Quickfire Questions and Answers Thread (Tactic and Training Questions Only)

[Bunkerossian]

What would be the use for separating the lines with Structured or Very Structured? These 2 mentalities are restrictive on creativity, but what  is their secondary effect used for?

[Craigus89]

Not sure exactly what you are asking, but Team Shape effects both creativity and depth.

Very Structured is the one extreme where creativity is very limited, players will rely on their assigned roles and act acording to those, but it also see's the players spread out more up-and-down the pitch (depth) but not horizontally. This is linked to creativity because your Strikers are responsible for attack and will track back much less as they are generally further up the pitch, defenders are responsible for defending and will very rarely get involved in supporting the attack, and all strata's in between are spread out accordingly i.e DM's more defensive oriented, AM's more attack oriented, MC's somewhere in the middle.

Very Fluid is the other extreme where every player is very free to be as creative as they feel applicable; it will also have all the players play very compact up-and-down the pitch, again not horizontally. This is linked to creativity because defenders will naturally be closer to the attacking players and will help out with attacks, fullbacks will get down the flanks, defenders will help keep possession etc; strikers and attacking midfielders will attack and also be more inclined to track back and help out defensively.

It seemed odd to me at first that it would effect both creativity and depth, but when you think about it those things are definitely linked.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Craigus89
Re-structured

[Dr. Hook]

46 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

What would be the use for separating the lines with Structured or Very Structured? These 2 mentalities are restrictive on creativity, but what  is their secondary effect used for?

It is tied to player mentality, which incidentally, creates the vertical compactness that Craig was talking about above. It isn't creativity that causes this, though. Structured and Very Structured systems create a wider mentality spread between the stratas of play. Your defenders have lower mentalities and your attackers have higher than in fluid systems. This creates the separation as defenders don' get as further forward and attackers don't drop as deep. The use is for creating a clear separation in player jobs on the pitch. You want your defenders defending, your attackers attacking. With fluid you get more blurred lines between attack and defense. Does this make sense? So uses for structured could be a rigid type system where you want more separation for specific passing styles, perhaps you are weaker defensively and so want your defenders to play more conservatively, maybe your players are not strong two way players and are best suited to specific jobs on the pitch (attack or defend). There are a number of possibilities for using structured systems.

[Conflictinbanno]

18 hours ago, Dr. Hook said:

It is tied to player mentality, which incidentally, creates the vertical compactness that Craig was talking about above. It isn't creativity that causes this, though. Structured and Very Structured systems create a wider mentality spread between the stratas of play. Your defenders have lower mentalities and your attackers have higher than in fluid systems. This creates the separation as defenders don' get as further forward and attackers don't drop as deep. The use is for creating a clear separation in player jobs on the pitch. You want your defenders defending, your attackers attacking. With fluid you get more blurred lines between attack and defense. Does this make sense? So uses for structured could be a rigid type system where you want more separation for specific passing styles, perhaps you are weaker defensively and so want your defenders to play more conservatively, maybe your players are not strong two way players and are best suited to specific jobs on the pitch (attack or defend). There are a number of possibilities for using structured systems.

Hi Dr Hook,

 

Just to add another question from this. Whenever I think about tactics, I think I'm much more of a Structured manager, I like my CB's to stay back, my full backs to be more cautious, a DM to really be more thinking about his defensive duty and then my strikers to be more thinking of scoring and midfielders creating etc. 

However, due to thinking of wanting structured but having a team who suit 442 much more than another formation, I worry the options of Structured/Very Structured is going to cause bigger gaps between defence and midfield and midfield and attack, so to counter that possible separation without losing the structured style I really want, would you recommend either of these to try to improve matters? 

 

Retain Possesion/Shorter Passing - thinking because it should pull the players closer together to try to lose some of the separation

Higher defensive line - not sure if this will actually bring the whole side closer together but my thinking is, if the defence is higher up the pitch it would push the other two lines forward a bit too but because there would be less of the pitch to play around then it could in theory bring them together? 

 

The other things I would think is runners from midfield, my wide men will probably be doing the most of this to plug the gap between midfield and attack, also a striker who drops deep would come in handy to help plug that gap, while I imagine the full backs and maybe the more defensive minded of the midfield duo could help plug a gap in between defence and midfield.

 

I'm hoping I'm thinking along the right terms but worried this won't really be a good idea to use 442 and structured. 

 

Thanks

[herne79]

@Conflictinbanno

What you outline is exactly what I did with my 4-4-2.

[Conflictinbanno]

Just now, herne79 said:

@Conflictinbanno

What you outline is exactly what I did with my 4-4-2.

Was this in the thread where you made Thames Ironworks FC? 

I may have to give it another read as it has been a while since I last read it so can't remember, my only worry there is, my players are nowhere near the class of yours. You probably remember my Ipswich save that I've kind of abandoned for a while from getting into other games on Xbox a bit more, but feel tonight I want to pick it back up. 

[Craigus89]

@Conflictinbanno

The only other thing to consider with using a higher defensive line is how much you are using a high block/pressing up the pitch with your attackers and midfield. I have come seriously unstuck using a high line but not having an effective press with balls over the top, whether that is because of my tactics not working quite right in relation to the press or having lazy players. In a lower league team this could be more of an issue?

By the sounds of it, a Standard mentality might be a good balance for you from what you have described, but obviously haven't seen the rest of your system...

Edited September 8, 2016 by Craigus89

[Conflictinbanno]

21 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

@Conflictinbanno

The only other thing to consider with using a higher defensive line is how much you are using a high block/pressing up the pitch with your attackers and midfield. I have come seriously unstuck using a high line but not having an effective press with balls over the top, whether that is because of my tactics not working quite right in relation to the press or having lazy players. In a lower league team this could be more of an issue?

By the sounds of it, a Standard mentality might be a good balance for you from what you have described, but obviously haven't seen the rest of your system...

I'll probably start a proper thread to show the full system, problem is, I'm at the playoffs so don't have many games for the rest of the season. However, I can't see me losing my job whether I qualify or not as I'm performing above expectations overall, I'm just not perfectly happy as the team can be very inconsistent. My only fear is losing my best player if I'm not promoted. 

Luckily I'm not in the lower leagues I'm in the Championship and I could consider using close down more on the poacher of the two strikers and even possibly the supporting striker of F9/DLF depending who I'm using there but I don't want them to be pushed to far out of position from closing down. 

Going by memory however I think my setup was 

Gk(d)

FB (A) CD (D) CD (D) FB (S)

WM (S) CM (D) DLP (S) W (S)

F9/DLF (S) P (A)

I tried varied ideas of using Fluid/Very Fluid with be more disciplined but I much prefer my team to stick to their roles more so the Structured/Very Structured mentality suits me personally much more. I think the WM has PI's to try to mimic an IF a little to Cut Inside/Dribble More and be a threat at goal too, I also think the CM (D) has close down less as I think the role from memory codes to close down more which sometimes worries me he will move out of position at times. TI's wise this could all change following my question above but I think I had be more disciplined (something I would drop if I go structured) and stay on feet. Other than them I can't remember what ones I have! 

 

From what I like though, I don't mind pressing from the attackers, however the rest of the team I like without the ball to keep shape and be hard to break down rather than closing down loads and winning the ball back.

[Craigus89]

Stick a thread up, I'd be interested to see your whole system as I really like the 4-4-2 as as it can be so versatile.

I'd also be interested to see the players you use in whatever you think the key positions are for your system. That is often overlooked on these boards when people try to help with tactics in my opinion.

[Conflictinbanno]

45 minutes ago, Craigus89 said:

Stick a thread up, I'd be interested to see your whole system as I really like the 4-4-2 as as it can be so versatile.

I'd also be interested to see the players you use in whatever you think the key positions are for your system. That is often overlooked on these boards when people try to help with tactics in my opinion.

Craig I'll definitely do one when I'm home and on the machine with the save. So should be up later this afternoon/early evening. 

Key players I find tough though, bizarrely a player that has made himself key to me is my Poacher, first season I had Sears who had probably a season I couldn't even have dreamed of scoring something like 30 goals, unfortunately he was injured right at the end and for the start of next season so I signed Dwight Gayle who has had a similarly successful season so far. However, I wouldn't say they are the key piece to the tactic, I find the major ones are LM/RM RB, the CM who is a playmaker and the False 9 as combined I feel they all make it tick and are probably why the Poacher had the success he has. Hopefully with the full thread it can give a better insight to it all overall though! 

[Craigus89]

Cool, I'll keep an eye out for it!

[Ji-Sung Park]

Fabio Borini just scored two goals against me. Has anyone else encountered this before?

[Velodromè]

Regarding tutoring of young players, does personalities stack up? If I have a youngster who is Very ambitious and I have him tutored by players that are Driven and/or Model Pro, could he turn in to a Perfectionist?

[herne79]

51 minutes ago, Velodromè said:

Regarding tutoring of young players, does personalities stack up? If I have a youngster who is Very ambitious and I have him tutored by players that are Driven and/or Model Pro, could he turn in to a Perfectionist?

Unlikely.

During Tutoring it's not actually the "personality" that gets changed, it's some hidden attributes (and Determination).  Different combinations of different hidden attributes define the personality.  So the hidden attributes in the player being tutored can get changed up to (but not exceeding) the tutor's hidden attributes.

This is why sometimes at the end of tutoring a player ends up with a different personality to the Tutor's - because not all attributes that define the personality have changed sufficiently to "make" that personality.

[Ji-Sung Park]

Question from the sidelines:

What do you guys do to get motivated? I have some time off now where it would be perfect to play a little, but I feel jaded with FM16 and not very motivated to fire up a long running save. I used to go with some replicas before when I felt this way, but now I can't find anything I'd like to try etc.

Ideas?

[Keyzer Soze]

Why don't give it a try in one of those challenges in FMT?

[herne79]

41 minutes ago, Ji-Sung Park said:

Question from the sidelines:

What do you guys do to get motivated? I have some time off now where it would be perfect to play a little, but I feel jaded with FM16 and not very motivated to fire up a long running save. I used to go with some replicas before when I felt this way, but now I can't find anything I'd like to try etc.

Ideas?

If you're feeling a bit jaded from FM (or indeed any other game or activity), sometimes it can be an idea to just stop for a while.  Take a break, do something different, go outside and enjoy life.  Recharge the batteries and come back stronger for FM17.

[goalash]

How do you tell, by looking at the 3D/2D field, how high is the opponent's defensive line?

[Hoptoad]

If I understand it correctly playmakers have a hardcoded ability to 'attract' the ball, but are there other roles with abilities not explained by their PIs?

To be more precise: Is there anything 'special' about a box-to-box midfielder not explained by its instructions? E.g. if I take a central midfielder on support with the roaming PI, would he be identical to a B2B-midfielder?

 

[superdave]

I can't remember EXACTLY what happened, but a few seasons ago I was messing with my tactics and "lost" one of them.  I had 3 and when I started messing with a 4th, one of them disappeared.  When I added it back, my team had to start from 0 on familiarity.

I want to add a 4-4-1-1 to my quiver, but am afraid of losing something I've worked on when I do this.  Please advise.  (If the only option is to just ditch one of the tactics, how do I choose which one?  Because the main thing is I don't want to lose my base, 4-2-3-1 again.  If I lose my 4-4-2 counter, or even my 4-1-2-3, meh.)

[Dr. Hook]

18 minutes ago, superdave said:

I can't remember EXACTLY what happened, but a few seasons ago I was messing with my tactics and "lost" one of them.  I had 3 and when I started messing with a 4th, one of them disappeared.  When I added it back, my team had to start from 0 on familiarity.

I want to add a 4-4-1-1 to my quiver, but am afraid of losing something I've worked on when I do this.  Please advise.  (If the only option is to just ditch one of the tactics, how do I choose which one?  Because the main thing is I don't want to lose my base, 4-2-3-1 again.  If I lose my 4-4-2 counter, or even my 4-1-2-3, meh.)

As far as I know, you always can only have three at any one time. I seem to recall there was some way to get around this in the past that involved some trickery, but I couldn't tell you what it was or if it still works. That said, if you want to add one, then you remove the one you want least. So clear out the one you don't care to keep before you start creating a new one, so you have a free slot. That's how I do it. Apologies if this is not answering quite what you are asking.

[Dr. Hook]

19 hours ago, goalash said:

How do you tell, by looking at the 3D/2D field, how high is the opponent's defensive line?

Look where the centerbacks move to when they are on the attack. The more they get past the halfway line, the higher the opponent d-line is playing.

[Bigpapa42]

Slightly odd question... but at what point does a long cross pitch pass near the opponent goal become a cross?

I know the FM16 engine has crossing issues, and I'm trying to figure out if the 4-1-4-1 very fluid high press tactic (based on Ozil's Sacchi 4-4-2 thread) is exploiting that or not. My side scores these goals that I love on occasion - either a winger or a CM snaps a long pass/cross from relatively deep (not by the halfway line but not that close to the byline either) across the goal and either the opposite winger or the striker is there to clip it into goal quite easily. The only TI I have regarding crosses is Low Crosses. The players making the player typically have fairly mediocre crossing but better passing. I think the game considers them a cross, but not always. So.... cross or longer crossfield pass?

[pedrosantos]

Touchline Shout "Ask for More". What's the context here: ask for more because the team is not playing well enough, and I want more of my players ?; or ask for more because my players are doing well and I want more of the same ?

[dolph11]

On 25/8/2016 at 07:59, dolph11 said:

Quick question, I'm currently playing with 4-2-3-1 with 2 defensive midfielders

           GK

FB/a CD/d CD/d FB/s

          DM/s  RGA/s

IF/s        AP/a       W/a

                  AF/a

I use an attacking mentality with structured team shape. Which role best suits an attacking midfielder so not to constantly try through balls. I've tried the advanced playmaker with both support and attack duties and I lose a lot of possession due to his constant through balls. None of my AM's have 'tries through balls often' and I can't edit it in the player instructions as it's hard checked into the players instruction. I like the movement and the positions on the field where my AP's have possession but they're just so wasteful. Ideally, I'd be able to uncheck 'more risky passes' but it's not possible. 

Do any of the other roles give you the same movement and positioning off the ball as the advanced playmaker without the constant through ball attempts? 

[herne79]

13 minutes ago, dolph11 said:

                  AF/a

I use an attacking mentality with structured team shape. Which role best suits an attacking midfielder so not to constantly try through balls. I've tried the advanced playmaker with both support and attack duties and I lose a lot of possession due to his constant through balls. None of my AM's have 'tries through balls often' and I can't edit it in the player instructions as it's hard checked into the players instruction. I like the movement and the positions on the field where my AP's have possession but they're just so wasteful. Ideally, I'd be able to uncheck 'more risky passes' but it's not possible. 

Do any of the other roles give you the same movement and positioning off the ball as the advanced playmaker without the constant through ball attempts? 

Use the Advanced Midfielder role and adjust PIs to match those of the Advanced Playmaker, minus More Risky Passes.

[dolph11]

Thanks Herne. Will give that a try. 

[Dr. Hook]

22 hours ago, pedrosantos said:

Touchline Shout "Ask for More". What's the context here: ask for more because the team is not playing well enough, and I want more of my players ?; or ask for more because my players are doing well and I want more of the same ?

It's the first one.

[pedrosantos]

On 17/09/2016 at 15:44, Dr. Hook said:

It's the first one.

Thanks Dr 

[Andrew K]

In regards to building team cohesion does the game factor in who has played with who?  For instance, if I play a friendly with only my second team will those players be more cohesive the next time they play with the first team?

Edited September 19, 2016 by Andrew K

[isignedupfornorealreason]

...

 

Why did nobody tell me that on FMT, teams from leagues not loaded get a free match fitness boost. >_>

 

Here I was making a FMT game wondering why Blackburn was running rings around me all the time, and never did I think to see they all had match fitness while mine were still hungover in the pre-season phase. Pft! >_>

[vasilli07]

They don't get match fitness boost. Which league did you choose to manage in? And did you choose to start your league during preseason or start of season? There is a match fitness difference depending on which one you choose.

[Keyzer Soze]

Hi,

Is there anyway to rest players when managing a national team?

Playing with Portugal in WC2018, and after 3 games most of my players need some rest and i don't know what to do.

[burtanza]

I have a question about training and training schedules. Can someone tell me exactly what attributes are focused on within the different training schedules in team training?

[herne79]

58 minutes ago, burtanza said:

I have a question about training and training schedules. Can someone tell me exactly what attributes are focused on within the different training schedules in team training?

Have a look in the FAQs sticky at the top of this forum (Training section) .

[burtanza]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

Have a look in the FAQs sticky at the top of this forum (Training section) .

Ah yes, of course. It didnt even cross my mind. Will do. Thanks!

[Bigpapa42]

Okay, so a pretty subjective question but I'm stuck at work and mulling a new save, so figured it can't hurt to ask. Randomly started a save last night with Hamburg on a post-summer window data update. I haven't managed HSV since they had Kompany, de Jong, and Van der Vaart. They have a bit of money to spend in the update, and they signed two really promsing players in the summer - Alen Halilovic from Barcelona and Arianit Ferati from Stuttgart. Tho the latter is out on loan already. What I'm mulling is what to try to develop the pair of them into.

Both are naturally AMCs. But the tactic I've been using doesn't use an AMC. I've been using a 4-1-4-1 variation of Ozil's Sacchi 4-4-2, with a DM. Even if I went to a 4-4-1-1 with an AMC, neither Halilovic nor Ferati have the workrate I would want. Both are small, technical, reasonably creative, good passing and touch, great flair, but not much pace. They both have some versatility. I could retrain them to be wingers or central mids.

The 4-1-4-1 I'm using has a DLP in one CM position as the primary pivot. A B2B or CM-S is the other CM. The two wide players are WM or W. Retraining those two as wide mids is most appealing - they have reasonable Crossing but the mediocre workrate and not great pace is a bit of a concern. Neither has or is likely to quickly develop the right tools to be overly effective as a CM or B2B. Halilovic could make a solid DLP - he has really good First Touch, good Passing, decent Vision and he's not a total liability defensively. His pace would be no issue there. But he a PPM for Runs Often with Ball... and that's not what I really want from a DLP.

Basically, asking what others would retain them as - wingers or keep them central. And whether having a DLP who has a tendency to dribble forward with the ball is likely to be a liability beside another CM who likes to keep forward, but backed by a DM....?

 

[Sussex Hammer]

Bit late to be asking this when FM17 is nearly out but I have been tinkering about and have noticed that any player without "move into channels" and "hold position" being greyed out by a role can have both ticked by the user.  I assumed if one was ticked then the other would automatically grey out , I mean I can't see any logic to having both ticked as they are counter productive aren't they?!?!

[mikcheck]

Hello,

 

Is there any thread talking about 3-4-1-2 system?

tks

[torehj]

I`m having big problems on my left back. First halv of the season gone and 13 of 32 goal conceded is from crosses from my left side. My left back is still one of my best players, both in rating and in stars (7,45 and 4 stars). It looks to me like he is always too narrow in defence. Looks more like a CD when we are under attack.

On the other side we have only conceded 4 goals, but my right back is just 17 years old and really no good (6,66 and 2 stars).

I have tried different instructions on my left back, with no result. I play a 4123 with a inside attacker (support) in front of him.

Any ideas?

[superdave]

I'm running a 4-2-3-1.  Many teams IRL task one mid with being the main player moving the ball from back to front, and a different mid tasked with making the assist.  I'd avoided that with FM because I figured it would confuse my players, but after 3 years of sub-mediocrity, I thought what the heck.  So I changed my CM to DLP (D), short passing, and it's working very well.  I'm better defensively without giving up any offense.

the problem is that I'm getting little or nothing from the AMR and AML.  My two main ones are young enough to still be improving, so that ain't it.  In particular, my AMR who has been great as a RMD is averaging about 6.8.  If I can get him back to the player he was last year (15 goals) then I'll have a good team.

thoughts?

DL on support, DR is WB on support, CF, other CM is BWM (D).  Everything else is pretty vanilla; I usually play control or standard depending on opposition and home/away.

[Bigpapa42]

Well, your DLP is the main guy moving the ball about... how close are the AMR and AML to him in average position? The fact that you have shortened his passing means they may be out of range for where you are telling him to pass the ball. A CM as DLP on defend is gonna hang pretty deep, whereas the AMR and AML will be quite high.

That said, don't just go by the average rating. Are they getting touches? Involved in passing sequences? Making penetrating runs? Players can still be highly effective even if they aren't the ones getting the credit with the goal or the assist. But if they aren't seeing the ball, they are too isolated.

[Bunkerossian]

Which attributes affect the willingness of a centre back to attack a crossed ball on the defense? Not just the likelihood of a successful clearance, but the likelihood that he'll move in to try and clear it.

[superdave]

3 hours ago, Bigpapa42 said:

Well, your DLP is the main guy moving the ball about... how close are the AMR and AML to him in average position? The fact that you have shortened his passing means they may be out of range for where you are telling him to pass the ball. A CM as DLP on defend is gonna hang pretty deep, whereas the AMR and AML will be quite high.

That said, don't just go by the average rating. Are they getting touches? Involved in passing sequences? Making penetrating runs? Players can still be highly effective even if they aren't the ones getting the credit with the goal or the assist. But if they aren't seeing the ball, they are too isolated.

sorry I wasn't clear about something...my AMC is an AP.  so the DLP and AMC are working very well together.  But the AMR and AML aren't contributing much.    The new system has helped my possession and defense.  The goals and assists I've lost from the wingers, I've just traded for Gs and As from the CF, AMC, and DLP.  I'm just trying to claw back some of the production from my wingers.

but I'll take a look at the heat maps.  My AML is usually on support, so that shouldn't be a problem.  One other thing I might try is changing the DLP to the left CM from right CM, to get him a bit closer to the AML.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, Bunkerossian said:

Which attributes affect the willingness of a centre back to attack a crossed ball on the defense? Not just the likelihood of a successful clearance, but the likelihood that he'll move in to try and clear it.

Determination, Aggression, Bravery will govern his will to win and willingness to get stuck in.  Concentration, Decisions will help him decide when to do it and help maintain his focus for 90 minutes.  Positioning, Anticipation to help him be in the right place at the right time.  And Composure to help him deal with the pressure.

On the flip side, personally I don't really like too much Aggression in a centre back as I find it can encourage them to leave their position to close down an opponent a little too zealously.

[swansongs]

On 9/26/2016 at 09:58, torehj said:

I`m having big problems on my left back. First halv of the season gone and 13 of 32 goal conceded is from crosses from my left side. My left back is still one of my best players, both in rating and in stars (7,45 and 4 stars). It looks to me like he is always too narrow in defence. Looks more like a CD when we are under attack.

On the other side we have only conceded 4 goals, but my right back is just 17 years old and really no good (6,66 and 2 stars).

I have tried different instructions on my left back, with no result. I play a 4123 with a inside attacker (support) in front of him.

Any ideas?

Does your right back have better support (in front and inside)?

Star ratings are (almost) meaningless, so maybe look to specific attributes that might be failing him as a defender. Match ratings are heavily influenced by attacking play.

[Bunkerossian]

12 hours ago, herne79 said:

Determination, Aggression, Bravery will govern his will to win and willingness to get stuck in.  Concentration, Decisions will help him decide when to do it and help maintain his focus for 90 minutes.  Positioning, Anticipation to help him be in the right place at the right time.  And Composure to help him deal with the pressure.

On the flip side, personally I don't really like too much Aggression in a centre back as I find it can encourage them to leave their position to close down an opponent a little too zealously.

I am having trouble with crosses, thus the question. My defenders are often too passive about a crossed ball into the box.

[herne79]

52 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

I am having trouble with crosses, thus the question. My defenders are often too passive about a crossed ball into the box.

Central Defenders are your last line of defence.  If you're having trouble with crosses, think about reducing the crossing opportunites.

[Bunkerossian]

3 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Central Defenders are your last line of defence.  If you're having trouble with crosses, think about reducing the crossing opportunites.

The thing is, not every cross can be prevented. In the league, where I allow my full backs more attacking movement, it often happens that the very first cross the opposition get in, after being dominated by me otherwise, results in a goal. I replay the goal- I see passivity from the defense and the GK. In Europe, I do far better at defending against the crosses.

[herne79]

28 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

The thing is, not every cross can be prevented

Of course, that would be unrealistic.

28 minutes ago, Bunkerossian said:

In the league, where I allow my full backs more attacking movement, it often happens that the very first cross the opposition get in, after being dominated by me otherwise, results in a goal. I replay the goal- I see passivity from the defense and the GK. In Europe, I do far better at defending against the crosses.

It sounds like you have already found an answer .