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Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)


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I'm only rediscovering this forum after a 10y hiatus on FM (mostly hanging out in the Off topic section), but the epic freebie made me buy fm21. Most things regarding scouting, staff etc feel familiar but tactics I struggle with, mostly because the concept of roles is a bit alien to me.  I'm gonna check the pairs and combinations guide asap, but a few questions. Im on my first save after a testgame (that went horribly wrong), just did the setup and preseason

 

1) is this the best place to get tactical feedback or do people prefer a new topic per tactic?

2) whats the view on set pieces? I feel a bit cheesy sometimes, especially with the long throws which seem kinda broken.

3) Anyone who can summarize what each preset tactic need in a team? I'm the person who likes to build a tactic for a team I've been given/chosen, rather than shoehorning a team into a preference. I know passing and vision for tiki taka, but the difference in requirements between fluid and direct counter attack is harder, or route 1...

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8 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Focus in D#, counter attacks and set pieces, they can buy you more than one W.

this is my setup, i got promoted via the playoffs playing a more possession based system, unsure if i have the players to play a defensive/counter system, or if this would even be considered a good system. open to any comments/criticism 

Screenshot 2021-01-04 at 09.20.03.png

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12 hours ago, Carney48 said:

Can anyone direct me to any good threads on what to do when you're team is MASSIVELY struggling. Got promoted too soon and currently rock bottom and cant buy a win.

This is what worked for me in similar situation. Save before match. Play a match on full highlights. Look what's going wrong tactically. After you played (and lost), load again. Make changes to tactics and lineup. Play this very same game again, again on full match highlights. Load again and make more changes. It took me four tries until I won 3-1 the match, that in previous tries I was loosing hopelessly.

My winning tactics were weird (posting from phone, so can't screenshot it)

PF-d PF-d

CAR CAR

Anchor man

5 defs line WBa CD CD CD WBa

Both PFs are told to man mark opponent's wingbacks.

Short passing, wide, waste time frequently, cautious mentality, ease of tackles (ops free kicks could kill you).

This tactics works in english conferences when your team "faces the impossible"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by nully29
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14 hours ago, Viking said:

Surey there must be a way to tell my idiot players to pass the ball more direct, but still prioritize there's actually someone to pass the ball to, insted of just hauling the ball away at random as fast as possible? Most likley into a group of oposition players.

From what I've seen, some players just love to hoof. I failed to distill it to particular attributes or PPM. I put a player in some role and he just hoofs almost every time. I put another player there instead, with similar attributes, and he plays short passes.

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1 hour ago, Carney48 said:

this is my setup, i got promoted via the playoffs playing a more possession based system, unsure if i have the players to play a defensive/counter system, or if this would even be considered a good system. open to any comments/criticism 

Screenshot 2021-01-04 at 09.20.03.png

Try this: 

Remove wingers. Instead, add another CD and another PF.

Most TI should be possession-based. If you are massive underdog, you probably won't produce many quality fast breaks. Attacks should go via wingbacks, who should run wide and produce throw-ins and, hopefully, corners. Both PF should man-mark opposite wingbacks, it works very well for deep defense. Make both CMs carrileros so they would cover flanks. Put your tallest strongest players at CD, even if they are not defs. Your defensive depth should depend on the way opponent is playing. If he threatens from crosses, defend wider. If he takes long shots, defend narrower. Also increasing pressure helps to eliminate long shots.

Also, training should be entirely about set pieces. A lot of defend free kicks, defend corners, with some attacking corners and attacking free kicks mixed in.

Edited by nully29
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On 21/12/2020 at 17:44, interferemadly said:

Guys, any general tips to avoid conceding from long shots? 

Defend narrow, increase pressure and higher defensive line. Two of those three would do. 

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On 23/12/2020 at 22:44, lanewalk said:

I'm managing Bayern in FM21 Touch. I'm really still beginner at tactics so following the advice of Rashidi and trying out some of the presets as well as his Bayern Vertical Tiki Taka tactic that he posted recently. One thing I noticed, the tactics recommended by the Assistant with the thumbs up changes from time to time. I had Wing Play suggested previously but not now, Tiki-Taka and Control Possession are recommended now when they weren't before. Why would this change while I've still got the same players? There's always three suggested options, just not the same three.

Assistant's suggestions are awful and, worse, random. Furthermore, it is entirely possible that after you set up according to his advice, he would give you a contextual advice to change formation to something else.

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11 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

is this the best place to get tactical feedback or do people prefer a new topic per tactic?

A new topic per tactic, definitely. Because this thread is exclusively about the simplest questions that can be dealt with by the simplest and shortest possible answers. Everything else requires a separate thread topic. 

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When playing with slow strikers, who aren't expected to beat defenders by pace or dribble - does it make sense to play with a higher LOE (and maybe a higher DL as well)? So their average position and where they receive passes are much closer to the box.

And what would your in possesion/in transition ideas be to get the most out of them?

Edited by Chris2509
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42 minutes ago, Chris2509 said:

When playing with slow strikers, who aren't expected to beat defenders by pace or dribble - does it make sense to play with a higher LOE (and maybe a higher DL as well)? So their average position and where they receive passes are much closer to the box

Playing with a higher LOE does not necessarily mean they will be high up the pitch when they receive a pass. The LOE defines where on the pitch you want your players to start pressing and tackling the opposition when your team is defending. But positioning of your strikers/forwards can vary irrespective of the LOE setting. It has to do with a lot more than just LOE. 

Anyway, for more details on this as well as your other question, you'll need to start your own separate thread.

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1 minute ago, Experienced Defender said:

Playing with a higher LOE does not necessarily mean they will be high up the pitch when they receive a pass. The LOE defines where on the pitch you want your players to start pressing and tackling the opposition when your team is defending. But positioning of your strikers/forwards can vary irrespective of the LOE setting. It has to do with a lot more than just LOE. 

Anyway, for more details on this as well as your other question, you'll need to start your own separate thread.

 

Thanks! I understand it has plenty to do with the formation and build up, but in general - low LOE will typically see the team winning the ball further away from goal - requiring the strikers to cover larger distances, with and without the ball. Is that line of thinking correct?

 

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6 minutes ago, Chris2509 said:

I understand it has plenty to do with the formation and build up, but in general - low LOE will typically see the team winning the ball further away from goal - requiring the strikers to cover larger distances, with and without the ball. Is that line of thinking correct?

That's true, yes. However, a high(er) LOE does not guarantee your players/forwards will win the ball high up the pitch. It only asks them to try to do that, which is not the same thing. Because they can try and fail ;)

Plus, where your players will win the ball back and where your striker(s) will receive a pass from a teammate in a given situation is also not the same thing. 

Basically, higher LOE suits attack-minded styles of play (whether possession or fast-transition based), whereas lower LOE suits defensive-minded styles (whether counter-attacking or more passive). So that should be the main consideration to take into account when deciding on the LOE. 

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Aside from early crosses, what else can you do to decrease the amount of crosses being blocked (which feels like 95% atm)? Even with sufficient support, they often take too long to deliver it

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20 minutes ago, eXistenZ said:

Aside from early crosses, what else can you do to decrease the amount of crosses being blocked (which feels like 95% atm)? Even with sufficient support, they often take too long to deliver it

You can start a separate thread topic (preferably with a screenshot of your tactic included), because you will be far more likely to get proper advice there than here. Simply because your question is a lot more complex than this quickfire thread is meant for. 

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1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

You can start a separate thread topic (preferably with a screenshot of your tactic included), because you will be far more likely to get proper advice there than here. Simply because your question is a lot more complex than this quickfire thread is meant for. 

Will do, thank you

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Is it a good idea to send my youngsters out on loan to clubs that don't have staff (the leagues aren't loaded) but have good enough training facilities? Or will their attributes not develop enough compared to one with staff.

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6 hours ago, Bakiano said:

@Experienced Defender

 

Will be there another 4231 thread from you for this FM version?

No, but I regularly share advice in other people's threads who use the 4231 formation. And given how many such threads we have here on the forum, you can find more than enough material anyway ;)

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I am wondering if there is a way short of managing the team myself of making my youth team manager play a winger in the striker position when selected.

I am training him in the CF position and with a striker role and feel this will be helped by also playing his matches in that position.

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45 minutes ago, Os said:

I am wondering if there is a way short of managing the team myself of making my youth team manager play a winger in the striker position when selected.

I am training him in the CF position and with a striker role and feel this will be helped by also playing his matches in that position.

You should receive a notification asking you which first team players should be made available for the next youth fixture. At this time you can go into the youth team screen and select the team yourself. The youth manager should then use this selected team to start the next match.

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57 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

You should receive a notification asking you which first team players should be made available for the next youth fixture. At this time you can go into the youth team screen and select the team yourself. The youth manager should then use this selected team to start the next match.

Thanks

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20 minutes ago, Footix said:

What's the difference between assigning an "attack" duty vs assigning a "support" duty + player instruction "get further forward"?

The most obvious difference is that a player with an attack duty will have a higher individual mentality than a player on support duty, regardless of the instruction.

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1 hour ago, Footix said:
2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

a player with an attack duty will have a higher individual mentality

Sorry, what does this mean exactly?

The individual mentality of a single player, based on his duty. As opposed to the team mentality, which defines the basic mindset of the team as a whole. 

A player on attack duty will have a higher individual mentality than a player on support, and a player on support will likewise- and logically - have a higher individual mentality than a player on defend. 

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46 minutes ago, Smiza said:

I read about different pressing styles: Low block, high block, split block (?). But what does it mean and how do I set them up?

The simplest answer is:

low block = lower or much lower Line of engagement (LOE)

high block = higher or much higher LOE

mid block = standard LOE

Split block is a strategy in which you leave the team pressing urgency on default (medium) setting and then tell your 3-5 most advanced players to close down more via player instructions. The lighter version of split block involves 2 players only.

But if you want a more detailed discussion, you'll have to start your own separate thread topic

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How good is the basic fluid counterattack system in FM? I reran the same match against a slightly bigger opponent several times with this tactic and recommended formation. Everytime the same result : getting pummeled with shots on target and xG. Once I do get hold of the ball it's hoofed upfield despite shorter passing.  I thought the point of the counter attack mentality was to deny space/shots and break away occasionally?

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What is the best option for a lone striker with two players in the AML/AMR slot but no one in the AMC position? I've tried a few roles but have issues, I feel like the Advanced Forward provides the best goal threat and most penetration but can easily go missing during matches whereas more supporting roles like the Deep Lying Forward and Complete Forward just don't get enough goals for me despite linking the play better.

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29 minutes ago, GShrieves said:

What is the best option for a lone striker with two players in the AML/AMR slot but no one in the AMC position? I've tried a few roles but have issues, I feel like the Advanced Forward provides the best goal threat and most penetration but can easily go missing during matches whereas more supporting roles like the Deep Lying Forward and Complete Forward just don't get enough goals for me despite linking the play better.

Entirely depends on your team and the way you're trying to play.  The DLF(A) can be a nice mix of the two, comes deep to get the ball but also looks to get in the box and be a goal threat. 

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2 hours ago, eXistenZ said:

How good is the basic fluid counterattack system in FM? I reran the same match against a slightly bigger opponent several times with this tactic and recommended formation. Everytime the same result : getting pummeled with shots on target and xG. Once I do get hold of the ball it's hoofed upfield despite shorter passing.  I thought the point of the counter attack mentality was to deny space/shots and break away occasionally?

I assume you are talking about the preset fluid counter tactic, right? 

if so, I can only tell you that preset tactics in general are fairly poorly designed IMHO and I personally never use them. The intention on the part of SI was good, but the execution unfortunately was not.

In case you want to discuss the tactic in more detail, you'll need to start your own separate thread.

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1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

I assume you are talking about the preset fluid counter tactic, right? 

if so, I can only tell you that preset tactics in general are fairly poorly designed IMHO and I personally never use them. The intention on the part of SI was good, but the execution unfortunately was not.

In case you want to discuss the tactic in more detail, you'll need to start your own separate thread.

Ok, good to know.  It's always a bit confusing for when you're a bit newer and the presets don't seem to work that good, or contradict stuff you find online.

So you would say it's best to start with a blank slate completly and build the tactic from there, step by step? For the countertactic for example:

I want my players to be close together- more narrow

I want shorter, faster passing - short/higher tempo

I want to catch them on the break and deny them space- lowerengagement+defensive  line and more congested pitch etc....

 and then fill in roles?

Edited by eXistenZ
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1 hour ago, eXistenZ said:

So you would say it's best to start with a blank slate completly and build the tactic from there, step by step?

Yes :thup: 

 

1 hour ago, eXistenZ said:

For the countertactic for example:

I want my players to be close together- more narrow

I want shorter, faster passing - short/higher tempo

I want to catch them on the break and deny them space- lowerengagement+defensive  line and more congested pitch etc....

 and then fill in roles?

As I said previously, you'll have to start your own separate thread topic for a discussion about a specific tactic. Not here.

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Why when 1 opp is running at my 2 cbs do centre backs both always drop off all the way to my penalty box

Even though my tactic is high pressing and high line?

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I remember that in older FMs, team mentality affected the passing directness this way (the effect was visible in the Player Instructions panel):

on more attacking team mentalities:
defend duty players* had shorter passing, while attack duty players had more direct passing.

on more defensive team mentalities:
defend duty players had more direct passing, while attack duty players had shorter passing.

Does the above still apply? Because in today's FMs this effect is not visible in the Player Instruction panel.

*I am not 100% sure if the duty or the players's position on the pitch was the factor, eg. on attacking team mentalities, defenders passed it shorter, or everyone with a defend duty.

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2 hours ago, cocoadavid said:

I remember that in older FMs, team mentality affected the passing directness this way (the effect was visible in the Player Instructions panel):

on more attacking team mentalities:
defend duty players* had shorter passing, while attack duty players had more direct passing.

on more defensive team mentalities:
defend duty players had more direct passing, while attack duty players had shorter passing.

Does the above still apply? Because in today's FMs this effect is not visible in the Player Instruction panel.

*I am not 100% sure if the duty or the players's position on the pitch was the factor, eg. on attacking team mentalities, defenders passed it shorter, or everyone with a defend duty.

It still applies and is reflected in tempo / pass directness bars in TI.

Edited by Sharkn20
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Training related question.
When I should use this chat options?
Players almost always don't agree with me after this phrase.
I start to think this phrases are useless just like "praise/criticise conduct"

Снимок экрана (1909).png

Снимок экрана (1910).png

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1 hour ago, Englishhammer said:

In a 4411 what striker would suit working with a shadow striker in the AMC? Complete forward if you have one? 

A number of striker roles can be paired with a SS in a 4411, depending on the style of play and type of players (most notably CF, DLF, TQ, F9, TM). 

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Does the 'tackle harder' PI increase how often the player will try to tackle or whether they will go for aggressive potentially fouling tackles? or both? Asking because I noticed the PPM counterpart 'Does not dive into tackles' says it decreases the likelihood of the player engaging in tackles however the PI description is slightly ambiguous for this

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1 hour ago, wixxi said:

Does the 'tackle harder' PI increase how often the player will try to tackle or whether they will go for aggressive potentially fouling tackles? or both?

Both. 

 

1 hour ago, wixxi said:

Asking because I noticed the PPM counterpart 'Does not dive into tackles' says it decreases the likelihood of the player engaging in tackles however the PI description is slightly ambiguous for this

Decreases, but does not entirely eliminate. 

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When looking at the opponent's goal analysis, in this example below it states the majority of goals they conceded were assisted from the right wing. Does the right wing refers to their right wing (eg. DR position), or is that from their opponent's perspective (eg. opponent's right winger)?

1523834493_rightside.PNG.a6e236e86fc20573f8d4efde08002061.PNG

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Quick question regarding youth development, Do you tend to train younger players in a generic "playing position" or do you focus them early on?  For example I have a young 17 year old in my squad who is natural in AM, but he has all the attributes for a F9. So I want to play him there when the time is right, if i leave it on default playing position it trains him in AM(s). Should I start focusing his training early or let his attributes develop naturally for a couple of seasons by training in AM, then focus him on the F9 role?

I assume if I focus him early his attributes for the role will get higher quicker but his other attributes will suffer accordingly?

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1 hour ago, cocoadavid said:

When looking at the opponent's goal analysis, in this example below it states the majority of goals they conceded were assisted from the right wing. Does the right wing refers to their right wing (eg. DR position), or is that from their opponent's perspective (eg. opponent's right winger)?

As far as I know, it should be their right wing. But not 100% sure. 

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Can having two playmakers in your team work and is their any guidance for how to go about pulling it off? For example two wide playmakers in a 442 or an advanced playmaker and deep lying playmaker in a midfield trio? I have seen comments before saying that you should avoid it and that it's not feasible

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26 minutes ago, GShrieves said:

Can having two playmakers in your team work and is their any guidance for how to go about pulling it off? For example two wide playmakers in a 442 or an advanced playmaker and deep lying playmaker in a midfield trio? I have seen comments before saying that you should avoid it and that it's not feasible

Can work, but if you want any further discussion, you'll have to start your own separate thread topic.

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5 hours ago, cocoadavid said:

When looking at the opponent's goal analysis, in this example below it states the majority of goals they conceded were assisted from the right wing. Does the right wing refers to their right wing (eg. DR position), or is that from their opponent's perspective (eg. opponent's right winger)?

1523834493_rightside.PNG.a6e236e86fc20573f8d4efde08002061.PNG

It should be your right flank imo. They create goals from that more.

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Which 'staff role' is responsible to identify the roles of the opposition team during a match ?

Are there any other things taking into consideration apart the attributes of the  above staff member ?

I am asking because it takes longer time now to receive information about opposition roles, in the picture below it's 25th minute and they havent appeared yet (Indepediente formation).
46f9ee23c073be52a8b34113487833b4.png

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2 hours ago, Luizinho said:

Does the ‘Dribble Less’ TI effects all players, including offensive players that have ‘dribble more’ as a PI?

Yes, but to a lesser extent than those without the PI. 

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