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Can anyone please help me solve a problem for some kids with learning difficulties?


Mr Useless

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I apologise if I am a bit long-winded in explaining this, but please do bear with me.

BACKGROUND: A few years ago I began trying to teach four kids with learning difficulties how to play Football Manager 2005. Although I have bought newer versions for myself, with the kids we have continued to use the 2005 version because they have developed an understanding of using it, and believe me that is quite an achievement! They come around to my house each week, and for an hour or so we play the game. I guide them a bit, but I leave them to make all the decisions between them and do all the input. We play one week in the season each week, to keep up with where we would be in real life - so we are currently up to the Boxing Day matches in 2009. After enormous difficulties originally, they have made great progress in learning the basics, and it has definitely helped them with their learning capacity generally.

THE PROBLEM: Their best (and favourite) player is a goalkeeper they bought last season. He has a relatively small Mimimum Release Clause in his contract, and he is so good that various top clubs are interested in him and there was a real danger they would meet this small price and buy him in the forthcoming January transfer window. To avoid this, about a month ago I suggested we offered him a much improved contract, but with a much larger (£25m) MRC. After some negotiation he accepted this and the boys were delighted. But this was when the big problem started. Either due to an input error that none of us noticed (but I think that's unlikely) but more probably some systems error, when the new contract was completed it contained the much higher salary but actually REDUCED the MRC to even lower than it had previously been. The only solution appeared to be to go back to square one and to offer him yet another new contract, again on a higher salary, with yet another big signing fee, and with the large MRC we had intended. Unfortunately the salary he now wants is higher than the Board will allow us to meet, and he we can't get his agreement. The Transfer Window is now only about a week away, and I fear we will lose him for a pittance. The boys will be devastated if this happens, especially as the circumstances are so unfair. One of them was actually crying because of it.

THE SOLUTION???? I'd really be so grateful if someone can come up with one. I'm not a technical person. I have occasionally read on this Forum about using an editor, but I have no idea what that means or what an editor is. Is there a way we can get into the system and edit the MRC to the figure that had been agreed? (I don't consider that to be cheating, because I'm sure a system fault has caused this). If not, does anyone have any further ideas.

Thank you so much in advance for any help.

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There may be an older version of FMM (football manager modifier) that you could download, and thus edit the 'keeper's contract, thats the only way around it I think. I'll have a look and see if I can point you in the right direction :thup:

edit: Think this link is to an editing program that should help... http://downloads.soccergaming.com/download.php?id=00009890

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I don't think there will be on here due to the forums moving software a couple of years ago. I suggest to search the unofficial fansites for one because they are likely to have one.

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So, not to sound pretentious, but this is right up my alley. I have been a Special Education teacher for years.

First, consider the cognitive level of the students you are working with. This will frame your solution. If they are high-functioning, simply explain to them that sometimes computers don't recognize the inputs we thought we made and this leads to what we commonly refer to as glitches. This will give them a 'real world' example of how computers are still only machines that require constant input and consideration from their human users. Ask them what they think a plausible solution would look like, given you cannot recreate the same game. This will help them develop problem-solving skills that they can apply to 'real world' scenarios. I realize this solution does not allow for you to continue to follow the game-a-week model based on the calendar you had been using. However, it does present you with a real teachable moment to illustrate seldom-found 'real world' examples to the students in an attempt to 'cement' the abstract for them. If the students are not high-functioning, attempt to use the real-time editor, as mentioned.

Second, ask the students (regardless of their cognitive level) why they think the computer 'lost' or 'corrupted' the information. You might be surprised at their responses and this can help them process through problem-solving.

Third, and most important, ask the students how they would feel about updating to a newer version of the game. They might be willing to take on more than you realize. Naturally, there will be a stiff learning curve, but that is where you come in to guide them through it.

If you need more info or more specifics, hit me back here or PM me. Good luck. BTW, give them the benefit of the doubt; they are probably more intellectual than anyone gives them credit for.

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I really can't tell you how grateful I am for that.

Could I ask for just a little more help. I've downloaded the editor, but I've never used one in my life! I'm really sorry to live up to my user name, but could you (or anyone) give me a step by step idiot's guide as to how I proceed from here. Non-technical language would help (I confess to being in my fifties and like many of my generation, anything involving a computer remains a mystery)

Thank you so much in advance to anyone who can get me through this

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There's also another version of the editor here...

http://members.chello.nl/j.vos93/mcfm_0_5_0.zip

Just in case the other one doesn't work with your savegame. Quick note - always back up your save before editing it. In fact, given the amount of hard work and progress make 2 or 3 backups!

And better make them hard back-ups on a CD, USB or other storage device. Just in case.

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So, not to sound pretentious, but this is right up my alley. I have been a Special Education teacher for years.

First, consider the cognitive level of the students you are working with. This will frame your solution. If they are high-functioning, simply explain to them that sometimes computers don't recognize the inputs we thought we made and this leads to what we commonly refer to as glitches. This will give them a 'real world' example of how computers are still only machines that require constant input and consideration from their human users. Ask them what they think a plausible solution would look like, given you cannot recreate the same game. This will help them develop problem-solving skills that they can apply to 'real world' scenarios. I realize this solution does not allow for you to continue to follow the game-a-week model based on the calendar you had been using. However, it does present you with a real teachable moment to illustrate seldom-found 'real world' examples to the students in an attempt to 'cement' the abstract for them. If the students are not high-functioning, attempt to use the real-time editor, as mentioned.

Second, ask the students (regardless of their cognitive level) why they think the computer 'lost' or 'corrupted' the information. You might be surprised at their responses and this can help them process through problem-solving.

Third, and most important, ask the students how they would feel about updating to a newer version of the game. They might be willing to take on more than you realize. Naturally, there will be a stiff learning curve, but that is where you come in to guide them through it.

If you need more info or more specifics, hit me back here or PM me. Good luck. BTW, give them the benefit of the doubt; they are probably more intellectual than anyone gives them credit for.

Thanks for that advice which I will consider very carefully. And thanks for the offer at the end. I have spoken to the kids before about updating, but they are reluctant - such a lot of hard work has gone into reaching the position they are in, which included a promotion, that they are understandably reluctant to start again

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Mcfm... ah the memories...

From what I can remember, you have to make sure the game is in uncompressed mode (under 'Preferences'). Start your game, then the editor. Search for the player of concern. His contract should show his MRC, which you can then alter. Job done, save the game. Remember to backup your game before doing so in case of another glitch.

If you are at your PC, why not try doing so right now. Any queries, we will be able to solve on the spot.

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There's also another version of the editor here...

http://members.chello.nl/j.vos93/mcfm_0_5_0.zip

Just in case the other one doesn't work with your savegame. Quick note - always back up your save before editing it. In fact, given the amount of hard work and progress make 2 or 3 backups!

Thanks for that too. I'm afraid to confess my computer knowledge doesn't extend to making back-ups.

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Mcfm... ah the memories...

From what I can remember, you have to make sure the game is in uncompressed mode (under 'Preferences'). Start your game, then the editor. Search for the player of concern. His contract should show his MRC, which you can then alter. Job done, save the game. Remember to backup your game before doing so in case of another glitch.

If you are at your PC, why not try doing so right now. Any queries, we will be able to solve on the spot.

Thanks John. I've now loaded the game (which takes 3 attempts as the disk is now so old!) What worries me before I proceed further is that under preferences I can't see any option mentioning "uncompressed mode"

What should I be looking for?

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I really can't tell you how grateful I am for that.

Could I ask for just a little more help. I've downloaded the editor, but I've never used one in my life! I'm really sorry to live up to my user name, but could you (or anyone) give me a step by step idiot's guide as to how I proceed from here. Non-technical language would help (I confess to being in my fifties and like many of my generation, anything involving a computer remains a mystery)

Thank you so much in advance to anyone who can get me through this

Erm, you'll have to give me time to reload FM05 onto my system :o

When are they round next?

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Erm, you'll have to give me time to reload FM05 onto my system :o

When are they round next?

How very kind. They won't come until next week now, because of Christmas, so no immediate rush.

Perhaps you can look at the query I raised above about "uncompressed mode"?

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I apologise if I am a bit long-winded in explaining this, but please do bear with me.

BACKGROUND: A few years ago I began trying to teach four kids with learning difficulties how to play Football Manager 2005. Although I have bought newer versions for myself, with the kids we have continued to use the 2005 version because they have developed an understanding of using it, and believe me that is quite an achievement! They come around to my house each week, and for an hour or so we play the game. I guide them a bit, but I leave them to make all the decisions between them and do all the input. We play one week in the season each week, to keep up with where we would be in real life - so we are currently up to the Boxing Day matches in 2009. After enormous difficulties originally, they have made great progress in learning the basics, and it has definitely helped them with their learning capacity generally.

THE PROBLEM: Their best (and favourite) player is a goalkeeper they bought last season. He has a relatively small Mimimum Release Clause in his contract, and he is so good that various top clubs are interested in him and there was a real danger they would meet this small price and buy him in the forthcoming January transfer window. To avoid this, about a month ago I suggested we offered him a much improved contract, but with a much larger (£25m) MRC. After some negotiation he accepted this and the boys were delighted. But this was when the big problem started. Either due to an input error that none of us noticed (but I think that's unlikely) but more probably some systems error, when the new contract was completed it contained the much higher salary but actually REDUCED the MRC to even lower than it had previously been. The only solution appeared to be to go back to square one and to offer him yet another new contract, again on a higher salary, with yet another big signing fee, and with the large MRC we had intended. Unfortunately the salary he now wants is higher than the Board will allow us to meet, and he we can't get his agreement. The Transfer Window is now only about a week away, and I fear we will lose him for a pittance. The boys will be devastated if this happens, especially as the circumstances are so unfair. One of them was actually crying because of it.

THE SOLUTION???? I'd really be so grateful if someone can come up with one. I'm not a technical person. I have occasionally read on this Forum about using an editor, but I have no idea what that means or what an editor is. Is there a way we can get into the system and edit the MRC to the figure that had been agreed? (I don't consider that to be cheating, because I'm sure a system fault has caused this). If not, does anyone have any further ideas.

Thank you so much in advance for any help.

What a heartwarming story :thup: Genuinely made me smile. I really hope you can sort this (it should be do-able), and well done to the people who have helped here :) It shows we do have a nice community here :thup:

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What a heartwarming story :thup: Genuinely made me smile. I really hope you can sort this (it should be do-able), and well done to the people who have helped here :) It shows we do have a nice community here :thup:

Thank you for that.

And I absolutely echo the last sentence.

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Right, Mr Useless

Having looked this all up, and not to be offensive in anyway, if I get you to zip up and send me the save file, along with who you need changing, I'll do it from there as it'll take far too long for you to do it.

The main problem is that you need to uninstall .NET framework and then install an earlier version.

Basically, the saved game editor was created using an older version of Windows and much like a video is still perfectly functional, it won't fit in a DVD player :p

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Right, Mr Useless

Having looked this all up, and not to be offensive in anyway, if I get you to zip up and send me the save file, along with who you need changing, I'll do it from there as it'll take far too long for you to do it.

The main problem is that you need to uninstall .NET framework and then install an earlier version.

Basically, the saved game editor was created using an older version of Windows and much like a video is still perfectly functional, it won't fit in a DVD player :p

That's not offensive, I promise you. That is incredibly kind.

This is a kind of embarrassing question - How do I "zip up and send you the save file"?

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You'll need to download WinRar or WinZip on a trial.

Click on "English 32 bit" below 15th December, then click "run".

There should be an option somewhere called "compress" or similar. Click it, then locate the file. That will create a .rar file of the save.

You'll need him to give you his email. Create an email to him, but then, before you save it, attach the file. There should be an option to attach it somewhere near the top, below subject, but it depends who your email provider is. Remember to select the .rar not the .fm.

Edit: or the above!

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You'll need to download WinRar or WinZip on a trial.

Click on "English 32 bit" below 15th December, then click "run".

There should be an option somewhere called "compress" or similar. Click it, then locate the file. That will create a .rar file of the save.

You'll need him to give you his email. Create an email to him, but then, before you save it, attach the file. There should be an option to attach it somewhere near the top, below subject, but it depends who your email provider is. Remember to select the .rar not the .fm.

Edit: or the above!

I use Rapidshare a lot, for the distribution of perfectly legal mixtapes to friends. I find it one of the best.

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What a heartwarming story :thup: Genuinely made me smile. I really hope you can sort this (it should be do-able), and well done to the people who have helped here :) It shows we do have a nice community here :thup:

This.

Mr Useless, you sir are a legend. Fair play to you. If you ever want to share how the boys are doingwith the game I for one would be interested to read it.

Best of luck to them.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Some people asked for an update on this.

Deisler26 very kindly tried to edit the MRC for us. But sadly, for reasons that are too technical for the likes of me to understand, he couldn't manage to do it. However, he kindly experimented with some other ideas of offering the keeper a much higher signing on fee and clean sheet bonus. And we also reduced the length of the contract by a year. I explained all this to the boys when they next came round. They agreed to increase the offer (I always leave the final decisions up to them - which sometimes, especially tactical changes in the middle of matches, can take ages before they reach agreement!!!) And I'm pleased to say the keeper has signed a new contract with the MRC increased from the erroneous £7.5m to the correct £26m. The boys all yelled out a loud collective cheer when he agreed. They were absolutely delighted. Furthermore, all the clubs that were interested in buying him have now lost interest at the higher MRC.

It's cost our club (unfairly!) an arm an a leg to achieve this, since we're now paying him a salary of about £6k per week more than we should have been (to say nothing of another large signing on fee) but the boys fully accept that might affect their ability to make further signings as our finances might not stretch to the salary needed. But that has been a good lesson for them. It is a concept they would never have grasped when we first started this venture a few years ago.

Thank you everyone for all the support you gave in trying to solve this, particularly of course Deisler26. But lots of you tried to help, and we were all very grateful.

I do have another couple of issues which I might seek advice on at some time in the future, but I won't burden people with them so soon after the last time.

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Some people asked for an update on this.

Deisler26 very kindly tried to edit the MRC for us. But sadly, for reasons that are too technical for the likes of me to understand, he couldn't manage to do it. However, he kindly experimented with some other ideas of offering the keeper a much higher signing on fee and clean sheet bonus. And we also reduced the length of the contract by a year. I explained all this to the boys when they next came round. They agreed to increase the offer (I always leave the final decisions up to them - which sometimes, especially tactical changes in the middle of matches, can take ages before they reach agreement!!!) And I'm pleased to say the keeper has signed a new contract with the MRC increased from the erroneous £7.5m to the correct £26m. The boys all yelled out a loud collective cheer when he agreed. They were absolutely delighted. Furthermore, all the clubs that were interested in buying him have now lost interest at the higher MRC.

It's cost our club (unfairly!) an arm an a leg to achieve this, since we're now paying him a salary of about £6k per week more than we should have been (to say nothing of another large signing on fee) but the boys fully accept that might affect their ability to make further signings as our finances might not stretch to the salary needed. But that has been a good lesson for them. It is a concept they would never have grasped when we first started this venture a few years ago.

Thank you everyone for all the support you gave in trying to solve this, particularly of course Deisler26. But lots of you tried to help, and we were all very grateful.

I do have another couple of issues which I might seek advice on at some time in the future, but I won't burden people with them so soon after the last time.

Fantastic mate, glad it worked out and that they got to keep their GK :thup:

It is amazing aswell to think that FM is actually helping children with learning difficulties progress. I think it was quite ingenious of you to try this :thup::thup::thup:

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I apologise if I am a bit long-winded in explaining this, but please do bear with me.

BACKGROUND: A few years ago I began trying to teach four kids with learning difficulties how to play Football Manager 2005. Although I have bought newer versions for myself, with the kids we have continued to use the 2005 version because they have developed an understanding of using it, and believe me that is quite an achievement! They come around to my house each week, and for an hour or so we play the game. I guide them a bit, but I leave them to make all the decisions between them and do all the input. We play one week in the season each week, to keep up with where we would be in real life - so we are currently up to the Boxing Day matches in 2009. After enormous difficulties originally, they have made great progress in learning the basics, and it has definitely helped them with their learning capacity generally.

THE PROBLEM: Their best (and favourite) player is a goalkeeper they bought last season. He has a relatively small Mimimum Release Clause in his contract, and he is so good that various top clubs are interested in him and there was a real danger they would meet this small price and buy him in the forthcoming January transfer window. To avoid this, about a month ago I suggested we offered him a much improved contract, but with a much larger (£25m) MRC. After some negotiation he accepted this and the boys were delighted. But this was when the big problem started. Either due to an input error that none of us noticed (but I think that's unlikely) but more probably some systems error, when the new contract was completed it contained the much higher salary but actually REDUCED the MRC to even lower than it had previously been. The only solution appeared to be to go back to square one and to offer him yet another new contract, again on a higher salary, with yet another big signing fee, and with the large MRC we had intended. Unfortunately the salary he now wants is higher than the Board will allow us to meet, and he we can't get his agreement. The Transfer Window is now only about a week away, and I fear we will lose him for a pittance. The boys will be devastated if this happens, especially as the circumstances are so unfair. One of them was actually crying because of it.

THE SOLUTION???? I'd really be so grateful if someone can come up with one. I'm not a technical person. I have occasionally read on this Forum about using an editor, but I have no idea what that means or what an editor is. Is there a way we can get into the system and edit the MRC to the figure that had been agreed? (I don't consider that to be cheating, because I'm sure a system fault has caused this). If not, does anyone have any further ideas.

Thank you so much in advance for any help.

Its tales like this that really put our whining about 'superkeepers' etc in perspective. Good on you MrUseless for an imaganitive way of helping kids with difficulties. Now next step. Get the government on the phone and have FM in Every School in Britain lol.

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The problem with the edit was that the RTE for FM05 requires .NET Framework 1.1 to work. Now, Vista is up at 3.something, so I had to roll back to 1.1.

Once rolled back, it wouldn't accept the file, compressed or not. Nothing I could do to change that fact :(

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i'd love to be able to follow this story each week with the kids. MAybe they could write a 4 line update each week as part of their learning to keep everyone in community up to speed with how they are getting on?

You're a legend for helping these children out, I wish I had your patience! :)

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The problem with the edit was that the RTE for FM05 requires .NET Framework 1.1 to work. Now, Vista is up at 3.something, so I had to roll back to 1.1.

Once rolled back, it wouldn't accept the file, compressed or not. Nothing I could do to change that fact :(

I'm embarrassed to confess that if you had written that backwards in Hindustani I would have understood just as much. LOL. But can I thank you publically for all your kind efforts.

And sydfc4ever, I'm certainly no legend, and probably get as much enjoyment out of their progress as they do. I'll try and update from time to time. We've got a "match on TV" coming up next week. I rather dread those because whereas we normally select the extended highlights version, when a match is on TV we play the Full Match (to replicate the fact that the public are watching the full match - well, I think that was the logic) which takes bloody ages, especially with the frequent pauses to debate tactical changes!

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I'm embarrassed to confess that if you had written that backwards in Hindustani I would have understood just as much. LOL. But can I thank you publically for all your kind efforts.

:o:o:o

Aww, shucks! :o Any time you need help, just PM!

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Thank you for the very kind (and undeserved) comments.

The boys are really excited about a match we've got this midweek. They are through to the semi-finals of the Carling Cup, and this will be the second leg, away to Chelsea. We rather blew our chances in the first leg. Chelsea kindly fielded a team of mostly reserves, and we were 1-0 up and threatening to get two or three. Then for some strange reason one of our centre backs had some sort of brainstorm. He was standing with the ball near the penalty spot in our area, and he could have booted it clear, made a pass out to the wings or even back to our keeper. But instead, he just continued to stand there with the ball. He made himself a cup of tea, read a newspaper, phoned a chum on his mobile.....everything but actually clear the ball. So a Chelsea striker walked forward, took the ball off his toes, and slipped it past our keeper. (I think that's the sort of thing that's less likely to happen with more recent versions of the game). The boys may have learning difficulties, but they've certainly learned some words even I'd not heard, and they screamed abuse at the screen! After that, Chelsea shut up shop, and comfortably held on for a 1-1 draw.

Personally I think we'll have problems overcoming that in the second leg, but the boys feel very excited - and strangely optimistic - about it. I'll let you know!

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Love this story, but just had one question. If the boys play one week in the game to mirror real life, what do they do when their players go on holiday? Do they just play for 10 mins that week? Or do they stretch it out scouring the database for new players?

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Mr. Useless, I'm not sure if that exists at all, but after having read what you are doing I must say that you would deserve some kind of FM Forums Award for your dedication to yout kids.

As my mother works as a teacher for the same kind of kids as well, I can understand how they are and what task you are facing.

Seriously, this is brilliant. :thup:

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Read through this thread. Fantastic work Mr Useless at trying to help kids learn about life through FM. :)

I'm a student teacher hoping to teach HS maths, but I've handled young children at school and at summer camps before and understand how challenging it is. :thup:

Much less you're dealing with kids with learning disabilities while I just dealt with normal and very hyperactive children. :D

Oh, and beat Chelsea in the 2nd leg! :D

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Read through this thread. Fantastic work Mr Useless at trying to help kids learn about life through FM. :)

I'm a student teacher hoping to teach HS maths, but I've handled young children at school and at summer camps before and understand how challenging it is. :thup:

Much less you're dealing with kids with learning disabilities while I just dealt with normal and very hyperactive children. :D

Oh, and beat Chelsea in the 2nd leg! :D

Good luck on your student teaching! I have been teaching for eight years now...

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