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England vs Hungary August Your Starting 11,


Jayoel

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You bloody Tit, Foster won't budge VDS because he has signed for Birmingham. I justify Welbeck on potential and I think this season will be his first full season out on loan in the premiership. I also expect Naughton to start to move towards the Spurs lineup. Right back is a concerning area, I wouldn't want to rely on Johnson for too much longer.

Whooops, totally forgot about Foster. Sorry about that. Even so, Hart is younger and a lot more talented, has a nice confidence about him that you need as a keeper. Much better prospect than Foster for me.

I agree that I don't want Johnson, he's useless, but we really have no one else? Naughton's not even close to our team, he has to get ahead of Corluka and Kaboul, good luck to him. But whats Wellbeck done? Nothing. When he has done something worthy in the premiership, then you can start mentioning his name.

Its all ifs and buts. IF Wellbeck and Naughton and Foster all performed well in the league and you mentioned them, I wouldn't question you.

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welbeck will never play for england

Why not? You come across as a really dismissive type. He has lots of potential and for 19 has already done a fair bit. Whether he makes it at Man Utd will be irrelevant because if he moves then he will do well elsewhere in the Premiership.

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Germany introduced 6 members of their U21 squad into their WC squad, some were due to injuries. Ozil the clear stand out in terms of talent. Muller too but he wasn't in the U21's. They are a good combination between experience (Lahm, Klose, Schweinsteiger, Friedrich etc). That's what we should be trying to do not stick in a bunch of teens ffs. Some players have failed and need to moved on but we still have some talented players who should stick around and continue to be involved.

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Exactly, people just go to extremes. I would still keep someone like Lampard involved, even if he stops becoming a guaranteed starter.

Might as well just start playing the U17 team that won the Euro's. They'll make it eventually.

By the time 2012 comes around not one of the players I mentioned will be teenagers and the more experienced ones such as Rooney, Lennon and Milner will be edging closer to their peaks. If we don't get young players in sooner rather than later then we will have either a very old team or a very inexperienced team in a few years.

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Can't you understand what I'm saying? I as much as you do, hope players like Naughton and Wellbeck can be considered good enough for England. But it could destroy them if you throw them into the international scene. If they haven't played regular Premiership or european football, how can they be ready for international football. The standard will be fairly similar to european football, but the pressure will be immense. And then not having the experiences of top flight football could destroy them.

I am say not now, thats all. It's not exactly rocket science is it?

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I can't even think of any examples of players being chucked into the England team without substantial top flight experiences, because no one is that stupid. Only Walcott was, but despite having Rooney/Owen unfit, one other striker, he didn't even get a minute. So even Sven must have realised the mistake he made.

You need at least a season. The only exception is Michael Owen, who made his debut at around February during his first season, but that made sense.

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I do get what you are saying but we need to get these players in somehow, some sort of ruling to actually encourage clubs to bring through youngsters is what is really needed but thats a different discussion. I think you have not really embraced the plan which I was trying to encourage and have gone over the top to not include two players.

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Over the top? Common sense more like. No I'd never embrace a plan of putting in youngsters when they are undercooked.

Hopefully the new UEFA ruling will encourage a few more youngsters. We have less than 40% of the players English in the PL, which does need addressing. I said it before, can't remember which thread, but I remember the 90's U21 teams being full of Premiership regulars.

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There's no point playing a similar sort of team to what we put out in the WC. We've seen enough of the 'golden generation' - now it's time to move on. I can understand how John Terry or Emile Heskey may have a role during the Qualification stage of Euro 2012, but in this friendly with Hungary we've got to really look at our other options. Forget giving little Steven Warnock ten minutes off the bench. Start him. That's the only way we'll learn. Personally, I'd go for something like this:

Joe HART

Glen JOHNSON

Phil JAGIELKA

Ledley KING (I dream of Woodgate one day recovering, not sure it'll happen mind)

Leighton BAINES

Jack RODWELL

Steven GERRARD ©

Scott PARKER

James MILNER

Wayne ROONEY

Adam JOHNSON

Something like that anyway. As I said, this is my line-up for the Hungary game and not the Qualifiers themselves - during the Qualifiers, I would certainly include a few more experienced players. Chuck the likes of Gibbs, Agbonlahor, Walcott, Milner, Cattermole, Defoe, Lennon, Shawcross et al in the squad too, and do some Sven-esque substitutions at half time.

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Ledley is done at international level, he shouldn't have gone in the first place as his body just isn't upto it. Dawson was the best English Centre back last season yet you want to leave him out. Baffling.

As for Naughton, he really needs to go on loan to a Premier League club as he's got very little chance of getting any playing time with us at the moment.

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Ledley is done at international level, he shouldn't have gone in the first place as his body just isn't upto it. Dawson was the best English Centre back last season yet you want to leave him out. Baffling.

As for Naughton, he really needs to go on loan to a Premier League club as he's got very little chance of getting any playing time with us at the moment.

I don't want to leave Dawson out, I just forgot about him. Bloody hell Brett I'm not Capello ffs :D That's a shame about King if so, as well.

Yeah King is finished. We'd be lucky to get 25 games from him, no way he can play international football now.

Pouncer- I disagree with Baines/Jagielka, would still stick with Terry/Cole- they are both young enough and the other two will never be as good. Quite like the rest of your team.

True (I would certainly expect Terry & Cole to continue playing during the Qualifiers), although I think it would be worth 'blooding' them, so to speak, against Hungary because it's highly likely that they will both be involved in international football with England at some point - even if they are behind Terry and Cole when fit.

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Don't see how anyone can talk about starting afresh and justify having Gerrard starting in central midfield. If there is anyone who perfectly encapsulates the failings of English football at international level, it is Gerrard.

Why on earth anyone would leave out Ashley Cole? Not exactly on death's door is he? And playing the best football of his career probably too. Could easily play at the next World Cup and I'd be stunned frankly if we had anyone approaching his ability by then.

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Don't see how anyone can talk about starting afresh and justify having Gerrard starting in central midfield. If there is anyone who perfectly encapsulates the failings of English football at international level, it is Gerrard.

Why on earth anyone would leave out Ashley Cole? Not exactly on death's door is he? And playing the best football of his career probably too. Could easily play at the next World Cup and I'd be stunned frankly if we had anyone approaching his ability by then.

Was about to post something along these lines but refreshed before I wrote it.

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The team i would like to see going into the Euros and kick on to the world cup would be:

GK: Hart

DL: Ashley Cole

DC: Dawson

DC: Rio

DR: Johnson

DM: Barry

ML: Adam Johnson

MR: Lennon

AM: Lampard

ST: Rooney

ST: Bent/Crouch

with terry, gerrard and james kept on as squad members and young players like Wilshere, Walcott, Milner, Gibbs, Ashley Young, Shawcross and the like given plenty of chances

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For me our core players should still be Terry, Ashley Cole, Gerrard and Rooney. Lampard no 1 reserve for Gerrard. We have to now realise we can only select one of them, Gerrard gets the nod for being younger and having a decent relationship with Rooney. Terry was poor against Germany but he's still our best defender imo.

Hart

Johnson

Jagielka/Dawson

Terry

Cole

Carrick/Huddlestone

Cattermole

Lennon/Milner

Johnson/Joe Cole

Gerrard

Rooney

We really need a proper holding midfielder. Hargreaves could do a job there. But hardly one for the future. Plus we aren't sure about his injuries.

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I agree, providing he gets a good role in the team as well. I'd be quite happy with him at Arsenal though, but I'm not sure how much football we'd give him. I suppose his role with England depends almost entirely on where he ends up on the club scene.

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Joe Hart

Glen Johnson

Michael Dawson

Jack Rodwell (ball playing centre-back)

Ashley Cole

Tom Huddlestone as DM

Aaron Lennon

Joe Cole/James Milner behind front two

Adam Johnson

Wayne Rooney

Jermain Defoe/Peter Crouch

Shawcross, Wilshere to be blooded, and Rio or Terry, Gerrard or Lampard to provide experience balance against 'bigger' teams.

Above all else, pick players based on form, not reputation.

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Wouldn't blood Wilshere yet, I don't think he's anywhere near ready. He's only played half a season in and out of the team at Bolton - he's been little more than a reserve at Arsenal, give or take a few games. I'd give Wilshere another season at least yet, it's all too easy to damage a young player's career by chucking them into the England squad at an early age.

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Wouldn't blood Wilshere yet, I don't think he's anywhere near ready. He's only played half a season in and out of the team at Bolton - he's been little more than a reserve at Arsenal, give or take a few games. I'd give Wilshere another season at least yet, it's all too easy to damage a young player's career by chucking them into the England squad at an early age.

Exactly, can already picture all the idiots claiming he's not good enough and making him the scapregoat etc after a couple of quiet games where it might not work for him. I don't want him anywhere near the England side until he's more established with us.

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yeah, think from what I've seen from Rodwell he's more of an attack minded midfielder who likes to get forward a bit.

Regarding Wilshere, there would be very little point in putting him in the first team for England. We don't want him to go down the Walcott route of total waste (although I'd probably argue that Walcott's never had it in him to become a decent player). Give him another couple of years in the under 21s and maybe a full season of first team experience in a lower premier league team (ie Wolves, Newcastle, Wigan, West Brom etc.).

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I would like to see,

Hart

Johnson

Cole

Cahill

Terry

Cattermole

Huddlestone/Rodwell

Johnson

Wilshere

Lennon

Rooney

This isn't the team I'd use for qualifiers, just this one off friendly. Gives them a taste of the senior squad and Capello time to look at a couple of them in closer detail.

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think we need a Mesut Ozil type player over anything. We're just not concentrating on producing them at youth level. Everything is about hard work and fitness nowadays

Nothing like a massive generalisation to pass the time now is there?

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The only guy we have who could be anywhere near that kind of player at the moment is Joe Cole, but how long is it since he played there? It was interesting to note though that he wants to go to a club which will play him in the centre.

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Joe Cole's nothing like that any more. Just a frenetic haphazard player who lacks composure. Might have been trying too hard to make something happen when he got to play but he's certainly nothing like he may have once been.

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but Rooney is an incredible goalscorer upfront on his own and I'd rather see him there. We're just not brining anyone through who can act as a quick playmaker. Closest thing we can have is (in a few years):

Lennon--(holding midfielder)--Milner or a Lampard-esque player--A.Johnson
                       Wilshere
                        Rooney

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Wilshire is hopefully gonna play a full season with a Bolton, just what he needs, Premier League side, not gonna have the ball all the time and play a good 30 games or something for them.

Welbeck has shown nothing to demonstrate he can play for England.

German U21 is unique and not typical of U21 sides all going into the full side. England had a good crop of mostly United players and Portugal have done likewise but generally speaking you'd be hard pressed to have so many flow into the full team. Germany may not have this again for a decade themselves, the odd player here and there.

The set out to focus on youth though and they did it at different age group so reaping what they sowed.

We need to not pidgeon hole Rodwell too, all this talk about him being a defensive midfielder and he'll drop back to centre back. This is based on what, his size. See, we're at it again. He looks more attacking to me atm, he's still young-ish, let's see how he continues to develop and not force this centre back as maybe he'll feel more comfortable in midfield and we seem to be putting him back there cause he's big and ok with the ball at his feet (the NEW Ferdinand!).

We shouldn't be doing this, for years he's been talked about as a future centre back even 2 years ago cause of his 'reading of the game' but maybe he won't be a centre back at all

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Hopefully but we shouldn't panic if he doesn't end up a holding midfielder or the next Rio Ferdinand which is all you here about him when he's discussed. People are already putting him in their teams in these types of threads as centre back, Moyes himself always mentions it or has mentioned it in the past. I say let's see how things go before writing his future for him, he may end a great attacking midfielder for all we know

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Michael Johnson is back in training and looking slim and fit, just hope he can rebuild his career because i'm convinced if he had 2 years of development rather than 2 years of injuries he'd already be in the England team

He's the most complete footballer i've seen come out of our academy before his injuries. He'd need to go out on loan though

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Hopefully but we shouldn't panic if he doesn't end up a holding midfielder or the next Rio Ferdinand which is all you here about him when he's discussed. People are already putting him in their teams in these types of threads as centre back, Moyes himself always mentions it or has mentioned it in the past. I say let's see how things go before writing his future for him, he may end a great attacking midfielder for all we know

It's possibly because Moyes, a central defender, knows what attributes are needed to be a top drawer central defender and sees them in Rodwell.

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