The Target Man

[Johnny Ace]

I'm Birmingham City with the perfect Target Man - Nikola Zigic but he seems useless!!

Playing 4-4-2(little Creative Freedom, plenty of crossing) all crosses set to his head but half the time the crosses don't go to him, they go to Seb Larsson or he's out of position & no where near the ball that's crossed in

Anyone with a successful Target Man got any tips?

[Johnny Ace]

Just played Blackpool at home won 4-1

Zigic did naff all, he held it up well & laid a pass in for Gardner to score but that was about it (didn't get the assist as their CB miscontrolled the interception)

Only 7 headers all game, Jerome had 8 & he only played 60 minutes

Even focused passing down the wings for the second half

[drunkrob]

What are your wide players crossing attributes? Are they floating crosses, drilling them or mixed? Where is Zigic positioned when the players cross? If too deep did you try increasing is mentality? Is he running from deep?

[Johnny Ace]

What are your wide players crossing attributes? Are they floating crosses, drilling them or mixed? Where is Zigic positioned when the players cross? If too deep did you try increasing is mentality? Is he running from deep?

They're not bad, wide men are Larsson (15) & McFadden (13), full backs are encouraged to run forward and put crosses in Gardner (11) & Ridgewell (12)

Half the time he seems to be on the edge of the box, whereas Larsson, Jerome & McFadden are in there for the headers. His mentality is the same as Jerome's & lower than Larsson's & Mcfadden's .

He's set as Run From Deep Sometimes. Maybe worth setting that to Often? Worth a try, Jerome's, McFadden's & Larssons are set to Often

[tottivillarossi]

I couldn't get the best out of Heskey as a Target Man, but I tried playing him as a Deep-Lying Striker (Attack), and he scored one and set up another.

[philly_flyer10]

Target man is totally broken, I have a 6ft 8" forward and Ive yet to see a ball up to his head.

[Johnny Ace]

I changed his running from Deep to Often & still no change. It was at home against Liverpool (who are top) & he did nothing, infact most of the crosses seemed to be going to Benitez (his strike partner) who's heading isn't a strong point.

Goal kicks all seemed to be going to Benieiz too when both their mentalities are the same, surely the keeper would aim for the 6 ft 8 Target man rather than his 5ft 6 partner? I'm not blaming bugs or anything here, I must be doing something wrong with my set up

That's 6 games for Zigic this season, 0 assist, 0 goals

I do play a short passing game so I'm going to give lumping the ball up field a go, it's my last option

My speedy striker tactic is getting me goals (Jerome - Benitez), Zigic is my highest valued value & top earner so tempted just to flog him off in January if I've not sorted this by January

[philly_flyer10]

I have Maierhofer and Carroll (who I spent £6m on) and he has a rating of 5.8. I said I was disappointed with his form and he said he played pretty well and now he wants to leave.

Having a big guy and using him as a target man doesnt work, neither does whipping in lots of crosses for him.

[Johnny Ace]

I have Maierhofer and Carroll (who I spent £6m on) and he has a rating of 5.8. I said I was disappointed with his form and he said he played pretty well and now he wants to leave.

Having a big guy and using him as a target man doesnt work, neither does whipping in lots of crosses for him.

Has this worked in previous Football Manager's?

Can't say I've used the Target Man role before, but seeing as I have Zigic, the ideal Target Man I thought I'd try it

I'm going to try long balling it at lunch time, or at least put the tactic together to try tonight, I'll report back

I just can't get why all my crosses all set to float in to Tareht Man & 90% of them don't go to him? Again Creative Freedom is set to very low

[ProZone]

Be careful with the team crossing instructions in the TC.

If you set your team up to Drill Crosses or Float Crosses, then look at the cross aim of your wingers and full backs, you will notice they are set to Near or Far Post or Centre.

If you leave the team crossing on Default and you have chosen a Target Man role for one of your strikers then your wingers and full backs will aim crosses to the Target Man.

At least this is how it worked on FM2010, haven't played the new game yet but I doubt it has changed in this respect.

[Johnny Ace]

Be careful with the team crossing instructions in the TC.

If you set your team up to Drill Crosses or Float Crosses, then look at the cross aim of your wingers and full backs, you will notice they are set to Near or Far Post or Centre.

If you leave the team crossing on Default and you have chosen a Target Man role for one of your strikers then your wingers and full backs will aim crosses to the Target Man.

At least this is how it worked on FM2010, haven't played the new game yet but I doubt it has changed in this respect.

Cheers mate, hadn't thought of that I'll check it over lunch

Going from memory though my Team Instructions were Float crosses & Player Instructions all crosses are set to Man

I'll double check over lunch though

[T_dizzle]

I had a great target man in FM2010. I was playing Blue Square South Level and had Julian Alsop who was dire in all other areas but good in the air. I got him to score about 20 goals in a season, mostly with his head. So the good news is that it is possible, the bad news is that I can't remember exactly how I did it and I'm experimenting to get something similar working in FM2011 with Carlton Cole.

I did play a 433 tactic with the wingers in AML and AMR positions and the target man leading the line with a target man-attack duty. I did not play direct football, but rather short pasing that was focused down the wings. Then you just need to ensure your wingers are getting the ball and crossing from the byline regularly.

Perseverance is key. It did take me about half a season to get the tactic right. You need to tinker a lot with the mentality sliders. Analyse the match stats afterwards for your wingers and ST to see where they are crossing from and where the ST is challenging for headers. You might consider looking at your MCs too to make sure they are giving enough of the ball to your wingers.

As I say, I'm trying with Carlton Cole but I don't think he is really equipped to the role. I'll look to buy a target man and work a tactic around it. 451 target man is my favourite tactic and if I can get one working soon I'll post some more details.

Good luck!

[T_dizzle]

I'll also add that I changed the dimensions of my pitch to suit my style too i.e. a wide pitch that is very short. Can't remember whether I used to float or have default crosses but just experiment between the two to find out.

[shaunwwfc]

What is the movement and creativity around this target man? I have always found that with more roaming and allot of creative freedom that when the balls are played into/at the target man with options around him that will make him bring out the best of the players around him, and vice versa. That is the way I play atm with Wolves as Kevin Doyle as target man and Ebanks Blake/Fletcher next to him as either the poacher or advanced forward. I play rigid philosophy and with 80% of the time being in control... a high defensive line, 1 ball winning MC, 1 deep lying playmaker MC, 2 wide midfielders (creative types, not proper wingers) on attack so that they ping the crosses in early but also advanced enough so they get involved in the final third. Short passing, high pressing, high creativity and high movement. It is working a treat as I speak and with this formation I have come across absolutely no problems with the target man. Give it a try.

[Johnny Ace]

Nice one T_dizzle will be interesting to hear back what you find out

Shauny 1990 - Not bad I don't think, he's got Benitez (the guy we had on loan last season, signed him for £1.7m) or Jerome up there with him, usually Larsson & McFadden on the flanks, Michel & Ferguson in the CM slots (playing a 4-4-2). Michel isn't great creatively but Ferguson has decent attack minded stats.

I do restrict Creative Freedom, I found pre season that with it allowed my players did as they fancied, long balling it & giving it away too often

I just had a quick hour to eat lunch, put a fresh tactic together & play a match. I've got Sunderland at home in the cup, we're slight favourites, media expect it to go to pens, so should be ideal as a "tester" match

For the fresh tactic I used the Wizard:

4-4-2

Balanced

Counter

Passing: Shorter

Creative Freedom: More Disciplined

Closing Down: Default

Tackling: Default

Marking: Zonal

Crossing: Float

Roaming:Stick to Position

DL: Normal (slightly more toward deep)

Width: Narrow

Tempo: Slow

Time Wasting: Normal (slightly more toward often)

Focus Passing: Down Wings (Manually changed)

Counter Attack: Yes

Play Offside: No

Foster - D

Ridgewell - Auto - Full Back

Dann - D

Johnson - D

Naughton - Auto - Full Back (Ideally would be Carr but Injured)

McFadden - A - Winger

Michel - D - Ball Winning Midfielder

Ferguson - D - Ball Winning Midfielder

Gardner - A- Winger (Ideally Larsson but also Injured, not really the best winger)

Benitez - A - Poacher

Zigic - A - Target Man

I manually changed, Focus Passing to Down the Wings, Target Man Supply to Head & changed the Fullback's crossing to Often & to Man (all other are automatically set to Man due to the Target Man)

Played the first half, full highlights

Zigic - 3 Headers, 3 Won, 1 Key

Benitez - 6 Headers, 1 Won

McFadden was getting some good balls in, but a lot of the time they went to Gardner. Most of the goal kicks were going to Benitez. I wasn't bothered about winning or losing, possession etc

But at HT it was 0-0

Bham- Sland

Shots 5 - 3

Clear Cut Chances 1-0

Poss 58% 42%

Passing 81% 69%

For the 2nd half, I switched Zigic & Benitez hoping the Goal kicks would head more toward Zigic & changed the back 4 to play more long balls. Didn't have time to watch the full 2nd half

FT 0-0

Zigic 11 Headers, 10 Won, 2 Key

Benitez 13 Headers- 3 Won, 1 Key

Bham - Sland

Shots 9-5

CCC 1-0

Poss 61% 39%

Pass 82% 65%

The idea was to restrict Sunderland's speedy forwards & counter down the flanks with my Wingers & FB's, crossing in for Zigic to either go for goal, or head it down for Benitez, didn't quite work. When I had the ball the idea was to keep the ball, pass it around, get it to the wings & supply it to Zigic.

Was pleasing that Zigic bossed the air & got 2 key headers, but I would've expected a lot less heading action for Benitez

I'll try it again tonight when I have a bit more time

[MartinGregory84]

Be careful with the team crossing instructions in the TC.

If you set your team up to Drill Crosses or Float Crosses, then look at the cross aim of your wingers and full backs, you will notice they are set to Near or Far Post or Centre.

If you leave the team crossing on Default and you have chosen a Target Man role for one of your strikers then your wingers and full backs will aim crosses to the Target Man.

At least this is how it worked on FM2010, haven't played the new game yet but I doubt it has changed in this respect.

Fully Agree with that post am using similair options with my Bradford City formation and my target man is scoring and bringing others into play.

[Johnny Ace]

Fully Agree with that post am using similair options with my Bradford City formation and my target man is scoring and bringing others into play.

Right, let me just check what you're saying

Team Crossing: Default (rather than Drill or Float)

Player Instructions - Crossing: Target Man

I'm going to try that now to see if it makes a different

Started a new game as a test to try this against the Reserves. I've saved the same just before we play so I can reload to try out tactics

Tried out what I used earlier & Zigic scored! Though not in Taget Man fashion McFadden crossed it, JEROME headed it down to Zigic to sllide in & score, Zigic had one header all game, Jerome 5.

Checked the analysis of the team's crossing post match & one of 20 or so went in his direction & hit the big oaf on the back of the head

[Johnny Ace]

Just tried that, watched all goals & crosses in the analysis

Zigic 3 headers, Jerome 6

Zigic did score two, one was from a ball crossed into him at feet, Target Man Supply is definitely to Head

??? Seriously, if Jerome was set to TM I'd be happy because that would make sense

[Johnny Ace]

Trying again, moved Zigic to the near posts for Throw Ins, set Larsson & McFadden as Support Wingers instead of Attack

Lets see how that goes...........

HT

Zigic has 3 headers that were supplied by crosses!!! He headed all 3 out of play so I've switched him to Support so he looks for Jerome rather then goal

Jerome still had 4 headers, one supplied from the left wing by Zigic (??)

The roles are set correctly

FT

Zigic 9 headers, Jerome 7, that's a first from this test

2 of those were clearances from corners, only 2 were in the box, one he headed over & one he lost out

Not quite sure what to test now ......

Starting the match with Zigic as Support

HT & he's he's had 3 headers (Jerome 0) with two of them heading in Jerome's general direction

Going to try for more Attacking 2nd half............

Set Zigic back to Attack, seems to be working he had 10 headers with Jerome 0. He scored twice....with his feet. You can't have everything I gues

[pandemonium]

It seems to me that you should be playing more direct instead of short passing and focus your play down the flanks. your best attacking threats are Zigic with the head and your wingers, so it would make sense in theory that once your team wins the balls they shouldn't pass it around to their closest teammates (short) but should try to move it up the field quickly (more direct) to either A. the head of Zigic, or B. long and wide to your wingers on the flanks. I'm not familiar with your team other than Zigic but I'm assuming they're fairly quick, so this style would complement them. As ProZone metioned, make sure crosses are directed either directly to zigic, or to the center (for this to work have Zigic' on "normal" or "cut inside" while the other striker to "move into channels". Also, if you decide to try out more direct passing, make Zigic be the player highest up the pitch (Target man with attack duty, no fwr) and the other striker as inside fwd support. This way the crosses will go to Zigic who is already high up the field and he will either knock it down to the onrushing poacher, or hold it up and wait for support to arrive from your wingers. you might have to manually set your wingers/other striker on "run from deep" often. As a general idea, pay attention to your players' mentalities to get an idea of how your team will be positioned in the field, and to their "runs from deep" and "Wide Play" to see where they will end up once your attacking moves develop.

Of course all this is theory and you'll have to test/tweak it for it based on your team to work. good luck!

[Johnny Ace]

Gonna give that a try now mate

I've taken on those points, apart from the Direct passing for now. I've saved the tactic (my 5th one tonight) so I can load it up & just change the passing next game

End of the first half, Zigic 3 headers, Jerome 4

Changed to Standard, still with the Counter Attack, Changed passing to more Direct. Changed wide men's crossing to Central & just to try something Jerome DFP - Sometimes, Zigic Often

Second half, no great change, I think this is the best I'm going to get from it, I'm getting a bit fed up of it now

Cheers for the input lads, much appreciated

I'm not 100% on what Runs From Deep means to be honest, checking around people seem to have different perceptions of it

[Johnny Ace]

Tried the tactic in my game save & 2 in 2 from Zigic with his head

[Simply... Awesome!]

Although I never personally use a "Primary Target Man", I think its important to note:

- it makes you predictable and/or limited and/or one-dimensional

- if he is effectively marked by a superior defender, a significant portion of your attacking moves will break down

- if he lacks key stats in the way he receives the ball (head/feet/run onto ball) he would not just fail but become a liability

- Probably the most commonly overlooked thing is his support. Unless he is a poacher, he would be miserably isolated, having no passing options

Infact, you could argue that having a "Primary Target Man" is more of a defensive strategy than an attacking one - which isnt necessarily a bad thing.

However, like many good tactical ideas, the LITTLE things make the BIG difference

[wwfan]

I'm not 100% on what Runs From Deep means to be honest, checking around people seem to have different perceptions of it

Runs for Deep relates to how often a player will look to advance ahead of his formation position when you are attacking. It is an absolutely pointless instruction for a Target Man, as he should always be the highest positioned player anyway.

[Johnny Ace]

Although I never personally use a "Primary Target Man", I think its important to note:

- it makes you predictable and/or limited and/or one-dimensional

- if he is effectively marked by a superior defender, a significant portion of your attacking moves will break down

- if he lacks key stats in the way he receives the ball (head/feet/run onto ball) he would not just fail but become a liability

- Probably the most commonly overlooked thing is his support. Unless he is a poacher, he would be miserably isolated, having no passing options

Infact, you could argue that having a "Primary Target Man" is more of a defensive strategy than an attacking one - which isnt necessarily a bad thing.

However, like many good tactical ideas, the LITTLE things make the BIG difference

Zigic is 6ft 7, 20 strength, 20 Jumping, 17 Heading, 17 Finishing, there aren't many Premiership defenders that won't find him a handful (Although last night's game vs Stoke IRL didn't really prove that )

In the two game saves I played Sunderland twice, one at home one in the League Cup & one away in the League

Won 3-1 at home, Benitiz, Zigic, Fahey (subbed into the game for Ferguson)

Away won 4-2 Benites 2, Zigic & Bowyer (subbed into the game for Gardner)

He does have Benitez or Jerome as his strike partner & they seem to get plenty of the action too, with McFadden & Larrson being attack minded plus Ferguson (depending on who I'm playing) getting in on the act

[Johnny Ace]

Runs for Deep relates to how often a player will look to advance ahead of his formation position when you are attacking. It is an absolutely pointless instruction for a Target Man, as he should always be the highest positioned player anyway.

Thanks

The Default Target Man instruction is set to Rarely so that makes sense

[Rubentus_Juventus]

tried Kevin Davis up front as a target man support by himself with Inside forwards supporting him of hte flanks. And he couldn't score a goal for 18 straight games! TEhn bought Christian Fabbiani in, put target man supply as mixed and has scored 7 in 13 and assisted 3 which is very decent!

[Bluebeard]

I think it will work better if you use AMR and AML as they will get to the byline better.

Remember though that someone as slow as Zigic is going to be more of a link-man/threat at set pieces than the sort who bursts into the box to finish a move off by unstoppably heading a cross home (he also has weak off the ball, positioning and work rate). You haven't bought Edin Dzeko (or Les Ferdinand). Think of him as a semi-manouverable artillery piece who can be used to auto-win the ball in the air but will ****** your team's movement. I suggest getting players around him to pick up the knockdowns. Also ensure that you match Zigic against the right DC opponent.

Incidentally I just played a match set up with a 4-4-2 and all the 'target man' options utilised as mentioned above and my target man attempted 8 headers and my shorter striker (deep-lying forward support) only attempted one, which I know was when he headed in a wide free kick for the second goal. So the target man settings worked for me with minimal fuss....

[aeroforce19]

I have the same problem with Ibrahimovic at Milan. Setting him to TM didn't give me much help but he's doing better as Complete Forward. I have Pato and Robinho pushing as inside forwards down the flanks. Can't seem to get many decent crosses in. Any idea how best to set up the crossing? I'm afraid of conceding counterattacks if my FB cross from byline

[Bluebeard]

I wouldn't worry too much about the fullbacks being out of position, I haven't been caught out yet - as I said in another thread (I think), use a DMC to cover their runs. Plus, if they are actually getting to the byline then that usually means you are playing a rubbish team who just need to be broken down.

You'll get more crosses with wingers rather than inside forwards. Your players probably suit a pacy, possibly counter-attacking game more than an 'up the wings, cross, headed goal' approach - perhaps put Ibra on mixed supply and let him hold up the ball and play the other two in with flicks etc? We aren't talking Shearer and Sutton supplied by Ripley and Wilcox here but three of the most technical players in the game, one of whom also happens to be big and strong (so keep him as a Complete Forward).

Having loaded the game, though, and checked the players out, I think this kind of strategy will be up against the fact that some key mental stats are lacking. Have you seen Robinho's and Ibra's teamwork and workrate? Yuk. At least there should be 'moments of magic' to compensate!

[kingfin47]

Nice one T_dizzle will be interesting to hear back what you find out

Shauny 1990 - Not bad I don't think, he's got Benitez (the guy we had on loan last season, signed him for £1.7m) or Jerome up there with him, usually Larsson & McFadden on the flanks, Michel & Ferguson in the CM slots (playing a 4-4-2). Michel isn't great creatively but Ferguson has decent attack minded stats.

I do restrict Creative Freedom, I found pre season that with it allowed my players did as they fancied, long balling it & giving it away too often

I just had a quick hour to eat lunch, put a fresh tactic together & play a match. I've got Sunderland at home in the cup, we're slight favourites, media expect it to go to pens, so should be ideal as a "tester" match

For the fresh tactic I used the Wizard:

4-4-2

Balanced

Counter

Passing: Shorter

Creative Freedom: More Disciplined

Closing Down: Default

Tackling: Default

Marking: Zonal

Crossing: Float

Roaming:Stick to Position

DL: Normal (slightly more toward deep)

Width: Narrow

Tempo: Slow

Time Wasting: Normal (slightly more toward often)

Focus Passing: Down Wings (Manually changed)

Counter Attack: Yes

Play Offside: No

Foster - D

Ridgewell - Auto - Full Back

Dann - D

Johnson - D

Naughton - Auto - Full Back (Ideally would be Carr but Injured)

McFadden - A - Winger

Michel - D - Ball Winning Midfielder

Ferguson - D - Ball Winning Midfielder

Gardner - A- Winger (Ideally Larsson but also Injured, not really the best winger)

Benitez - A - Poacher

Zigic - A - Target Man

I manually changed, Focus Passing to Down the Wings, Target Man Supply to Head & changed the Fullback's crossing to Often & to Man (all other are automatically set to Man due to the Target Man)

Played the first half, full highlights

Zigic - 3 Headers, 3 Won, 1 Key

Benitez - 6 Headers, 1 Won

McFadden was getting some good balls in, but a lot of the time they went to Gardner. Most of the goal kicks were going to Benitez. I wasn't bothered about winning or losing, possession etc

But at HT it was 0-0

Bham- Sland

Shots 5 - 3

Clear Cut Chances 1-0

Poss 58% 42%

Passing 81% 69%

For the 2nd half, I switched Zigic & Benitez hoping the Goal kicks would head more toward Zigic & changed the back 4 to play more long balls. Didn't have time to watch the full 2nd half

FT 0-0

Zigic 11 Headers, 10 Won, 2 Key

Benitez 13 Headers- 3 Won, 1 Key

Bham - Sland

Shots 9-5

CCC 1-0

Poss 61% 39%

Pass 82% 65%

The idea was to restrict Sunderland's speedy forwards & counter down the flanks with my Wingers & FB's, crossing in for Zigic to either go for goal, or head it down for Benitez, didn't quite work. When I had the ball the idea was to keep the ball, pass it around, get it to the wings & supply it to Zigic.

Was pleasing that Zigic bossed the air & got 2 key headers, but I would've expected a lot less heading action for Benitez

I'll try it again tonight when I have a bit more time

I know its abi late but with all your defenders lumping it up i would have fully expected benitez to have that many aerial challenges, even if they are supposed to be supplied to the target man.

Also pumping it from the back isn't going to solve the original problem of 'zigic not scoring any' might help the strike partner get a few more but thats about it.

I can tell you're a brum fan so i dont wanna start ridiculing ur side but zigic is never gonna be a prolific scorer in reality so its probably a good idea to concentrate on getting the correct strike partner to play with him and getting his role correct rather than concentrating so much effort on zigic i think.

i reckon if i was birmingham i'd try out having zigic on his own, and give him more support form the midfield. if you can be bothered trying out 3 in midfield then give that ago.

[Johnny Ace]

I can tell you're a brum fan so i dont wanna start ridiculing ur side but zigic is never gonna be a prolific scorer in reality so its probably a good idea to concentrate on getting the correct strike partner to play with him and getting his role correct rather than concentrating so much effort on zigic i think.

i reckon if i was birmingham i'd try out having zigic on his own, and give him more support form the midfield. if you can be bothered trying out 3 in midfield then give that ago.

I think I might just sell him & replace him with someone with better anticipation & work rate. Newcastle are on the verge of the drop so I'm gonna take a look at Carroll