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England - The Road to 2012 (now featuring Wayne Rooney) but not his touch

jmr

By jmr,
in Euro 2012 Forum

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Razzler

Razzler

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Scholes - I may have made the wrong decision

My thinking is just shut up. You retired, see ya, talk of coming back and you didn't want it, fine, think it would have been silly anyway, saw how he puffed in wheezed in Japan. Then he said "well, if they asked me earlier" ... yeah, ok, Paul, thanks for that. Now it's "well, if Capello asked me himself" ... grow up. You were asked, you didn't want it.

I am sure it's press asking "would you have gone if ..." and he says "maybe" but enough of this, ffs it's not the Scholes of the past we missed out on

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Ginger

Ginger

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What's the point of him coming out and saying that?

He wasn't good enough for the team, is way past his best and he decided not to go - nobody forced him to retire from international football. I just wished Carragher had stayed at home too!

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aggressive minor

aggressive minor

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End of the day the most shocking aspect was our passing (always is to be honest).

Scholes one of the best in the world for passing the ball around, keeping things ticking over, perhaps having him play deep, dictating things, could have helped us.

Biggest shame is we missed out on Scholes between say 06-08 when he was just awesome in that role.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Haha, Scholes is still miles ahead of any English midfielder with the ball at his feet.

Well as he retired from international football so it's no point wondering how about he would have played or what he would have done. He has his cracking games but he also has his games where it kind of passes him by, we have enough of that already, Fergie doesn't muller his schedule either and he'd have perhaps been playing more regularly in a week here, who knows what would have happened?

It's all by the by, as he was retired we couldn't experiment with him playing deeper, wider, further forward or upside down. We all got over it a long time ago and wanted to prolong his United career, cheers for the games.

It's the whole "I would have if only this or that" all after the fact that is annoying. We've gone from 'should have asked sooner' to 'well not the sooner thing but maybe if Capello asked me personally' .. yeah, massive difference there. I don't think we should have been running around trying to pull Carragher or Scholes out of retirement anyway, the Carragher thing made some sense cause of his covering right back and lack of options but didn't work out great

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ericcantona7

ericcantona7

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He isn't as good a Gerrard and Lampard (all round) nowadays. So yes, he wasn't good enough for the squad.

surely the same is true of Carrick? yet he was in the squad.

Scholes>>>>>>>>>>Carrick, therefore he clearly was good enough for the squad. You really would have to play 4-5-1 with Scholes though.

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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The only position Scholes could of played was Lampards but Lampard played nearly every minute in qualification and every minute at the WC. So it would of been a wasted spot hence we took Gerrard,Carrick and Milner who could cover Lampard and play other positions as well.

Of course if we ever looked like playing anything else apart from 442 then maybe. It's not that I don't think Scholes is good enough, just we didn't need him. We played 442 we had Lampard and Gerrard. Carrick was there to be defensive midfield. Just happened he eneded up dropping behind Gerrard in the defensive midifeld order. We need at least one back up defensive midfield incase Barry broke down again.

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Razzler

Razzler

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and he's not "come out and said it" Scholes is the last person in the world to go running to the media to make a fuss, he was clearly asked about it and he answered the questions honestly, what else would you have him do?

I did say I imagine it's someone asking him 'would you have gone if ...' and he said 'maybe' but I've had enough of it, of him being asked it, of stories and implications of how it could have been different and so on. I don't think I have heard Scholes speak so much in his whole career!

He's only answering questions but instead of 'they should have asked me sooner' or 'maybe ... <if Capello asked> he could have said what he said originally about it 'not being fair' to the guys that qualified and so on, he obviously has got something to say, said 'chance to play in a World Cup' or something in that article about him turning it down and that's the 'mistake', well, you had your chance, had it in 2006 too but you'd retired.

I don't think he's gone running to the press at all and I am sure it's the press trying to show how if Capello would have handled things differently we'd have had the mighty Paul Scholes back from retirement ... oh, wait, Capello's bad at handling the players and that's why they sulked ... eureka!

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ericcantona7

ericcantona7

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The only position Scholes could of played was Lampards but Lampard played nearly every minute in qualification and every minute at the WC. So it would of been a wasted spot hence we took Gerrard,Carrick and Milner who could cover Lampard and play other positions as well.

Of course if we ever looked like playing anything else apart from 442 then maybe. It's not that I don't think Scholes is good enough, just we didn't need him. We played 442 we had Lampard and Gerrard. Carrick was there to be defensive midfield. Just happened he eneded up dropping behind Gerrard in the defensive midifeld order. We need at least one back up defensive midfield incase Barry broke down again.

Carrick is no more a defensive midfielder than Scholes is though.

Nor does Scholes play the Lampard role anymore, he plays the deep seated playmaker role á la Pirlo, as such we'd have had an option to change formation with him in that role, because whenever Gerrard tried playing long balls he simply put the ball out of play. Now maybe Capello didn't want to change formation and do that, but Carrick would've been just as wasted in the defensive midfield role as Scholes would have, if not more so. Capello clearly wanted Scholes because he was good enough for the squad, what we really needed though was a Hargreaves and we didn't have one, the best we had was an unfit Barry, so did we need Scholes? not really, was he good enough to be in the squad? certainly.

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Razzler

Razzler

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So the U19s lost 3-1 in the semi finals...

Spain scored some cracking goals and looked pretty slick from what I saw, as at full international level. You can see some of these U19s making it to the full Spanish side at some point, not sure about our guys. This group doesn't set my heart racing or anything but I am fairly pleased with a semi final appearance tbh

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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There really is no point playing/taking alot of the big names. With the new season starting straight after, they are going to be far more interested in just not getting injured. Hardly gonna be motivated. Really should just play a B'ish side. Would probably drum up more interest too. But on the other hand we have 2 important qualfiiers next so it is an important game.

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Razzler

Razzler

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I am not one of those "why do we have an international break in March!!" type people, throughout the season there will be international dates, it's a shame if your South American superstar has to fly to Peru but that's the way it is. We do need friendlies they just need to be used in the correct way, you're not gonna debut players in the qualifiers which would be the case if there were no friendlies.

Perhaps if half the league didn't fly around the world on pre-season tours players wouldn't be so tired. That said, I really don't understand why there is a match before the season starts, I am sure this happened last season too. By all means call the squad up, get together, do some training, some talking and then go back if we're not playing a match but I don't see how we can 'turn to' Adam Johnson now and 'give him a go' when he had a go before the World Cup in the build up and was bloody good! What's the difference?

Walcott in this squad you reckon? How come, what's changed since the end of last season and now, his form picked up has it? :D It's silly. This is generally the only international date I have a problem with though and even then I don't see any harm in the squad meeting up if need be for a get together before the new campaign.

If we don't sell enough tickets everyone will **** out about failure and the World Cup and loss of faith but it's most likely, you know, the season hasn't really got underway yet so no one's in proper football mode yet

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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It's a proepr International window. So nobody can complain. Every country is playing. But because our league starts earlier it really falls at the wrong time. Italy for example still have anothing 2 weeks of pre season after their friendley before their league starts.

To be pedantic, Walcott will be in the squad because the squad wont be 23 man but 26+ :D

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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He'll probably be in the squad. He was in the pre WC 30, and was probably pretty close to going. Had more of a chance then the likes of Huddlestone, Parker, Baines & Darren Bent tbh. So he should be in our 26 man squad.

SWP didn't cover himself in glory at the WC too. Though for some odd reason he was our highest rated midfielder according to the 'Capello Index' :D

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Razzler

Razzler

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No, in no universe was SWP our best anything, he did his usual running into blind alleys. He had one good run when he came on against Algeria (I think) and that's pretty much. That may well still make him our best tbh :D Actually, I think Gerrard received the highest individual rating for the Yank game but maybe SWP was more consistent (it's even funny when you type it as well as say it), basically SWP hardly played and had less time to screw up

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skybluedave

skybluedave

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For me Lampard was our 'best' midfielder all round. But still nothing special. Gerrard could well be bottom considering there was alot expected of him and bar the US game, he was really crap, disapeared in the Germany game. Though Barry could take last place solely on his Germany performance.

Basically a really pointless exercise. The only player who played remotely well out of the whole side was Ashley Cole.

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Rob1981

Rob1981

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Arsenal midfielder Jack Wilshere has been left out of the England Under-21 squad, fuelling speculation he could earn a call-up to the full squad.

Micah Richards, Lee Cattermole, Adam Johnson and Theo Walcott have also been omitted for the U21 friendly against Uzbekistan at Bristol City on Tuesday.

All five could feature against Hungary on Wednesday in England's first match since the 2010 World Cup finals.

Marc Albrighton and Jordan Henderson are among the newcomers to the U21s.

Read into that what you will.

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Razzler

Razzler

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That Albrighton is supposed to be pretty decent, been playing ok in pre-season so hopefully he'll get a few look ins, Henderson looked good last season. Not sure about Richards, he just doesn't seem to get any better but he's ok, not sure about international quality though. You want to like him, want him to be good, maybe he needs first team football somwhere, ditto Nedum Onuoha.

If Johnson and Walcott are in and someone like SWP is out it makes leaving Walcott out of the World Cup very silly imo. I can understand the reasons for dropping him but not in favour of SWP, ffs.

Is it 26 squad, be good for some to join up with the squad and train as not many will get on the pitch. I wonder if Scott Parker will make it or if Cattermole will leap frog him, I like Parker

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ScottT!

ScottT!

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Got my tickets through for Hungary yesterday with a handy little fixture list. As well as the friendlies Rob has mentioned above (although the France game has been confirmed by everyone except our FA!) we have Holland at Wembley next August as well as an away friendly pencilled in for next February (rumoured to be Argentina apparently).

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Razzler

Razzler

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Can Micah Richards even play for the U21s now, he's 22?

It's the 'James Milner' affect, seems like he's been around forever!

I doubt appeasing the media has played any part in Wilshire potentially being called up as they equally love "next Rio Ferdinand/future England captain" Rodwell to.

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Razzler

Razzler

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Got my tickets through for Hungary yesterday with a handy little fixture list. As well as the friendlies Rob has mentioned above (although the France game has been confirmed by everyone except our FA!) we have Holland at Wembley next August as well as an away friendly pencilled in for next February (rumoured to be Argentina apparently).

Argentina away ... yay! I await Managers moaning ...

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Rob1981

Rob1981

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Yeah, the Argentina game is nailed on for 9 Feb 2011... just not sure where it will be. Mainland Europe somewhere, technically an Argentina "home" game so their choice.

In return, apparently they're coming to Wembley in 2013 for the FA's 150th anniversary celebrations

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pouncer

pouncer

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So do I but the timing of this is ridiculous, so I hope none/very few of our players are called up.

Absolutely, it seems pretty ludicrous for the FA to have organised a game now. I can almost understand it being sensible for the Spanish and Italian FAs who have a little while longer to prepare for the beginning of their season, but surely the FA could have let this one go on behalf of domestic football? I think the only time I've ever agreed with Redknapp was when he had his rant about this the other day. Do we get another friendly before the Euro 2012 campaign begins?

Oh, and also it may or may not be notable that both Jack Wilshere and Kieran Gibbs weren't called up to the U21s. That leaves a fair possibility that they both may be involved with the England squad, we'll see.

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McMaster#28

McMaster#28

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Surely that's a good reflection on the state of the English national game? A FIFA approved date in which nearley all other countries are having friendlies, but the English view is that it's pointless and gets in the way of the Premier League.

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pouncer

pouncer

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Maybe, although I think we're one of the only countries who start their season the weekend following this date. Possibly a few other countries in Europe may start their season on the same weekend as the Premier League, but the vast majority would be nigh on unaffected. Obviously you can't campaign for FIFA to change the date, but maybe it would be sensible to leave this slot open. I guess it's the old 'Club vs Country' argument again spiced up with the fact the FA need to pay off Wembley.

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