Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Dr. Hook]

Can anyone explain the main difference between a trequarista and advanced playmaker with attack duty? i have used both in my current system and sometimes one works better then the other.

Also what is a better defensive option in a flat four midfield DLP with defensive duty or central midfielder with defensive duty?

The Treq at the least has roam from position as a default PI, and though you can't see them anymore, I would say the Treq also has a higher mentality meaning he stays further forward and doesn't drop back as deep on defense. There may be some other difference, but those are the main two that stick out for me.

For #2, it depends on what you want the player to do for you. For purely defensive purposes, I don't think there is much difference other than the DLP will drop back a bit more than the CM(D). I would use a CM(D) if I didn't want to funnel play through a certain player, but otherwise I have not seen any real differences defensively.

[themightyyak]

When a player is played in a position other than their natural position, their position training says they are being trained in the position in which they are being played (i.e. not their natural position) but it also says "0%" allocated to this. What does this mean?

[Dr. Hook]

When a player is played in a position other than their natural position, their position training says they are being trained in the position in which they are being played (i.e. not their natural position) but it also says "0%" allocated to this. What does this mean?

You haven't allocated any training time to the new position; you have to manually set the player to train in the new position if you want him to learn it. Otherwise the game is just reflecting where he is playing for the match training.

[themightyyak]

You haven't allocated any training time to the new position; you have to manually set the player to train in the new position if you want him to learn it. Otherwise the game is just reflecting where he is playing for the match training.

Ok thanks. So basically it has no effect?

[fanir]

When players learn preferred moves as well as his individual training, will it slow down his development massively?

When retraining to new position, will it take PA points too, like half a star off?

[Dr. Hook]

Ok thanks. So basically it has no effect?

Right, since you might just be playing him there for a game or two because of injury/suspension, and you don't want to use any of his training time on it.

[Dr. Hook]

When players learn preferred moves as well as his individual training, will it slow down his development massively?

When retraining to new position, will it take PA points too, like half a star off?

For question 1, I don't know about massively, since the bulk of development occurs from playing competitive matches, but it will slow it down. Adding preferred moves eats into the individual training time he would otherwise spend on skills training. On #2, I am not sure anymore- it used to be that way, but I think it's been changed. I'll let someone else answer that for sure.

[smajliss]

What happens if you use "look for overlap" but your formation does not have fullbacks (for example 3-5-2) ? Thanks

[THOG]

What happens if you use "look for overlap" but your formation does not have fullbacks (for example 3-5-2) ? Thanks

Your wingers drop off, stay back and hold up the ball, looking for runners through the middle (or central players moving into the channels).

[fanir]

For question 1, I don't know about massively, since the bulk of development occurs from playing competitive matches, but it will slow it down. Adding preferred moves eats into the individual training time he would otherwise spend on skills training. On #2, I am not sure anymore- it used to be that way, but I think it's been changed. I'll let someone else answer that for sure.

Thanks for the reply Doc! Also, would it make sense to have my players still on PPM or new position training during pre-season?

[Dr. Hook]

Thanks for the reply Doc! Also, would it make sense to have my players still on PPM or new position training during pre-season?

Whichever you prefer, really. My preference is to do neither but attribute/role training, with high fitness training- I want them spending their time on getting their physical attributes moving in the right direction after the several week break. However, there is really no reason not to work them on things you want done. It all depends on your objectives. On the PPM, if they are still working on it from the previous season, I think you have to leave them to it, or you will start over from the beginning. There is no way I know of to "suspend" it just for a few week, though I wish there was (or I knew how to do it )

[fanir]

Whichever you prefer, really. My preference is to do neither but attribute/role training, with high fitness training- I want them spending their time on getting their physical attributes moving in the right direction after the several week break. However, there is really no reason not to work them on things you want done. It all depends on your objectives. On the PPM, if they are still working on it from the previous season, I think you have to leave them to it, or you will start over from the beginning. There is no way I know of to "suspend" it just for a few week, though I wish there was (or I knew how to do it )

Brilliant, cheers Doc!

Call me OCD but you've got a weird ] in your location tab!

[all4everdragon]

The problem around here is more like having 70% possession at half-time, winning by 2 goals, closing hard on the opponent, having 15-20 shots against 0-2 shots and during the 2nd half it's like my team starts loosing control of the match. Now, complacency could be an issue but I insist with my players to stay focus around every 10-12 minutes and I also have always a box with the opponent's formation which I do not see roles and / or duty changes. So is this a known issue or something to be improved in a near future or is there any kind of solution ?

It's not something that happens from time to time, it's every match. Tried a more lower tempo, be more disciplined, setting the team with more support duties and this keeps happening.

[Cleon]

If it happens every match its something you are doing wrong rather than it being a bug/issue like you think it is. Without any real tactical details from yourself no-one can help. It's better in its own thread too.

[fanir]

If it happens every match its something you are doing wrong rather than it being a bug/issue like you think it is. Without any real tactical details from yourself no-one can help. It's better in its own thread too.

Hi Cleon, I've been implementing your Ajax youth development methods and it's really intrigued me to produce my players better. Question, was the real reason for you to not work on match training at all (0%) due to the fact that you don't find a benefit for it because you're a top team in the league?

[all4everdragon]

If it happens every match its something you are doing wrong rather than it being a bug/issue like you think it is. Without any real tactical details from yourself no-one can help. It's better in its own thread too.

Thanks Cleon, since it's a minor issue I wasn't sure about opening a thread just for this but maybe more people is dealing with this and a thread might help.

[Cleon]

Hi Cleon, I've been implementing your Ajax youth development methods and it's really intrigued me to produce my players better. Question, was the real reason for you to not work on match training at all (0%) due to the fact that you don't find a benefit for it because you're a top team in the league?

No I don't use it regardless of level my team is playing. I don't need a little tactic boost and have faith in the tactic I use. When developing players I want every single bit of training to be spent on the players developing rather than wasting it.

[fanir]

The problem around here is more like having 70% possession at half-time, winning by 2 goals, closing hard on the opponent, having 15-20 shots against 0-2 shots and during the 2nd half it's like my team starts loosing control of the match. Now, complacency could be an issue but I insist with my players to stay focus around every 10-12 minutes and I also have always a box with the opponent's formation which I do not see roles and / or duty changes. So is this a known issue or something to be improved in a near future or is there any kind of solution ?

It's not something that happens from time to time, it's every match. Tried a more lower tempo, be more disciplined, setting the team with more support duties and this keeps happening.

I know this might not be much but I've read no team can keep up with high pressing for the full 90mins, not unless if you have 11 Ronaldos in the team! I'd suggest just going a lower mentality, defensive would usually iron games for me.

[fanir]

No I don't use it regardless of level my team is playing. I don't need a little tactic boost and have faith in the tactic I use. When developing players I want every single bit of training to be spent on the players developing rather than wasting it.

Cheers!

[all4everdragon]

I know this might not be much but I've read no team can keep up with high pressing for the full 90mins, not unless if you have 11 Ronaldos in the team! I'd suggest just going a lower mentality, defensive would usually iron games for me.

Thanks.

I use Control and also Counter and the same issue happens with Counter. Thread is open.

P.S. We are not pressing the full 90 minutes, if a team has a lot of possession like 65-70% then the high pressing is reduced to the little amount of time when the team does not have the ball. So, if during 45 minutes your team has the ball 70% it's 31,5 minutes, it means your team would be pressing just for 15 minutes.

[Dr. Hook]

Call me OCD but you've got a weird ] in your location tab!

It was put in there by a LLM mod (Taipan did it I think) in the old days (2004 or thereabouts) when it was used to identify LLaMa players. I've just left it, like an old battle-scar or something

[Marabak]

Do the various leagues have their own preferred tactics? For instance, in my last save as Dortmund in Germany, pretty much every team I lined up against played either 4141 or 4411 apart from Bayern who played a 4231(narrow), with little changing between formation within game. Now, on my Excelsior save in Holland, I pretty much play against 4231(wide), with lots of teams switching to a 433 (with 3 strikers, not wingers) at half time.

Now, this leads me to my next question. I play a very direct (route one) 442, with a TM/AF combo upfront, two W(A) and a DLP(D)/CM(D) combo in midfield. I exploit the wings, and play a high tempo, hoping to keep it tight at the back and hit the opponent quickly with a big ball up to either my wingers or TM. This has been pretty succcesful, leading me to 11th in my first season, despite being predicted 17th (I think) and a 40k a week wage budget. However, I struggle quite a bit when teams switch to the 433, often having 3 attackers man-marking my defence. Obviously the space is down the flanks then, which my tactic should already be utilising, but what else would you do to counter this?

[Jazz]

If a player has the PPM "comes deep to get ball" and "tries to beat offside-trap" will he then:

A) Come deep to get the ball, flick it on and then blast upwards again to beat the offside-trap or

B) Pick'n choose between them as he sees fit, sometimes coming deep and sometimes be looking to beat the offside-trap?

[Cam8]

would an AP(A) at AMC with 'roam from position' provide the same attacking movement as a trequartista?

[RTHerringbone]

would an AP(A) at AMC with 'roam from position' provide the same attacking movement as a trequartista?

Similar, yes, which prompts the question: Why not just use a Treq?

[RTHerringbone]

If a player has the PPM "comes deep to get ball" and "tries to beat offside-trap" will he then:

A) Come deep to get the ball, flick it on and then blast upwards again to beat the offside-trap or

B) Pick'n choose between them as he sees fit, sometimes coming deep and sometimes be looking to beat the offside-trap?

Mostly B. Comes Deep To Get Ball is more likely to be shown in build up play, whilst Tries To Beat Offside Trap will more often be used at the culmination of an attack.

[Jazz]

Mostly B. Comes Deep To Get Ball is more likely to be shown in build up play, whilst Tries To Beat Offside Trap will more often be used at the culmination of an attack.

Thanks for the answer RTH

[RTHerringbone]

Do the various leagues have their own preferred tactics? For instance, in my last save as Dortmund in Germany, pretty much every team I lined up against played either 4141 or 4411 apart from Bayern who played a 4231(narrow), with little changing between formation within game. Now, on my Excelsior save in Holland, I pretty much play against 4231(wide), with lots of teams switching to a 433 (with 3 strikers, not wingers) at half time.

Now, this leads me to my next question. I play a very direct (route one) 442, with a TM/AF combo upfront, two W(A) and a DLP(D)/CM(D) combo in midfield. I exploit the wings, and play a high tempo, hoping to keep it tight at the back and hit the opponent quickly with a big ball up to either my wingers or TM. This has been pretty succcesful, leading me to 11th in my first season, despite being predicted 17th (I think) and a 40k a week wage budget. However, I struggle quite a bit when teams switch to the 433, often having 3 attackers man-marking my defence. Obviously the space is down the flanks then, which my tactic should already be utilising, but what else would you do to counter this?

The leagues themselves mightn't have defined tactical preferences at the start - the tactical preferences of teams are set by the researchers. However, when "real" managers disappear as the game progresses, I believe the tactical tendencies of the league are shaped by the tactical tendency set in the database for that nation.

Regarding your tactical question, I'd consider losing the Target Man if you want to exclusively focus on making the use of the space behind the AI AML/R. At the moment, you'll be experiencing a mix of distribution both towards the TM and the Wingers. Lose the attraction of the Target Man, and you'll see a much higher proportion of passes player out wide.

[Cleon]

The leagues themselves mightn't have defined tactical preferences at the start - the tactical preferences of teams are set by the researchers. However, when "real" managers disappear as the game progresses, I believe the tactical tendencies of the league are shaped by the tactical tendency set in the database for that nation.

Regarding your tactical question, I'd consider losing the Target Man if you want to exclusively focus on making the use of the space behind the AI AML/R. At the moment, you'll be experiencing a mix of distribution both towards the TM and the Wingers. Lose the attraction of the Target Man, and you'll see a much higher proportion of passes player out wide.

It's also possible for teams to follow tactical trends just like real life over time. So if one team starts to overachieve for a while then you might find teams across the world using similar shapes.

[Dr. Hook]

It's also possible for teams to follow tactical trends just like real life over time. So if one team starts to overachieve for a while then you might find teams across the world using similar shapes.

Yes and it's friggin' annoying when it happens to be a formation that gives me problems

[Marabak]

Cheers guys. I might try dropping the TM to a DLF anyway, as I find he stays too high up the pitch alongside the AF when I don't have the ball. Would this change impact on the distribution to the wingers also?

[Dr. Hook]

Cheers guys. I might try dropping the TM to a DLF anyway, as I find he stays too high up the pitch alongside the AF when I don't have the ball. Would this change impact on the distribution to the wingers also?

When using a target man, players will look to get it to him as a first option, so yes, it will change the way your distribution looks. Unless I've misunderstood what you are asking?

[RTHerringbone]

Cheers guys. I might try dropping the TM to a DLF anyway, as I find he stays too high up the pitch alongside the AF when I don't have the ball. Would this change impact on the distribution to the wingers also?

Yes. With a TM in situ, and with the shouts you use, you were instructing the team to look to the TM or to the flanks - the decision making of the ball carrier and the state of play on the pitch will have affected which option they took. By removing the TM element, you will see more of a bias just to the flanks - though it won't be 100% hit out wide as again the context of the move is important. If both wingers are marked, the ball is likely to be recycled in field.

[martywigham]

Just as a quick thought experiment, how viable is it to have a tactic that has basically no instructions and just left pretty generic? For example;

Flexible

Standard

GK-D

FB-S

CD-D

CD-D

FB-S

WM-A

CM-D

CM-S

WM-A

DLF-S

AF-A

No Team or Player Instructions.

[THOG]

You don't need to use TIs or PIs. The generic settings will just produce a balanced style of play.

[Cam8]

Similar, yes, which prompts the question: Why not just use a Treq?

I want a sort of player who behaves as a treq when we have possession (move laterally, drop deep etc) but will press and track back defensively (like an AP does). So i'm trying to find a way of achieving both if that's possible

[Marabak]

When using a target man, players will look to get it to him as a first option, so yes, it will change the way your distribution looks. Unless I've misunderstood what you are asking?

Yes. With a TM in situ, and with the shouts you use, you were instructing the team to look to the TM or to the flanks - the decision making of the ball carrier and the state of play on the pitch will have affected which option they took. By removing the TM element, you will see more of a bias just to the flanks - though it won't be 100% hit out wide as again the context of the move is important. If both wingers are marked, the ball is likely to be recycled in field.

In general play, I am happy with a long ball up to either the TM or to the wingers, letting my players decide which is the best option. Against a 433Narrow though, the centre of the pitch is a little congested, whereas my wingers are more likely to have some space, so it actually sounds like a good idea to change the TM role to something that is less of a long ball target, making my players look to my wide players a little more. Which is leading me to an interesting thought, literally as I type this, of trying out a Wide Target Man... I've never used one of those in a tactic before

[martywigham]

If you wanted to try and replicate the PPM 'Comes deep to get ball' with a PI would it be better to use 'Hold position' or 'Roams from position'?

[THOG]

If you wanted to try and replicate the PPM 'Comes deep to get ball' with a PI would it be better to use 'Hold position' or 'Roams from position'?

It depends on what you want from the player. I'd use roam if you're relying on the player to provide movement and get into good attacking positions as well. I'd use hold position if you just want someone staying back to link up play and perhaps dribble at defenders.

[Dr. Hook]

In general play, I am happy with a long ball up to either the TM or to the wingers, letting my players decide which is the best option. Against a 433Narrow though, the centre of the pitch is a little congested, whereas my wingers are more likely to have some space, so it actually sounds like a good idea to change the TM role to something that is less of a long ball target, making my players look to my wide players a little more. Which is leading me to an interesting thought, literally as I type this, of trying out a Wide Target Man... I've never used one of those in a tactic before

Keep in mind that play will funnel towards that player, so if you want that, it might be good. I think against the narrow 4-4-3, changing your forward duty from TM and then using an exploit the flanks should do what you want which is to focus play down the wings. With the Wide Target man, you will probably see it going predominately down one side, which could be great, or it could go horribly wrong if he is well-marked or outmatched by a strong fullback. May as well try it and see what happens, and if it starts to suck, you can always change the role

[Marabak]

Cool, that sounds good. I have a handful of games left in my current season, and I am safely out of the relegation mire without any real chance of breaking into Europe, I might experiment with a Wide Target Man a little.

[LooseG27]

Hi All,

I am currently playing football manager 2014

I frequently send my young players out on loan to aid their development, when doing so I always ensure the 'Can be recalled' clause is in place.

However when I need to recall a player, as I need him due to injuries or as he is not being used by his loan club I cannot find the option to recall him from his loan spell though the

clause is clearly in place within the contract details.

Please can someone assist in pointing out where the recall from loan option is?

Currently the only opportunity I get to recall a player is when a coach suggests it in a news story or when the player obtains a bad injury at his loan club, again as an option through a

news story.

Appreciate the assistance!

Best Regards,

[Farina]

2 things that never have been fully clear to me: 1. does passing to the flanks or to the centre mean you're playing to the flank/centre area or the flanke/centre players? And is the width of your team relative to the width of the pitch, or does it stay the same regardless of the pitch?

[vasilli07]

Can only recall a player when the transfer window is open.

[Masi`]

Might be a dumb question but how do you know if your tactic is crap, esp as playing as a weaker team?

Im trying to get Parma back up the league, but i have never been good at making my own tactics and understand whats causing what. But, being a weaker team i expect to lose, but say we loose 1-0 but had more possesion, more shots and passing accur was over 80% is that a case that tactic worked, just the players are not good enough?

[Dr. Hook]

Might be a dumb question but how do you know if your tactic is crap, esp as playing as a weaker team?

Im trying to get Parma back up the league, but i have never been good at making my own tactics and understand whats causing what. But, being a weaker team i expect to lose, but say we loose 1-0 but had more possesion, more shots and passing accur was over 80% is that a case that tactic worked, just the players are not good enough?

You know it's crap if you can't win games Seriously, though, you can have a great tactic but players that aren't good enough for the level you are playing in. In that case, improving the squad is what you need to do. However, even with a weak squad, a really sound tactic and the ability to adapt in game will see you win more than you expect. So, what I would advise, because we can't know from what you little you posted there, is to start a thread with the basic information required from the sticky at the top of the forum, and I predict it won't be long till we know whether it is your tactic or your players

[Masi`]

Yea it was just a general question, i go in and out of playing FM as i just get frustrated with game. I reading a few posts atm trying to work out for myself but if it continues to suck i will put a post up. Dream of getting a 532/352 or 4231 Wide working one day ;p

[Masi`]

One thing that gets on my ****ing nerves is playing as favourite vs teams that play slow short passes, even if there crap i cant beat them and i really dont understand.. I cant work out what is wrong because every highlight is of them taking a throw in and i have to wait 2 minutes watching them pass it through my players and score from 2 yards out.

Playing as Parma either 451 or 4141 and its the same result, winds me up to the point i dont want to play.

352 or 4231 Wide i just can not compete with, im totally outclassed, even by say grey teams in pre season, if they play those 2 formations and slow short, im just passed around while my team looks like lemons.

My formations

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/LogieUK/Tactics_%20Overview%20Overview_zpsxdutycsd.png

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/LogieUK/Tactics_%20Overview%20Overview-2_zpsmq6dttor.png

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/LogieUK/Tactics_%20Overview%20Overview-3_zpskgen100i.png

4 game results with stats

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/LogieUK/Parma%20v%20Napoli_%20Overview%20Overview_zpsu9jeo0rz.png

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/LogieUK/Sampdoria%20v%20Parma_%20Overview%20Overview_zps3xrglhkp.png

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/LogieUK/Cagliari%20v%20Parma_%20Overview%20Overview_zpsrsevqdtx.png

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y288/LogieUK/Torino%20v%20Parma_%20Overview%20Overview_zpsr8ldhiob.png

352 i want to play, but when i play that i make 2 chances a game and i just get passed around. Had a decent start using 4141 or 451, but i clearly make a mistake vs slow short passing teams who i am favourite aganist

[Sussex Hammer]

In a 4132 like mine below which BBM would you all add "get further forward" to?

_______________DF S_______CF A______________

__________BBM S_____CM A_______BBM S_______

____________________AM D___________________

WB A________CD D___________CD D________WB A

____________________GK D___________________

Reason I ask is that I have always had it on the right sided BBM thinking that logically he would support further forward behind the more advanced striker (CF A). However I recently changed it and seem to have more joy with the left sided BBM getting forward behind the DF S. Maybe it is better link up play that is the reason but just wondered how you guys would play it in the same formation?

[Masi`]

This might be a daft question, but what reason would your players not go up the pitch when you have the ball? I find when i want to play a short passing game or keep possesion, my players lack options or my DM and 2MCs are on each other