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What is the on-pitch detriment for playing players out of position? Just decisions?

Reason I ask is that I am playing a 32212 with Arsenal with a back three and two wingbacks. I find that quite often my wingbacks drop into a back 5 despite being on WB(A), even when defending against a narrow, single striker formation. This leaves the opposition wingers plenty of space to attack and get a run on my defence, and I'd rather my WB sat further up the pitch when defending (with the CB covering the space behind if the opposition get past). I'm thinking of moving them into the midfield strata against more defensive teams (effectively a 3412) but I'm not sure whether to ditch them and just play poor wingers in that case (when I don't have any real options as I don't use them) or push the WBs up.

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Can someone explain to me how you get centre backs to actually mark a loan striker from hoofs over the top? 

Because I have mark specific player but I still concede goals where I lose the ball in the attacking third and the AI just hoofs the ball instantly down the middle and my two centre-backs are nowhere near the main striker. Its completely stupid and makes no sense but I can't get them to do it, tighter marking, marking specific player etc. Nope a giant hoof over the top apparently bamboozles world class centre backs.

And why also when a hoof like this do the players not actually react until the ball the ball is in the air for quite a while, its like they aren't aware of it until it comes into a certain sector. 

Edited by tajj7
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2 hours ago, tajj7 said:

Can someone explain to me how you get centre backs to actually mark a loan striker from hoofs over the top? 

Because I have mark specific player but I still concede goals where I lose the ball in the attacking third and the AI just hoofs the ball instantly down the middle and my two centre-backs are nowhere near the main striker

Asking a player to specifically mark an opposition player is no guarantee that marking is going to succeed. The same can be said for any other team or player instruction. I personally never use specific man-marking - especially not for my defenders to mark opposition forwards - so I cannot tell you from my experience what's the exact reason this happens to you. And if you play with a high(er) d-line, telling your CBs to specifically mark oppo striker(s) is even more risky.

I only sometimes use specific position-marking, when I tell my MR/ML or AMR/AML to mark the opposition AML/AMR or ML/MR position (not player). But I use that primarily to put some more pressure on oppo wide players and thus help my fullbacks, than for the sake of actual marking.

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I have a problem with my online save and would very much want someone to help me. Me and my friend play online in Swiss league. We use saturday and wednesday matches only. My u21 team has no fixtures but no big deal I arrange friendlies every week. Unfortunately only saturday and wednesday options are available and it turns out every time forst and second team plays on wednesday all my players, even those made available for u21 are not in squad for u21 matches. This makes managing the team much more difficult. Any idea how to solve that? 

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6 hours ago, Dfs said:

I have a problem with my online save and would very much want someone to help me. Me and my friend play online in Swiss league. We use saturday and wednesday matches only. My u21 team has no fixtures but no big deal I arrange friendlies every week. Unfortunately only saturday and wednesday options are available and it turns out every time forst and second team plays on wednesday all my players, even those made available for u21 are not in squad for u21 matches. This makes managing the team much more difficult. Any idea how to solve that? 

This thread is for questions relating to Tactics or Training.  You're best off opening a new thread in the General Discussion forum to ask this :thup:.

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2 hours ago, herne79 said:

This thread is for questions relating to Tactics or Training.  You're best off opening a new thread in the General Discussion forum to ask this :thup:.

You re right. Sorry for spamming. I assumed it would fall into Strategies :)

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15 minutes ago, Dfs said:

You re right. Sorry for spamming. I assumed it would fall into Strategies :)

lol that's not spamming.  Most people in this forum are only interested in tactics so you'll likely get more varied responses in the General Forum (and I know nothing about playing online anyway so can't help).  Cheers.

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4 minutes ago, roggiotis said:

Anyone knows what that means ?

What are the benefits in the long term ?

 

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Well usually investments are meant to even further increase the amout invested. So basicly you will properbly have more money after that.

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18 hours ago, tajj7 said:

Can someone explain to me how you get centre backs to actually mark a loan striker from hoofs over the top? 

Because I have mark specific player but I still concede goals where I lose the ball in the attacking third and the AI just hoofs the ball instantly down the middle and my two centre-backs are nowhere near the main striker. Its completely stupid and makes no sense but I can't get them to do it, tighter marking, marking specific player etc. Nope a giant hoof over the top apparently bamboozles world class centre backs.

And why also when a hoof like this do the players not actually react until the ball the ball is in the air for quite a while, its like they aren't aware of it until it comes into a certain sector. 

I've been managing in the San Marino League, so low level - and was giving up a lot of goals like this.  I have one CD who is excellent at this level... other than his lack of pace.  So I put him as a CD-Stopper - the other (faster) CD as CD-Cover - and these kind of goals went away (watch me concede a bunch tonight when I play!).  You could also try using the offside trap, I guess, but you'd need the right players, which it sounds like you have more chance of having than me!  I guess a Sweeper Keeper might help as well - can't say I've trusted mine in such a role - goodness knows what he'd do!

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1 hour ago, roggiotis said:

Thanx for the response.

So far from the table finances -investments , it says 0 

You may get more ideas if you make a thread in the General Discussion forum, rather than this thread which is for Tactics and Training questions (thread title), as most people who frequent this place are only interested in tactics discussion and will ignore these sort of posts :thup:.

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1 hour ago, herne79 said:

You may get more ideas if you make a thread in the General Discussion forum, rather than this thread which is for Tactics and Training questions (thread title), as most people who frequent this place are only interested in tactics discussion and will ignore these sort of posts :thup:.

ok :thup:

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I have a huge game coming up. I play a low tempo, short passing system. We are a good team. In a 3-team race to win the Premier League, headed to the FA Cup Final, and most relevant to this, playing against Manchester United in the Champions League Quarterfinal. I say this, in case the answer would be different if we were a good or bad team.

The weather is going to be awful. April 6, and it's going to be 27 US degrees, with heavy snow in Manchester. Here is the tactic:

878267562_ScreenShot2019-06-10at10_18_39PM.thumb.png.dbc3f023cdb43501e3aa4aca3c3e0e9c.png

Do I need to change this up for such terrible weather. I really need an away goal or two in the first leg.

Despite the fact that they've scored 78 goals in 32 league games, 9 more than anyone else, United is planning to go with this for this game, at home:

1373498224_ScreenShot2019-06-10at10_20_48PM.thumb.png.6894ddb22b00fcad32079ef30ef3486a.png

We are prone to balls over the top, and I assume they'll be bombing them forward.

Normally, I just play how I play. Maybe make some small tweaks to close a game out like lowering the tempo and playing for set pieces.

But with this extreme weather, should I change anything? I imagine it will be very tough for a DC to turn in the snow and cover on a ball over the top, for example. I don't think I'd change the formation, but I wonder if I should change some of the instructions or roles.

Edited by Joey Numbaz
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Sometimes, faced with similar situations,  I might start with the 'close the game out' set-up and see how it goes. Can always step it up a bit after 20 minutes or so.  Remember, the scout report is only showing how the scout thinks they will play - once or twice I've had a couple of surprises that way.

I don;t think the snow will make much difference, OT has full undersoil heating and is usually a pretty consistent playing surface - might just be a bit soggy and slower than usual, but that's pretty much a tempo adjustment not much more.  Maybe width to shorten passing lengths, or shorter passing, but that's a decision to make once you see how it is paying out.

 

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@Joey Numbaz I'd start the game as normal mate. United look like they are going to be playing very defensively so it's really only Lukaku who you need to worry about. Isolate him and there's no way forward for United. You effectively have 3 players staying back at all times (Anchor man, Half back and BPD) so they should be able to deal with Lukaku. A ball may go over the top but as far as I know those 3 players have decent mentals so I think that's the risk you have to take. 

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23 minutes ago, samwilzrhcp said:

Does having Counter ti ticked affect a possession based tactic?  Is it a good idea generally to have counter press ti ticked when using possession based tactic?

You don't need to have that option selected to play a possession game, but if that's the style of play you want then select it.

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1 hour ago, zZzZzZzZzZzZzZz said:

Do any other attributes besides the long throw attribute come into play during throw-ins?

Does strength matter, for example?

Not speaking as anyone who knows for sure but I would imagine Decisions, Strength and possibly even Technique. Vision might play a part as well - seeing a player making a move, deciding whether to hit him, then having the technique and strength to be able to deliver it.

 

A bit like having a high Heading but low Jumping Reach - can deliver a pin-point header to the top bins, but can;t jump high enough to beat the defender in the air.

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Did the default passing directness changed in FM19 (compared to previous versions)?

In previous versions of FM, the UI suggested (looking at the PIs) that a player's passing lenght/directness was connected to the team's mentality and his duty:

  • With an Attacking team mentality the attack duty players had a more direct passing by default, while defend duty players had it shorter, compared to the teams passing instruction.
  • On the other hand, with a defensive team mentality the defend duty players' passing directness was more direct by default, while the attack duty players had it shorter.
  • Support duty players' passing directness was equal to the passing directness you set in your TI. So if your general passing directness was mixed, and you switched between mentalites, their passing directness always remained the same.
  • If you switched between mentalites, the passing length in the Team Instuctions panel always remained the same.

But in FM19, if you change the team mentality, you can notice that the lower your mentality, the shorter the passing directness:

  • For example with an attacking mentality, the UI suggest that the default passing directness is slightly more direct.
  • With a defensive mentality it is slightly shorter.
  • To me this suggests that every players passing directness is shorter with defending mentality, and every players passing directness is more direct/longer with attacking team mentality. 

So my question is, is the UI telling us what really is happening and FM has changed how mentality affects passing lenght?

It would be really good to know, because in previous FMs if I wanted to play with attacking mentality and more direct passing, then I would change the passing directness manually to more direct, and would not leave in on default. But now in FM19, if I wanted to couple attacking mentality with more direct/longer passing, then I may just leave the passing directness on default.

It may sound a little confusing but I hope the experienced FMers get what I would like to ask.

 

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Hello folks - I'm managing in League 2, as a former semi-pro footballer.  In my third season I as promoted to League 1, at which point something odd happened.  Well, I've never noticed it before anyway.  My players, according to their personal pitch maps, could play new positions.  I hadn't been training them in these new positions (and neither had the AssMan) but, for example, my striker now has yellow dots across the AM strata (nothing there before); my left back now has a faded green dot at CB; my CB now has orange dots at RB, DM and ST.

 

Is this a result of my players' versatility improving?   An increase in my own manager's tactical knowledge?  Improvements to the coaching team (including AssMan)?

 

My apologies if this has been done to death, but I wouldn't know where to begin a search within this thread...  

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On 17/05/2019 at 18:57, Experienced Defender said:

Do you follow Physio (medical) recommendation on individual levels of advisable training intensity for each single player in the Rest section of Training?

i just set it to normal intensity and then rest players based on their fitness levels. so if a player is under 75% fitness i rest them for three days, 76-80% two days, and 81-90% one day.

my physio recommends these players that get injured to be training with double intensity but i only use normal intensity.  still i don't understand why the level of intensity should matter at all when these guys are being injured without any training exercises? the day before matchday, my squad just does "match tactics" and "match preview" but folks still keeping getting injured on these days.

if anyone could give me a heads up on what i'm doing wrong that would be great, because this happened multiple times since i first posted this question. either way, love this series and this year's iteration has been excellent!

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1 hour ago, arsenal3459 said:

i just set it to normal intensity and then rest players based on their fitness levels. so if a player is under 75% fitness i rest them for three days, 76-80% two days, and 81-90% one day.

You are giving too much rest to your players. They already have one day of rest after each match by default, so when you give a player "rest one day", it's actually 2 days of rest; "rest 2 days" are actually 3 days of rest; and so on. I personally tend to follow the Physio recommendation in most cases, especially when he suggests half intensity or even below that (e.g. no pitch and gym work). Apart from physio recommendation, my rest sections is set to normal for condition between 90-100%, half for 80-90 and 70-80, and no pitch/gym work when below 70. Double intensity for the players where physio recommends it, as well as those who are match fit and have low or normal injury risk (except those of an advanced age, i.e. 30 or older). The exception is made when we have a busy schedule that week.

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19 minutes ago, frederikmrck said:

Hi,

I've just made a new tactic, but I've had some trouble scoring goals. I create a lot of chances but can't score. 

Any tips?  

 

17e8ee16dd3036d3388f9e8c86436617.png

You need to start a separate thread. This is for "stupid questions", which yours is not ;)

When you create that thread, I'll be glad to give you some suggestions on this tactic, especially as I already see some potential issues.

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How can I enforce through balls for my advanced forward? What'd be the main tactical points? I constantly see him hugging the line and moving between channels, but no one looks for him. My defenders won't try to look for him, even if the distance is short and he's practically broadcasting an off-the-ball movement. My midfielders won't look for him when winning the possesion back, despite the space. My winger and my IFs look for each other using the space from the AF's movement.

I use a 4123, with a winger on attack and an IF on support. Behind them, I've tried everything. I was hoping to see through balls to my AF from the If when he cuts inside, from the winger with early crosses and defense-breaking killer passes from my midfielders, but it's not happening. Everyone is scoring, except my AF. I have the best players in the game, so stats are not an issue.

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6 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Can a long term injury (9 months or so) decrease player potential ability?

In very rare cases this could happen although I'm not 100% certain it's in the game anymore.

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Thanks.

Another question:

Look at his attributes changes in such a short time, how is this possible, what just happened to my U19 manager? Is he dying lol what the hell

 

1.png

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Edited by mikcheck
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1 hour ago, mikcheck said:

Another question:

Look at his attributes changes in such a short time, how is this possible, what just happened to my U19 manager? Is he dying lol what the hell

Staff attributes can increase or (in this case) decline just as player attributes can.  He's ageing so I'd figure that's why his attributes are going down.  However he isn't that old and it's quite a rapid decline too (over what period is that?) so looks like you just got very unlucky there :(.  Time to get a new U19 Manager I'm afraid.

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8 horas atrás, herne79 disse:

Staff attributes can increase or (in this case) decline just as player attributes can.  He's ageing so I'd figure that's why his attributes are going down.  However he isn't that old and it's quite a rapid decline too (over what period is that?) so looks like you just got very unlucky there :(.  Time to get a new U19 Manager I'm afraid.

I was so happy when I got him, only for a few months later have that happening :seagull:  He went from Guardiola to Alan Pardew in just a couple of months  :D

Never seen that before. And the worse is that I can't get a good one at the moment. Oh well...

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19 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Thanks.

Another question:

Look at his attributes changes in such a short time, how is this possible, what just happened to my U19 manager? Is he dying lol what the hell

 

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@Andrew James  Has @mikcheck just been really unlucky here with his U19 manager dropping attributes so rapidly?  It seems to have happened over just a few months.

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Hi @herne79 @mikcheck

This level of drop off is definitely an example we'd like to have a look at in more detail. Off the top of my head I can't think of anything that would've caused this.

If you still have a save available from before the decline started, could you upload to our cloud service, please?

Instructions on how to upload saves can be found via the link below.

Cheers,

Andrew

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Love to know the answer to this as it is totally baffling me.  I play a 4411 and in three matches this season I have been reduced to 10 men.  The first time I tried to go all defensive to protect a lead and paid the price so on the next two occasions all I did was take out the AM A position and went with a 441 leaving all other settings as they were and won both games and actually played better creating more chances with the striker scoring three great goals.  I therefore wondered if the AM A and striker didn't quite gel as a 4411 as I would love to get the same style of play with 11 players on the pitch but no matter what role I play the AM or even if I move him elsewhere to make a 4141 or something else I can't replicate the great play in the 10 man 441.  I can't play with 10 men all the time so what's happening, it's weird?!?!?!

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55 minutes ago, Sussex Hammer said:

Love to know the answer to this as it is totally baffling me.  I play a 4411 and in three matches this season I have been reduced to 10 men.  The first time I tried to go all defensive to protect a lead and paid the price so on the next two occasions all I did was take out the AM A position and went with a 441 leaving all other settings as they were and won both games and actually played better creating more chances with the striker scoring three great goals.  I therefore wondered if the AM A and striker didn't quite gel as a 4411 as I would love to get the same style of play with 11 players on the pitch but no matter what role I play the AM or even if I move him elsewhere to make a 4141 or something else I can't replicate the great play in the 10 man 441.  I can't play with 10 men all the time so what's happening, it's weird?!?!?!

What may be happening there has more to do with the opposition than your team.  When you get reduced to 10 men the opposition can open up a bit, take a few more risks and come at you.  That in turn can leave space for your players to exploit.  You're still defensively solid as you've taken a man away from AM, not central midfield or defence.  So the opposition come at you, they leave space, you defend solidly still and your players get to use the space.

You can't recreate that particular scenario naturally because naturally you'd have 11 players.

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So here's my stupid question for FM19:

We now have the option to choose if we want our teams to counter attack when we win the ball. But is my team still more likely to counter when playing on cautious or defensive like in years past?

 

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1 hour ago, KongeMeier said:

So here's my stupid question for FM19:

We now have the option to choose if we want our teams to counter attack when we win the ball. But is my team still more likely to counter when playing on cautious or defensive like in years past?

 

I believe it increases the chance of a counter-attack happening, whatever mentality you have set. 

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On ‎09‎/‎07‎/‎2019 at 11:35, herne79 said:

What may be happening there has more to do with the opposition than your team.  When you get reduced to 10 men the opposition can open up a bit, take a few more risks and come at you.  That in turn can leave space for your players to exploit.  You're still defensively solid as you've taken a man away from AM, not central midfield or defence.  So the opposition come at you, they leave space, you defend solidly still and your players get to use the space.

You can't recreate that particular scenario naturally because naturally you'd have 11 players.

Thanks Herne that does make sense.  In fact it's frustrating because it actually produced some fabulous counter attacking football which as you say you can't recreate (or can you?) with 11 men.  Certainly it would be the perfect way to play against harder opponents but no idea what settings you would use to try bar trying to get one of your players deliberately sent off !!!  ;)

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21 minutes ago, Sussex Hammer said:

or can you?

Hmm.  The problem is what you're after probably has more to do with the opposition than your own system.  In your scenario the opposition perhaps went more aggressive because you went down to 10 men, leaving you the space to exploit.  So what you're after (with 11 men) is something similar which gets the opposition to be more aggressive.  And the opposition don't always do what you want :p.

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Hi, quick question here...it is useless to train players in positions i don't  necessarily play them? I want to train all my CDs as BPD, all my CM as RPM for example. Am i wasting my/their time and adding training work for nothing?

Thanks

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34 minutes ago, gam945 said:

Hi, quick question here...it is useless to train players in positions i don't  necessarily play them? I want to train all my CDs as BPD, all my CM as RPM for example. Am i wasting my/their time and adding training work for nothing?

Thanks

Not at all. If you train them in different roles, it changes what attributes they focus on in training, making the players more rounded.

Just for example: You play an all-round BBM in midfield. If you train him as BBM, he'll focus on his core-attributes first. If you train him as APa, he'll develop to be more creative. If you train him as BWMd, he'll develop to be more aggressive. 

It sends a different focus and thus can help to make players to be more complete and to be versatile.

A more extreme example would be an Inside Forward or AP (wide) and a Wide Target Man: Your system has strong wingers who land on your scoreboard almost any game. Your wingbacks switch flanks constantly. You have some good hooves forward. 

If you train them as IFa, they'll be highly technical, be a good at finishing and have a good movement. If you train them as AP, they'll be as technical, be really good at creation but might not be as good in terms of speed. 

But if you cross-train them as WTM, they'll develop some good bulk and be more complete players, able to catch higher balls and resist more tackles. Same if you cross-train the aforementioned roles: Speedy playmakers and can pack a punch. Wide Forwards with supreme eyes. 

As for your roles, your defenders will have a better First Touch (always important especially when being patient), better mentals (obviously important) and better passing (nice to have). If they have open potential, I too always train defenders as BPD (or Libero if I'm feeling funny) — it just makes them better players!

I don't have CM and RPM attributes in my head. But I remember RPM being really rounded and complete, kinda the CF roles played deeper. I could imagine the kinda 'generic' CM getting *really* spread out but with a special added focus on creating chances. I guess you're player will need plenty of PA to not become a Master of None though. 

Edited by Piperita
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22 minutes ago, Piperita said:

Not at all. If you train them in different roles, it changes what attributes they focus on in training, making the players more rounded.

Just for example: You play an all-round BBM in midfield. If you train him as BBM, he'll focus on his core-attributes first. If you train him as APa, he'll develop to be more creative. If you train him as BWMd, he'll develop to be more aggressive. 

It sends a different focus and thus can help to make players to be more complete and to be versatile.

A more extreme example would be an Inside Forward or AP (wide) and a Wide Target Man: Your system has strong wingers who land on your scoreboard almost any game. Your wingbacks switch flanks constantly. You have some good hooves forward. 

If you train them as IFa, they'll be highly technical, be a good at finishing and have a good movement. If you train them as AP, they'll be as technical, be really good at creation but might not be as good in terms of speed. 

But if you cross-train them as WTM, they'll develop some good bulk and be more complete players, able to catch higher balls and resist more tackles. Same if you cross-train the aforementioned roles: Speedy playmakers and can pack a punch. Wide Forwards with supreme eyes. 

Okay, i see, thanks for your answer,it's very appreciated :)

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I have one player, newly signed in the last month or so, who every few days has his training switched from MC-Roaming Playmaker back to MC-position training. I cannot figure out why this keeps happening. It's only this one player. Is there some obscure staff responsibility option that I'm missing? Or something else. It seems like this might be killing his development, the constant back and forth. Nearly everything is down .4 or .2 points in the last month. He's only 22.

I very often get two development emails for the player from the same coach on the same day too.

975325644_ScreenShot2019-07-11at4_48_30PM.thumb.png.3b33d395ef4c6031587d3ca6b55b2776.png545049641_ScreenShot2019-07-11at4_48_50PM.thumb.png.f43f9771419843dc6cd14a754c773fb2.png

Edited by Joey Numbaz
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13 minutes ago, Joey Numbaz said:

I have one player, newly signed in the last month or so, who every few days has his training switched from MC-Roaming Playmaker back to MC-position training. I cannot figure out why this keeps happening. It's only this one player. Is there some obscure staff responsibility option that I'm missing? Or something else. It seems like this might be killing his development, the constant back and forth. Nearly everything is down .4 or .2 points in the last month. He's only 22.

It’s a bug

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said:

It’s a bug

Thanks! Interesting that someone posted that it happens when you play a player out of position. I will keep an eye on that aspect.

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26 minutes ago, Joey Numbaz said:

I have one player, newly signed in the last month or so, who every few days has his training switched from MC-Roaming Playmaker back to MC-position training. I cannot figure out why this keeps happening. It's only this one player. Is there some obscure staff responsibility option that I'm missing? Or something else. It seems like this might be killing his development, the constant back and forth. Nearly everything is down .4 or .2 points in the last month. He's only 22.

I very often get two development emails for the player from the same coach on the same day too.

975325644_ScreenShot2019-07-11at4_48_30PM.thumb.png.3b33d395ef4c6031587d3ca6b55b2776.png545049641_ScreenShot2019-07-11at4_48_50PM.thumb.png.f43f9771419843dc6cd14a754c773fb2.png

So we know it's a bug. That's good. Seems to happen when you play a player at a different position (though I never noticed it with any of my other players and I move them around a lot).

@Seb Wassell does this have impact on development? The constant switching? Or is it only an inconvenience (having to change the player back)? Thanks for any insight.

Edited by Joey Numbaz
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1 hour ago, Joey Numbaz said:

So we know it's a bug. That's good. Seems to happen when you play a player at a different position (though I never noticed it with any of my other players and I move them around a lot).

@Seb Wassell does this have impact on development? The constant switching? Or is it only an inconvenience (having to change the player back)? Thanks for any insight.

This won't harm his development. Drops in attributes would not be related to this issue. Putting someone on X individual training defines how they develop rather than if they develop.

On the issue itself - my apologies that you are experiencing this, it is something we have identified and have under review internally. To combat this in my own save I set up a note to myself, sent weekly, that reminds me to check and amend individual training.

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