'familiarity' with the individual TI's selected/not-selected, from one tactic or another. Or do I?...).

[Äktsjon Männ]

What happens to tactical familiarity with Tactic1 433, with TI's selected which are not 'normally' associated with that tactic, but are 'worked on' with another (assume 100% familiar) tactic - Tactic2 41212?

- Fully familiar with TI's, regardless of which tactic they are learned with, or which tactic they are used with in any given game?

- Only familiar with a given TI in the tactic it is associated (learned) with?

- Some compromise familiarity, i.e. "I know this tempo, but not quite used to it in this particularly shape/setup"?

If that makes sense...

The first option is what happens. Trade off comes from the time it takes to learn a set of very diverse tactics. Depending on other training settings it can take a whole season to learn three very different tactics so you basically still have to suffer from lack of familiarity, especially during early stages. That's the decision you have to make - do you want your team to know your main style very well at the cost of flexibility or you'll have more flexibility at the cost of being fluid at something more specific.

[redmark]

The first option is what happens. Trade off comes from the time it takes to learn a set of very diverse tactics. Depending on other training settings it can take a whole season to learn three very different tactics so you basically still have to suffer from lack of familiarity, especially during early stages. That's the decision you have to make - do you want your team to know your main style very well at the cost of flexibility or you'll have more flexibility at the cost of being fluid at something more specific.

Thanks - that's good news - both in terms of what I want to do, and that the 'logic' of the game seems right (it would be painful if players effectively said "I only know how to play quick tempo in a diamond, not a 433").

I hadn't thought about the additional time, but that of course makes sense as the trade off. It also will make me reconsider whether I really need a 3412, for the 30 minutes I might use it during the season...

Follow up question: is it easier/quicker to learn tactics of a similar shape, for example three tactics that each have four at the back? So would a 433/41212/4231 be slightly quicker to learn to full familiarity than 433/41212/352?

[zenzen]

I have 3 tactics (with different mentalities and the same formation) I am fully familiar with, all set to use different instructions, e.g. one is set to play wider, one to play narrower, one uses no width-changing instruction; one uses standing off, one uses hassling, one uses no closing down instruction; one uses the highest tempo, one uses the lowest tempo, one uses no tempo instruction. I can change the tempo of my tactics using by default no tempo instruction to the lowest tempo (trained in my other tactics) without losing familiarity, but cannot set it to the highest tempo (trained in my other tactics) without losing familiarity. I cannot change the width of any of them without losing familiarity. I have two fluidity levels trained and can use any of them without losing familiarity on any of my tactics, while the loss of familiarity gets greater the farther the fluidity level is from one of the trained ones.

[Äktsjon Männ]

Thanks - that's good news - both in terms of what I want to do, and that the 'logic' of the game seems right (it would be painful if players effectively said "I only know how to play quick tempo in a diamond, not a 433").

I hadn't thought about the additional time, but that of course makes sense as the trade off. It also will make me reconsider whether I really need a 3412, for the 30 minutes I might use it during the season...

Follow up question: is it easier/quicker to learn tactics of a similar shape, for example three tactics that each have four at the back? So would a 433/41212/4231 be slightly quicker to learn to full familiarity than 433/41212/352?

More similar shapes are easier to train, yes. Initial familiarity with a secondary formation will depend on how close it is to your main one. Also it seems to me (and I have no proof of this, just a hunch) that the more unorthodox the shape is the longer it takes to learn. Or at least it starts with a lower familiarity rating. If you pick a 442 then pretty much any team will have some familiarity with it but choose an asymmetric 32131 for example and you'll have to start from zero.

[redmark]

More similar shapes are easier to train, yes. Initial familiarity with a secondary formation will depend on how close it is to your main one. Also it seems to me (and I have no proof of this, just a hunch) that the more unorthodox the shape is the longer it takes to learn. Or at least it starts with a lower familiarity rating. If you pick a 442 then pretty much any team will have some familiarity with it but choose an asymmetric 32131 for example and you'll have to start from zero.

Does taking the AssMgr's three tactical suggestions (especially if you're going to use basically the same shapes anyway) at the first Staff meeting help on familiarity, I wonder?

[burjennio]

opposition wingers find it far too easy to run inside fullbacks in this game. It is testing my patience to the MAXIMUM when they ignore my instructions and the player remains unmarked the whole game, despite using O.Is and Player Instructions and setting the player to FBd. Anyone else having this problem?

[mikcheck]

Does it make sense to play trought the middle in a tactic with 4 central midfielders? And wider or narrower?

[Dr. Hook]

Does it make sense to play trought the middle in a tactic with 4 central midfielders? And wider or narrower?

It does. I generally play through the middle with a narrow diamond formation unless I am facing a side that has a packed midfield itself. The wider/ narrower for me is entirely contextual based on who/what I am facing and where I need to find space. There are times when both are appropriate, as well as neither .

[WengerApprentice]

I have couple of stupid questions, but I think it would be interest to know/test.

1/ I have a player with low Anticipation, for say Ramsey (Anticipation = 12). Now, I read around that player need this attribute to foresee his teammates' "run off-the-ball" so that he can pull a through pass and if the player's anticipation is low, it will be more likely to result in a poor pass. So my question is, if I cannot train his anticipation, could I increase "the result high anticipation brings" by keeping Ramsey playing alongside with, for example, Giroud for a long time? Using their cohesion as anticipation?

2/ How the match engine count CCC & Half chance? I found that the first requirement is that the player must give a shot. There're some cases when my ST facing the GK, but he hesitate and let the defender tackle. It was a clear chance to me, but not to the ME.

[dan_lcfc]

Does asking a player to tutor the same tutee (sub stupid question - is that a word haha) twice have any negative affects - or is the second time less effective?

[Derp-An]

Is there any specific tactic you can adapt to play against a certain type of style ? Like what would you do to play against a team with direct passing ? or short passing ? something like that ?

[TacticalMaestro]

How do you enforce more cutbacks in this game?

[mikcheck]

It does. I generally play through the middle with a narrow diamond formation unless I am facing a side that has a packed midfield itself. The wider/ narrower for me is entirely contextual based on who/what I am facing and where I need to find space. There are times when both are appropriate, as well as neither .

Thank you.

But playing trough the middle also change the player wide play from move into channels to normal, right?

[Guest El Payaso]

Is there a possibility to make my own goalkicks less dangerous for my own team? I've set Smithies to distribute to defenders and pass short yet he always ignores those instructions and clearly can't kick the ball at all and rarely reaches even the half-way line and yet so often the defenders don't react to the situation at all and suddenly there is a striker through on goal.

[Chris Anthemum]

I've got a basic question about how duties affect a player's behaviour which I think is best illustrated with an example. So for instance let's say I have a central midfielder, just a regular CM and I give him an attack duty, how does that affect his behaviour exactly both in possession and out? I assume when we have the ball it means he will make more forward runs, run with the ball more etc. but will he still resume his basic position and try to help defensively when we don't have it? Just looking for a general idea really, thanks. Apologies if this is explained already somewhere

[Dr. Hook]

Thank you.

But playing trough the middle also change the player wide play from move into channels to normal, right?

It could do, yes. I don't have it up and running to see at the minute, but it sounds right. To be honest, I haven't played with wingers in some time. Also, ff you use that instruction it increases tempo and through balls. If you don't want the extra stuff, you can set passing focus through the middle rather than the shout.

[Dr. Hook]

Is there a possibility to make my own goalkicks less dangerous for my own team? I've set Smithies to distribute to defenders and pass short yet he always ignores those instructions and clearly can't kick the ball at all and rarely reaches even the half-way line and yet so often the defenders don't react to the situation at all and suddenly there is a striker through on goal.

Check his personal through ball instructions. It should be set to rarely to see him stopping that. It won't fix it entirely, which has been a long running issue for me with FM, but that should help.

[Dr. Hook]

I've got a basic question about how duties affect a player's behaviour which I think is best illustrated with an example. So for instance let's say I have a central midfielder, just a regular CM and I give him an attack duty, how does that affect his behaviour exactly both in possession and out? I assume when we have the ball it means he will make more forward runs, run with the ball more etc. but will he still resume his basic position and try to help defensively when we don't have it? Just looking for a general idea really, thanks. Apologies if this is explained already somewhere

If you haven't, look at THOG's thread, and Llama's as well stickied at the top. Basically the attack duty as I have always understood it will do as you say and increase forward runs, but role affects mentality too, so look for him to play a bit higher up on the pitch as a general rule. He'll still track back and defend, but it won't be as effective, obviously, because he'll have further to go. As you get further into your half, though, even with an attack duty, he'll keep his spot in the shape on defense. Where you will probably notice a difference is in the transition phase of play.

[Dr. Hook]

Does asking a player to tutor the same tutee (sub stupid question - is that a word haha) twice have any negative affects - or is the second time less effective?

It works the same every time.

[Dr. Hook]

I have couple of stupid questions, but I think it would be interest to know/test.

1/ I have a player with low Anticipation, for say Ramsey (Anticipation = 12). Now, I read around that player need this attribute to foresee his teammates' "run off-the-ball" so that he can pull a through pass and if the player's anticipation is low, it will be more likely to result in a poor pass. So my question is, if I cannot train his anticipation, could I increase "the result high anticipation brings" by keeping Ramsey playing alongside with, for example, Giroud for a long time? Using their cohesion as anticipation?

2/ How the match engine count CCC & Half chance? I found that the first requirement is that the player must give a shot. There're some cases when my ST facing the GK, but he hesitate and let the defender tackle. It was a clear chance to me, but not to the ME.

1) No, the attributes don't stack in that way. Ramsey will still make plays using his low attribute.

2) Yes, a shot is required, but the way it decides is a bit goofy. I don't know that we've ever had a real definition from SI, but based on my observations with it they are counted when within the area and within a sort of cone that radiates out from the goal. It also seems to depend on when/where defenders are in relation to the shooter. For me, I ignore the stat pretty much. It can be a nice indicator as to whether you are getting penetration into the box (har har, let's get it out of the way ) but it isn't a reliable guide to how well your tactic is working. I see great chances that are not counted and vice versa.

[Dr. Hook]

Is there any specific tactic you can adapt to play against a certain type of style ? Like what would you do to play against a team with direct passing ? or short passing ? something like that ?

That is a really broad question that there is no easy answer to. The only way to counter specific styles depends on shape, roles, pitch conditions, fatigue, and on and on. If you had some questions, start a thread and give us some scenarios with details as that will be the only way to answer this properly.

[genesimmons]

Quick question: Are there any obvious mistakes with this type of setup?

Fluid, Counter

TI: Shorter Passing, Work Ball Into Box, Play Out of Defence, Push Higher Up, Lower Tempo

GK (GK - def)

DR (Full Back - sup), DC (CD - def), DC (CD - def), DL (Full Back - sup)

DMC (DM - def)

MR (Winger - att), MC (Deep Lying Playmaker - sup), MC (Advanced Playmaker - att)

AML (Winger - att)

ST (Deep Lying Forward -sup)

Playing an "ironman" game at the moment, and I'm in the middle of the season, so wouldn't like to experiment too much.

[NLH]

I'm not sure if this is a bug or something else but I've been training Barbosa and Correa to improve their weaker foots at the start of the season, the coaches didn't think they would be successful but i told them to try it anyway. I had a message come up around the end of December/beginning of January that Barbosa was more comfortable using his weaker foot(it was something along the lines of this), the PPM attempts to develop weaker foot but nothing come of it, then ~February the same message came up for Correa and he also had the PPM but his weaker foot hasn't improved either.

[mikcheck]

It could do, yes. I don't have it up and running to see at the minute, but it sounds right. To be honest, I haven't played with wingers in some time. Also, ff you use that instruction it increases tempo and through balls. If you don't want the extra stuff, you can set passing focus through the middle rather than the shout.

Thanks Dr. Hook

[WengerApprentice]

1) No, the attributes don't stack in that way. Ramsey will still make plays using his low attribute.

2) Yes, a shot is required, but the way it decides is a bit goofy. I don't know that we've ever had a real definition from SI, but based on my observations with it they are counted when within the area and within a sort of cone that radiates out from the goal. It also seems to depend on when/where defenders are in relation to the shooter. For me, I ignore the stat pretty much. It can be a nice indicator as to whether you are getting penetration into the box (har har, let's get it out of the way ) but it isn't a reliable guide to how well your tactic is working. I see great chances that are not counted and vice versa.

1/ So you're saying cohension, players have each others on Favourite list are just useless TT_____TT

2/ I made some observation myself. It seems that 1 CCC = "1 shot + when no defender is putting presure on + it's a one-on-one or facing empty goal situation.

3/ Similar to 2, do you know how Mistake are counted? Mispass, losing headers, etc?

I personally would love to look at statistic since I've witness so many players with low attribute but play very well and consistently well. I think by looking at the stats, I would find a quality, cheap and unknown player and turn him into a world class player :->

[michalgottwald]

Adaptabity for coaches/physios/staff - Does it refer to how easy they settle(how long it takes) or how well they settle at all?

[Dr. Hook]

Adaptabity for coaches/physios/staff - Does it refer to how easy they settle(how long it takes) or how well they settle at all?

How well they settle into a foreign country is what that governs.

[Dr. Hook]

1/ So you're saying cohension, players have each others on Favourite list are just useless TT_____TT

Useless for what you are thinking of it as. However, overall team cohesion *will* improve play. As far as favorite personnel, that is for the man management side of the game, really.

[michalgottwald]

How well they settle into a foreign country is what that governs.

Thank you. So will a coach in a foreign country with an adaptability rating of 10 only perform to 50% of his star rating? Or is there a different known formula?

[up_the_owls]

Is there any theards on how to determine T.I from team comparison page....for teams i dont know much about or have not played as before.

[Dr. Hook]

Thank you. So will a coach in a foreign country with an adaptability rating of 10 only perform to 50% of his star rating? Or is there a different known formula?

I really don't know what gets affected and how if they don't settle in well. I feel very confident in saying, though, that it isn't a straight algorithm like your example. With players it is a lot easier to see the effects, of course, but I can say that I have never had problems with coaches settling in a foreign country (though I never peeked at their hidden ratings). Perhaps other users have stories they can share with us in this regard.

[NLH]

Is it possible to raise a Goalkeepers Technique attribute?

[Bagley]

Hi, I would like to know your proposal about Everton tactics. I don't know the use.

[RTHerringbone]

Hi, I would like to know your proposal about Everton tactics. I don't know the use.

Here's a thread all about it:

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php/385834-Recreating-the-Martinez-Everton-style

[Hootieleece]

I'd like to understand How to fix "We are being overrun in the midfield" yet I still score goals and otherwise play well(reasonably), but it comes up every game. I've tried moving the defensive line up change player roles etc.

I even try different formations.....4-3-3, 5-4-1, 4-4-2 and still know luck. I generally play against 4-4-2 and 5-4-1 teams in Sky Bet2 League.

[waitsfornone]

That just means that the opposition has more players in midfield than you. If you are scoring well and performing to your satisfaction, it can be ignored.

[Flohrinho]

Anyone got a good tip how to deal with defensive teams if you don't have a very good team? Last season I managed 10th place with my 17th place predicted St. Pauli side with playing defensive football in the second half of the season but now I have almost exclusively played teams that play very defensive against me and my teams doesn't seem to have the quality to beat them in terms of individual class.

Another problem is that if I go for an attacking approach I seem to get murdered on the counter and control isn't fairing much better. I play a bog standard 4-4-2 btw and a 4-4-2 with DMs when I with my very defensive tactic.

So if anyone has a good tip on what to do against defensive teams when you are usually always the underdog, that would be appreciated.

[axehan1]

If I have TI-short passing is it then counter intuitive to have PI-pass it shorter?I'm seeing a lot of what I would call normal passes not actually reaching its intended target.

[genesimmons]

Do scouts improve faster if you ask them to give you reports all the time?

[burjennio]

My fullbacks get torn apart away to the top sides and I cannot seem to be able to stop it. Now, since I have Kyle Walker at right back I could cynically say that this is probably understandable, but since he is mystifyingly overpowered in this game I realize that is not the reason. Can I ask how you guys deal with the likes of Hazard, Silva, Bale and Ronaldo? I used any number of P.Is and O.Is as well as setting up so defensively but nothing seems to work.

[CRN711]

I also have a problem with my fullbacks. I play a 4-1-2-1-2, and they were on Cwb duty and they pressed to high, leaving the winger alone. So I try WB (S) and I have the same problem even with the PI instruction 'press less" they press the opposition fullback and I don't want them to. Any idea on how I can make it work?

[Dr. Hook]

I also have a problem with my fullbacks. I play a 4-1-2-1-2, and they were on Cwb duty and they pressed to high, leaving the winger alone. So I try WB (S) and I have the same problem even with the PI instruction 'press less" they press the opposition fullback and I don't want them to. Any idea on how I can make it work?

You could try setting them to Fullback- you'll lose some offensive width at time, but it might help your situation.

[llama3]

My fullbacks get torn apart away to the top sides and I cannot seem to be able to stop it. Now, since I have Kyle Walker at right back I could cynically say that this is probably understandable, but since he is mystifyingly overpowered in this game I realize that is not the reason. Can I ask how you guys deal with the likes of Hazard, Silva, Bale and Ronaldo? I used any number of P.Is and O.Is as well as setting up so defensively but nothing seems to work.

I tend to focus on the team, not so much on the individuals - so, I will tend to simply sit narrower or wider, deeper or higher, show wide men inside or outside depending on the general set up of the team. No single right or wrong answer. Sometimes I will show players inside, but into a more compact middle - i.e. into cul-de-sacs - sometimes a high line used despite a fast wide man, because the centre forwards are slow.

[joey7]

Can counter -short passing be used in conjunction with the pass into space shout?

[aston_martin]

3 questions, not necessarily stupid but quite basic.

Can you use a TM(s) up front by himself? I'm trying it in a 4-5-1 (with wide men in the AML/R position, one on IF(s) and the other as a W(a), and a CM(a)) with Benteke but finding that it's not working so well. I'm starting to think that a TM might be best suited just for 2 man strike partnerships so on the counter there's someone closer to support?

Reading wwfan's 14 steps, he says that the team strategies are a bit plastic, and that if you want to implement a fast style emphasising wing, control/attacking might be best. Would it make sense to do this with say some more defensive shouts to try and have a style that sits quite deep with men behind the ball before getting the ball wide fast and getting crosses in? Or would going something like a counter style be better?

I've read about the generalisation/specialisation stuff with rigidity/fluidity. How do you balance this in a squad (say like Aston Villa's) that's limited both in terms of individual talent such that you'd not really be comfortable giving out lots of specialised roles, but doesn't have the collective mental attributes to be trusted with much creative freedom?