Ajax System for FM2007 – AFC Ajax – 1990s

[Marz]

Latest and hopefully the last Ajax System download for FM07 and FM08, roll on FM9

The FM07, FM08 tactics work with FM09

[ALEXANDER999]

Hey Marz,

Which one do you suggest to try out on a demo game with FM9?

I have started a game with Marseille(since we cant have Ajax !!!)

I think the OM players might work well with the system --

Just want to know which team (if any you are trying out the tactic on the demo)

Cheers mate

[Marz]

Just want to know which team (if any you are trying out the tactic on the demo)

Barcelona, Milan or Real Madrid

I haven’t decided yet will start demo tomorrow, day off work . Going to try a few different starting positions:-

SL S SR

AM

MC MC

DMC

DL DC DR

Wingers from AML and AMR, No 10 from MC with F-arrow, maybe even the No4 from DC with an arrow forward.

Should be interesting to see if the full-backs position themselves good defensively.

[ALEXANDER999]

@ Marz,

I am going back to FM08 --I enjoyed the flowing of the tactic more and miss playing with Ajax --I tried a game with marseille --and I was disapponted a lot of injuries and the tactic cant work --getting frustrated ...Hopefully if you manage to make the tactic work when the game is released ..I will give it a try ...So Marz I want to thank you for getting me hooked on the actic and I am off to FM08 and into the 2009/2010 season with Ajax.

Cheers Mate

[ALEXANDER999]

hI MARZ,

I went back at playing FM8 -found on the editor forums - a World Super League DB that has Ajax in and that is where I will occupy my time till FM9 is introduced.

I will try out the latest tactic on this DB and give you some updates - Was really disapponted with FM9 Demo --

Cheers Mate

[Marz]

Was really disapponted with FM9 Demo --

I haven’t tried it that much, hopefully will have some FM09 content in a new thread some time next week.

[Marz]

Few changes to FM07, FM08 tactic:-

I decreased the tempo by either -1 or -2, the result is that players mainly the MLC-8 MRC-6 and Halfbacks (5 & 2) have more time to get into wide positions.

Also increased CF (creative freedom) by +2, the wingers (11&7) and halfbacks should be on CF12.

Also being trying the more attacking holding midfield player with FWR (forward runs) set to mixed, instead setting his mentality to the first attacking set (very player dependent). This is again to make sure that there is linking between the halfbacks and wingers. But sometimes that needs to be reversed to normal mentality (can be left of course) and FWR often.

Also been playing a high defensive line, to push the opposition into their half. The result is that possession in a lot of games is heavily in my favour (even against teams like Milan, Man Utd, PSV).

[wwfan]

Out of interest, Marz, how do you set your Ajax team up? We've experimented with two Ajax formations in Beta testing, one the recent 3-4-3 (although I believe they are playing a 4-3-3 nowadays?) and one with the classic total football shape of the 70s, which we translated thus:

SW

DR

DL

DMC

MC

MC

AMC

FR

FC

FL

Do you see that as being an accurate translation? Hopefully so, as it was working quite well.

[Marz]

Out of interest, Marz, how do you set your Ajax team up?

Currently in FM07:-

DC

DC

DC

DMC

MC

MC

AMC

FR

S

FL

I have read or heard somewhere that the marking/closing down has improved in the ME (match engine). So it might be possible to play the wide defenders from DR and DL. Here in theory I see as problem as they should play very narrow as fullbacks but the Wingers need to play as wide as possible (at the moment the only tool we have is team width).

Another improvement are that defenders especially central are now more influenced by attacking mentality and FWR (forward runs). Might try the DMC (No4) from DC with attacking mentality etc.

We've experimented with two Ajax formations in Beta testing, one the recent 3-4-3 (although I believe they are playing a 4-3-3 nowadays?)

Sorry but what do you mean by the recent 3-4-3?

Most of the professional side of the club play 4-3-3 mainly. But the Ajax System still gets used at youth level due to its demand on players. The Ajax first team played it sometimes when it gave them a tactical advantage (but not under Van Basten yet).

the classic total football shape of the 70s, which we translated thus:

SW

DR

DL

DMC

MC

MC

AMC

FR

FC

FL

Do you see that as being an accurate translation? Hopefully so, as it was working quite well.

The little I know about total football would suggest that it’s correct (not sure if they played with a SW and DMC or two DC‘s). I think the main ploy, of positional interchanges within build-up/establishment of play/attack cant be replicated in FM07 or FM08 (not sure about FM09 haven’t test that yet).

This is in Rinus Michels own book hope it helps:-

“4:3:3 was the basic organizational form, from which I often chose to play the tactical variation 4:2:4. An extra forward would take the place of the attacking midfield player.”

So basically mainly the attacking variant of the 433, not the defensive one many teams play at the moment.

[Mizta05]

Cant wait for an ajax tactic for fm09!!! Hope it is being developed!

[Marz]

Cant wait for an ajax tactic for fm09!!! Hope it is being developed!

Currently looking to buy a new Core i7 PC so minimum would be 2-3 weeks unfortunately, due to build and delivery time; and that is if I order within the new week.

In the mean time I will look to work on the db which should then be ready for when the new pc arrives. Only hold up here is that I want to know if there’s a new data update coming soon; before I waste my time on editing the db. So I might start writing down some ideas for the rewrite of the original CM03/04 Ajax post.

[wwfan]

Sorry but what do you mean by the recent 3-4-3?

Very similar to your layout. From my research, the Total Football formation narrowed and flattened by the 90s, which led to something similar to the 3-4-3 you described.

[Marz]

Very similar to your layout. From my research, the Total Football formation narrowed and flattened by the 90s, which led to something similar to the 3-4-3 you described.

Total Football is not a formation, its more of a concept/strategy that can be applied to many different formations. In the past 424, 433, Ajax System, etc; this is were the confusion lies.

I don’t think that Total football was played past the 88 success of the national side, or at least not to the same extend as in the 70s.

[quantez3]

total football is quite the opposite of ajax 94/95 where as Van Gaal had specific roles for each position.

[fluffychazza]

also, Total football is to do, alot, with the closing down when not in possession of the ball. A lot of it is about controlling space in the game.

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

When you are playing away I understand you drop your d- line along with the mentalities of your two mc"s, how far/deep have you been dropping your dline?

[Marz]

Marz:

When you are playing away I understand you drop your d- line along with the mentalities of your two mc"s, how far/deep have you been dropping your dline?

So far I haven’t dropped my defensive-line. But yes the idea was that if I need to drop the D-L then I would have to adjust, the MC mentality the range I like to use is 10-14. At the moment I'm trying FWR (forward runs) mixed, with one MC at the first notch of attacking mentality and the other at 14 (with the DMC also at 14). I’m also trying the Wingers FWR on rarely again (but mentality 10).

There are many things that influence how much you can force the opponent into their half. But the match engine instructions are vital, closing down their whole backline and wide players, and tight marking on their 1 or 2 strikers. I also still use the show onto foot to try to force the opponent full-backs passes inside. Might release another tactic update for FM07/08 (but some changes are already FM09 specific).

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Are you messing with width or tempo at all for tougher opponents or when playing away?

So far I haven’t dropped my defensive-line. But yes the idea was that if I need to drop the D-L then I would have to adjust, the MC mentality the range I like to use is 10-14. At the moment I'm trying FWR (forward runs) mixed, with one MC at the first notch of attacking mentality and the other at 14 (with the DMC also at 14). I’m also trying the Wingers FWR on rarely again (but mentality 10).

There are many things that influence how much you can force the opponent into their half. But the match engine instructions are vital, closing down their whole backline and wide players, and tight marking on their 1 or 2 strikers. I also still use the show onto foot to try to force the opponent full-backs passes inside. Might release another tactic update for FM07/09 (but some changes are already FM09 specific).

[Marz]

Marz:

Are you messing with width or tempo at all for tougher opponents or when playing away?

Width never; although I probably should. As for tempo its not specific to away or home/easy or strong team. I change tempo to what I feel is best during the match.

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

have you ever tried one or both of the wingers running from a wide position into the box instead of crossing?

Width never; although I probably should. As for tempo its not specific to away or home/easy or strong team. I change tempo to what I feel is best during the match.

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Do you currently take charge of the reserve and youth team or do you have your Ass man do this?

[Marz]

Marz:

have you ever tried one or both of the wingers running from a wide position into the box instead of crossing?

I tried that as a default. I still use that sometimes, as some wingers can't cross or the No 9 & 10 aren’t good in the air.

Sometimes its also useful to set RWB (run with ball) on mixed for players who arn't good at dribbling; or if the opponent’s full-back is simply better. It then helps to have the midfielder (8 or 6) on that side on TTB (try through balls) often (others thing need to be taken into account too).

I always take care of the under19's and reserve team; unless they play against Ajax 1.

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

When looking at opposition players to close down _ do you look at there pace? - and if they are quick do you still set them to be closed down?

So far I haven’t dropped my defensive-line. But yes the idea was that if I need to drop the D-L then I would have to adjust, the MC mentality the range I like to use is 10-14. At the moment I'm trying FWR (forward runs) mixed, with one MC at the first notch of attacking mentality and the other at 14 (with the DMC also at 14). I’m also trying the Wingers FWR on rarely again (but mentality 10).

There are many things that influence how much you can force the opponent into their half. But the match engine instructions are vital, closing down their whole backline and wide players, and tight marking on their 1 or 2 strikers. I also still use the show onto foot to try to force the opponent full-backs passes inside. Might release another tactic update for FM07/09 (but some changes are already FM09 specific).

[Marz]

Marz:

When looking at opposition players to close down _ do you look at there pace? - and if they are quick do you still set them to be closed down?

The opponents defenders should be closed down regardless off how fast they are (I'm going to experiment with tight marking on the opponents wide defenders). Bearing in mind that if you play against a team who don't build from the back don't waste energy of your front 3/4 on that concept (this also results in their defenders being closer to your front players).

On a side note, don't look at pace only, look at all their fitness attributes (as a minimum, FM08/09 manual are good at describing the individual stats).

With most league matches now I don't bother looking at all as my team is very close to the peak of their potential (in terms of first team players). But I do check the opponent front players (strikers and wide front players) as this defines the defensive line which has a effect on a lot of aspects of the system:-

If they are very slow compared to your defenders and you can play in their half, things like having both your midfielders (8&6) on forward runs often is possible.

(They might have a fast attack but a slow defence, so might themselves play with a very low defensive line.)

For more serious matches, PSV, Champions League, European Super Cup, World Club Cup I do look at each player (might sound time consuming but after a while you will naturally get better and quicker) this helps in building up a theoretic picture of the player and the opponents initial line-up. Which can then have a knock-on effect on your match selection/strategy/team-talk.

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

many great points - many thanks!

The opponents defenders should be closed down regardless off how fast they are (I'm going to experiment with tight marking on the opponents wide defenders). Bearing in mind that if you play against a team who don't build from the back don't waste energy of your front 3/4 on that concept (this also results in their defenders being closer to your front players).

On a side note, don't look at pace only, look at all their fitness attributes (as a minimum, FM08/09 manual are good at describing the individual stats).

With most league matches now I don't bother looking at all as my team is very close to the peak of their potential (in terms of first team players). But I do check the opponent front players (strikers and wide front players) as this defines the defensive line which has a effect on a lot of aspects of the system:-

If they are very slow compared to your defenders and you can play in their half, things like having both your midfielders (8&6) on forward runs often is possible.

(They might have a fast attack but a slow defence, so might themselves play with a very low defensive line.)

For more serious matches, PSV, Champions League, European Super Cup, World Club Cup I do look at each player (might sound time consuming but after a while you will naturally get better and quicker) this helps in building up a theoretic picture of the player and the opponents initial line-up. Which can then have a knock-on effect on your match selection/strategy/team-talk.

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

On scouting players - what are the minimum stats you are looking for in your youth or reserve players that you or your staff scout?

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Just to clarify: when closing down the defenders are you only closing down the center backs or the two full backs also (along with show onto other foot?)

[Marz]

Marz:

On scouting players - what are the minimum stats you are looking for in your youth or reserve players that you or your staff scout?

Internet problems at the moment, will answer this when the connection is stable again.

Marz:

Just to clarify: when closing down the defenders are you only closing down the center backs or the two full backs also (along with show onto other foot?)

The whole backline of the opponent (vs 442 DR DC DC DL), along with showing them (the fullbacks) inside.

[Ilich]

Almost incredible.

After been trying since the game was released all the 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-3-3 tactics that i was able to download in this forums, after created another 4 tactics by myself, spending hours...with no success at all...finally i download the ajax tactic (IMO the most unreal tactic for modern football)...and it works great on FM09. I've won my last 8 matches with Man City....

I can't understand this game...

Regards

[crazyscotsman]

marz:

any info on my scouting question>

Internet problems at the moment, will answer this when the connection is stable again.

The whole backline of the opponent (vs 442 DR DC DC DL), along with showing them (the fullbacks) inside.

[grimness]

I've started playing little with FM09 using version 2.5 and noticed that no.9 moves aside to make space for no.10. However since no.10 plays deeper than no.9 there is empty space between no.9 and one of the wingers and no.10 isn't joining attack that fast to fill this gap.

Since I prefer no.9 to play in the middle I pulled no.10 back to the central MC position and increased mentality to the maximum. Result was that no.10 was looking for space and had it. AI centerbacks were having fun with Huntelaar and fullbacks were marking my wingers. Aisatti as my no.10 opened up where needed and was changing sides, most of the time he was free to receive the ball.

Defensively he wasn't returning much deeper then he did when positioned as AMC and was defending in line with no.6 and no.8.

Also I've been playing with Libero settings as he often overlaped no.10 when using default 2.5. Changing his forward runs to mixed or just lowering his creativity and mentality slightly he pushed forward but still was behind no.10. This allowed no.6 and no.8 to move slightly to the side and cover the space behind wingers when needed. However they weren't doing that when Libero was on default settings and when he stormed forward they were holding their positions.

Goalkeeper's RWB should be put to mixed as he tries acting like Higuita, and no it isn't scorpion kick

Fullbacks have RWB on mixed as Marz mentioned before.

[miller6]

Started a game in FM 09 using version 2.5 and sold Rommedahl, loaned out Cvitanich as imho they don't suit this tactic. I only bought in Belgium international Gil Swerts to strengthen the central midfield. The first part of the season was a struggle with string of games that would go wwl or wdl and was about 7th at christmas. Then in January I was forced to sell my first choice dc Vermaelen for 5 mill to Lyon. I bought in Ramon a young Brazilian DC from AZ. In the 2nd half of the season the side has really started to fire and I have currently hit top spot in the league with 7 games to go. Both Heerenveen and PSV are on the same points but I'm leading on goal difference. Roda JC and Feyenoord are 2 points back so it will be a 5 way fight for the title.

Goalscorers

Huntelaar 23

Enoh 12

Bakircioglu 11

Suarez 8

Aissati 6

Goosens 4

Swerts 4

Assists

Donald 9

Goosens 9

Swerts 9

Bakircioglu 7

Huntelaar 7

Suarez 6

Gabri 6

Enoh 4

Anyone who is playing a game with version 2.5 should try Enoh at AMC even though he has low creativity as he is a beast at getting headed goals.

[Marz]

marz:

any info on my scouting question>

Marz:

On scouting players - what are the minimum stats you are looking for in your youth or reserve players that you or your staff scout?

Its depends of the position(s) I intend to fill. Currently still playing FM07 (hoping to get a new rig in January/February) and there aren’t that many players with 4 star plus that are found anyways.

I scout for U18 in the various regions and then look at players with 4 star (potential) and above. With U22 for the top competition in that region. I’ll be back in January (holiday) with stats that are and are not needed for the specific positions.

I've started playing little with FM09 using version 2.5 and noticed that no.9 moves aside to make space for no.10. However since no.10 plays deeper than no.9 there is empty space between no.9 and one of the wingers and no.10 isn't joining attack that fast to fill this gap.

Since I prefer no.9 to play in the middle I pulled no.10 back to the central MC position and increased mentality to the maximum. Result was that no.10 was looking for space and had it. AI centerbacks were having fun with Huntelaar and fullbacks were marking my wingers. Aisatti as my no.10 opened up where needed and was changing sides, most of the time he was free to receive the ball.

Defensively he wasn't returning much deeper then he did when positioned as AMC and was defending in line with no.6 and no.8.

I’m pleased that 2.5 works this well for so many people in FM09 (done a few minor adjustments as the wingers where playing to deep etc; more in January). Thanks for positing your experimentation with the No 10 from MC. Looking forward to trying that myself. Does it still push the No 8 and 6 slightly wider?

Also I've been playing with Libero settings as he often overlaped no.10 when using default 2.5. Changing his forward runs to mixed or just lowering his creativity and mentality slightly he pushed forward but still was behind no.10. This allowed no.6 and no.8 to move slightly to the side and cover the space behind wingers when needed. However they weren't doing that when Libero was on default settings and when he stormed forward they were holding their positions.

Goalkeeper's RWB should be put to mixed as he tries acting like Higuita, and no itisn't scorpion kick

Fullbacks have RWB on mixed as Marz mentioned before.

There will be quite a few things that need to be changed from 2.5 as it wasn’t really made for FM09.

Started a game in FM 09 using version 2.5 and sold Rommedahl, loaned out Cvitanich as imho they don't suit this tactic. I only bought in Belgium international Gil Swerts to strengthen the central midfield. The first part of the season was a struggle with string of games that would go wwl or wdl and was about 7th at christmas. Then in January I was forced to sell my first choice dc Vermaelen for 5 mill to Lyon. I bought in Ramon a young Brazilian DC from AZ. In the 2nd half of the season the side has really started to fire and I have currently hit top spot in the league with 7 games to go. Both Heerenveen and PSV are on the same points but I'm leading on goal difference. Roda JC and Feyenoord are 2 points back so it will be a 5 way fight for the title.

Anyone who is playing a game with version 2.5 should try Enoh at AMC even though he has low creativity as he is a beast at getting headed goals.

Rommedahl is speed merchant without technique (in the game anyways).

Cvitanich could be trained as a no10 (I think he had good teamwork and work rate).

[miller6]

Rommedahl in my game only has the pace and acceleration which are both outstanding. He has quite poor crossing,tackling,long shots,passing,decisions,technique and off the ball which are all important imho.

Cvitanich in my game he has 12 for workrate and teamwork and even lower for creativity and flair so I have plenty of better options in Enoh,Aissati and Suarez.

[Murchadh]

I have started to experiment big time with the Ajax system in FM09 and have had some truly encouraging results so far. Playing as Arsenal I am faced a lot with teams employing a lone striker for which I set up left and right fullbacks, a single DC playing back (I am trying to train a couple of players to play sweeper) and a DMC playing forward. This generally works like a bomb defensively. The DC tends to intercept the vast majority of balls played forward towards the enemy striker and because of the high line, when balls do get through, by the time he (the striker) gets further forward he has nowhere to go because he gets closed down in a 2v1 situation almost always. (Setting up the keeper to sweep helps a lot.) The one problem I have not yet fixed is when faced with two attackers, generally in a flat 442. I have only had two games like this so far for which I pulled back the DMC into a DC playing forward position. The key (I think) lies with individual instructions (closing down seems to be important) for these and maybe one of the MCs but I haven't yet figured it out. I don't know why but the lone DC marking the lone Striker is unbelievably effective but when they each have to mark an opponent it doesn't work half as well.

Having said that, against lone striker formations the system unlocks defenses fantastically, specifically speaking about those pesky "parkers". Most recently I played Chelsea (they use a lone striker formation) away in a league cup game in which I picked under 19s in most of the positions to give them game time. They picked a full strength lineup. I held them 1-1 until the 120th minute when Drogba bagged the second. Not bad at all. What I find impressive about this whole system is the TYPE of chances being created ... even though they are not always CCCs I get a lot of opportunities where the ball carrier has to beat one marker and the goalie instead of having to deal with loads of players behind the ball.

The two biggest factors in my success so far with this system is closing down and tackling intensity. The central MCs are putting in huge numbers of tackles and not only winning them but coming away with the ball, thereby securing a lot of ball in advantageous positions. What's more, I notice that the Fullbacks are intercepting loads of balls, completely cutting of their wing supply.

[Murchadh]

UPDATE:

Just had a CL league game against Kiev where I moved the DC into a Sweeper position after going 1-0 up and lo and behold....20 interceptions and a man of the match performance with the fullbacks making 15 each. I am liking...

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Any tips on scouting youngsters?

Its depends of the position(s) I intend to fill. Currently still playing FM07 (hoping to get a new rig in January/February) and there aren’t that many players with 4 star plus that are found anyways.

I scout for U18 in the various regions and then look at players with 4 star (potential) and above. With U22 for the top competition in that region. I’ll be back in January (holiday) with stats that are and are not needed for the specific positions.

I’m pleased that 2.5 works this well for so many people in FM09 (done a few minor adjustments as the wingers where playing to deep etc; more in January). Thanks for positing your experimentation with the No 10 from MC. Looking forward to trying that myself. Does it still push the No 8 and 6 slightly wider?

There will be quite a few things that need to be changed from 2.5 as it wasn’t really made for FM09.

Rommedahl is speed merchant without technique (in the game anyways).

Cvitanich could be trained as a no10 (I think he had good teamwork and work rate).

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

Are you still around? Hopeing you can give me some tips on how you scout players?

Marz:

Any tips on scouting youngsters?

[Marz]

Sorry I have not being very active, probably wont change till March/April. I want to play FM09. But can’t play the type of career game till I get a better pc. Which at the moment is hindered by the fact that a Core i7 system currently costs a fortune.

I’ll still keep an eye on the forum and this post and try to help with theory regarding the Ajax System.

total football is quite the opposite of ajax 94/95 where as Van Gaal had specific roles for each position.

I wouldn’t say it’s the opposite. The main differences are probably the change from 4 at the back to 3 and no positional interchanges as a tactical ploy.

also, Total football is to do, alot, with the closing down when not in possession of the ball. A lot of it is about controlling space in the game.

Very good point and something that all attacking teams should do, else they will mostly fail in not only the match but long term objectives (winning leagues & cups). Or they are wrongly described as an attacking team (attacking formation).

Marz:

On scouting players - what are the minimum stats you are looking for in your youth or reserve players that you or your staff scout?

Sorry been a while since you asked this. As for stats it was mostly a case that I only ever got 2/3 players (for each position) a year through scouting with sufficient potential worth considering. I tend to look mainly at mental stats, so start of with personality (unambitious, unprofessional etc are not good additions to the team). Then the mental stats of the player, key stats being determination, work rate, bravery, aggression in that order. At the same time I tend to glance at technical and physical stats, (key stats for position) crossing etc for a winger.

Stats tend to increase by around 3 inside one season/year (if the player is not injured, has problems with training, adjusting to the area etc). This can then give you an idea of how good the player can become.

Another key stat for defenders besides concentration is composure; I try to get the first team players up to 14 in this (obviously ability and potential is lost on finishing and long shoots which they don’t need for their role). With the Ajax System your trying to play in the opponents half. This then means that your defenders play an important role in build-up, establishment of play and sometimes even penetration. So defenders with composure who don’t panic are required. When buying players for position 1, 2&5, 3&4, I look for players who have high composure stat already for their age/ability. A No4 with goal scoring ability from long range is a bonus; and sometimes match saver.

This question brings me back to this:-

TIPS which stands for: -

T – technique (technical stats)

I - intelligence & insight (some stats under player mentality)

P - personality (again some stats under the player mentality)

S – speed & mobility (physical stats)

IPS are difficult to influence (this applies to FM and real life) then T, so try scouting for players who already have high stats for IPS.

Technique and passing being important stats for all Ajax players (defenders & goalkeepers included) as the system demands good passing and technique.

Intelligence & insight can be improved, but it’s harder to influence then T, under van Gaal a lot of position games where practised (tactics and attacking [defending, which improves concentration is also important] in FM).

Personality is almost impossible to improve or influence, but some stats do go up when players age.

Speed and mobility, Ajax players are well known to be very good in terms of agility, balance and acceleration. In theory a player who is very agile and has very good balance requires less energy when moving, so loses less condition over a match (whole season); not sure if this is also true for FM09.

Almost incredible.

After been trying since the game was released all the 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-3-3 tactics that i was able to download in this forums, after created another 4 tactics by myself, spending hours...with no success at all...finally i download the ajax tactic (IMO the most unreal tactic for modern football)...and it works great on FM09. I've won my last 8 matches with Man City....

I can't understand this game...

Regards

I wouldn’t say it unrealistic, just very daring/risky to play this system in modern football.

I've started playing little with FM09 using version 2.5 and noticed that no.9 moves aside to make space for no.10. However since no.10 plays deeper than no.9 there is empty space between no.9 and one of the wingers and no.10 isn't joining attack that fast to fill this gap.

Since I prefer no.9 to play in the middle I pulled no.10 back to the central MC position and increased mentality to the maximum. Result was that no.10 was looking for space and had it. AI centerbacks were having fun with Huntelaar and fullbacks were marking my wingers. Aisatti as my no.10 opened up where needed and was changing sides, most of the time he was free to receive the ball.

Defensively he wasn't returning much deeper then he did when positioned as AMC and was defending in line with no.6 and no.8.

Also I've been playing with Libero settings as he often overlaped no.10 when using default 2.5. Changing his forward runs to mixed or just lowering his creativity and mentality slightly he pushed forward but still was behind no.10. This allowed no.6 and no.8 to move slightly to the side and cover the space behind wingers when needed. However they weren't doing that when Libero was on default settings and when he stormed forward they were holding their positions.

Goalkeeper's RWB should be put to mixed as he tries acting like Higuita, and no it isn't scorpion kick 

Fullbacks have RWB on mixed as Marz mentioned before.

Thanks you for posting your FM09 tweaks. Like I previously mentioned the download was not tested in FM09. But was aimed at that. Any input like the post above are very welcome. Especially as I wont be able to test in FM09 myself till hopefully march/april.

Rommedahl in my game only has the pace and acceleration which are both outstanding. He has quite poor crossing,tackling,long shots,passing,decisions,technique and off the ball which are all important imho.

Cvitanich in my game he has 12 for workrate and teamwork and even lower for creativity and flair so I have plenty of better options in Enoh,Aissati and Suarez.

Yes like I said “speed merchant without technique”. But maybe still handy as a backup right-winger for the starting season.

Due to the lack of quality wingers in the initial Ajax squad I would use Suarez in that department. Enoh I think lacked finishing required of the No 10, in the Ajax System, this is where Cvitanich would come in as he’s a natural striker (think he will get improved in the next data-update). Obviously Aissati can also play the No10, or could be used as the more attacking/creative player in the No 8&6 role.

I have started to experiment big time with the Ajax system in FM09 and have had some truly encouraging results so far. Playing as Arsenal I am faced a lot with teams employing a lone striker for which I set up left and right fullbacks, a single DC playing back (I am trying to train a couple of players to play sweeper) and a DMC playing forward. This generally works like a bomb defensively. The DC tends to intercept the vast majority of balls played forward towards the enemy striker and because of the high line, when balls do get through, by the time he (the striker) gets further forward he has nowhere to go because he gets closed down in a 2v1 situation almost always. (Setting up the keeper to sweep helps a lot.) The one problem I have not yet fixed is when faced with two attackers, generally in a flat 442. I have only had two games like this so far for which I pulled back the DMC into a DC playing forward position. The key (I think) lies with individual instructions (closing down seems to be important) for these and maybe one of the MCs but I haven't yet figured it out. I don't know why but the lone DC marking the lone Striker is unbelievably effective but when they each have to mark an opponent it doesn't work half as well.

Having said that, against lone striker formations the system unlocks defenses fantastically, specifically speaking about those pesky "parkers". Most recently I played Chelsea (they use a lone striker formation) away in a league cup game in which I picked under 19s in most of the positions to give them game time. They picked a full strength lineup. I held them 1-1 until the 120th minute when Drogba bagged the second. Not bad at all. What I find impressive about this whole system is the TYPE of chances being created ... even though they are not always CCCs I get a lot of opportunities where the ball carrier has to beat one marker and the goalie instead of having to deal with loads of players behind the ball.

The two biggest factors in my success so far with this system is closing down and tackling intensity. The central MCs are putting in huge numbers of tackles and not only winning them but coming away with the ball, thereby securing a lot of ball in advantageous positions. What's more, I notice that the Fullbacks are intercepting loads of balls, completely cutting of their wing supply.

Also thank you for your input into this thread, I’m really looking forward to trying the Ajax System in FM09.

Just wondering what’s tactical set-up you have for your Goalkeeper. “Setting up the keeper to sweep helps a lot.” Rushing out stats on the player being a must IMO.

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

welcome back and thanks for the info\

Sorry I have not being very active, probably wont change till March/April. I want to play FM09. But can’t play the type of career game till I get a better pc. Which at the moment is hindered by the fact that a Core i7 system currently costs a fortune.

I’ll still keep an eye on the forum and this post and try to help with theory regarding the Ajax System.

I wouldn’t say it’s the opposite. The main differences are probably the change from 4 at the back to 3 and no positional interchanges as a tactical ploy.

Very good point and something that all attacking teams should do, else they will mostly fail in not only the match but long term objectives (winning leagues & cups). Or they are wrongly described as an attacking team (attacking formation).

Sorry been a while since you asked this. As for stats it was mostly as case that I only ever got 2/3 players a year through scouting with sufficient potential worth considering. I tend to look mainly at mental stats, so start of with personality (unambitious, unprofessional are not good additions to the team). Then the mental stats of the player, key stats being determination, work rate, bravery, aggression in that order. At the same time I tend to glance at technical and physical stats, crossing etc for a winger.

Stats tend to increase by around 3 inside one season/year (if the player is not injured, has problems with training, adjusting to the area etc). This can then give you an idea of how good the player can become.

This question brings me back to this:-

TIPS which stands for: -

T – technique (technical stats)

I - intelligence & insight (some stats in under player mentality)

P - personality (again some stats under the player mentality)

S – speed & mobility (physical stats)

IPS are difficult to influence (this applies to FM and real life) then T, so try scouting for players who already have high stats for IPS.

Technique and passing being important stats for all Ajax players (defenders & goalkeepers included) as the system demands good passing and technique.

Intelligence & insight can be improved, but it’s harder to influence then T, under van Gaal a lot of position games where practised (tactics and attacking [defending, which improves concentration is also important] in FM).

Personality is almost impossible to improve or influence, but some stats do go up when players age.

Speed and mobility, Ajax players are well known to be very good in terms of agility, balance and acceleration. In theory a player who is very agile and has very good balance requires less energy when moving, so loses less condition over a match (whole season); not sure if this is also true for FM09.

I wouldn’t say it unrealistic, just very daring/risky to play this system in modern football.

Thanks you for posting your FM09 tweaks. Like I previously mentioned the download was not tested in FM09. But was aimed at that. Any input like the post above are very welcome. Especially as I wont be able to test in FM09 myself till hopefully march/april.

Yes like I said “speed merchant without technique”. But maybe still handy as a backup right-winger for the starting season.

Due to the lack of quality wingers in the initial Ajax squad I would use Suarez in that department. Enoh I think lacked finishing required of the No 10, in the Ajax System, this is where Cvitanich would come in as he’s a natural striker (think he will get improved in the next data-update). Obviously Aissati can also play the No10, or could be used as the more attacking/creative player in the No 8&6 role.

Also thank you for your input into this thread, I’m really looking forward to trying the Ajax System in FM09.

Just wondering what’s tactical set-up you have for your Goalkeeper. “Setting up the keeper to sweep helps a lot.” Rushing out stats on the player being a must IMO.

[Murchadh]

Just wondering what’s tactical set-up you have for your Goalkeeper. “Setting up the keeper to sweep helps a lot.” Rushing out stats on the player being a must IMO.

The problem with the "Rushing out" bit is that the number of quality GKs in the game that are good at true "rushing out" (and as a result have good outfield ratings) can be counted on one hand. Good luck signing any of them after you have identified them.

Thus I am stuck playing a "shot stopper" with fairly good pace as a "sweeper keeper".

I have tried the following with success:

Mentality: 3 notches higher than the lowest outfield player

Passing: Low direct coupled with Mixed TBs, Mixed Crossing and Mixed Long Shots ....this sometimes results in actual through balls played way up the field towards a winger running in open space but also results in pointless kicks towards the targetman that have a low to zero percentage of success. In "sweeping play" this results in the keeper making fairly good medium range forward passes towards a wide player when sweeping towards one side. I have also tried Ultra short passing which then does exactly what it says, HOWEVER....the keeper has made stupid mistakes at times when employing ultra short due to (I guess) a lack of players in range. Ultra short works good at keeping possession at the back, but going forward I am not sure it is the best option.

Forward Runs: OFTEN coupled with OFTEN RWB. The GK comes out to intercept balls but since I am employing a supremely effective Sweeper currently, I hardly ever see the Keeper actually venturing outside the box to intercept balls (the sweeper is really too good at dealing with those situations). The keeper though is good at covering the whole of the area (whenever the sweeper is out of range). What I do get is the keeper receiving backpasses near the corners of the area (running on to them) and then running out of the area with the ball (sometimes quite far up the pitch (always towards wide) before making a forward pass towards a wide player in front of him. This running has so far not resulted in a single error or even anything approaching an attacking situation for the opposition as a result.

Closing down: I have this set on just short of "Whole pitch"

[crazyscotsman]

Marz:

When you load up a game initially to play how many leagues/divisions and how many and what countries are you playing with? Also, do load players from other countries and if so which ones?

thanks

[grimness]

Marz, I haven't played much with Ajax System since my post. Very soon I got back to default settings (however RWB lowered as you said) and the only tweak is moving wingers back to the AML and AMR positions with pushing mentality to 20. Seems that is working OK but to be honest it should be tested.

Most important thing was for players to settle within formation. Then tweaks became less important, as there wasn't much difference between my first tweaks and this later one. My first tweaks maybe helped players to retain their formation and settle in faster but as I said no major difference when reverting to defailt settings. I haven't played and top-class side yet.

Also this is all from playing with 9.0.1, when I try it with latest patch I'll throw in my experience.

[Marz]

The problem with the "Rushing out" bit is that the number of quality GKs in the game that are good at true "rushing out" (and as a result have good outfield ratings) can be counted on one hand. Good luck signing any of them after you have identified them.

Thus I am stuck playing a "shot stopper" with fairly good pace as a "sweeper keeper".

By rushing out I mean just the GK stat plus stats like anticipation, decision etc. That are need for a keeper to be effective, if you play a high line. Other things I look for in GK’s are aerial ability as the main attacks come down the flanks; in the form of crosses.

I myself prefer someone like Van der Sar, as Stekelenburg is still with Ajax that position shouldn’t be a problem.

As for outfield stats, passing (hidden) and creativity are important, and it’s a question on training the current professionals. And shaping the youth players in the right way.

I have tried the following with success:

Mentality: 3 notches higher than the lowest outfield player

Passing: Low direct coupled with Mixed TBs, Mixed Crossing and Mixed Long Shots ....this sometimes results in actual through balls played way up the field towards a winger running in open space but also results in pointless kicks towards the targetman that have a low to zero percentage of success. In "sweeping play" this results in the keeper making fairly good medium range forward passes towards a wide player when sweeping towards one side. I have also tried Ultra short passing which then does exactly what it says, HOWEVER....the keeper has made stupid mistakes at times when employing ultra short due to (I guess) a lack of players in range. Ultra short works good at keeping possession at the back, but going forward I am not sure it is the best option.

Forward Runs: OFTEN coupled with OFTEN RWB. The GK comes out to intercept balls but since I am employing a supremely effective Sweeper currently, I hardly ever see the Keeper actually venturing outside the box to intercept balls (the sweeper is really too good at dealing with those situations). The keeper though is good at covering the whole of the area (whenever the sweeper is out of range). What I do get is the keeper receiving backpasses near the corners of the area (running on to them) and then running out of the area with the ball (sometimes quite far up the pitch (always towards wide) before making a forward pass towards a wide player in front of him. This running has so far not resulted in a single error or even anything approaching an attacking situation for the opposition as a result.

Closing down: I have this set on just short of "Whole pitch"

Thanks for the info, sure it will help people currently playing the Ajax System in FM09.

I had a test match with FM09 Ajax vs. den Haag and noticed that the settings I had as default in my download are to high for the GK (due to the improvement in the match engine from FM07 to FM09; let alone FM08 to FM09).

RWB on mixed should be fine; often really is too much of a good thing for the GK.

I tried mainly:-

S(wide) S S(wide)

MC MC MC

DMC

DC DC DC

The No4 (DMC) and No 10 (central MC) with FWR often. I think like someone mentioned in an earlier post the No4 bombed forward to much so I reduced his mentality to 10 (seemed to work better).

I tried a few things like playing the backs from DL, DR, and also having the holding players at ML, MR (again to wide in my opinion should be played from MC as standard). But all those things need more testing.

Marz:

When you load up a game initially to play how many leagues/divisions and how many and what countries are you playing with? Also, do load players from other countries and if so which ones?

thanks

Currently still playing FM07:-

Holland (all leagues), Italy (to Serie B), then Spain (all); all manageable.

Following leagues just the top league and not manageable:-

England, France, Germany, Belgium, Australia, South Africa, USA, Denmark, Finland, Norway, Sweden, Portugal, Romania, Argentina and Brazil

So Holland and their neighbours Belgium, the top leagues in Europe (Portugal goes together with Spain really), the Scandinavian leagues, Romania (wanted a few more eastern block countries but the game would have run to slow). And then a country/league from each continent; the big 2 from South America.

As for loading players/staff from countries:-

Holland (as not all players/staff are included even on large database), Surinam (was hoping for some Dutch/Surinam youths like in the past Rijkaard, Davids, Seedorf etc).

Then the top African Nations:-

Nigeria, Ghana, Cameroon, Ivory Coast, Senegal and Gambia.

For FM09 I want to run most league (Asia just China and South Korea, in Europe countries like Wales will be cut), with all their leagues manageable (which then makes clubs have player and staff). But I’ll probably turn match detail to “None” for countries like China. I’ll probably load the top western African players/countries; along with Holland and Surinam.

A lot of leagues which my current PC can’t handle, so I’m in FM07 at the moment. L

Marz, I haven't played much with Ajax System since my post. Very soon I got back to default settings (however RWB lowered as you said) and the only tweak is moving wingers back to the AML and AMR positions with pushing mentality to 20. Seems that is working OK but to be honest it should be tested.

Not quite sure where I have said “RWB lowered”, please quote or copy and paste. Just wondering in which context I have said that.

I played the wingers from AML and AMR in my test game; with FWR often. 1 game isn’t really long enough to see the advantages and disadvantages (due to various reasons). Pressing and defensive positioning was the main problem in FM07 and FM08. And in that test game they stood close to the oppositions WB’s (defensive position from goal kicks).

The main thing that would concern me is setting any player to 20 in mentality. In terms of positional play that might be correct, but the mentality should in theory affect all aspect of the players behaviour:-

Passing, shooting, pressing, movement, dribbling etc

The key being passing. I have always look at passing and mentality like this (in its simplest form):-

Players (say a holding midfielder) with mentality set to 10 (through balls mixed/rarely), will try to pass 25% forwards, 50% square and 25% backwards. (Obviously not to the exact percentage, position on the field [tactics], player ability and current match situation will and other things will effect these stats.)

Players (say a holding midfielder) with mentality set to 20 (through balls mixed/rarely), will try to pass 50% forwards, 25% square and 25% backwards.

(Obviously not to the exact percentage, position on the field [tactics], player ability and current match situation will and other things will effect these stats.)

If a forward pass is not on the player should look square, if that pass is also not on then backwards. A player with mentality 20 (very high attacking mentality) will try to force the forward pass more (then the same player in the same situation with mentality set to 10) so potentially more prone to losing possession.

Wingers losing the ball shouldn’t be so much of a problem as they should be high up the field and wide, this then limits potential danger. For the No 10 playing from MC I’m not sure; testing would be needed.

Most important thing was for players to settle within formation. Then tweaks became less important, as there wasn't much difference between my first tweaks and this later one. My first tweaks maybe helped players to retain their formation and settle in faster but as I said no major difference when reverting to defailt settings. I haven't played and top-class side yet.

Also this is all from playing with 9.0.1, when I try it with latest patch I'll throw in my experience.

I experienced similar, better teams will always beat lesser opponents unless there is a problem. Playing the top-class sides highlights potential problems more, due to the fact that better players are better at tacking advantages of mistakes.

Another thing I have though of since the last posts is, that playing the No10 from MC could place to much space between that player and the No9 (should be 5-10 meters; when defending). In a fast counter the No9 can always combine with the wingers.

Theoretically playing the No 10 from MC (with FWR often a must), it should push the holding midfielders (8&6 wider). Both when attacking and when defending, this then solves several problems; but probably creates some new ones . I’m going to try that in FM07, hope you guys and gals will look out for that in FM09.

One other thing that didn’t work in early version of FM07 was playing the No4 from DC with FWR often (and high normal to attacking mentality). This should work in FM09 from what I have heard as they rebuild the match engine 13 times (and this change to DC behaviour was specifically mentioned). This would then enable the backs to be played from DL and DR without leaving the DC vulnerable.

[grimness]

Sorry: I meant latest default tactics with fullbacks on RWB on mixed.

[Marz]

No problem.

[Marz]

I should have my new pc in mid-march, already witting up a few things about general coaching like pre-season stuff. So I am hopping that I will have a downloadable tactic(s) by April. With a new Ajax thread for FM09 onwards already in the works; as of this week:D.

Here is what I've been trying to get to work in FM07 (FM09 tweak a bit further down):-

S

AML AMC AMR

MC MC MC

DC DC DC

GK

AMC, with a backwards arrow.

Central MC, with a backwards arrow.

The main concept (third man principle) I am trying is that both the holding midfielders (on forward runs often), join in the attack and get into the box to overload the opposition defence. While this is happening the 3 defenders (No 5, 3 & 2) cover left, centre and right with the central midfielder (No4) covers the area ahead of the defence. This then ensures that the No 8 and 6 can go forward and be the 3rd men.

In FM09 I think the No10 would have to play from MC (forward runs often). And the No 4 (also with forward runs often) from DMC.

[Marz]

If you need help with the Ajax System (FM07, FM08, FM09), please go to this thread:-

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=109325