Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Belkemi1]

Can shadow striker combined with a poacher work? The main rule seems to be to use a shadow striker with a deep lying forward. But aren't they attacking the same spaces then? My idea is for the poacher to stay as close to the goal as possible, which leaves space behind for the shadow striker to attack. Does this make sense?

[LHurlz]

6 hours ago, Belkemi1 said:

Can shadow striker combined with a poacher work? The main rule seems to be to use a shadow striker with a deep lying forward. But aren't they attacking the same spaces then? My idea is for the poacher to stay as close to the goal as possible, which leaves space behind for the shadow striker to attack. Does this make sense?

Could certainly work. Poacher staying central occupying the back line and giving the SS the opportunity to find space and get 1v1s.

[phnompenhandy]

7 hours ago, Belkemi1 said:

Can shadow striker combined with a poacher work? The main rule seems to be to use a shadow striker with a deep lying forward. But aren't they attacking the same spaces then? My idea is for the poacher to stay as close to the goal as possible, which leaves space behind for the shadow striker to attack. Does this make sense?

I had great success with a shadow striker behind an attacking forward and a pressing forward.

[sgevolker]

Hi Guys,

what is more important for Mentoring? Personality or the same Position?  If I would like to improve the personality from a player, does the Position of the Mentor then is relevant? 

[Kcinnay]

Hi y'all

Since mentality defines risk, does it work as well like that in the defensive phase? If I want my team to defend ultra-agressive, would a 'very attacking' mentality serve my players (who have high scores in aggression, courage, stamina, teamwork and natural fitness) the best? Or would a lower mentality be better for the high octane, direct tactic I want to create, since 'very attacking' + 'minimum width' ends up in a still immensively 'wider' set-up defensively in a high mentality than in a (very) low mentality. But then, the ball-circulation is slower, which isn't what I really want.

So: what does mentality do defensively, coupled with players described above, in a high pressing game, hard tackling, more urgent pressing? I want us to be a very intense team, preferably in a 4-2-2-2 narrow or a 3-4-2-1 (wingbacks, pivots in DM, pocket players in AM halfspace position, striker in CF position).

[mikcheck]

Do you guys sign players with low determination attribute? Or is it a red flag for you?

[Hovis Dexter]

3 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

Do you guys sign players with low determination attribute? Or is it a red flag for you?

Absolute red flag … who wants to sign somebody who gives up at the slightest difficulty?

[CARRERA]

8 hours ago, Kcinnay said:

Hi y'all

Since mentality defines risk, does it work as well like that in the defensive phase? If I want my team to defend ultra-agressive, would a 'very attacking' mentality serve my players (who have high scores in aggression, courage, stamina, teamwork and natural fitness) the best? Or would a lower mentality be better for the high octane, direct tactic I want to create, since 'very attacking' + 'minimum width' ends up in a still immensively 'wider' set-up defensively in a high mentality than in a (very) low mentality. But then, the ball-circulation is slower, which isn't what I really want.

So: what does mentality do defensively, coupled with players described above, in a high pressing game, hard tackling, more urgent pressing? I want us to be a very intense team, preferably in a 4-2-2-2 narrow or a 3-4-2-1 (wingbacks, pivots in DM, pocket players in AM halfspace position, striker in CF position).

Mentality in a nutshell

High Mentality = Progressive build-up and aggressive defending.

Low Mentality = Slow build-up and protecting space 

However, you can adjust either way to your likings by distributing duties in a certain way and altering the team instructions

[Kcinnay]

20 hours ago, CARRERA said:

Mentality in a nutshell

High Mentality = Progressive build-up and aggressive defending.

Low Mentality = Slow build-up and protecting space 

However, you can adjust either way to your likings by distributing duties in a certain way and altering the team instructions

That's very clear! Thanks!

[Cloud9]

How much PA does retraining a player to a new position actually take up? 

[herne79]

8 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

How much PA does retraining a player to a new position actually take up? 

Nowhere near enough to worry about.

[tropicsafc]

I have an under-18 player that I'm training to a slightly different position. Do I have to manually move that player to the correct position for every under-18 game or can I get the manager to remember that somehow?

[b2khn]

8 hours ago, tropicsafc said:

I have an under-18 player that I'm training to a slightly different position. Do I have to manually move that player to the correct position for every under-18 game or can I get the manager to remember that somehow?

No, you don't. They will play in the position their manager will set for them. You can change their training position and wait until the under19 manager understands it.

[Cloud9]

How do you decide the attacking width in your tactic?

[Cloud9]

Do the personality of my staff influence the personality of players in my senior squad?

[Cloud9]

Are defensive attributes that are unhighlighted on attacking player roles (tackling and aggression) wasted CA if I'm not specifically telling the player to press/dive into tackles? 

For example: if I toggle a mezzala (s) to (a) is his tackling ability negated and a total loss in the new role?

Edited January 18, 2023 by Cloud9
Example given.

[rsihn]

On 02/01/2023 at 20:15, phnompenhandy said:

I've started a new save and all my players are very one-footed. They're all 16 years old, and the training facilities are minimal. Should I train some to use their weaker foot, or does that take too much away from their general and individual training? How long does it take and how much improvement can I expect to see anyway?

 

Thanks

Weak foot training is the only PPM/trait that eats up CA.  It has one of the most expensive weightings of any stat for almost all positions but is particularly expensive for forwards and attacking midfielders.  So you have to make the decision as to whether those costs are going to be worth it for a player.  If a player starts out with only a 1 out of 20 rating for his weak foot, it might not be the best idea but if the player already has a 7 out of 20 rating then it is probably worth it to max the stat out (9 out of 20 for improving weak foot).  I very much value two-footedness in all my players and you can clearly see the effects in the match engine as to what happens when a player is particularly bad with his weak foot but it is undeniably expensive and IMO, it needs to be done when the player is fairly young as it can ruin a player who has already peaked or plateaued in their mid-20s.  If done while they are young, their natural development will outpace whatever losses the player would see from it and you likely won't even notice. 

 

Link below has a chart with all the stat weightings, including weak foot, by position. 

 

https://www.fmscout.com/a-guide-to-current-ability-in-football-manager.html

[rsihn]

On 14/01/2023 at 10:09, sgevolker said:

Hi Guys,

what is more important for Mentoring? Personality or the same Position?  If I would like to improve the personality from a player, does the Position of the Mentor then is relevant? 

Training unit.  A mentor will be more likely to influence a young player if they are in the same training unit (defending, attacking, or GK) as they will spend nearly all their training time together. 

[rsihn]

On 17/01/2023 at 01:52, Cloud9 said:

How much PA does retraining a player to a new position actually take up? 

It does not directly take up PA but rather it applies the stat weightings of the new position to the players existing stats. If these weightings cause the RCA (recommended current ability) to be too far above his actual current ability, the game will "rebalance" the players overall stats to bring it back in line with where it is supposed to be.  

SI have weighted the values of each stat in the game based on their importance for that position so crossing is weighed very heavily for wide positions but it is much cheaper for a center mid as they have limited use for crossing the ball.  Same goes for finishing which is very expensive for a forward but nearly free for a CB because they have very little use for it. 

So the overall answer to your question doesn't have a simple answer as it will depend on which position you are retraining the player in and how their current stats will apply to those new weightings. 

 

 

[phnompenhandy]

1 hour ago, rsihn said:

Weak foot training is the only PPM/trait that eats up CA.  It has one of the most expensive weightings of any stat for almost all positions but is particularly expensive for forwards and attacking midfielders.  So you have to make the decision as to whether those costs are going to be worth it for a player.  If a player starts out with only a 1 out of 20 rating for his weak foot, it might not be the best idea but if the player already has a 7 out of 20 rating then it is probably worth it to max the stat out (9 out of 20 for improving weak foot).  I very much value two-footedness in all my players and you can clearly see the effects in the match engine as to what happens when a player is particularly bad with his weak foot but it is undeniably expensive and IMO, it needs to be done when the player is fairly young as it can ruin a player who has already peaked or plateaued in their mid-20s.  If done while they are young, their natural development will outpace whatever losses the player would see from it and you likely won't even notice. 

 

Link below has a chart with all the stat weightings, including weak foot, by position. 

 

https://www.fmscout.com/a-guide-to-current-ability-in-football-manager.html

Great explanation, thanks.

[DimitrisLar]

is fm23 having the same problem with fm22 where wide playmakers/ inverted wingers/ inside forwards dont tuck in properly while in build up?

[herne79]

On 18/01/2023 at 23:12, rsihn said:

Weak foot training is the only PPM/trait that eats up CA.  It has one of the most expensive weightings of any stat for almost all positions but is particularly expensive for forwards and attacking midfielders.  So you have to make the decision as to whether those costs are going to be worth it for a player.  If a player starts out with only a 1 out of 20 rating for his weak foot, it might not be the best idea but if the player already has a 7 out of 20 rating then it is probably worth it to max the stat out (9 out of 20 for improving weak foot).  I very much value two-footedness in all my players and you can clearly see the effects in the match engine as to what happens when a player is particularly bad with his weak foot but it is undeniably expensive and IMO, it needs to be done when the player is fairly young as it can ruin a player who has already peaked or plateaued in their mid-20s.  If done while they are young, their natural development will outpace whatever losses the player would see from it and you likely won't even notice. 

 

Link below has a chart with all the stat weightings, including weak foot, by position. 

 

https://www.fmscout.com/a-guide-to-current-ability-in-football-manager.html

 

On 19/01/2023 at 00:54, phnompenhandy said:

Great explanation, thanks.

That’s not how it works.

In game, a player cannot develop their weaker foot beyond average (10) unless their starting point is already beyond that.  Thus only players who have been set as such in the current database by a researcher or newgens who are “born” with it can hope to develop their weaker foot to any great extent.

Because of that, “eating up CA” isn’t actually as egregious as people think.  Going from 1-20 would indeed take up a lot of CA, but the weak foot can’t develop like that in game.

btw learning the Trait doesn’t develop the weaker foot, thus it doesn’t impact CA directly.  It merely gives the player the ability to develop their weaker foot only once the Trait learning has successfully completed.

[phnompenhandy]

9 minutes ago, herne79 said:

 

That’s not how it works.

In game, a player cannot develop their weaker foot beyond average (10) unless their starting point is already beyond that.  Thus only players who have been set as such in the current database by a researcher or newgens who are “born” with it can hope to develop their weaker foot to any great extent.

Because of that, “eating up CA” isn’t actually as egregious as people think.  Going from 1-20 would indeed take up a lot of CA, but the weak foot can’t develop like that in game.

btw learning the Trait doesn’t develop the weaker foot, thus it doesn’t impact CA directly.  It merely gives the player the ability to develop their weaker foot only once the Trait learning has successfully completed.

Thanks - I'm still not 100% clear as to my basic question: is there any point is following my coaches' constant advice to train very low-ability/low-potential youngsters to develop their weaker foot? Or would their very limited capacity be better utilised in training other skills?

[herne79]

2 hours ago, phnompenhandy said:

Thanks - I'm still not 100% clear as to my basic question: is there any point is following my coaches' constant advice to train very low-ability/low-potential youngsters to develop their weaker foot? Or would their very limited capacity be better utilised in training other skills?

I wouldn’t bother.  Not because of some CA issue but realistically who at a low league level plays with 2 feet?

As an aside, I’ve never bothered about developing a player’s weaker foot anyway, regardless of playing level.  Messi seems quite happy with just one foot so if it’s good enough for him…

[phnompenhandy]

46 minutes ago, herne79 said:

I wouldn’t bother.  Not because of some CA issue but realistically who at a low league level plays with 2 feet?

As an aside, I’ve never bothered about developing a player’s weaker foot anyway, regardless of playing level.  Messi seems quite happy with just one foot so if it’s good enough for him…

That was my instinctive feeling. Thanks for the confirmation.

[KRM Analysis]

Hi everyone. First post here!

I'm sure these questions have been answered before, so apologies, but I just wanted some clarification on training. I haven't really dabbled much with it prior to my current save, so I'm definitely a novice.

1. I'm in December now, and the players haven't had a single day off, but I've not had any unhappiness/complaints - does this ever become an issue? 

2. I'm a little unclear on how the Training Rating is measure. Is this purely linked to attribute development? I have a 28 year-old midfielder who is not achieving high training scores (not low enough to be a cause for concern) and is just ticking along. He has good mental attributes and 'Resolute' personality type, so I'd imagine his lower rating isn't a case of a lack of effort/professionalism in training. Can anyone clarify how the Training Rating is calculated?

 

[phnompenhandy]

2 minutes ago, KRM Analysis said:

Hi everyone. First post here!

I'm sure these questions have been answered before, so apologies, but I just wanted some clarification on training. I haven't really dabbled much with it prior to my current save, so I'm definitely a novice.

1. I'm in December now, and the players haven't had a single day off, but I've not had any unhappiness/complaints - does this ever become an issue? 

2. I'm a little unclear on how the Training Rating is measure. Is this purely linked to attribute development? I have a 28 year-old midfielder who is not achieving high training scores (not low enough to be a cause for concern) and is just ticking along. He has good mental attributes and 'Resolute' personality type, so I'd imagine his lower rating isn't a case of a lack of effort/professionalism in training. Can anyone clarify how the Training Rating is calculated?

 

1. It can do - players can become jaded and performances decline in the Spring. However, if your regular training isn't too intensive, it probably won't be a problem.

2. Players tend to peak at that age - in fact, they often stop significantly developing after about 25. 'Ticking along' should be just fine for him.

[KRM Analysis]

 

15 minutes ago, phnompenhandy said:

1. It can do - players can become jaded and performances decline in the Spring. However, if your regular training isn't too intensive, it probably won't be a problem.

2. Players tend to peak at that age - in fact, they often stop significantly developing after about 25. 'Ticking along' should be just fine for him.

Appreciate the response, mate.

1. I was more concerned that no days off would create a morale issue. I've tried to moderate the intensity and prioritise things like injury prevention as I don't have great squad depth, and I've not had any issues yet - but I've not reached spring!

2. Yeah this makes sense.

Thanks again

[axelmuller]

According to Lines and Diamonds, Shorter Passing reduces both width and tempo one notch. Is it still the case, because in preset tactics you can see, for example, Much Shorter Passing combined with slower tempo and narrower width?

If yes, does Much Shorter Passing reduce width and tempo even further?

[CARRERA]

5 hours ago, axelmuller said:

According to Lines and Diamonds, Shorter Passing reduces both width and tempo one notch. Is it still the case, because in preset tactics you can see, for example, Much Shorter Passing combined with slower tempo and narrower width?

If yes, does Much Shorter Passing reduce width and tempo even further?

No, you can still see the tempo change to some extend by shortening your passing directness. However it has no impact on your treats width. 

[Lucas_26_7]

When you see in the pre-game screen notable reactions to your teamsheet, is there a way to see what they're actually upset by?

For example in my spurs save - for my upcoming trip to Old Trafford I have switched systesms and gone a 4-4-2. 

It says Dejan Kulusevski is troubled, Marcus Edwards is upset. They make sense cause they're on the bench. But I've got, Destiny Udogie - troubled (doesn't make much sense, he's starting in favoured position), Jude Bellingham - troubled (again starting in favoured position), Valentin Gomez - hurt (is injured so isn't even in the squad), Troy Parrott - hurt (weirdest one, giving him his first PL start after a hat-trick in the Europa). Am I able to see what they're annoyed about? Or am I meant to just guess somehow?

[mikcheck]

Hi, two questions:

1- Do you ever had a player with "possesses long flat throw? If so, do you still choose the long throw option or that trait will make him always do it, regardless of what throw you choose?

2 - In a counter attacking tactic, isn't a bit  counter-intuitive to go for a narrower attacking width? With thay playing style you certainly want to get the most of your fastest and best dribblers players across the whole pitch?

Edited January 29, 2023 by mikcheck

[CARRERA]

37 minutes ago, mikcheck said:

2 - In a counter attacking tactic, isn't a bit  counter-intuitive to go for a narrower attacking width? With thay playing style you certainly want to get the most of your fastest and best dribblers players across the whole pitch?

Playing through the middle is the fastest way to a goal, so i think playing thorugh the middle perfectly fits a counter attacking system. Playing through the middle doesnt mean you cant utilize your wide players.

[Johnny Ace]

13 hours ago, mikcheck said:

Hi, two questions:

1- Do you ever had a player with "possesses long flat throw? If so, do you still choose the long throw option or that trait will make him always do it, regardless of what throw you choose?

Easy one to try out 

13 hours ago, mikcheck said:

2 - In a counter attacking tactic, isn't a bit  counter-intuitive to go for a narrower attacking width? With thay playing style you certainly want to get the most of your fastest and best dribblers players across the whole pitch?

I don't think it matters too much, if you attack with a narrower width, when the ball gets turned over, your team will be closer together to win the ball back quicker to initiate the counter. When the counter kicks in, TIs and Pis are temporarily overridden, Pros and Cons to every TI 

[Cloud9]

8 hours ago, Johnny Ace said:

Easy one to try out 

I don't think it matters too much, if you attack with a narrower width, when the ball gets turned over, your team will be closer together to win the ball back quicker to initiate the counter. When the counter kicks in, TIs and Pis are temporarily overridden, Pros and Cons to every TI 

I agree but I also think this is dependent on your actual players attributes. If you have really quick players then trying to counter narrow will hold them back. If you have really technical players then trying to counter wide, isn't necessarily beneficial to you.

[bahmet]

In what cases is it better to use this instruction?  I don't notice the difference.

[Cloud9]

21 minutes ago, bahmet said:

In what cases is it better to use this instruction?  I don't notice the difference.

Creative Freedom is like a flair modifier in the game I believe and additionally makes players move out of position more/less often.

I wouldn't use either one at all personally, for me telling players to be more or less creative on an individualized basis has more effect. I could see "Be more Disciplined" working in a shut up shop operation at the end of the match, but I find negating your own attacking threats invites too much pressure usually. 

[bahmet]

When do you use this instruction?

I want to play counterattack, but for this I need to lure more opponent players to my half.

[Johnny Ace]

7 hours ago, bahmet said:

When do you use this instruction?

I want to play counterattack, but for this I need to lure more opponent players to my half.

Sure I guess, the instructions are there to use, if you're confident in your backline and goalkeeper give it a try. If it's too nerve wracking, move it up a notch until you find the sweet spot   

[Cloud9]

15 hours ago, bahmet said:

When do you use this instruction?

I want to play counterattack, but for this I need to lure more opponent players to my half.

This is only based on my experience playing counter attack but I'd recommend having it set at the medium at least, and leaving off "counter press."

Triggering the press is an opportunity to win the ball back (where the opponent has made a poor first touch for example) which is super for counter attacks. Having it too low means you can find yourself in a situation where you're sitting back all the time/not putting enough pressure on the opposition. It shouldn't open you up too much defensively like the "counter press" can. If you set a low/medium line of engagement you'll already be inviting them to come into your half.

I've found ramping up "trigger press" and then turning on "counter press" at the end of the half can be really effective. You're soaking up pressure while the opponent tires all match.

[Lambielsa]

Hi all. I was looking for some advice. I’m trying to get a tactic using raumdeter as the main goal scorer. Main idea is to overload the left hand side drawing the opposition that side and pinging the ball to the ram on the right. Currently not working amazingly, raumdeter is getting space but having trouble getting ball to him. Any suggestions? Thanks

[Johnny Ace]

1 hour ago, Lambielsa said:

Hi all. I was looking for some advice. I’m trying to get a tactic using raumdeter as the main goal scorer. Main idea is to overload the left hand side drawing the opposition that side and pinging the ball to the ram on the right. Currently not working amazingly, raumdeter is getting space but having trouble getting ball to him. Any suggestions? Thanks

I definitely wouldn't use an IWB(A) on the flank of the Raumdeuter, you want a role to overlap him rather than cut in and flood his space 

Playmaker in the centre probably isn't needed either, I like the use of the Mez over on the left hand side of centre midfield, that's on the right tracks 

[Lambielsa]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

I definitely wouldn't use an IWB(A) on the flank of the Raumdeuter, you want a role to overlap him rather than cut in and flood his space 

Playmaker in the centre probably isn't needed either, I like the use of the Mez over on the left hand side of centre midfield, that's on the right tracks 

Thanks for response. Not using IWB(a) definitely makes sense. I was hoping he would provide another runner from deep but they have been stepping on each others toes in the box a bit. 
 

Can I ask why the AP(s) is unnecessary? My thinking was he would kind of connect the left and right sides of the pitch and be enabled to attempt the riskier passes to MEZ(a) and RAM 

[Johnny Ace]

9 hours ago, Lambielsa said:

Thanks for response. Not using IWB(a) definitely makes sense. I was hoping he would provide another runner from deep but they have been stepping on each others toes in the box a bit. 

 

9 hours ago, Lambielsa said:

Can I ask why the AP(s) is unnecessary? My thinking was he would kind of connect the left and right sides of the pitch and be enabled to attempt the riskier passes to MEZ(a) and RAM 

Because he'll be a focus of play. Ideally, you'd want to overload the left hand side of the pitch, the Mez will help with that but you can use the Team Instruction to focus down the left flank so a playmaker in the centre isn't really needed 

There's a load of threads on here over the years about the Raumdeuter, here's one I did a while ago, regrettably, I didn't post the tactic but I've made a few successful RMD tactics since  

 

[Lambielsa]

1 hour ago, Johnny Ace said:

 

Because he'll be a focus of play. Ideally, you'd want to overload the left hand side of the pitch, the Mez will help with that but you can use the Team Instruction to focus down the left flank so a playmaker in the centre isn't really needed 

There's a load of threads on here over the years about the Raumdeuter, here's one I did a while ago, regrettably, I didn't post the tactic but I've made a few successful RMD tactics since  

 

Great. Thanks again for taking the time!

[mikcheck]

A player like a BBM, do you put him in defensivo or attacking unit?

[Cloud9]

On 07/02/2023 at 03:21, mikcheck said:

A player like a BBM, do you put him in defensivo or attacking unit?

Depends if you want to improve his defensive or attacking attributes.

The BBM is the central midfield equivalent of a "complete" role with "roam position" in his PIs, meaning he gets to do whatever he wants.

You can further specialize his training by giving him individualized training for a different midfield role other than BBM (example. if you want him to be more defensively sound, put him down for BWM training).

Edited February 9, 2023 by Cloud9

[ElJefe4]

When using swap positions for 2 strikers, do they assume the role/duty of the player they're swapping with?

For example, I've just started a save as Milan, I've got a front 2 of Leao on the left as an Advanced Forward and Charles de Ketelaere as a Deep Lying Forward on Support. If I tell them to swap positions, does Leao play as a DLF when they swap? Or does he still play as an Advanced Forward but just do it from the right hand side?

[Cloud9]

Are there any in depth guides for getting the most out of the data hub? 

I've been mostly using the pass map to see who to target in the opposition instructions, but have a hard time telling how to make team/tactical changes based on a lot of the data provided. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Cloud9

[phnompenhandy]

12 minutes ago, Cloud9 said:

Are there any in depth guides for getting the most out of the data hub? 

I've been mostly using the pass map to see who to target in the opposition instructions, but have a hard time telling how to make team/tactical changes based on a lot of the data provided. 

"Cleon" is the standard answer. He has these 2 posts in this very forum:

https://www.viewfromthetouchline.com/2022/12/31/fm23-data-and-analysis-to-enhance-team-tactics-and-formations/

https://www.viewfromthetouchline.com/2023/01/10/fm23-match-analysis/