Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '07

[nic9394]

Home v The 3-3-2-1-1

Mentality: RoT

Width: 17

Time Wasting: 3

Farrows: Long on wingers, short on FBs

Barrows: None

Sarrows: None

FWRs: Often for all except DMC (mixed) and DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 3

D-Line: 3

CD for Defenders: DCs 17, FBs 15, DMC 15

CD for Attackers: FCs 3, AMC 5, wingers 10

CF for Defenders: DCs 3, FBs 5, DMC 5

CF for Attackers: FCs 17, AMC 15, wingers 10

Counter-Attack: No

Offside Trap: No

im pretty sure this wil work. but if i recall i used my version versus 33211, and everytime i would beat it. The only difference i had was have

tempo 14

df 5

focus passing mixed

maybe it'll work with a slow tempo, but from my experience it works wonders with the tempo high.

[nic9394]

I would definately be interested in testing test. I'll build and test them over half-season/ a season, and I'll let you know how I get on. One question though, is the home V 3-3-2-1-1 to be used at home against all very defensive systems, or specifically the 3-3-2-1-1?

You're supposed to use it against all those defensive formations with 1 striker.

It works against 33211, the defensive 4141 and 4411.

It doesnt work too well against other formations such as 442 with short arrows or 442 no arrows. or any attacking formation with 1 striker.

[nic9394]

by "not work too well", i mean u will not overpower the opposition with shots on target. it's be rather even depending on the quality of ur team in comparison to their's.

[mal9ball]

I've went straight down the toilet using the RoT system, unfortunately more tweaking will be needed. I went a bit OTT, every mirror is in there as well as every CF/CD things and all recommendations. I think my tempo is too high, and I'm gonna try that tonight. I had a bad run of injuries, no one can win with the dirt I've had to play recently, but I think this TF&T stuff is a good starting point to base your tactics on.

Thanks.

[stonecold_jpm]

Originally posted by wwfan:

Instead of answering individual posts, I have read through the forums, taken into account complaints and successes, and come up with the following ideas. Hope you can use them.

Tactical Systems

Disclaimer

These are hugely experimental and have had no testing at all. They are the result of forum reading and analysis and I would love for people to try them out and report back. They may not work; they may work fantastically well. What is life without a risk?

Key Instruction

Keep an eye on the formation screen throughout the match so you can switch tactics when the AI does.

Basic Instructions

All of the instructions are intended for a 4-4-2 Diamond. Please read the opening post for a more complete understanding of individual instructions etc. This post contradicts some of those instructions due to its experimental nature.

Further Experiments

Shorten passing for the home tactics

Lengthen passing for the away tactics

D-Line is hugely experimental and follows supersaint’s theories. It may be that RoT instructions need to become more defensive as the d-line is too high away. If that is the case reduce RoT by 2 or 4 throughout, and drop d-line by the corresponding notch.

Offside Trap is also hugely experimental. Turn it off if it is not working.

Home v The 3-3-2-1-1

Mentality: RoT

Width: 17

Time Wasting: 3

Farrows: Long on wingers, short on FBs

Barrows: None

Sarrows: None

FWRs: Often for all except DMC (mixed) and DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 3

D-Line: 3

CD for Defenders: DCs 17, FBs 15, DMC 15

CD for Attackers: FCs 3, AMC 5, wingers 10

CF for Defenders: DCs 3, FBs 5, DMC 5

CF for Attackers: FCs 17, AMC 15, wingers 10

Counter-Attack: No

Offside Trap: No

Home v Defensive Systems

Mentality: RoT

Width: 15

Time Wasting: 5

Farrows: Long on wingers

Barrows: None

Sarrows: None

FWRs: Often for all except DMC & FBs (mixed) and DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 5

D-Line: 5

CD for Defenders: DCs 15, FBs 15, DMC 15

CD for Attackers: FCs 5, AMC 5, wingers 10

CF for Defenders: DCs 3, FBs 5, DMC 5

CF for Attackers: FCs 15, AMC 15, wingers 10

Counter-Attack: No

Offside Trap: No

Home v Normal Systems

Mentality: RoT

Width: 12

Time Wasting: 8

Farrows: Short on wingers

Barrows: Short on AMC

Sarrows: None

FWRs: Often for all except DMC, FBs & wingers (mixed) and DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 8

D-Line: 8

CD for Defenders: DCs 12, FBs 12, DMC 15

CD for Attackers: FCs 8, AMC 8, wingers 10

CF for Defenders: DCs 3, FBs 5, DMC 5

CF for Attackers: FCs 15, AMC 15, wingers 10

Counter-Attack: No

Offside Trap: No

Away v Normal Systems

Mentality: RoT

Width: 8

Time Wasting: 12

Farrows: Short on wingers

Barrows: Short on AMC

Sarrows: None

FWRs: Often for all except FBs & wingers (mixed) and DMC, DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 12

D-Line: 12

CD for Defenders: DCs 8, FBs 8, DMC 12

CD for Attackers: FCs 12, AMC 12, wingers 14

CF for Defenders: DCs 3, FBs 5, DMC 5

CF for Attackers: FCs 15, AMC 15, wingers 10

Counter-Attack: Yes

Offside Trap: Yes

Away v Attacking Systems

Mentality: RoT

Width: 5

Time Wasting: 15

Farrows: None

Barrows: Short on AMC

Sarrows: FCs

FWRs: Often for all except wingers (mixed) and DMC, FBs & DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 15

D-Line: 15

CD for Defenders: DCs 5, FBs 5, DMC 9

CD for Attackers: FCs 15, AMC 15, wingers 17

CF for Defenders: DCs 3, FBs 5, DMC 5

CF for Attackers: FCs 15, AMC 15, wingers 5

Counter-Attack: Yes

Offside Trap: Yes

Away v Ultra Attacking Systems

Mentality: RoT

Width: 3

Time Wasting: 17

Farrows: None

Barrows: Short on AMC & wingers

Sarrows: FCs

FWRs: Often for all except wingers, DMC, FBs & DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 17

D-Line: 17

CD for Defenders: DCs 3, FBs 3, DMC 6

CD for Attackers: FCs 18, AMC 18, wingers 20

CF for Defenders: DCs 1, FBs 3, DMC 3

CF for Attackers: FCs 15, AMC 15, wingers 3

Counter-Attack: Yes

Offside Trap: Yes

Testing

Testing all 6 formations will take a while. Please post any findings, positive or negative, about these systems. Good luck and thanks to those that decide to try them out.

ROT is garbage away from home its either a 3-0 win or a 4-0 hammering.Playing narrow sucks they just pass it wide and cross it in and its a goal almost every time.

[MPAK]

Well, almost all of u here talk bout RoT style of play. Going throw wwfan guide, and commentaries to it, i decided to try and exploit 5x5 theorem. As wwfan stated above, it was intersing to see a different mentality split, from generally used 5/15. I tried 4/16 and short passing (4 for all except MR/L - they got 8). the results were amasing. Here r the 2 tactics i created using this theorem: Home (with long Farrowed MR/L) and Away (with short farrowed MR/L and short barrowed AMC).

The results r:

Arsenal

6 away games:

3-0 vs R Spa FC

Shots: 2(1) - 16 (6)

Pos: 39 - 61

Corners: 2 - 7

Fouls: 23 - 10

2-0 vs RC Mechelen

Shots: 1(0) - 18 (6)

Pos: 40 - 60

Corners: 3 - 6

Fouls: 21 - 9

2-0 vs Lierse

Shots: 0(0) - 17 (8)

Pos: 42 - 58

Corners: 0 - 5

Fouls: 14 - 13

3-0 vs Wolfsburg

Shots: 2(0) - 16 (6)

Pos: 44 - 56

Corners: 2 - 4

Fouls: 20 - 20

3-0 vs Partizan

Shots: 4(1) - 22 (12)

Pos: 41 - 59

Corners: 2 - 11

Fouls: 12 - 14

3-0 vs Shrewsbury

Shots: 0(0) - 25 (8)

Pos: 39 - 61

Corners: 1 - 4

Fouls: 14 - 5

Home results will b shortly. Thorough testing by forum members will b much appreciated.

Away

Home

[paz]

No offence but you are using Arsenal against poor to mediocre teams.

[MPAK]

well as i have seen tests r done here using a good team against poor or mediocre.

No offence taken, paz, as i have stated further testing is up the line.

Spartak Moscow, also gives good results, btw.

2 b continued.

[supersaint]

I was allowed by my girlfriend to download the demo to her pc and have been able to experiment a little bit more with the defensive line.

Im feeling that Im getting somewhere, but theres still things to be done.

What I have been doing is the following:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>4 tactics, 2 home(against strong/weak teams) and 2 away(strong/weak)

<LI>I defend deep against stronger teams with high closing down, high against weaker teams with low closing down

<LI>Im pairing closing down and creative freedom globally (so that the total sum of all players CD and CF equals to 200)

<LI>Mentality as per ROT, paired with passing(as CD and CF)

<LI>I play most narrow against strong team away, most wide against weak teams away

As you can see, not all of the above is what others recommend, but remember that this is still under testing. The reason why I defend deep against strong teams is that I want to invite them up the field, close them down quickly and get space for my attacking players. Playing with a high line against weaker teams, gives them limited options to go forward, and force them to send long balls forward. With defenders that dont close down quickly, will most of the time be able to get back into position fast(so that DCs dont get dragged out to the flanks, leaving strikers alone in the middle).

This worked very well with Leeds, and now Ive tried it for a couple of matches in the demo with Southampton.

Against stronger teams at home

Leeds: 2-0(49% possession)

WBA : 1-1(51%)

Against stronger teams at away

Norwich: 1-1(50%)

Leicester: 0-0 (48%)

Against weaker at home

Preston: 1-0 (54%)

QPR: 1-0 (54%)

Derby: 2-0 (51%)

Against weaker at away

Southend: 2-1 (41%)

Shrewsbury: 4-1(51%, League Cup)

So the results are ok, but I still need to work on the attacking part of the tactics, so that I can get some more goals. But I think that have more to do with how I set up RWB, FWR, Arrows etc.

But its looking good, regarding the DL and Closing Down for defenders

Thank god for my wonderful girlfriend, that lets me play FM instead of playing with her

[El Padre]

My revised version of RoT Solid is now up on FMDownloads.

Ro2 Solid Gold

This uses the guidelines above for home and away etc. Its working twice as good as my original so far.

[tapman]

in the RoT-system, what is the mentality for :

DMC?

AMC?

is it the same as you play MCd and MCa?

[crazy gra]

Thank god for my wonderful girlfriend, that lets me play FM instead of playing with her

cheers for doing more testing on that. sounds like you have a quality girlfriend, but manage your time well between the two so you have plenty of time for playing with her too.

i think my missus would shoot me if i asked about downloading the demo onto her comp for when i was round hers

[Humiliator]

Two questions:

1. If that 3-3-2-1-1 is so dreadful (I have to admit I never really played FM so deeply to care about opposistion formations) is there a way to use it when you manage a poor team against a very good one? Have anyone tried and is it succesful? If so I'd love to see the details of such tactic.

2. If you change tactics on a match-to-match basis, or even apply two or three formations in one game aren't players a bit confused on what they have to do? I mean, it always takes time for players to adjust to a new tactic and instructions. What do you think about that?

And as to testing the new RoT systems:

After struggling for around 8 matches my Wisla Krakow team (good in Poland, poor in Europe) implemented the El padre's Ro2 Solid Gold tactics and the start of the testing is very promising.

First match - UEFA cup away against PSG.

I used RoT away against attacking - result 2-2.

I watched the whole match, PSG didn't dominate too much, I really liked the pressing my players showed, a lot of interceptions from my side. What I lacked was the final pass that usually was cleared by the french defense but - this is rather the difference in levels of these two teams. I scored a leading goal for 2-1 in 83' just to suffer an equalizer 5 minutes later.

Second match. Away in league with overperforming Gornik Leczna (relegation candidate being currently the leader)

Used RoT away with defensive which ended up with a 3-2 win with a winning goal in 90'

Probably a better tactic would be away with normal as Leczna wasn't defending all the time. Lokked like I had the control, but Leczna did have its chances to score, and my individual mistakes gave them two goals. I hot quite a few chances but managed to convert only 3. Enough to win, not enough to be relaxed

The thing that bothers me a lot is the manner of my players who receive a ball, then push the ball a lil forward - right in front of opposition. Lost a lot of possesion by such stupid mistakes - is it a dribble attempt that is lost, cause from the 2d looks like my player simply counts that the defender will disappear...

[Guest]

hi xavierm,

so you are french ? moi aussi, et malheureusement je suis très mauvais en anglais ! Donc serait-il possible que tu m'explique le système de tactique rot en français stp. merci d'avance

[El Padre]

Originally posted by Humiliator:

The thing that bothers me a lot is the manner of my players who receive a ball, then push the ball a lil forward - right in front of opposition. Lost a lot of possesion by such stupid mistakes - is it a dribble attempt that is lost, cause from the 2d looks like my player simply counts that the defender will disappear...

That drives me crazy, I've no idea why players do that, I don't know if its a bug/flaw in the match engine.

[Beerofka]

Originally posted by El Padre:

That drives me crazy, I've no idea why players do that, I don't know if its a bug/flaw in the match engine.

Put "run with ball" to rarely with players who constantly fail to dribble.

[El Padre]

constantly

I find its something that players who have high dribbling stats do though, its almost like an overconfidence thing.

[Beerofka]

It must have something to do with tactics though since I don't have the problem with my current set. Too high or low tempo might cause it.

[El Padre]

cause

Could be, it doesn't happen often though so not a huge problem!

[Humiliator]

Originally posted by Beerofka:

It must have something to do with tactics though since I don't have the problem with my current set. Too high or low tempo might cause it.

Perhaps, but I wonder if players' attributes influence it. I mean I didn't really notice that my particular players do that. Usually happens on the wing, when my player receives a pass, has some space but instead of make a dribble/play the ball away frome the opponent he simply pushes the ball forward so that the chasing defender can succesfully tackle/steal the ball. It's so frustrating because top league players should know such move is equal to giving up possesion.

Another thing that happens sometimes is when my winger or forward receives an excellent pass and I would expect him to run forward with the ball, especially when he is 5-10m ahead of the defender, but he suddenly slows down or even stops for a moment and the defender steals the ball. It's like I have ******** players in my team - cause If I tell you to play defensively, don't do forward runs etc. but you have a probable scoring chance, just need to run a couple of metres and shoot - then you take that chance.

[simsejensen]

Which one of these RoT's tactics would you say were the best setup?

Im having doubts about these theories, but are willing to give it a good go

[El Padre]

Which one of these RoT's tactics would you say were the best setup?

I use them all, which one is best really depends on the situation you're facing.

[Beerofka]

Originally posted by Humiliator:

Perhaps, but I wonder if players' attributes influence it. I mean I didn't really notice that my particular players do that. Usually happens on the wing, when my player receives a pass, has some space but instead of make a dribble/play the ball away frome the opponent he simply pushes the ball forward so that the chasing defender can succesfully tackle/steal the ball. It's so frustrating because top league players should know such move is equal to giving up possesion.

Maybe you have wingers with too high mentality so that they try dribble forward whenever possible? I have wingers (ARL and AML) with mentality of 10 (in "normal" tactic) and also a target man with a lower setting than according to RoT-theory, and they rarely give the ball away with futile dribbe attempts.

I had this "giving the ball away too easily" -problem with the first version of RoT Solid, so it must be a question of tempo and/or too high mentalities, since those are different in my system which doesn't have this problem.

[ntfc]

Hey wwfan , hows life down under with your wife..(and PHD)?

I remember a year back when you first stumbled on the 5x5 theory's etc, when we were initially creating improve default tactics.

How is the ROT theory coping in 07'?

[garyh66]

I remenber reading a thread on your closing down wwfan so made a tick tac and started a new leeds game and the results where just amazing

Pld 49 Won 33 Drn 12 Lst 1 For 102 Ag 39 Pts 111

Hope the link works

http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tableml4.png

[ntfc]

That's immense

Have you followed the ROT theory etc Gary?

I have applied all the theory's etc and the results have not been positive so far, i will have a look over the week and re-adjust a few things.

[garyh66]

No Just wwfan closing down the team plays like you are counter attacking but with no counter attack ticked it looks a bit like how notts forest played in the 80s you need fast strikers. Can you give xfires, msn out over the forum?

[ntfc]

I don't understand what you mean about xfire?

[garyh66]

bit like msn m8 you can use it to chat it also let you no what games severs your friends are playing on and what games there playing

[crazy gra]

i'm trying out some things to do with target men. i thing i was trying is having a target man at AMC, the main thinking being that he drags out the DCs to create more space and/or his flick-ons don't run through to the keeper as often especially if the opposition are playing a deep defensive line.

only tried this for one game, with the target man setting as mixed, but hardly any balls were put in the air for the AMC to flick on and most of the balls were being played up to the ST. i was watching extended highlights of the game. the main question is: does a target man have to be playing as a ST?

[Benoit2]

As long as the target man option is enabled and your amc is top of the target men list, I dont see why he should not get a lot of balls to his head, assuming youve set to play target man to head.

[crazy gra]

well he was top of the list of people who were playing. target man option was ticked and i had 'mixed' as the distribution to him.

[Atila Le Breton]

When playing against the dreaded 3-3-2-1-1 formation with my team Rennes (an average First League side), I found that I was struggling a lot to break it down, even when I followed the tips of wwwfan. I tried many tweaks to avoid the long string of boring 0-0s, but nothing seemed to catch the opposition defence out of position.

I noticed that the main problem was that the attacking players were simply holding the ball too long, the ball was not moving fast enough.

So I got so annoyed that I took drastic measures, I kept all the instructions of wwfan, except for two of them:

I put every single one of my players on "Run with Ball" = Rarely except one of the strikers who was on medium

And I put every single one of my players on Direct Passing (16).

The effect on the pitch was instant as the ball was moving around the pitch a lot quicker.

All this, along with playing aroung with the tempo slider during the match, allowed much more convincing performances, with 2-0, 3-0 wins being the norm instead of the usual 0-0.

I haen't tested this extensively, but the first results seem encouraging.

[Guest pankester]

Originally posted by garyh66:

I remenber reading a thread on your closing down wwfan so made a tick tac and started a new leeds game and the results where just amazing

Pld 49 Won 33 Drn 12 Lst 1 For 102 Ag 39 Pts 111

Hope the link works

http://img160.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tableml4.png

Can you post a tactic?

[Bmaik]

I've just followed your theory about RoT with Real Madrid in season 2. I hope it's gonna work good cause had a dissapointing season in the competition reached the finals of the CL thow.

[El Padre]

I'm still finding that R0T is completely and utterly destroyed by the 4-3-2-1 formation that the AI throws out all the time. I've yet to find anything that can deal with that in any way shape or form, its impossible to break down.

dr--dc---dc--dl

------dmc-----

---md----md---

amr---------aml

------cf------

[ntfc]

Well i think WWfan posted an solution a few pages down on how to break the formation

[El Padre]

solution

Yep, I implemented every suggestion given. I managed to beat it once, but never since.

[wwfan]

Originally posted by Atila Le Breton:

When playing against the dreaded 3-3-2-1-1 formation with my team Rennes (an average First League side), I found that I was struggling a lot to break it down, even when I followed the tips of wwwfan. I tried many tweaks to avoid the long string of boring 0-0s, but nothing seemed to catch the opposition defence out of position.

I noticed that the main problem was that the attacking players were simply holding the ball too long, the ball was not moving fast enough.

So I got so annoyed that I took drastic measures, I kept all the instructions of wwfan, except for two of them:

I put every single one of my players on "Run with Ball" = Rarely except one of the strikers who was on medium

And I put every single one of my players on Direct Passing (16).

The effect on the pitch was instant as the ball was moving around the pitch a lot quicker.

All this, along with playing aroung with the tempo slider during the match, allowed much more convincing performances, with 2-0, 3-0 wins being the norm instead of the usual 0-0.

I haen't tested this extensively, but the first results seem encouraging.

This is interesting. Any further elaborations as to temp would be gratefully received.

Originally posted by garyh66:

I remenber reading a thread on your closing down wwfan so made a tick tac and started a new leeds game and the results where just amazing

Pld 49 Won 33 Drn 12 Lst 1 For 102 Ag 39 Pts 111

Also intereting. Again, any further elaboration appreciated.

I don't have much to add. Thanks to all those testing the 6-tactic split. I'll keep an eye on your thread El Padre to see how feedback is going.

@ ntfc: I can't play FM at the moment for reasons outlined in the Off-Topic-Thread. Hence, my reliance on others to test and experiment. RoT still seems to work, but there are a few theories that need further development.

[garyh66]

Lo wwfan the first time i read a post of yours not sure of the title of the thread but you explained about closing down at the low end anyway at the time i was struggling in the Prem second season with leeds so i put all my players closing down on bottom end of mixed made my DMC man maker there playmaker with closing down top end of mixed and just 1 striker top end of mixed this made the tactic more solid my results picked up and the tactic got better and better with the better players i signed. Was starting to get bored so i started a new game with leeds again but to see how the tactic would work with with crapper playes and was amazed how well it worked . Also just by putting arrows on my 2 strikers the tactic took off big time

Tactic

http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?image=tacticdh5.png

I just happen by luck to do this with the strikers after trailing 4-1 at halftime to Sunderland and ended up winning 6-4 also the tactic seamed to work well with quick stikers the closing down is the big plus for me coz the team it self looks more solid. I ended up sticking with the stikers in there new postion till the end of the season and scored a silly amount of goals. Now in the prem results are about 50-50 which i expected the players are just not good inuf but i no the tactic will fly again with better players

Instructions

http://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=instructionsct7.png

The width is the only thing i touched on the tactic home & away if they got a play sent off i went wide,if it was a close match i would start to go narrow

[garyh66]

Also 90% on my players have globel team instructions

[Guest]

I have to say,YOU ARE A GENIUS!!

I read your article in FM Chinese form at first,but the translator(a chinese fm player too)said he can't catch on all of ur opinion,so i'm looking for ur article in SI form,IT'S GREAT!!when the second season in Serie A was started,my juventus's result on the down grade.but now,i'm come back to the top of serie A.thanks a lot!!

[crazy gra]

3 At the Back With a DM or 4 defenders?

I was thinking about playing against weaker teams and I made a 4-2-2-2 variant of my 4-5-1 tactic on FM06 to play against weaker teams, although it’s been suggested to change instructions to play versus weaker teams. The 4-2-2-2 I made just changed the DM in my 4-5-1/4-1-2-2-1 to a ST, but I was wondering how it would be different if I kept the DM and played with 3 centre halves instead. In this test I ran 1 game 4 times, 2 times with 3 DCs (where the outer two have sarrows to DR and DL respectively) and a DM; and 2 times with 4 DCs and no DM. This is basically a test to see if I can gain better chances and convert more without it having too much of an adverse affect on my defence. I’ll mainly just comment on how the defence holds up as this is the variable, not the attack. I’m playing as Man Utd versus Celtic in a Champions League group game. here is the 4-5-1/4-1-2-2-1 i usually play with:

this is the 3-1-2-2-2 i played in the first two games:

Game 1 - Three DCs with a DM

Score: 3-2

Celtic shots (on target): 6(4)

My keeper rating: 7

Comments: Their first goal was a ball over the top, somehow Vennegor of Hesselink with pace 10 and acceleration 8 beat the defence and scored. The second was a poor back pass making the keeper make a mistake. Another through ball sent Miller clear, but my middle DC got back to make the tackle. I was playing a higher DL in this game (12) as I hoped that if the DM gets dragged back into defence then we have 4 defenders for their crosses, but I feel like I may need to lower it because of these through balls.

Game 2 - Three DCs with a DM but with d-line lowered from 10 to 8

Score: 5-0

Comments: I forgot to check celtic’s SOTs but I only ever remember Van Der Sar making 2 or 3 saves, although they were good saves and I think VDS got an 8 rating. Lowering the d-line really helped me in this game. I wasn’t caught out by balls over the top or through balls as much as in the previous game, although as I said, celtic had come good chances. These were either saved by my keeper, or my defenders were able to get back and make crucial tackles. Lowering the d-line also seemed to make the game better to watch with our passing. One of my goals was again a mistake my their keeper btw.

this is the 4-2-2-2 i played in the next two games:

Game 3 – Four DCs, no DM

Score: 2-0

Celtic shots (on target): 2 (0)

My keeper rating: 7

Comments: This was like the first game in that I had the d-line set at 10, but it didn’t provide me with any real problems like in the first game. Having wider defenders (although I had sarrows on the outer DCs for the first two games) helped to neutralise long balls down the flanks to strikers running wide. Once or twice perhaps one of their strikers got beyond my back line but was tackled before getting a shot in

Game 4 – Four DCs, no DM but with d-line lowered from 10 to 8

Score: 6-0

Celtic shots (on target): 8 (3)

My keeper rating: 8

Comments: Was surprised at how many I scored as Rooney was sent off on 25 minutes when I was 2-0 up. I still made plenty of chances and took most of them despite that. Rooney’s sending off let Celtic have a bit more of the ball though I think, which could well have been the reason for them having more chances. My keeper did some very good saves to keep a clean sheet but I defended very well most of the time when they played the ball forward. I’m going to keep this tactic and play it in the Celtic game for real when I carry on my game, so I’ll see how it changes if Rooney stays on the pitch this time.

Conclusion The last game worked the best in my opinion, which is why I’m going to give it a prolonged run. I’ve also got some difficult games coming up soon against Liverpool and Chelsea, so I’ll see how that goes. As both MC’s in the 4-2-2-2 are MCa’s I might play those difficult games twice – once with this tactic and another where I make one MC more defensive but not too much of an MCd, more of a go-between. Hopefully that showed some more information on the d-line as it proved to me that having the d-line set at 8 for home games (which i have in my 4-5-1) was working well, even though my defenders are quite quick.

[wwfan]

@ crazy gra: Do you feel this is validating my theory on the d-line? Deeper for attacking systems, higher for defensive. The difference in performance by tweaking the d-line by 2 seems astounding! El Padre seems to be offering validation of the high d-line defensively in his RoT Solid thread.

I think we are getting a handle on this in a major way.

NB: Are you experimenting with supersaint's theory on mirroring d-line with CD? I think he is really on to something.

[Rashidi]

@ wwwfan

Been playing with high closing down across the pitch except for the keeper, but without tightmarking and manmarking. Seems to nullify teams potency to attack especially away from home. Creative freedom cannot be low for the whole team. If playing with a 442 or a really attacking 424, then you need to deploy direct passing and reasonable amounts of CF.

I'm currently using this with my really poor poor Methyr Tydfil side who have beaten 2 League 1 clubs and line themselve with 4th round tie with Leicester.

[fg]

crazy gra

if i played with d-line something about 8 and my 2 Dcs have cd 5 it is dangerous? Becouse i worry that they are not atacking oposition?

[simmorespondero]

Sorry if this is a dumb question or has already been explained, but what is:

FCd

and

"DCs: Mentality/Passing = 6/14

FBs: Mentality/Passing = 10/10"

what do the figures represent - is this the number of clicks on the slider.

and: wwfan - is there a glossary of all the terms and abgreviations you use in your document/guide?

[Bademesteren]

Originally posted by simmorespondero:

Sorry if this is a dumb question or has already been explained, but what is:

FCd

and

"DCs: Mentality/Passing = 6/14

FBs: Mentality/Passing = 10/10"

what do the figures represent - is this the number of clicks on the slider.

It is...

[Asmodeus]

Yeah- furthest to the left being "1."

"FCd" refers to the deeper striker- hence the lower mentality.

[supersaint]

Ok, so Ive finished the first season of testing now.

The first 32 matches went well, the mirroring of CD and D-L seemed to work the way I thought it should. Most teams had problems finding a way past my DMC and DCs, because they now stayed more in position, than they did before.

After these matches I went to my girlfriend, and with only the demo at hand, I decided to start a game with Southampton, just to see if it worked just as well there. Apart from the lack of pace, which caused some problems, it seemed to work there too.

Encouraged by the results,I decided to try wwfan's 6-tactics style with this mirroring included, for the last 16 matches(playoffs included).

My set-up looks like this:

Home v The 3-3-2-1-1

Mentality: RoT

Width: 17

Time Wasting: 3

Farrows: Long on wingers, short on FBs and MC

Barrows: None

Sarrows: None

FWRs: Often for all except DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 3

D-Line: 3

CD for Defenders: DCs 17, FBs 15, DMC 17

CD for Attackers: FCs 7, MC 15, wingers 9

CF for Defenders: DCs 4, FBs 5, DMC 5

CF for Attackers: FCs 7, MC 7, wingers 13

Counter-Attack: No

Offside Trap: No

Home v Defensive Systems

Mentality: RoT

Width: 15

Time Wasting: 5

Farrows: Long wingers, Short MC

Barrows: None

Sarrows: None

FWRs: Often for all, except DCs (rarely), FC(mixed)

Tempo: 5

D-Line: 5

CD for Defenders: DCs 15, FBs 13, DMC 15

CD for Attackers: FCs 8 MC 13, wingers 9

CF for Defenders: DCs 5 FBs 5, DMC 7

CF for Attackers: FCs 7,MC 9 wingers 7

Counter-Attack: No

Offside Trap: No

Home v Normal Systems

Mentality: RoT

Width: 12

Time Wasting: 8

Farrows: Short on wingers

Barrows: None

Sarrows: None

FWRs: Mixed for all, except DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 8

D-Line: 8

CD for Defenders: DCs 12, FBs 10, DMC 12

CD for Attackers: FCs 7, MC 13, wingers 9

CF for Defenders: DCs 5, FBs 5, DMC 7

CF for Attackers: FCs 7, AMC 7, wingers 7

Counter-Attack: No

Offside Trap: No

Away v Normal Systems

Mentality: RoT

Width: 8

Time Wasting: 12

Farrows: Short on wingers

Barrows: None

Sarrows: None

FWRs: Mixed for all except DMC and DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 12

D-Line: 12

CD for Defenders: DCs 8, FBs 10, DMC 8

CD for Attackers: FCs 8, MC 13, wingers 9

CF for Defenders: DCs 5, FBs 5, DMC 7

CF for Attackers: FCs 7, MC 7, wingers 7

Counter-Attack: Yes

Offside Trap: No

Away v Attacking Systems

Mentality: RoT

Width: 5

Time Wasting: 15

Farrows: None

Barrows: None

Sarrows: FCs

FWRs: Mixed for all except wingers (often), DMC and DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 15

D-Line: 15

CD for Defenders: DCs 5, FBs 10, DMC 5

CD for Attackers: FCs 7, MC 13, wingers 9

CF for Defenders: DCs 5, FBs 5, DMC 10

CF for Attackers: FCs 9, MC 9, wingers 9

Counter-Attack: Yes

Offside Trap: No

Away v Ultra Attacking Systems

Mentality: RoT

Width: 3

Time Wasting: 17

Farrows: MC

Barrows: Short on wingers

Sarrows: FCs

FWRs: Often for all except DMC, FBs & DCs (rarely)

Tempo: 17

D-Line: 17

CD for Defenders: DCs 3, FBs 13, DMC 3

CD for Attackers: FCs 9, MC 13, wingers 13

CF for Defenders: DCs 5, FBs 5, DMC 7

CF for Attackers: FCs 9, MC 9, wingers 9

Counter-Attack: Yes

Offside Trap: No

Things to notice:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI> Fullbacks CD is hugely experimental, as Im trying to find out how to best defend against crosses when defending narrow/wide.

<LI> FWR are a bit different from wwfans setup, also because Im trying to find the right balance

<LI> CF is also something that Im trying to get the most out of, it seems that pairing this with passing isnt that effective any more(for me at least)

<LI> The tactic used against the 3-3-2-1-1 is also used against 4-5-1 with Farrows, but then with Barrows on the FB

<LI> I havent implemented the Offside Trap yet, because of my past experience with it. Maybe time to do it now?

<LI> Tactics have been switched everytime the AI has changed their tactic to one that is within another category

Ok, so what about the results then?

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">

SA=Shot accuracy(OT/SH)

GPSOG= Goals per shot on goal(GOALS/OT)

HOME W D L SH OT POSSESSION PASSING CROSSING TACKLING HEADING GOALS SA GPSOG

Before 60% 27% 13% 9,75 4,88 49,00% 67,63% 33,88% 62,31% 53,31% 1,47 50% 29,00%

After 88% 12% 0% 8,88 3,75 47,88% 63,25% 42,50% 62,00% 47,00% 1,63 42,25 43,33%

AWAY

Before 47% 27% 27% 8,13 3,94 49,63% 63,94% 35,88% 67,50% 54,94% 1,80 48,00% 37,00%

After 38% 50% 13% 10,00 3,50 48,00% 61,00% 43,00% 72,00% 51,00% 0,75 35,00% 21,00%

</pre>

This is of course not enough matches to say something definitive about a 6-tactics system, but some things stands out for me:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI> Possession and tackling is almost the same after as before

<LI> Number of created chances stays almost the same, whilst the shot accuracy has gone down dramatically. Most likely because of more players on long shots

<LI> Goals per shot on goal has improved very much at home, but gone down away. Again long shots, more hasty finishing away than at home

<LI> Number of goals have increased at home and decreased away.

<LI> Extremely strong at home, whilst lack of ability to get a winner away. Lots of 0-0 draws.

It seems more important than ever to keep an eye on the AI and the tactical changes they do, and that doing it the way wwfan suggested is the way to go. I am gonna continue using this tactics for the first season up in Premier League, doing some minor changes to see if I can improve the things that Im not happy about. Mainly I want to get more possession, better passing, more shots on goal and more goals.