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Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)


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1 hour ago, Sharkn20 said:

That's something that you can try in your save and let us know how it went!

What did you find with it?

Well, I'm using a 4141 possession-based tactic, relying on the principle that the formation is the defensive shape of the team, and as far as I can see, players don't stop pressing, but managing FC Porto, I'm in late October and, all competitions, the only goals I've suffered was a 0-3 defeat against Man. City, a draw 1-1 against Benfica and a victory 2-1 against At. Madrid, all the rest are clean sheets.

My point / doubt / question was in a sense of replicating the Guardiola's 6 second rule: press and recover the ball, if not so... regroup.

 

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1 hour ago, pedrosantos said:

Well, I'm using a 4141 possession-based tactic, relying on the principle that the formation is the defensive shape of the team, and as far as I can see, players don't stop pressing, but managing FC Porto, I'm in late October and, all competitions, the only goals I've suffered was a 0-3 defeat against Man. City, a draw 1-1 against Benfica and a victory 2-1 against At. Madrid, all the rest are clean sheets.

My point / doubt / question was in a sense of replicating the Guardiola's 6 second rule: press and recover the ball, if not so... regroup.

 

Then, you want to counter press and lower the line of engagement. So if they don't win the possession in transition they comeback to reagroup for the defensive phase.

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7 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

Ideal PPMs for the following:

  • BWM?
  • Half Back?
  • Pressing Forward?

Pressing Forward (At)

- Gets Forward Whenever Possible
- Gets Into Opposition Area
- Likes to Beat Offside Trap
- Move Into Channels
- Plays One-Twos

Ball Winning Midfielder (De)

- Plays No Through Balls
- Plays Short Simple Passes
- Refrains From Taking Long Shots
- Run with Ball Rarely
- Stays Back at All Times

Half-Back

- Comes Deep to Get Ball
- Likes Ball Played Into Feet
- Runs with The Ball Rarely
- Stays Back at All Times

 

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20 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Then, you want to counter press and lower the line of engagement. So if they don't win the possession in transition they comeback to reagroup for the defensive phase.

Thank you. My question was not about how to do it, but the if thought I presented could make any sense.

I know I can (even should) watch matches, its just a matter of colleting expertise opinions.

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38 minutes ago, pedrosantos said:

Thank you. My question was not about how to do it, but the if thought I presented could make any sense.

I know I can (even should) watch matches, its just a matter of colleting expertise opinions.

You wanted to replicate the 6 seconds rule of Guardiola. I explained to You how to do it in game 🙄.

How you do it now is just high press, managing Oporto that's what you should be doing anyways in your local league. You will however struggle in Europe against better opposition as demonstrated by conceding more goals against them, or Benfica.

Edited by Sharkn20
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2 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

You wanted to replicate the 6 seconds rule of Guardiola. I explained to You how to do it in game 🙄.

How you do it now is just high press, managing Oporto that's what you should be doing anyways in your local league. You will however struggle in Europe against better opposition as demonstrated by conceding more goals against them, or Benfica.

Thanks once more. So the TI to regroup has no influence?

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18 minutes ago, pedrosantos said:

Thanks once more. So the TI to regroup has no influence?

It does, but first they will retreat to defensive positions, then start the pressing from the lines of engagement that you have set. Therefore getting exposed at the back by teams that can pass the ball around your pressure, specially late in the game when your players are tired.

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7 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

It does, but first they will retreat to defensive positions, then start the pressing from the lines of engagement that you have set. Therefore getting exposed at the back by teams that can pass the ball around your pressure, specially late in the game when your players are tired.

Nice, thank you so much:thup:

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What are some good PPMs for a DLF-S in a patient control possession system? Maybe "Plays With Back To Goal" if they're strong. I'm curious whether you can pair that with either "Tries Killer Killer Balls Often" or "Likes To Switch Ball To Wide Areas" or even both?

Edited by WannabePulis
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Most of the preset tactics for possession style football has either 'fairly narrow' or 'very narrow' setting selected. I guess in line with staying close to aid control of the ball. My question is how then is width created. How do you then stretch the opposition. A team like Man City for example IRL paly with a lot of width in attack, yet also employs a possession based style. So how do we reconcile that.

Thanks

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37 minutes ago, cgogude said:

Most of the preset tactics for possession style football has either 'fairly narrow' or 'very narrow' setting selected. I guess in line with staying close to aid control of the ball. My question is how then is width created. How do you then stretch the opposition. A team like Man City for example IRL paly with a lot of width in attack, yet also employs a possession based style. So how do we reconcile that.

Thanks

Get players with high passing / decision / technique.

Manchester City has players technically sound for their tactic.

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27 minutes ago, cgogude said:

So what about creating width?

WBs and Ws should create plenty width. Even rhough playing narrow they will still be in the wings.

Specially if they have traits like "Hug the line"

Edited by Sharkn20
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FM21 - almost the template for 4231 gegenpress. My AMR+AML (inverted winger - inside forward) always get terrible ratings (6.5 or lower). Their passing completion is on par with the rest, their crossing could probably be better. Is this a match engine flaw that rates them low, or what else can you do?

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23 hours ago, The #9.5 said:

Does the 'Cuts Inside from Flank' PPM only on the ball move/instructions? Or does it affect the player's movement off the ball too?

Its a with the Ball instruction. Off the ball movement will be most likely determined by the roles. Move into Channels PPM can help your player to move off the ball into the channels. Roaming PI or Sit narrower can also affect your players off the ball movement / positioning.

6 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

FM21 - almost the template for 4231 gegenpress. My AMR+AML (inverted winger - inside forward) always get terrible ratings (6.5 or lower). Their passing completion is on par with the rest, their crossing could probably be better. Is this a match engine flaw that rates them low, or what else can you do?

Depends on how involved those players are to your game. Is there space for them to operate in? especially in a 4231 the central areas can be quite congested which makes it hard for an IF to really shine.

Edited by CARRERA
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If you turn on distribute to Target Man but have no Target Man role in the formation, does the GK still long ball to the strikers?

Also I'm trying to get my tactic to win the 2nd ball after the long ball to the strikers. I want the strikers to receive the long ball and make a short flick to a mid fielder or a winger. I was thinking that the entire team would kind of bunch up wherever the ball is kicked long from the GK. I was wondering if there is a way that I can do this on FM21

Edited by Djeon36
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I am on 7th position in a league with 16 teams; the minimal objective is mid-table. the Board is unhappy with my performance and wants to fire me. Any idea what I am missing? WTF mid-table means?

20211130213839_1.jpg

Edited by CharlieTZR
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15 hours ago, CharlieTZR said:

I am on 7th position in a league with 16 teams; the minimal objective is mid-table. the Board is unhappy with my performance and wants to fire me. Any idea what I am missing? WTF mid-table means?

20211130213839_1.jpg

C- is not wanting to fire You. You are pretty safe, just achieving the goals, carry on like that.

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On 30/11/2021 at 21:38, CharlieTZR said:

I am on 7th position in a league with 16 teams; the minimal objective is mid-table. the Board is unhappy with my performance and wants to fire me. Any idea what I am missing? WTF mid-table means?

20211130213839_1.jpg

Be aware that there is currently a bug with Casa Liga I and board confidence, I've seen FCSB sack their manager couple of times white they were in top of the league, due to a 'poor performance in the league'

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20 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

C- is not wanting to fire You. You are pretty safe, just achieving the goals, carry on like that.

Thanks, I eventually avoided this by making some points as agreed with board. Yet, the behaviour of the board is simply insane, it's my 4th save where I am about to be fired although I met my objective; next day I am out of the objective in the league I get something from board, a warning, some talks etc. 

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3 hours ago, WannabePulis said:

Be aware that there is currently a bug with Casa Liga I and board confidence, I've seen FCSB sack their manager couple of times white they were in top of the league, due to a 'poor performance in the league'

Thanks, seems like a bug, the board is insane compared with Fm22; I'll check bug lounge to see if it is reported. 

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8 hours ago, CKBrahMa said:

Hey ! Do you know if weather has an impact on FM ?

Like, if it rains goalkeepers might have sloppy hands or it can be difficult to defend dribble with rains ?

 

If it does have an impact, what advice can you give me pls ?

It does, the worst the weather is, the most technique your players need.

If your players are not technically sound, try to play more direct with bad weather.

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il y a une heure, Sharkn20 a dit :

It does, the worst the weather is, the most technique your players need.

If your players are not technically sound, try to play more direct with bad weather.

Is that as simple ? I think, maybe by mistake, it is easier to dribble with a rainy weather rather than a sunny weather (i’m taking as an example the PSG-Bayern under the snow of the last CL quarter final, first leg : dribbles were way more efficient for all PSG players, like it increased their technique).

 

Moreover, what do you call « bad weather » ? Rain ? Snow or both ? Warm ? Cold ? Windy ?

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I know there is a bug with inside forwards cutting in effectively but does this also apply to inverted wingers as well? If the answer is yes, has anyone found a difference if they are started further back in the formation a la right midfielder 

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24 minutes ago, Fieldsy said:

I know there is a bug with inside forwards cutting in effectively but does this also apply to inverted wingers as well? If the answer is yes, has anyone found a difference if they are started further back in the formation a la right midfielder 

In FM21 (and it appears carrying over to 22) IWs are the clear winner over IFs.

I currently use an IW(A) right midfield and he scored as many goals as he did as an IW(A) in the attacking tier and contributes more all round from midfield as opposed to further up

Edited by CaptCanuck
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31 minutes ago, Fieldsy said:

Thanks ok so the issue with being underpowered and not cutting in seems to be isolated to inside forwards?

Anecdotally vs an IW: yes. Vs other outside options IDK.

Of course YMMV, but if you do a test and run through 3 or 4 matches with the same tactic once with an IW and once with an IF you should be able to see a difference in the contribution of that player.

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17 hours ago, Fieldsy said:

I know there is a bug with inside forwards cutting in effectively but does this also apply to inverted wingers as well? If the answer is yes, has anyone found a difference if they are started further back in the formation a la right midfielder 

I use IF-(At) and have no problems with the player cutting in and scoring goals that way. So maybe review your tactic and see if they have space to cut in.

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On 03/12/2021 at 08:29, CKBrahMa said:

Is that as simple ? I think, maybe by mistake, it is easier to dribble with a rainy weather rather than a sunny weather (i’m taking as an example the PSG-Bayern under the snow of the last CL quarter final, first leg : dribbles were way more efficient for all PSG players, like it increased their technique).

 

Moreover, what do you call « bad weather » ? Rain ? Snow or both ? Warm ? Cold ? Windy ?

Yes it is that simple, rain and snow. Never had problems with the wind bit.

The bad weather simulation bit is not that important in FM like in real life. Players don't fall over or anything like that. Even FIFA represents it better than FM with what the ball does.

Edited by Sharkn20
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Is there a way to make the opposition instructions for certain positions always apply to whoever you are playing against? Before a match you have to click on the 'opposition instructions' and change it yourself anyway. Surely there should be some way for it to be automatic?

 

1255203292_Screenshot2021-12-04at18_26_18.png.691b5e83cb2670ec91de395e2769155e.png

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21 minutes ago, lckyby said:

Is there a way to make the opposition instructions for certain positions always apply to whoever you are playing against? Before a match you have to click on the 'opposition instructions' and change it yourself anyway. Surely there should be some way for it to be automatic?

 

1255203292_Screenshot2021-12-04at18_26_18.png.691b5e83cb2670ec91de395e2769155e.png

Tactics --> Opposition instructions.

However that's risky business apply "generic" OI to every team.

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25 minutes ago, lckyby said:

I have done that but then when I get to the tactics page before a match it just looks like this. I'm guessing there is no way to automatically press/tight mark/show weak foot onto certain positions automatically.

 

979538916_Screenshot2021-12-04at21_01_58.thumb.png.71fe96b6bd64b37c896481acae206a75.png

I see, I still wouldn't do it, it's a 60 seconds job before the match and you can tailor OIs to specific players.

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Is it possible to play the Clubs World Cup without having the players in terrible form? Every time I have to play it with the squad in poor condition because the game doesn't allow me to train prior to the competition and yet, every other european team in it are playing it with their players in 100%. Am i missing something?

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On 28/11/2021 at 22:09, CARRERA said:

hard to say without any footage of your tactic. properbly start a thread about it so people can have a look. I think its too complex for the quickfire thread.

I opened a topic but unfortunately didnt get much reply. The problem also keeps persisting, even with newer (better) players

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is a player's response to individual training randomised and/or built in from the start? I have a player that's 22, with a professional personality, keep complaining that the individual training i assigned him isn't beneficial. It's neither an attribute that is particularly low or high, and as far as i know he definitely still has plenty of room to improve. i had always had problems getting players to train their weakest attributes but this is new to me.

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I know that PIs>TIs>OIs but are they cumulative? For example, If I set all three to tackle harder will my players tackle much harder than if only one of the three instructions was set to tackle harder? I ask because in my last match I added some OIs to tackle harder and suddenly ended up with six yellow cards ... I appreciate this was only one match but even so...

EDIT The effects of combining passing directness through TIs and PIs can be seen in the tactics creator but does anybody know how this applies to tackling instructions?

Edited by Hovis Dexter
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Can bottom heavy formations be truly competent with aggressive pressing? If so, is there anything specific I need to keep in mind in regards to the pressing instructions, for example should line of engagement be higher to push everyone higher or lower to keep the distance between strikers and midfield more compact? I've never used 5 at the back variants in FM before but I wanted to finally give it a go with 5-1-2-2 with wide centerbacks, wing backs, dm, mc, mc and two strikers. Just played one game with the first iteration of the tactic so far and it worked good offensively, but we didn't really seem to get the pressing down to science yet. If needed I can post screenshots about the tactic later today, but that might be better suited for it's own topic.

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1 hour ago, Puluzu said:

Can bottom heavy formations be truly competent with aggressive pressing? If so, is there anything specific I need to keep in mind in regards to the pressing instructions, for example should line of engagement be higher to push everyone higher or lower to keep the distance between strikers and midfield more compact? I've never used 5 at the back variants in FM before but I wanted to finally give it a go with 5-1-2-2 with wide centerbacks, wing backs, dm, mc, mc and two strikers. Just played one game with the first iteration of the tactic so far and it worked good offensively, but we didn't really seem to get the pressing down to science yet. If needed I can post screenshots about the tactic later today, but that might be better suited for it's own topic.

Of course the high pressing isn't going to be as effective as when you play a 4231 simply because of the number of players you have up top. With the 5 at the back formation you have just your 2 strikers and with the 4231 you have 4 players just keep that in mind 

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7 minutes ago, DarJ said:

Of course the high pressing isn't going to be as effective as when you play a 4231 simply because of the number of players you have up top. With the 5 at the back formation you have just your 2 strikers and with the 4231 you have 4 players just keep that in mind 

Yes obviously it won't be AS effective, but can it still be viable enough to even bother doing it or are you better off regrouping and instigating the press later? My gut says the press won't work good enough to justify the counter attacking goals conceded because of it,

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14 minutes ago, Puluzu said:

Yes obviously it won't be AS effective, but can it still be viable enough to even bother doing it or are you better off regrouping and instigating the press later? My gut says the press won't work good enough to justify the counter attacking goals conceded because of it,

I've never played with that shape so I can't tell

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